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thats what i was thinking too.

> > I look up to Hitler and Manson. I am thinking about

> writing Charlie. I just cursed 5 people today and I promised

Lucifer

> if they all die within a year I will get a baphomet tatoo.(Upside

> down pentagram with goats head in it). I am not saying curses

work

> 100% but hey I have seen a lot of people who crossed me die.

I like

> seeing them die. I like it when they get sick. I would like to

> have the power Hitler had. I don't necessarily hate jews but I

look

> up to Hitler and Stalin for the power they have.

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I'm going to respond to this for 2 reasons. First, Ellen, you said

what I have been thinking too, about Thoth. I went back in the

archives today and found a post where Thoth said that he called

himself " Butterbean Joe " when he was messing with AA chat groups and

such. I still chuckle at that name, Butterbean Joe--it's so goofy and

so in synch with the kind of phony, smarmy b.s. I associate with AA.

Of course it was horribly disturbing to read what he has been posting

and I think that kind of thing harms our group.

But my 2nd reason for responding is that you quote 's post

about us being cursed, and right after Ken booted Nate, my internet

connection went kerflooey. It's been up and down a few times since.

Coincidence? You be the judge.

judith

> I can't help but think that Nate was so hurt (and made to feel so

powerless)

> somewhere along the line, that he had to make himself (and his

'religion') be

> (and sound) more powerful than anything us mere 'mortals' know

about.

>

> I also can't help feeling for him...after all, he is not Hitler...I

kind of

> think he is all talk and no action, and is, in reality, just a guy

who does

> not know how to deal with his pain.

>

> Ken, I am glad, however, that you banned him. His issues are not

our issues,

> and they did distract us from the central issue that binds us

together.

>

> Thanks, Ken...

> Ellen

>

> babystrange@e... writes:

>

> > > Nate,

> > >

> > > Perhaps you will find somewhere where your hatred and

sadism

> > are more appreciated. You are removed from posting status.

> >

> > Thanks, Ken!

> >

> > Does this mean we're all cursed, now?

> >

> > <shrugs> :^)

> >

> > Cheers,

> > .

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" If memory serves me correctly, Christians didn't invent Satan, " the

Evil One " until 800 or 1000 A.D. Before that there were a multitude

of lesser evil forces from the spirit world. Satanists aren't

disbelievers in the Christian theology, they are believers angry at

one of their Gods seeking Redemption from the other. "

Hi Ken,

Satan is mentioned in the Book of Job in the Old Testament in the

first and second chapter, Psalms 109:6, Zechariah in the third

chapter, and 1 Chronicles 21:1 - all Old Testament - before the

hypocritical Christians came into being. Sorry, but I'm tired of

hearing blanket stereotypical descriptions of Christianity and its

practioners as everyone else is of gays, blacks, women, white men,

Jewish people, etc. etc. etc.

jan

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P.S. Ken, I am pleased you removed Thotaboutit or whatever his name

was. He started out venting then went way overboard. We don't need

that.

jan

>

> > I don't hate all gays just the idiots who hit on everything that

moves. I hate specific homosexuals who died of aids. Yes I am glad

they suffered and are dead. I have no mercy for those who wrong me.

I wished death on a former boss of mine. his wife shot him in the

head and buried him in his backyard. He was a white hetero male. I

am glad he is dead. I wish he would have suffered more. I am not

christian. I rejoice in seeing my enemies suffer. by the way most

of my enemies are white hetero males. A few have been homosexual, a

few black, and one jewish. I am an equal opportunity curser. You

cross me and I rejoice at your pain and suffering.

>

> Nate,

>

> Many years ago when I was going to AA, I knew a guy who had

been a Satanist. I had never met a Satinist before and didn't think

such people really existed outside of B movies. One of the things

that really struck me in a conversation with him was his response to

my feelings about Christianity. He asked me why I wasn't a

Satanist. To me, it was quite obvious -- if I don't believe in the

one Christian God, why would I believe in the other Christian God?

Besides, while I had a Christian upbringing, it wasn't Fundamentalist

or Catholic. The Devil was Flip 's comic character Geraldine's

excuse for doing what she wanted to. It took me a while to

> understand where he was coming from. How could someone not believe

in God and be a Satanist. It seems, from what I've gathered is that

Satanists are perhaps the most Christian of Christians in terms of

the worst of Christianity. If memory serves me correctly, Christians

didn't invent Satan, " the Evil One " until 800 or 1000 A.D. Before

that there were a multitude of lesser evil forces from the spirit

world. Satanists aren't disbelievers in the Christian theology, they

are believers angry at one of their Gods seeking Redemption from the

other.

>

> There was a Pope within my lifetime who gave some sort of

official statement that those who are terminally ill shouldn't be

given too much painkiller because the pain was good -- it helps the

dying find Jesus love. Speaking of AIDS, authorities in the Catholic

Church lobbied against the advertising or mention of condoms at the

start of the AIDS epidemic. They obviously were more concerned with

the abstractions of theology than human life and preventing

suffering. In their book, they would rather people suffer and die

(gay men, wives of IV drug users, children) than let people know that

they could have sex _and_ be safe from infection. A more recent

> Pope went to Brazil and pontificated on the evils of birth control

in a country where thousands of homeless children are murdered by

citizens' groups because they are such a " problem, " stealing to eat.

>

> It isn't " just the Catholics. " Alice reported that of

the members of the Red Brigades in Germany, a group that killed

innocent men, women and children in bomb attacks " for the cause " ,

50% had Protestant _ministers_ for fathers.

>

> From what I've seen of Satanists, they are just one more cult

only difference being they are directly based on the hypocracy in

Christianity and are probably the greatest proseletyzers for the

various churches. " Turn the other cheek " ? Of course that is

nonsense. No Western criminal justice system does so and good

thing. But the Satanic " identical/reverse " " seek revenge " is simply

pathetic.

>

> I think revenge _can be_ just fine. However, one of the

primary requirements is that it is only against the one who agrieved

you and in measure to the agrievement. Satanists seem to take every

bit of childhood abuse and the gruesome assaults that initiate their

conversion ( " see, God won't protect you " ) and use all that rage

against others who do the trivial.

>

> It is really sad to feel so powerless that one must call on,

and attribute others' misfortune or other events to forces forces

from the spiritual world whether it is " because of " praying to the

Sacred Scroll, ejaculating on Communion wafers, or " focusing

thoughts. "

>

> Someone else asked you before, what happened to you that caused

so much rage. I didn't expect an answer then, and I don't expect one

now. Adolph Hitler spent his life seeking revenge on others for what

was done to him. Was he " strong " ? Certainly, in certain respects,

that argument can be made. However, deep in his soul, where the pain

arose, the acting out of revenge on tens of millions of others did

nothing to ease his pain. He still woke up in the middle of the

night screaming, reliving the original, denied experiences, afraid to

be alone and in the dark until his death.

>

> Ken Ragge

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j.m.young@... wrote:

> " If memory serves me correctly, Christians didn't invent Satan, " the

> Evil One " until 800 or 1000 A.D. Before that there were a multitude

> of lesser evil forces from the spirit world. Satanists aren't

> disbelievers in the Christian theology, they are believers angry at

> one of their Gods seeking Redemption from the other. "

>

> Hi Ken,

>

> Satan is mentioned in the Book of Job in the Old Testament in the

> first and second chapter, Psalms 109:6, Zechariah in the third

> chapter, and 1 Chronicles 21:1 - all Old Testament - before the

> hypocritical Christians came into being. Sorry, but I'm tired of

> hearing blanket stereotypical descriptions of Christianity and its

> practioners as everyone else is of gays, blacks, women, white men,

> Jewish people, etc. etc. etc.

>

> jan

Jan,

I could have much better stated what I meant, that the idea of Satan as the

one driving force behind evil didn't arise until 800 or 1000 A.D., more of a

matter of " elevation and assimilation " of one of many evil forces into just

one -- e.g. " known by many names " -- rather than many names for different

evil forces. Of course, I may still be wrong ... It has happened before.

I don't see where I was stereotyping in my post and thought I was rather

specific about rather specific items. At no point did I say the

ridiculous, stereotypical ( " all Catholics are opposed to the Pill even where

children are starving " or " all children of Protestant ministers in Germany

become terrorists. " Nor did I say that all Christians even believe in the

devil, which they don't although that might be as accurate as any such

generality could be. The post wasn't about Christianity, " Christianity is

this, Christianity is that. "

Ken

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I'd just like to ask about " Nate " -- what means this?

.

>From: intelle@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Re: AA gays and aids

>Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 19:53:06 EDT

>

>I can't help but think that Nate was so hurt (and made to feel so

>powerless)

>somewhere along the line, that he had to make himself (and his 'religion')

>be

>(and sound) more powerful than anything us mere 'mortals' know about.

>

>I also can't help feeling for him...after all, he is not Hitler...I kind of

>think he is all talk and no action, and is, in reality, just a guy who does

>not know how to deal with his pain.

>

>Ken, I am glad, however, that you banned him. His issues are not our

>issues,

>and they did distract us from the central issue that binds us together.

>

>Thanks, Ken...

>Ellen

>

>babystrange@... writes:

>

> > > Nate,

> > >

> > > Perhaps you will find somewhere where your hatred and sadism

> > are more appreciated. You are removed from posting status.

> >

> > Thanks, Ken!

> >

> > Does this mean we're all cursed, now?

> >

> > <shrugs> :^)

> >

> > Cheers,

> > .

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" I'm tired of hearing blanket stereotypical descriptions of Christianity and

its practioners as everyone else is of gays, blacks, women, white men,

Jewish people, etc. etc. etc. "

-- hear, hear, Jan -- I'm sick of the stereotypes, which include rabidly

righteous right wing loonies, soft as sh*t mindless suckers for the

oppressive God myth, deranged believers in great impossibilities, and

general intellectually prehistoric cases. Just because the world in general

has caujght up with the comparative religion of the nineteenth century, a

multitude of know-nothings assumes its a scientific fact that God doesn't

exist, and greatly prefer things that way,

Rant rant . . . " Woe unto ye ye scribes and pharisees " , Isaiah 58, etc.

Yours,

looking for the life of the world to come and the resurrection of the dead,

.

>From: j.m.young@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: AA gays and aids

>Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 02:19:08 -0000

>

> " If memory serves me correctly, Christians didn't invent Satan, " the

>Evil One " until 800 or 1000 A.D. Before that there were a multitude

>of lesser evil forces from the spirit world. Satanists aren't

>disbelievers in the Christian theology, they are believers angry at

>one of their Gods seeking Redemption from the other. "

>

>Hi Ken,

>

>Satan is mentioned in the Book of Job in the Old Testament in the

>first and second chapter, Psalms 109:6, Zechariah in the third

>chapter, and 1 Chronicles 21:1 - all Old Testament - before the

>hypocritical Christians came into being. Sorry, but I'm tired of

>hearing blanket stereotypical descriptions of Christianity and its

>practioners as everyone else is of gays, blacks, women, white men,

>Jewish people, etc. etc. etc.

>

>jan

>

>

>

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________________

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Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

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AA gays and aids

Thothtahut wrote some more offensive dreck:

----------------------------> " PLONK! " *

*The sound of further messages hitting my deleted messages bin after I

killfiltered this guy.

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