Re: comments about chit-chat

December 20, 2002

FlyLady is big here. LOL That is how I found out about her.

Jacquie H

comments about chit-chat

Re: FIRE

And I thought it was pretty bad to wake up to a alarm..at

4:30am...that you can not find. It was pretty annoying and woke up

everybody. It turned out to be someone's horn (I live in apartments)

and it took 5..yes 5..police officers to get it to stop...and then

it started again an hour and a half later. Still it scared me...I

thought it was the fire alarm........ Joking..we now call it the

block wake-up alarm...

Amy, I am glad everyone is safe and sound. My thoughts go out to you

and your family!

Re:MY BEST FRIEND

, my newphew was born a month early and weighed 4 lbs. 12 ozs.

In a month he gained his weight and has not stopped yet. No health

problems. Warm wishes to the family and Congrats!

RE: GFCF diet

Cecilia, the flour mix I buy....

http://www.bobsredmill.com

Thanks BJ..that gives me alot of hope for my daughter.

Re: IMPROVEMENTS WITH KIDS

I noticed many of your kids are making many wonderful improvements.

This is so great! Warm Wishes Your Way!

RE: MARRIAGE PROBLEMS

I might be out of line...but..I say fight for your marriage. If your

family and your husband is worth it (I say that because I do not

know everyones problem)....if it is worth it..fight for your family

and marriage. Get up from the computer and make a stand. Go do one

thing nice for your husband. And then tomorrow do two things. It has

to start with you. Do not expect him to notice in just one day...but

over several weeks or months...he will notice. Your husbands are

just as lonely as you..I bet you. Stick together as a team. I think

it would be sad in 50 years to be reading about autism in the early

2000's...how it led to separation of families. Very Sad.

It is hard and I have to be in on the front lines every day. My

family and marriage is imporant to me....worth fighting for. So,

sometimes even if I feel like yelling or fighting...if it is not

imporant..I let it go.

I know everyone is venting.....and might not like what I say...but I

said it ..and I am through!

Please take care of your family and YOURSELF (it starts with you!).

PS: Has anyone tried the FlyLady system? It has helped me find some

balance...me time, couple time, housework time, kid time, and

dealing with a " special " kid. I think it really does start with a

shiny sink. And cutting out the chaos...leaves you time for the

imporant things!

Check it out:

http://www.flylady.net

December 20, 2002

Personally, I HATE flylady. Ok, I understand how a clean sink can help your

outlook and get things going in the right direction. I DO feel better when

my house is picked up, HOWEVER, I can't STAND her telling me it's not time

to be on the computer, or to put my shoes on. I NEVER where shoes in the

house and never will. I HATE shoes. LOL! I also can't stand to throw

things away.

Hehehe, just my 2 cents.

ellen

Re: comments about chit-chat

FlyLady is big here. LOL That is how I found out about her.

Jacquie H

Please take care of your family and YOURSELF (it starts with you!).

PS: Has anyone tried the FlyLady system? It has helped me find some

balance...me time, couple time, housework time, kid time, and

dealing with a " special " kid. I think it really does start with a

shiny sink. And cutting out the chaos...leaves you time for the

imporant things!

Check it out:

http://www.flylady.net

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002

December 20, 2002

LOL! I did flylady for a bit last year and was just thinking about it

the other day. I find she makes me feel too guilty..I can generate

enough of that on my own! I do keep her stuff in mind though when I'm

overwhelmed...just 15 minutes, that's it. Then of course I will work

like crazy for 2 hours. It's just the getting started part that's

hard sometimes. When I followed her program " religously " for a week,

I went nuts...My house was clean but I was doing it every freaking

waking moment! Because of course, children do not know or care about

flylady, so the 15 minute break never happens!

Of course it doesn't really happen now either!

Angie

> Personally, I HATE flylady. Ok, I understand how a clean sink can

help your

> outlook and get things going in the right direction. I DO feel

better when

> my house is picked up, HOWEVER, I can't STAND her telling me it's

not time

> to be on the computer, or to put my shoes on. I NEVER where shoes

in the

> house and never will. I HATE shoes. LOL! I also can't stand to

throw

> things away.

>

> Hehehe, just my 2 cents.

>

> ellen

>

> Re: comments about chit-chat

>

> FlyLady is big here. LOL That is how I found out about her.

> Jacquie H

> Please take care of your family and YOURSELF (it starts with

you!).

>

> PS: Has anyone tried the FlyLady system? It has helped me find

some

> balance...me time, couple time, housework time, kid time, and

> dealing with a " special " kid. I think it really does start with

a

> shiny sink. And cutting out the chaos...leaves you time for the

> imporant things!

> Check it out:

> http://www.flylady.net

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002

>

December 20, 2002

hahahahahaha!!!!

Jacquie H

Re: comments about chit-chat

FlyLady is big here. LOL That is how I found out about her.

Jacquie H

Please take care of your family and YOURSELF (it starts with you!).

PS: Has anyone tried the FlyLady system? It has helped me find some

balance...me time, couple time, housework time, kid time, and

dealing with a " special " kid. I think it really does start with a

shiny sink. And cutting out the chaos...leaves you time for the

imporant things!

Check it out:

http://www.flylady.net

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002

December 20, 2002

> it would be sad in 50 years to be reading about autism in the early

> 2000's...how it led to separation of families. Very Sad.

the current statistics are 85% of marriages split up.

> I know everyone is venting.....and might not like what I say...but I

> said it ..and I am through!

I understand that...but with all due respect...how old are your kids again?

I am one who was part of the crappy marriage thread. My dh and I have been

doing this now for 6 and a half years, and we've had some really rough

patches along this road - but just because I vent about our marriage

sometimes doesn't mean that we are anywhere near giving up. We don't need

to 'fight' for our marriage. We are just facing the same extraordinary

challenges any parents of autism face, and sometimes it helps to vent about

it to others. We have been together for 14 years, and he is not only my

husband but my best friend as well. But like any marriage, sometimes I feel

lonely and isolated and frustrated and like I'm living with a stranger --

but show me a marriage that hasn't been through such a phase, and I'll show

you a marriage that has yet to be tested and proven strong.

Just because we vent about our children, no one thinks we're going to give

them up for adoption -- so why should venting about our husband mean that

we're going to leave him?

Jacquie

December 20, 2002

Now, I did not say I followed it to a " T. " I use what fits for my

lifestyle...and delete the rest!

I agreed with you about the shoes.....never wearing them......until

a toy got dropped on my foot! Now when it is a busy day I wear my

shoes...other days I go with out.

> Personally, I HATE flylady. Ok, I understand how a clean sink can

help your

> outlook and get things going in the right direction. I DO feel

better when

> my house is picked up, HOWEVER, I can't STAND her telling me it's

not time

> to be on the computer, or to put my shoes on. I NEVER where shoes

in the

> house and never will. I HATE shoes. LOL! I also can't stand to

throw

> things away.

>

> Hehehe, just my 2 cents.

>

> ellen

>

> Re: comments about chit-chat

>

> FlyLady is big here. LOL That is how I found out about her.

> Jacquie H

> Please take care of your family and YOURSELF (it starts with

you!).

>

> PS: Has anyone tried the FlyLady system? It has helped me find

some

> balance...me time, couple time, housework time, kid time, and

> dealing with a " special " kid. I think it really does start

with a

> shiny sink. And cutting out the chaos...leaves you time for the

> imporant things!

> Check it out:

> http://www.flylady.net

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002

>

December 20, 2002

Now, I did not say I followed it to a " T. " I use what fits for my

lifestyle...and delete the rest!

I agreed with you about the shoes.....never wearing them......until

a toy got dropped on my foot! Now when it is a busy day I wear my

shoes...other days I go with out.

> Personally, I HATE flylady. Ok, I understand how a clean sink can

help your

> outlook and get things going in the right direction. I DO feel

better when

> my house is picked up, HOWEVER, I can't STAND her telling me it's

not time

> to be on the computer, or to put my shoes on. I NEVER where shoes

in the

> house and never will. I HATE shoes. LOL! I also can't stand to

throw

> things away.

>

> Hehehe, just my 2 cents.

>

> ellen

>

> Re: comments about chit-chat

>

> FlyLady is big here. LOL That is how I found out about her.

> Jacquie H

> Please take care of your family and YOURSELF (it starts with

you!).

>

> PS: Has anyone tried the FlyLady system? It has helped me find

some

> balance...me time, couple time, housework time, kid time, and

> dealing with a " special " kid. I think it really does start

with a

> shiny sink. And cutting out the chaos...leaves you time for the

> imporant things!

> Check it out:

> http://www.flylady.net

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002

>

December 20, 2002

> the current statistics are 85% of marriages split up.

That is really sad. Just too high!

>

> I understand that...but with all due respect...how old are your

kids again?

My children are 19 months and 3 years old.

In my opinion (and yours might be different...and that is OK) ages

of children have nothing to do with this topic. We are all going

through different stages, different lifestyles, good times and bad.

and we've had some really rough

> patches along this road - but just because I vent about our

marriage

> sometimes doesn't mean that we are anywhere near giving up.

And I am not trying to discredit or make your rough roads seem small.

But like any marriage, sometimes I feel

> lonely and isolated and frustrated and like I'm living with a

stranger --

In my opinion ( and again yours might be different) I do not believe

you should feel lonely in your marriage. I believe you should feel

like your spouse is right there through thick and thin......working

as a team. You can decide when you wake up everyday if you are going

to be present in your marriage today or not.

> but show me a marriage that hasn't been through such a phase, and

I'll show

> you a marriage that has yet to be tested and proven strong.

I agree, we our all growing, changing and our marriages get

tested...and tested...and tested again.

>

> Just because we vent about our children, no one thinks we're going

to give

> them up for adoption -- so why should venting about our husband

mean that

> we're going to leave him?

I believe when you start getting negative...you start down a road

that can be hard to get off of....you have to stay postive...to keep

a strong marriage. Also the children pick up your negative feelings

(spoken from a child of divorce). It would be hard to compare kids

(adoption) to husbands (divorce)...I do not believe that is on the

same page of music.

In my opinion, your marriage should come before your children.

Children will come and go out of your life (even with autism and its

different stages). Good and bad things will come in and out of your

life. But in the end you should still be standing by your loved one.

>

In the end, I respect everybodys opinions, feelings and ideas. And

encourage everybody to have their say. I believe we can all learn

from each other.

Take Care,

December 20, 2002

> Now, I did not say I followed it to a " T. " I use what fits for my

> lifestyle...and delete the rest!

> I agreed with you about the shoes.....never wearing them......until

> a toy got dropped on my foot! Now when it is a busy day I wear my

> shoes...other days I go with out.

I have been a barefoot person for years and I just hate shoes.

But one day I was reading Flylady's messages and she was complaining about

people who didn't wear their shoes. I was thinking how silly she was until

she said something like, " Fine, if you don't believe me look at your black

and cracked feet.... " I did. They were black and I had these huge cracks

in my heels that would get so painful sometimes that it hurt me to walk.

Now I wear the shoes and my feet are not black, or cracked and it does not

hurt me to walk.

However, I do only as much Flylady as works for me (she tells you to do

that!) and I delete what doesn't work for me.

But I was terribly disorganized before I found Flylady and now things are

much much better.

She works for me.

Salli

December 20, 2002

,

I agree with you that whenever possible, a marriage should be worked at,

tough times worked through, rather than giving up and walking away. I feel

very strongly that a father and a mother in the home are extremely important

for the children.

I know that it is not always possible. It takes two people to make a

marriage. It only takes one to make a divorce. I try very hard not to be

judgemental toward people who are divorced; you obviously thought that was

the best thing for you and your children, and I have to respect that choice.

I do not know what your situation was and I have no right to second-guess

your decision.

And that is besides the issue of abuse. I would never tell anyone to stay

in a situation where they were not safe.

> > I understand that...but with all due respect...how old are your

> kids again?

>

> My children are 19 months and 3 years old.

> In my opinion (and yours might be different...and that is OK) ages

> of children have nothing to do with this topic. We are all going

> through different stages, different lifestyles, good times and bad.

I think age of the children does make a difference. The older the children,

the more you've been through, the more different issues you have faced

together. Raising a 3 year old together is very different from raising a 6,

10, 15 year old. We ARE all going through different stages, but when you've

been raising a child together for a longer period of time, you've been

through a lot more of those stages.

There are issues that parents of older children here face that I have no way

to relate to. I must conclude that they are dealing with issues in their

marriages that I also have no way to relate to, because Matt and I are not

trying to solve those kinds of problems or make those kinds of decisions

together.

> In my opinion ( and again yours might be different) I do not believe

> you should feel lonely in your marriage. I believe you should feel

> like your spouse is right there through thick and thin......working

> as a team. You can decide when you wake up everyday if you are going

> to be present in your marriage today or not.

Again, I must respectfully disagree. I believe it is normal to go through

phases of feeling closer to someone and farther away from someone.

Sometimes it's when I'm working hardest at my marriage that I feel farthest

away and most lonely.

But those feelings are entirely different from whether or not I feel Matt is

working with me, sticking with me through anything. When we have so much

stress and are working so hard together to solve some problem -- that is

usually when I feel the most lonely for him, because we don't have the time

or energy to just sit and talk and be together. Everything has to go toward

solving that immediate crisis. I call it " survival mode. "

> I believe when you start getting negative...you start down a road

> that can be hard to get off of....you have to stay postive...to keep

> a strong marriage. Also the children pick up your negative feelings

> (spoken from a child of divorce). It would be hard to compare kids

> (adoption) to husbands (divorce)...I do not believe that is on the

> same page of music.

If I DIDN'T vent about my children - and my husband - I would explode at

them. I have to let those feelings out somehow. If I can shout out a big

vent about everything that's bothering me, then I can move on. I let those

feelings out and forget about them. I can stop thinking emotionally and

start working on the problems.

I can't just turn those negative emotions off. But when I release them

here, I can go back to my family and be positive with them.

Of course you can carry this too far, and start looking for things to

complain about, or start harping at the person over every little thing.

> In my opinion, your marriage should come before your children.

I agree.

I find it difficult to put into practice though. I tend to take my marriage

for granted. Of COURSE Matt's going to be there for me. But won't

get what he needs unless I put on my armor and go to war.

This is something I need to work on. Couple time and me time, like you

said, are important; but I'm not getting any and haven't been for quite some

time. Thanks for the reminder.

-Sara.

December 20, 2002

> I might be out of line...but..I say fight for your marriage.

Well, I am an orthodox, practicing Catholic. I HATE divorce. But

you cannot live with a man who settles arguments by hitting you. We

have been separated for three and a half years after he threw a

bottle into my face and I had him arrested, and I tried counseling

and everything else. But he had no awareness that his actions were a

problem, and so I had to give up.

If your

> family and your husband is worth it

He isn't!

(I say that because I do not

> know everyones problem)....if it is worth it..fight for your family

> and marriage. Get up from the computer and make a stand. Go do one

> thing nice for your husband.

I did this endlessly. He never noticed. He only saw bad stuff.

And then tomorrow do two things. It has

> to start with you. Do not expect him to notice in just one

day...but

> over several weeks or months...he will notice.

Ha, ha, he did not notice in thirteen years time.

Your husbands are

> just as lonely as you..I bet you.

He was lonely...with good reason. He is not a very nice person and

he doesn't really like anybody.

Stick together as a team. I think

> it would be sad in 50 years to be reading about autism in the early

> 2000's...how it led to separation of families. Very Sad.

In our case, because he would not recognize Putter's autism at the

time, it exacerbated the serious flaws already present.

>

> It is hard and I have to be in on the front lines every day. My

> family and marriage is imporant to me....worth fighting for.

Yes, well, that is why I put up with abusive treatment. I was NOT

going to be divorced.

So,

> sometimes even if I feel like yelling or fighting...if it is not

> imporant..I let it go.

Mmm-hmm. Did that a LOT. Of course, if I yelled or fought I was

likely to get slapped in the face which did reduce my incentive to

argue. By the end, my kids used to cheer when he left the house to

go to work...

>

> I know everyone is venting.....and might not like what I say...but

I

> said it ..and I am through!

>

> Please take care of your family and YOURSELF (it starts with you!).

, I think you know that this does not work for everyone. Sigh.

I wish it did. I sure did try hard enough, hard to the point of

foolishness.

But I wish everyone more luck than I had.

Salli

December 20, 2002

>It would be hard to compare kids

> (adoption) to husbands (divorce)...I do not believe that is on the

> same page of music.

I do. I am committed to both of them for life.

As for being negative...I grew up in a home where my mother was of the

generation taught to 'make the best of it' and never allow negative things

to arise in her marriage, to always be the one giving, giving, giving...

And now, at 66 years old with no options left but to stay in the marriage,

she is trapped in a marriage founded on years of buried resentment and

anger. My parents live constantly on a knife-edge of tension and ill-will,

and now they have no way of moving past that, as they've spent over 45 years

living a lie.

I swore that would not be my life. When something negative comes up, I

confront it. If we have a problem, I pick it to pieces. If I don't like

the way something is going, I tell him. We argue, we fight, we have

'serious discussions'...and we are HAPPY together. My mother constantly

marvels at how volatile things get around here - but she is glad to see me

in a marriage of equal footing, and not subjugating myself to the role of

'yes man'.

He is not perfect. I am not perfect. We have made compromises to make each

other happy. But we'd never have known what to compromise on if we hadn't

vented and poured it all out to be looked at and thought about and acted on.

Each marriage works with a different dynamic. Each couple needs to find the

path that they can follow together while still remaining true to themselves.

As for waking up and deciding whether I'll be present in my marriage or

not...that's not a decision I *ever* need to make. I couldn't help feeling

affronted when I read that line. I am NOT sitting and passively allowing

anything to happen in my relationship, not EVER. Everything I do, I do to

the fullest extent I can take it. When I feel isolated and alone -- and I

do -- I make the effort to reconnect. I TELL him how I'm feeling. I am not

just pouring it out to the list and saying nothing to him.

And in the end, none of the conventional wisdom on marriage or relationships

or whatever, none of the good advice given in books or on television or by

knowledgable therapists, applies to us. I am crazy. Literally and

clinically insane. I have a mood disorder that upheaves my life from moment

to moment -- and so I live in the moment. My husband lives there with me.

We live the hell out of the good times and cling on for dear life during the

bad times, and we are grateful for every moment we get. the fact that he

has stood by me and we have built a life together since the onset of the

disease five years ago is all the proof I need that we can survive anything.

So if I want to vent a little, and bitch a little, I do so knowing that our

relationship can stand a little grumbling. After all, a little grumbling is

the least of our worries.

Jacquie

December 20, 2002

First, I would like to say that I would not encourage anyone to stay

in a marriage. How sad to feel like you are " stuck " in a marriage. I

do not believe at any age you have to stay in a marriage...60 years

old ..is not to old. It is sad that your parents feel like that.

About the rest of our conversation I have nothing else to say. I

have said my thoughts....although I will keep listening if you have

other things to say.

Again, I restate that we can all learn from each other. And

encourage everybody to state their opinion.

I would rather not bitch, I would rather give suggestions, so at

this time I am moving on to the other topic: Couple Time/ Me Time. I

would like to hear how everybody deals with this issue...and yes, I

can relate to... " What time? " ....

Take Care,

>

> >It would be hard to compare kids

> > (adoption) to husbands (divorce)...I do not believe that is on

the

> > same page of music.

>

> I do. I am committed to both of them for life.

>

> As for being negative...I grew up in a home where my mother was of

the

> generation taught to 'make the best of it' and never allow

negative things

> to arise in her marriage, to always be the one giving, giving,

giving...

> And now, at 66 years old with no options left but to stay in the

marriage,

> she is trapped in a marriage founded on years of buried resentment

and

> anger. My parents live constantly on a knife-edge of tension and

ill-will,

> and now they have no way of moving past that, as they've spent

over 45 years

> living a lie.

>

> I swore that would not be my life. When something negative comes

up, I

> confront it. If we have a problem, I pick it to pieces. If I

don't like

> the way something is going, I tell him. We argue, we fight, we

have

> 'serious discussions'...and we are HAPPY together. My mother

constantly

> marvels at how volatile things get around here - but she is glad

to see me

> in a marriage of equal footing, and not subjugating myself to the

role of

> 'yes man'.

>

> He is not perfect. I am not perfect. We have made compromises to

make each

> other happy. But we'd never have known what to compromise on if

we hadn't

> vented and poured it all out to be looked at and thought about and

acted on.

>

> Each marriage works with a different dynamic. Each couple needs

to find the

> path that they can follow together while still remaining true to

themselves.

>

> As for waking up and deciding whether I'll be present in my

marriage or

> not...that's not a decision I *ever* need to make. I couldn't

help feeling

> affronted when I read that line. I am NOT sitting and passively

allowing

> anything to happen in my relationship, not EVER. Everything I do,

I do to

> the fullest extent I can take it. When I feel isolated and alone -

- and I

> do -- I make the effort to reconnect. I TELL him how I'm

feeling. I am not

> just pouring it out to the list and saying nothing to him.

>

> And in the end, none of the conventional wisdom on marriage or

relationships

> or whatever, none of the good advice given in books or on

television or by

> knowledgable therapists, applies to us. I am crazy. Literally and

> clinically insane. I have a mood disorder that upheaves my life

from moment

> to moment -- and so I live in the moment. My husband lives there

with me.

> We live the hell out of the good times and cling on for dear life

during the

> bad times, and we are grateful for every moment we get. the fact

that he

> has stood by me and we have built a life together since the onset

of the

> disease five years ago is all the proof I need that we can survive

anything.

> So if I want to vent a little, and bitch a little, I do so knowing

that our

> relationship can stand a little grumbling. After all, a little

grumbling is

> the least of our worries.

>

> Jacquie

December 20, 2002

With all due respect please understand this is a general statement and not

directed at anyone,

It's nice to beleive life can be what you make of it. My life and many others is

not all tinkerbells and roses. I might want to think that it is but let me just

say it's not. Neither is anyone elses I'm sure.

I'll tell you if I never found this list I'd have been lost for good. When I

was pregnant , just like everyone I had dreams for that child. My dreams have

now been shattered. Can new dreams grow, of course they can but in the mean time

I'm not being negative coming here and venting about my feelings. Here where

these people understand because no one else does.

My marriage is strong but it has to take a back seat to my children. Why because

when we decided together to have them, together we also decided they come first.

We will have years to be together, we only have a few years to have little kids.

Our struggles will change as the children get older but we will have more time.

I show my love in other ways, his house is clean, he eats and has clean

clothing. He's lucky for that and he darn well knows it. Trust me, let this man

stay with 4 children 2 high needs boys and a sick baby for an hour and he's

kissing my feet for weeks.

Flylady annoys the crap out of me. I have a clean sink, I love my clean sink. I

will admit she feeds into my OCD and I find myself wiping my counter over and

over again and throwing away good items because my house is too cluttered.

Trust me ask my house is not cluttered.

Ughh I don't know but life isn't easy. Some of us have to have a place to vent.

I love my husband but sometimes he annoys me and I need to get it out. Trust me

I also tell him when he annoys me, this prevents fights of stupid stuff. We

talk and are always honest with each other, sometimes that honesty hurts but

it's the love that gets us through.

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December 20, 2002

I try very hard not to be

> judgemental toward people who are divorced; you obviously thought

that was

> the best thing for you and your children, and I have to respect

that choice.

> I do not know what your situation was and I have no right to

second-guess

> your decision.

I do not think I understand your comments. I try not to judge people

who do divorce. I hope I did not hurt feelings....I did not mean to

at any time. Divorce happens. Sometimes it is the best for both

parties and the children. No one should live an unhappy life because

of their marriage. Life goes on.

If you are saying I am divorced...I am not. Perhaps, are you asking

about my marriage?

>

> And that is besides the issue of abuse. I would never tell anyone

to stay

> in a situation where they were not safe.

I totally agree.

>

I call it " survival mode. "

Yes, I think when there is alot of stress.....survival

mode...happens. It is not bad or good......just a time in your life.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. I have learned something...and

hope others have to. I believe education is how we will all get

through these times.

Take Care,

December 20, 2002

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

Please remember that you are a strong woman...you did what you

needed to do...and that is good...you survived!

Take Care Of Yourself (and Children),

> > I might be out of line...but..I say fight for your marriage.

>

> Well, I am an orthodox, practicing Catholic. I HATE divorce. But

> you cannot live with a man who settles arguments by hitting you.

We

> have been separated for three and a half years after he threw a

> bottle into my face and I had him arrested, and I tried counseling

> and everything else. But he had no awareness that his actions

were a

> problem, and so I had to give up.

>

> If your

> > family and your husband is worth it

>

> He isn't!

>

> (I say that because I do not

> > know everyones problem)....if it is worth it..fight for your

family

> > and marriage. Get up from the computer and make a stand. Go do

one

> > thing nice for your husband.

>

> I did this endlessly. He never noticed. He only saw bad stuff.

>

> And then tomorrow do two things. It has

> > to start with you. Do not expect him to notice in just one

> day...but

> > over several weeks or months...he will notice.

>

> Ha, ha, he did not notice in thirteen years time.

>

> Your husbands are

> > just as lonely as you..I bet you.

>

> He was lonely...with good reason. He is not a very nice person

and

> he doesn't really like anybody.

>

> Stick together as a team. I think

> > it would be sad in 50 years to be reading about autism in the

early

> > 2000's...how it led to separation of families. Very Sad.

>

> In our case, because he would not recognize Putter's autism at the

> time, it exacerbated the serious flaws already present.

> >

> > It is hard and I have to be in on the front lines every day. My

> > family and marriage is imporant to me....worth fighting for.

>

> Yes, well, that is why I put up with abusive treatment. I was NOT

> going to be divorced.

>

> So,

> > sometimes even if I feel like yelling or fighting...if it is not

> > imporant..I let it go.

>

> Mmm-hmm. Did that a LOT. Of course, if I yelled or fought I was

> likely to get slapped in the face which did reduce my incentive to

> argue. By the end, my kids used to cheer when he left the house

to

> go to work...

> >

> > I know everyone is venting.....and might not like what I

say...but

> I

> > said it ..and I am through!

> >

> > Please take care of your family and YOURSELF (it starts with

you!).

>

> , I think you know that this does not work for everyone.

Sigh.

> I wish it did. I sure did try hard enough, hard to the point of

> foolishness.

>

> But I wish everyone more luck than I had.

>

> Salli

December 20, 2002

hahahahahah

I don't dress to the shoes, either ellen.

As a matter of fact, I've been trying for YEARS to get my family to TAKE

THEIR DAMN SHOES OFF when they come into the house :-)

As far as throwing things away. I used to be just like you. Now I

haphazardly toss anything that's in my sight.

I still have more paper in this house than any person should have, but my

clutter has been drastically reduced.

(Maybe that's because most of our " stuff " has never been unpacked?)

Penny

RE: comments about chit-chat

Personally, I HATE flylady. Ok, I understand how a clean sink can help your

outlook and get things going in the right direction. I DO feel better when

my house is picked up, HOWEVER, I can't STAND her telling me it's not time

to be on the computer, or to put my shoes on. I NEVER where shoes in the

house and never will. I HATE shoes. LOL! I also can't stand to throw

things away.

Hehehe, just my 2 cents.

ellen

December 20, 2002

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