Guest guest Posted October 26, 2000 Report Share Posted October 26, 2000 Hi All Somebody found a gem of a quote in I think the BB abt how after being exposed to AA ppl were unable to drink moderately again. I cant find it and I would like to fwd it to to APA Div50. Can the original poster or another find it for me? Tx, P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2000 Report Share Posted October 26, 2000 Pete, I think it was from the 12 and 12, p23.-24 " Alcoholics who still had their health, their families, their jobs and even two cars in the garage, began to recognize their alcoholism....they were joined by young people who were scarcely more than potential alcoholics.. ....It was then discovered that when one alcoholic had planted in the mind of another the true nature of his malady, that person could never be the same again. Following every spree, he would say to himself, " Maybe those AA's were right... " After a few such experiences, often years before the onset of extreme difficulties, he would return to us convinced. He had hit bottom as truly as any of us. " Scarcely more than potential alcoholics--encounter AA--idea of alcoholism planted--no extreme difficulties--return to AA > Hi All > > Somebody found a gem of a quote in I think the BB abt how after being > exposed to AA ppl were unable to drink moderately again. I cant find > it and I would like to fwd it to to APA Div50. Can the original poster > or another find it for me? > > Tx, > P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2000 Report Share Posted October 28, 2000 Whatever he said, I'd like to know more about this idea - that AA causes out of control drinking... AA creating alcoholism Hi AllSomebody found a gem of a quote in I think the BB abt how after being exposed to AA ppl were unable to drink moderately again. I cant find it and I would like to fwd it to to APA Div50. Can the original poster or another find it for me?Tx,P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2000 Report Share Posted October 28, 2000 There is a phenomenon in addiction physiology known as reinstatement. The whole alcohol dependence syndrome re-emerges in a very short time after relapse (in some people) following months or years of abstinence. It's as if there is an irreversible "addiction memory" laid down in the brain. It's not well understood by science, but appears to be related to the cellular adaptation that occurs in very alcohol dependent people. ( See: Griffith, E., et. al, Treatment of Drinking Problems, 3rd ed. (1997), London:Cambridge Press.) The big book may have something in it which alludes to the behavior of "picking up where you left off" and relates it as the "allergy" of alcoholics to ETOH. It's doubtful that being exposed to AA, or any other treatment, makes one unable to drink moderately again. More likely, AA subsumed the reinstatement phenomenon into its mythology and doctrine without really knowing what it was describing (nobody knew back then). There were no even moderately effective treatments before AA (no claims as to the effectiveness of AA expressed nor implied) to allow reinstatement to be observed in a large population, somebody, somewhere must have concluded that AA "causes" reinstatement. Just my previously alcohol-soaked brain cells firing randomly..... What's APA Div50? AA creating alcoholism Hi AllSomebody found a gem of a quote in I think the BB abt how after being exposed to AA ppl were unable to drink moderately again. I cant find it and I would like to fwd it to to APA Div50. Can the original poster or another find it for me?Tx,P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2000 Report Share Posted October 28, 2000 At 04:42 AM 10/28/00 -0400, you wrote: >Whatever he said, I'd like to know more about this idea - that AA causes >out of control drinking... " Causes " may be a bit harsh, but IMO it encourages out-of-control drinking by pushing the idea of an incurable permanent disease which somehow makes people unable to control their own behavior. Many people like this idea as a great excuse -- they're excused from normal self-control and even seen as helpless victims. Others reject the idea consciously, but are still affected on some deeper level by the idea that they " have a drinking problem " rather than just drinking too darn much. I think it's pretty well established that semi-problem drinkers often start drinking more after exposure to AA. I don't have any cites handy, but others have posted them. Heck, even ol' Bill himself started drinking a lot more after hearing the " disease " line from Dr. Silkworth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2000 Report Share Posted October 28, 2000 This is a reply to regarding AA creating alcoholism. Your comments struck home with me. For some reason, my somewhat modest alcohol abuse got out of control shortly after my first exposure to AA. For one thing, that's were I was " diagnosed " as alcoholic, and " powerless " over my alcohol consumption. Over the next 5 years, relapses seemed to coincide with my attendence at AA meetings. Hmmmmm. Roy Re: AA creating alcoholism > At 04:42 AM 10/28/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Whatever he said, I'd like to know more about this idea - that AA causes > >out of control drinking... > > > " Causes " may be a bit harsh, but IMO it encourages out-of-control > drinking by pushing the idea of an incurable permanent disease which > somehow makes people unable to control their own behavior. Many > people like this idea as a great excuse -- they're excused from normal > self-control and even seen as helpless victims. Others reject the > idea consciously, but are still affected on some deeper level by > the idea that they " have a drinking problem " rather than just > drinking too darn much. > > I think it's pretty well established that semi-problem drinkers often > start drinking more after exposure to AA. I don't have any cites > handy, but others have posted them. > > Heck, even ol' Bill himself started drinking a lot more > after hearing the " disease " line from Dr. Silkworth. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2000 Report Share Posted October 28, 2000 Greetings Roy. May I suggest taking a look through the archives at egroups? It's fun (well, maybe " interesting " is a more accurate word) for me to go back and see what I wrote about a year ago. A number of people have been here since the group's inception in what, 1997? I've found a real wealth of information in others' experiences here. You are definitely not alone. judith > This is a reply to regarding AA creating alcoholism. > Your comments struck home with me. For some reason, my somewhat modest > alcohol abuse got out of control shortly after my first exposure to AA. For > one thing, that's were I was " diagnosed " as alcoholic, and " powerless " over > my alcohol consumption. Over the next 5 years, relapses seemed to coincide > with my attendence at AA meetings. Hmmmmm. > > Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 dlmooney, When someone shows up on this list without any form of introduction or background and simply launches into a defence of AA that strikes me as pretty strong evidence they are interested in nothing but changing what is said here. I suspect you didnt like what I was fwding from here to the traumatic stress list concerning the iatrogenics of AA and hence decided to come here and put us straight on the matter. This is at least very patronizing imo. The " reinstatement " phenomonon may have some relevance but it is not what it being referred to here; we have been discussing the possibility that binge drinking may *worsen* as a result of exposure to AA beliefs - not reoccur after a period of abstinence. I think your post does indeed suggest that AA is effective, but never mind that. If a group like AA can help ppl overcome drink problems, why cant such a group also worsen them? It's perfectly possible that even on average it is helpful certain of its ideas are danaging or harmful to particular individuals. > The big book may have something in it which alludes to the behavior of " picking up where you left off " and relates it as the " allergy " of alcoholics to ETOH. It's doubtful that being exposed to AA, or any other treatment, makes one unable to drink moderately again. More likely, AA subsumed the reinstatement phenomenon into its mythology and doctrine without really knowing what it was describing (nobody knew back then). There were no even moderately effective treatments before AA (no claims as to the effectiveness of AA expressed nor implied) to allow reinstatement to be observed in a large population, somebody, somewhere must have concluded that AA " causes " reinstatement. > > Just my previously alcohol-soaked brain cells firing randomly..... > > What's APA Div50? > AA creating alcoholism > > > Hi All > > Somebody found a gem of a quote in I think the BB abt how after being > exposed to AA ppl were unable to drink moderately again. I cant find > it and I would like to fwd it to to APA Div50. Can the original poster > or another find it for me? > > Tx, > P. > > > > eGroups Sponsor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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