Re: Whey question

[Guest guest]

Jo,

I believe Elaine has stated in the past that whey contains lactose (which we

need to avoid). I don't have a reference for you on that, though. I just did a

search on her site (www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info) using the word " whey " , and

this is something I came up with. It doesn't declare it officially legal or

illegal..... but gives you Elaine's opinion:

<<Elaine writes:

I am fully aware of how much whey protein is being pushed (hyped). I spent

considerable time a few years ago corresponding by snail mail with the HIV and

AIDS organizations in New York City when they asked me about it. I told them the

little that I know and that is that through the years, the protein in whey has

always been considered to be an inferior protein for human consumption. Years

ago, we knew it contained the more antigenic proteins in the milk and we also

knew that Depts of Agriculture were promoting that whey (a waste product from

cheese manufacture) be turned into a moneymaking commodity.

More recently, whey protein hypers claim that whey protein contains a factor

that has to do with insulin but I have forgotten the details except to read in

literature that these very factors being hyped are, in fact, having a negative

effect on sick people.

So my answer to you is that I do not like it.

Originally from the Long Island listserve.>>

Hope that helps....

Patti, mom to Katera, SCD 15 months

Whey question

This may be one of those " duh " questions, but I can't find anywhere

where it says anything about whey being legal or illegal. Also, is

anyone familiar with Immunocal? It is a bonded cysteine dietary

supplement that is the building block for the body to make its own

glutathione. I had been giving Tony (3 y/o ASD) Kirkman's Reduced L-

Glutathione, but I have found that my suspicions that it gets

destroys by digestive acids have been confirmed (some peoples'

opinion). By giving Immunocal, the body gets the cysteine it needs

to make its OWN glutathione. The ingredient for Immunocal is:

Undenatured Milk Protein Isolate. I know a lot of protein isolates

are just fancy names for MSG, so I looked into it and they claim

there is no MSG in this product. They also say that all of the

casein is removed from it. If anyone has any more info on this I

would sure appreciate it. Thank you.

Jo

[Guest guest]

Hi Joanne,

> This may be one of those " duh " questions, but I can't find

anywhere

> where it says anything about whey being legal or illegal.

Whey contains lactose, so it is illegal.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

,

Unless you are a parent with an ASD child, you do not have a leg to

stand on. You have NO idea where we are coming from and where our

motives lie. It IS possible that we are just trying to help each

other through this. Elaine is not here, but believe me, she knows

everything that goes on. You are right about everyone needing to be

cautious when taking advice on these type of boards, we will be the

first ones to admit that we are not doctors. I personally consult

with a nutritionist to make sure my son is getting everything he

needs. I just feel that you continually minimize the people on this

list, and I for one, do not know why you are still here.

Gia

[Guest guest]

like elaine i think that supplemntation should be minimised, that is

the mnimuim necessary which is not none or even a few.

scd amplifies with the right mineral supplementation particularly

zinc and associated minerals, however it has to be done with

attention to amounts, forms and co factors

i have written this up in 'minerals i take' and copper and zinc in

the index of

http://tinyurl.com/2csa3

all of the supplementaion in those pages above is scd legal

the way 80% of the supplementation i have seen done on the various

autism boards including this is counterproductive or even in some

cases cruel. particularly sustained zinc dosing without bioavailiable

copper and the demyelination this causes

cheese making whey and protien powder are different as is yogurt

dripping and removal of yogurt dripping may help by also removing

bacterial metabolites and the digestive issue with whey may not only

be lactose but one of the peptides may be a more signficant issue.

in your post you quote elaine saying that yougurt dripping contains

an indigestiable protein then per se yogurt dripping has at least one

whey like quality

the dictionary definition of whey gives both the cheese making whey

and also the whey from curdled whey which being an old defintion will

have also meant bacterially fermented whey and i think the amish have

a cheese they make from raw milk left on the counter overnight to

curdle which would generate a bacterially fermented whey

so whey per se is too variable a term to be meaningful without

qualification

useful qualifications might be renett cheese making whey, whey from

a bacterially fermented cheese process and yogurt dripping all of

which have the semantic coherence of being a clearish watery residue

seperated from a protein curdle of milk

i am not recomending whey or saying its scd legal but there are trade

offs in terms of what it is and how it relates to milk and its heavy

provison of growth factors and what little i have read of dr. haas

supports me in the notion that he was somewhat aware of these trade

offs.

what i will say is that recovery will at some point require the

addition of these growth factors and the point of the supplementation

i do is to get to tolerance of whey (i am not talking about yogurt

dripping).

it may well be that dripped goat yogurt retains growth factors to

some or even a large extent.

so the general thrust of what i was posting is that recovery

requires the positive additions of carefully worked through

supplementation and at some point a spectrum of steriodal dairy

growth factors which may already be covered somewhat by goat

yogurt...............

another way of looking at it is that permanent damage has been done

and a great deal of finesse is required to unwind this damage to the

extent possible, you cannot rely on the purely passive approach of

the body rebuilding itself through scd food exclusions though these

exclusions are of tremendous value and even now after quite a while

on scd i am still undertanding the value and reasons for them.

theres more finesse required than simply following rules.

> Hi ,

>

> > i just think the board takes a tone of exclusion when to comes to

> > things that are not cooking and *supplement free* is an aim for

> some

> > but at this point i am certain that supplement free is not

possible.

> >

> > i wish it was but it isn't.

>

> Our policy on this board has always been and *will continue to be*

to

> help people implement SCD as Elaine has laid out in BTVC. Some

> people feel that certain supplements are helping them and that is

> their choice. When these supplements go against SCD we try to let

> them know. As said countless times before the final choice to use

> these supplements is up to the individuals, but if they see any

> problems or are not seeing the progress that they feel they should

to

> at least:

> 1.) inform us that they are on these supplements when they write to

> the list and,

> 2.) consider replacing them with SCD legal supplements or cutting

> them out to see if that helps.

>

> As for whey & whey protein powder I will pass on a few quotes from

> Elaine on the subject:

>

> " The water that accumulates in the 24 hour incubated yogurt is not

> whey.

> > > It is the water of hydrolysis (water formed when the bacterial

> culture

> > > splits lactose into glucose and galactose). Whey, by

definition,

> > contains

> > > lactose and this water that accumulates does not. However, it

may

> contain

> > > some whey protein which does not agree with some people and

that

> is why

> > some

> > > are straining the yogurt after it cools for a few hours and are

> getting

> > rid

> > > of this water. Using a few coffee filters to drain the yogurt

is

> one

> way.

> > > I mention another way in the book under the cream cheese

recipe. "

>

> and

>

> " I am fully aware of how much whey protein is being pushed (hyped).

I

> spent considerable time a few years ago corresponding by snail mail

> with the HIV and AIDS organizations in New York City when they

asked

> me about it. I told them the little that I know and that is that

> through the years, the protein in whey has always been considered

to

> be an inferior protein for human consumption. Years ago, we knew it

> contained the more antigenic proteins in the milk and we also knew

> that Depts of Agriculture were promoting that whey (a waste product

> from cheese manufacture) be turned into a moneymaking commodity.

>

> More recently, whey protein hypers claim that whey protein contains

a

> factor that has to do with insulin but I have forgotten the details

> except to read in literature that these very factors being hyped

are,

> in fact, having a negative effect on sick people.

> So my answer to you is that I do not like it. "

>

> To sum up whey has too much lactose for those doing SCD and whey

> protein, which bothers many of the kids here anyway (that's one

> reason a number of those who try the goat or cow yogurt drip it),

is

> not recommended and certainly not in a processed form.

>

> My *personal experience* with " whey protein " mirrors this. Earlier

> in the diet I was unable to tolerate the yogurt until I dripped it.

>

> Sheila

>

> > this is just by way of a comment but i think a lot of caution

needs

> > to be given to spending too much or indeed any time on

> > boards 'helping others' or doing anything that does not pay off

for

> > your self in extending knowledge or ones thinking.

> >

> > its not possible generally to take research off the web and give

> > useful advice either, information is such a mix of insight and

> > nuttiness that you need personal experience to sift it out.

>

>

>

> I am glad that it has helped you as I am

> > > always glad to hear that people are feeling better, no matter

> what

> > > it is that has helped them.

> > >

> > > Jody

> > > mom to -5 and -7

> > > SCD 19 months