Re: Question about milk production.....

September 3, 1999

In a message dated 9/3/99 4:32:50 PM Central Daylight Time,

Jnzcraftco@... writes:

<< She has a Medela pump and is pumping every 2 hours and only getting about

an

ounce at a time. >>

Is she renting the Lactina or the Clasic? Both of thoes are what she needs if

she is trying to increas her supply. She needs to be pumping at least 20

minutes each time every 2 hours so it owuld be line 2 O'clock 4 O'clock and

so on. If she still isn't getting any impovment I would try pumping 20

minutes every hour. If she is also nursing the baby she shoudl do it rigt

after she feeds him of course she won't see very much milk right after a

feeding cause he just took alot of it but the pumping after will REALLY

increase the supply. Tell her even if she just nursed him she shoudl STILL

pump her every 2 hours.

Amy

September 3, 1999

Yes, she's pumping faithfully every 2 hours, but he's not nursing. I know

this is part of the problem too! She can't get him to latch on. Her nipples

are really big and I tried to help her out and get him latched on and even I

couldn't get them going and I've nursed 4 of the little buggers! I'm at a

complete loss!

Jen

September 3, 1999

I intro'd myself to the list 2 or 3 months ago, but then my DH just packed

up the computer one day, almost a month before we moved...and I haven't

been on since just a week or so ago. Anyway, your friend NEEDS to contact

a lactation consultant and have her baby undergo either some suck training

so he can be taught how to properly latch on. I have large breasts (G or

H) and kinda flat nipples, and it did take awhile for my DS to learn to

nurse properly -- maybe 3 or 4 days. And while pumping may help some, it

will not be nearly as effective as having her baby nurse, since even the

very best pump is only 1/3 as effective as a baby. There are women who

pump exclusively for their infants, but that's usually not a choice they

made, but rather a result of some problem that prevented their babies from

latching successfully (e.g., cleft palate or very premie babies). When she

does pump, she should be using a double electric pump, such as a Lactina or

Classic (as someone mentioned). However, some women have a hard time

letting down even for the best pumps. For help with letting down and other

pumping issues, she can check out http://www.enscript.com/pump/index.html.

Also, fenugreek and other supply enhancers aren't really meant for new

moms; her baby, and plenty of rest, is the absolute BEST supply enhancer,

and she will have the best chance of succeeding if she gets the baby to

latch. Again, a competent LC can help there, and if the first one tells

her otherwise, she should keep looking.

If you need more info, I'll be happy to help!

* * * * * * * * * * *

Bullock

mommy to , 1/25/99

http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/james_edward/

September 4, 1999

Jen,

One more thing to consider re the cost: formula, each month, will be A LOT

more. And then there's the bottles... Maybe the hospital where she

delivered (if she delivered in a hospital) has an LC -- they usually don't

charge. Or, a friend of mine who lived too far for any LC to even *want*

to come out, and she ended up going over it by phone with an LC. Her

daughter is now 11 months old and still BFs. Also, calling LLL might help

and going to a meeting should help, too. I really want to encourage her to

keep trying; it's such a wonderful thing!

* * * * * * * * * * *

Bullock

mommy to , 1/25/99

http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/james_edward/

September 4, 1999

Jen

After keeping up with this thread I just have to put in my .02

I think a good LC would do the trick (repeat, a GOOD LC) If she can get the

baby to latch on, then she should pump the side she's not nursing on WHILE

the baby is nursing. If she's JUST pumping, I don't think she'll be able to

keep up the supply. It's really important at this point that she get the

baby to latch on.

I hope it all works out for her!!!

Gazley

Mom to (Oct 8, 1998)

http://members.tripod.com/~MysticMom

September 4, 1999

In a message dated 9/3/99 2:32:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Jnzcraftco@... writes:

<< My question is, is there anything else she can do? I'm afraid she's gonna

give up and she really wants to be successful. >>

Jen this sounds so familiar to me! I went thru the same situation.

1st of all, is she still supplementing? If so how much? Is baby having enough

wet & dirty diapers? If supplementing, start cutting back slowly. Make sure

all supplements are after nursings. Make sure baby is nursing as long as

he/she wants. Do not watch the clock. If not supplementing & having enough

wet/dirty diapers there is nothing to worry about.

Pumping is NOT an indicator of yield. Some woman do not let down on a pump,

she may do better hand expressing with the skin to skin contact you use.

Has she seen a LC or been in contact with a LLL leader? She definitely needs

that support. When dealing with supply issues, friend are great for

encouragement, but professionals are needed to help with facts. (Does that

make sense?)

Good luck, & keep me posted.

Cristina

September 4, 1999

<< Thanks so much! I'll let her know, we're trying to find someone in her

area.

She did have a LC come out, but it was $60.00/hr and .50 a mile and they

can't afford that, so we're looking for someone else now.

Thanks again!!

I'll let you know what happens! >>

How about going back to the hospital where she had her baby? They usually

have LC's. Also she could try WIC, sometimes they have bf counseler's.

Dani

September 4, 1999

Yes, it does make sense and she saw a LC, but it didn't help that much. I'm

trying to find a LLL group in her area or at least a " buddy " she can go to

for help. We live about an hour from her and I was there for two days and

helped a bit, but she still needs more help getting him latched on.

Thanks so much for the advice!! She's supplementing a little with Similac,

but trying to feed him through an eyedropper or cup instead of the bottle, so

as not to further confuse him!

Jen

September 4, 1999

> My question is, is there anything else she can do? I'm afraid she's gonna

> give up and she really wants to be successful.

Your friend's biggest problem is getting her baby latched on, more than

pumping. If she isn't going to be successful with letting down for a

hunk of machinery, she's going to have to depend on her baby's

suckling!

Even if she has large nipples, her baby can take them in; they're soft

and pliable and will conform to the shape of her baby's mouth. Work on

her basic positioning, and make improvements that will help her and her

baby make the latch-on.

Have mom sit up to breastfeed, with her feet resting comfortably (use a

stool if necessary), arms supported, shoulders resting comfortably and

not leaning forward. The baby should be pulled in close so that his

face rests comfortably in front of the breast without turning his head

or flexing his neck. His whole body should face hers. The baby's head

should be straight, in line with his body, not arched back or turned

sideways. His chin should be pressed gently into the mother's breast

with his head tilted slightly back (chin down would make swallowing more

difficult). He should be at breast level, well supported, without

straining the muscles in mother's arms, shoulders, neck or back. His

ears, shoulders and hips should all be in a straight line.

To make the mother's nipples most comfortable, she needs to make getting

most of the nipple and areola far back into the baby's mouth where it

cannot be gummed or chewed. She should only feel a gentle tug at her

whole breast, and not just at the nipple. To do this, her baby's mouth

should be directly in front of the nipple, not above or below, and her

baby's mouth will have to open as wide as possible. Pull down gently on

the baby's jaw (or have a helper do this) when latching on. Timing is

important in managing to get the breast into the baby's mouth quickly,

and patience is important, too.

The mother can teach her baby to open wide by saying the word " open " and

opening herown mouth wide, as she is tickling or brusing the baby's lips

to get him to open wide. He will learn to associate the tickling with

the action.

Your friend can think of the back of her baby's throat as the bull's eye

or target for where she wants her nipple to go once she gets ready to

pull her baby in close once his mouth is opened wide. His chin should

press into her breast and his nose should rest against the breast.

Don't worry that he won't be able to breathe; his nostrils will flare

out to help him breathe, and she can pull his knees in closer to her to

help position his head and jaw better for the airway. Pressing down on

her breasts to make an airway can pull the nipple out of the baby's

mouth and contribute to plugged ducts.

The signs of a good suck:

You should see a " wiggle " at the junction of the temples and ears;

You should be able to hear the baby swallowing (sounds like " cah " );

The suck-swallow pattern should last about 10-20 mintues, with

swallowing occurring after every one or two sucks or so;

You should be comfortable with no pain during the suck-swallow cycle;

Your baby will end the feeding when finished;

Your baby will have plenty of wet diapers with clear urine, and several

dirty dijon-mustard-with-seeds diapers a day.

She really needs to focus on getting her baby latched on and not on the

pumping. Pumping alone is not usually enough to sustain a supply, and

her baby will not learn to suckle at the breast if he's only been

exposed to a bottle until he's " big enough " for her nipples.

Let us know how this goes, and if we can give any more suggestions.

You're a great friend to ask this for her!!

September 4, 1999