Andy -- you're really scaring me!

[Guest guest]

> I don't want to just rag on doctors or be perceived as doing that

so

> let me explain a bit.

>

> Due to the public electing corrupt politicians and ignoring what

they

> do, assorted bad people got laws passed to hold health care hostage

so

> they could make a lot of money.

[...]

Andy, your observations about arrogant but ignorant doctors, corrupt

politicians, Quackwatch, drug companies, alternative weirdnesses,

etc., tally pretty well with my own conclusions on these subjects. So

reading the following

> Those who break out of this prejudice often do it by rejecting all

> reason and believe in every wierd, wild, far out fantasy there is.

E.

> g. the DAN! chelation protocol, allithiamine, emotional NAET.

strikes a chill in my heart. My dear son, aged 4y10m, is finally

ready for chelation (guts healing or healed now) and is under the

care of a DAN! dr. Do you truly believe I should reject the

suggestions of my dr and undertake chelation using your protocol on

my own? Would it be safer for him? More likely to work? Please, Andy,

or anyone, point me to written info on the specific problems with the

DAN chelation protocol. I need to know *SOON*. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Please take Andy's comments with a grain of salt. There are many excellent

DAN drs. Do your own research then make a decision. Andy is against anything

that is not his protocol.

karen

[Guest guest]

, I have done all Allie's treatments, including chelation,

largely without a doc. I have a good friend who is only using a DAN!

doc for chelation, which differs greatly from Andy's protocol. I see

positive changes every round with Allie. Her son, T, is improving,

but more slowly. In addition, she recently had new labs done which

showed he has 3 times more mercury in his system (since beginning

doc's version of chelation) than prior. This could mean mercury is

getting out, as the mother was exposed AT LEAST 3 times to mercury

(federal laboratory job) during her pregnancy.

So, my thought is, and I'm only one person, that because they are

different *might* not mean it won't work. At the same time, not

every person who tries this board's method of chelation achieve the

results they hope. Many do, however.

My friend is set on wanting to do the DAN! way. I asked her if the

DAN! way doesn't seem to be working to pls consider at least a

couple rounds of chelation with Andy's protocol. I think this is the

route she is taking. Some people are not comfortable without a

doctor to oversee it. I personally do not understand this, but no

one has to have my understanding for it to be okay, I ain't nothing

special, lol.

I felt torn when I began researching this issue, but in the end

prayer and a realization that I had not the money to travel to a

DAN! doc or that for *me* that I neccessarily trusted the DAN!

protocal 100%. In addition, the DAN! stuff is still a work in

progress, as they learn more, hopefully they can make neccessary

changes.

Debi

Do you truly believe I should reject the

> suggestions of my dr and undertake chelation using your protocol

on

> my own? Would it be safer for him? More likely to work? Please,

Andy,

> or anyone, point me to written info on the specific problems with

the

> DAN chelation protocol. I need to know *SOON*. Thanks.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > Those who break out of this prejudice often do it by rejecting all

> > reason and believe in every wierd, wild, far out fantasy there is.

> E.

> > g. the DAN! chelation protocol, allithiamine, emotional NAET.

>

> strikes a chill in my heart. My dear son, aged 4y10m, is finally

> ready for chelation (guts healing or healed now) and is under the

> care of a DAN! dr. Do you truly believe I should reject the

> suggestions of my dr and undertake chelation using your protocol on

> my own? Would it be safer for him? More likely to work? Please, Andy,

> or anyone, point me to written info on the specific problems with the

> DAN chelation protocol. I need to know *SOON*. Thanks.

>

>

Hello ,

I don't have a comprehensive written place to point you at,

but the MAIN differences between Andy's suggestions and the

DAN written protocol are:

1. DAN uses much higher doseages

2. DAN gives doses LESS OFTEN (I believe it is every 8

hours, but they also specifically state that the timing

makes no difference)

3. DAN recommends the use of some sulfury supplement

(I forget if it is NAC or glutathione) for kids in general

(whereas Andy recommends it only for the low-sulfur kids,

determined best by testing)

Those are the BIG differences.

However, all DAN doctors are individual, so each will

use the DAN methods differently.

Also, your doctor may be willing to support your use of

lower dose and more frequent dose timing. The DAN protocol

in general is quite similar to Andy's recommendations---

for example, it uses DMSA and ALA for chelation.

Here are my general opinions about evaluating doctors:

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_find_doctor.html

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

,

I can just be one Mom among many who will tell you to DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH

and do not blindly listen to anyone. The DAN! Doctors are mostly well meaning,

but they are not getting the job done.

If you want to try chelating the way your DAN! Doc told you to, here is what

may happen:

1. Your child will not be getting well as fast as kids on a different (ANDY)

protocols.

2. The high doses and infrequent times will PROBABLY do to your child what

it did to mine--it will make your child sick and you won't want to touch

chelation with a ten foot pole after that.

3. You will have lots of costs from tests and doctor visits and your child

will be no better off.

The purpose of this group is to help each other. I hope others will not make

the initial mistakes I made. I have a 9 year old I am still chelating and

working with! I have learned so many things from others in this group that

helped my child jump forward. My daughter is doing SO much better and she is

nearing a normal situation. If I had not done my research and if I had not

asked

other moms and dads who had been through it, we would still be fighting yeast

and taking DMSA on an 8 hour basis from time to time. My daughter finished 30

Rounds of the Andy protocol and she is doing well.

Andy's advice has been very reliable. However, you need to research for

yourself and discuss with those who have REAL experience with their children. In

the end, we as parents are responsible for getting our kids well. No one else

is going to care as much as we do if our children continue to struggle.

Good luck to you! Let me know if I can help you in any way.

in Salt Lake City

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Debi " <fightingautism@y...>

wrote:

> Some people are not comfortable without a

> doctor to oversee it.

This is the very essence of the *problem*. We have been so programmed

to turn our lives over to " authority " that we keep doing it, even

when it begins to become apparent, obvious even, that it is not in

our best interests to do so. Mercury makes you timid.

My favoite Einstein quote is: " Problems cannot be solved at the same

level of awareness that created them " This describes the situation

pretty well. Also, laws of bureaucratic 'rear-end' covering would

imply that the system that created the problem is not where you

should expect, in a million years, the solution to come from.

I had this belief in the current system in spades. Funny how nearly

becoming a human sacrifice to it can snap you out of it. For me

anyway. Others just accept their fate and circle the drain like they

are told. Including members of my own family.

I saw a bumper sticker recently I'd like to acquire. It was that old

60's era bumper sticker " Question Authority " , only the " Question " had

been stricken and replaced with " Ignore " .

Life is risky, more so now than ever,

Regards,

Beth

[Guest guest]

> Andy, your observations about arrogant but ignorant doctors, corrupt

> politicians, Quackwatch, drug companies, alternative weirdnesses,

> etc., tally pretty well with my own conclusions on these subjects. So

> reading the following

>

> > Those who break out of this prejudice often do it by rejecting all

> > reason and believe in every wierd, wild, far out fantasy there is.

> E.

> > g. the DAN! chelation protocol, allithiamine, emotional NAET.

>

> strikes a chill in my heart. My dear son, aged 4y10m, is finally

> ready for chelation (guts healing or healed now) and is under the

> care of a DAN! dr. Do you truly believe I should reject the

> suggestions of my dr

Only the inappropriate and harmful ones like using the DAN! chelation

protocol, TTFD, glutathione injections, etc. Most of what he says will

make sense, but you have to sort out which advice does and which

doesn't.

> and undertake chelation using your protocol

Yes.

> on my own?

Only if absolutely necessary. Most people do manage to find a doc who

will work with them, and if the doc is really insistent on using a

protocol that is dangerous and harmful you really need to find a

different, more open minded or knowledgeable one anyway.

> Would it be safer for him?

Yes. Much.

> More likely to work?

Yes. Very much so. More rapid improvement, better ultimate results,

far less risk of horrible things on the way, much less side effects and

problems.

> Please, Andy,

> or anyone, point me to written info on the specific problems with the

> DAN chelation protocol.

1. See polls section for outcome of different protocols.

2. The DAN! protocol is developped by people who literally don't know

what a chelating agent is, nor who know the difference between

equilibrium and kinetics, so it is essentially random. The way I

discuss is based on the chemical, pharmacologic, and pharmacokinetic

properties of the substances as determined in humans and put into the

standard formulae used to decide how often to give them that are found

in many standard mainstream medical textbooks. These results were then

validated by the good outcomes of large numbers of people who did it

that way.

3. The best results DAN! got was early on when they WERE using " my "

protocol, before they decided to change it without discussing what was

important beforehand. This is readily verifiable on different websites

and in this lists archives by looking at what Amy Holmes was saying

before and after the change.

You can find discussion on this in the " andy index " too. .. .

> I need to know *SOON*. Thanks.

>

>