Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I am an adult and I have been very shy and fearful since I was a child after my teeth was filled with amalgam. Is it correct that when I removed the filling and on several rounds of chelation, the symtoms will just go away? Or I should take other supplements to correct the problems? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Hi, my son experienced severe shyness and fearfulness, I called it paranoid. Valtrex, probiotics, L-carnatine, L-Carnosine, Co-Q10, Licorice are what we have him on. Primal Defense is the probiotic. He is almost completely over the paranoid. The shyness goes away after he is around others for a little while. Jennfer Ruston, Louisiana [ ] Shyness I am an adult and I have been very shy and fearful since I was a child after my teeth was filled with amalgam. Is it correct that when I removed the filling and on several rounds of chelation, the symtoms will just go away? Or I should take other supplements to correct the problems? Thanks. ======================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 That is good advice, Connie. -Beth --------------------------------- Celebrate 's 10th Birthday! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Bless you Beth! You are you and that's just fine!! Thanks F-Dogg for putting it so clearly. Best, Jim Beth, In Europe and Asia, introverts and shy intelectuals are considered the norm and true extraverts are considered an oddity. While here in the U.S, if you aren't an extravert constantly sharing everything, then you're considered weird and out of it. You're not sick Beth, but you do you live in a sick backwards society. Don't forget that. I just released today that America has no strong myth and is therefore lost, and will always be lost until it finds a suitable one. I came to this conclusion by watching " I Heart Huckabees " and watching Bill Moyers interview ph Cambell. I think you're too hard on yourself Beth because you don't realize you live in an F'd up culture... You gotta burst out of the suffocating bubble that's binding you. F-Dogg Jim, Just thought I'd mention something I found interesting. I am on another group unrelated to medical issues, and the past two days have yielded nearly universal lengthy off topic personal posts about people's painful experiences with shyness, which have provoked similar responses from almost everyone in the group. I guess you are right about it being a normal condition ill suited for medical treatment and psychiatric abuse. The isolation of shyness, however, leaves people vulnerable to the so-called experts who recommend prozac as the magic solution. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Bless you Beth! You are you and that's just fine!! Thanks F-Dogg for putting it so clearly. Best, Jim Beth, In Europe and Asia, introverts and shy intelectuals are considered the norm and true extraverts are considered an oddity. While here in the U.S, if you aren't an extravert constantly sharing everything, then you're considered weird and out of it. You're not sick Beth, but you do you live in a sick backwards society. Don't forget that. I just released today that America has no strong myth and is therefore lost, and will always be lost until it finds a suitable one. I came to this conclusion by watching " I Heart Huckabees " and watching Bill Moyers interview ph Cambell. I think you're too hard on yourself Beth because you don't realize you live in an F'd up culture... You gotta burst out of the suffocating bubble that's binding you. F-Dogg Jim, Just thought I'd mention something I found interesting. I am on another group unrelated to medical issues, and the past two days have yielded nearly universal lengthy off topic personal posts about people's painful experiences with shyness, which have provoked similar responses from almost everyone in the group. I guess you are right about it being a normal condition ill suited for medical treatment and psychiatric abuse. The isolation of shyness, however, leaves people vulnerable to the so-called experts who recommend prozac as the magic solution. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 What an informative - for me anyway - post. The most I ever watch television is a couple of hours a couple times a month (usually a movie - I absolutely abhor those reality shows and find violence pointless so that doesn't leave much to watch does it), I like music and listen on the radio but can easily turn the station if the lyrics are offensive - or just plain turn it off and enjoy my own thoughts, I avoid the headlines, don't buy trash magazines so I don't know much about all those people are you mention except vaguely from long waits in the doctor's or dentist's offices. Thought provoking - about things I haven't thought of in a long time anyway. Perhaps I have not filled my mind with useless nonsense and I am still capable of thinking and in finding meaning in things that others might overlook. Sometimes when I make an observation and speak of it, people will look at me strangely and I feel out of place. It isn't like I'm talking about UFOs or hearing voices - I'm speaking of values and quality of life. I often wonder if there is something " wrong " with me. I don't seem to fit into today's society. I sometimes feel like I was born in the wrong place in history. But, perhaps it's something right instead. Hmmmm, might be a good thing - perhaps I should work on cultivating it a bit more. I've been thinking a lot lately about how meaningless my job is and I want to do something more meaningful with the rest of my life - short as that might be (I'm hardly a young thing - perhaps this is my mid- life crisis). I thank you for posting your views. You've triggered something different in my thought process here. More than you could possibly guess. > Beth, > > > You are right that this culture has a myth, and it is told to us everyday in > commercials, radio jingles, magazine covers, plastic tits, crappy sitcoms, > shallow reality TV personalities, rap videos and forever come with the > accomplice words of " buy " , " better " , " limited time only " , " now " , " hurry " , > " new " and " improved " , etc. etc.etc. The religion of this country is not > Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or even Christianity; we practice the religion of > Consumption and we love it. I mean, we LOVE it. It is sad, but most > unfortunately true. > > Just look how we praise and worship our " Gods " - Jenifer and Ben > Affleck,, Simpson and that boy band clone of a husband, Paris > Hilton, Britney Spears, Brad and Jen, etc. – they're on countless magazine > covers, they have whole segways devoted to them on infotainment news shows, > their breakups are covered in-depth, their nights on the town are covered > like major news stories (like anyone gives a flying crap), and their photos > can be worth millions. And just look at the s, the highth of > frivolousness, it's not about the awards, it's about " the fashion " – Chris > Rock got it dead right! People love the s because they get to see what > their " idols " and " heroes " are wearing, and the awards for the night get > mentioned after who they're wearing. It's ridiculous! I mean when was the > last time you saw a Noble Peace prize event covered, or even mentioned on > the news? You'll hear it once in a while, but you really gotta listen for > it. You gotta put up a great crap filter in your head while in this country > or else you'll drown in meaninglessness and become dumb as a box of rocks. > > Real priorities are backwards in this country, and if you travel outside of > the U.S., people will remark on what a strange, odd country we are. They > pick up on stuff we never would because we're mainly so full ourselves with > how great we are (never say " America is #1 " in a foreign country cuz we're > not by a long shot – Guatamala is technically because they're rated the > happiest peoples in the world). And some foreigners are afraid of us, and > rightfully so. Usually foreigners want to travel to the U.S. because > they're curious (just like I'd love to visit North Korea because I hear it's > a good laugh), maybe work here and earn lots of money for a couple years, > and then return to their real home. When I was in Brazil, I heard this > many, many times… No one had any desire to live in the U.S because they > knew Brazil was much better culturally and society-wise. > > As for Asian cultures, if you ever meet a Japanese or Korean person (Chinese > aren't as " shy " ), you'll find them to be painfully " shy " . I put shy in > quotes because it's all relative since their culture is centered around not > being loud mouthed, aggressive, or noisy, rather, they focus on being > thoughtful, considerate, polite, and respectful at all times. When I was > living in Brazil under Rotary International, there were Japanese exchange > students in my town who were almost impossible to start a conversation with > at the beginning of the year, but towards the end, Brazilian culture and > society rubbed off on them a little bit and they were much more open to > conversation. My Rotary overseer explained that this happens every single > year with Japanese students; they all go through the same transformation of > becoming less introverted. It's almost guaranteed. But the Japanese can be > tough nuts to crack (and other Asians as well), and some are so shy they > don't even bother learning Portuguese because they never talked. Brazil and > Japan are diametrically opposed cultures, so it can be difficult for them… > > And to end with something I found amusing with cultural differences: When I > was in China and speaking with the ladies there, I'd ask them " What do you > look for in a guy? " and they would say, > > " 1. Intelligence 2. Someone who works hard and can provide 3. Good looks, > but not that important " > > Mind you these girls were like 19 or 20 and sometimes good looks would come > in fourth. Now you would never get that response from some chick here in > the U.S because of backward priorities… > > F-Dogg > > > > > > > > I haven't seen or read in years (a friend was a huge fan of his and > forced his works on me; otherwise, I would not have been able to get through > them) but I think that this culture has a myth. Then again, I don't really > agree with , sorry. > > I did not know about Euro. or Asian cultures being introverted. I am pretty > insulated and unworldly. It is nice to learn that. I always loved Japanese > literature and film. Maybe I somehow detected these qualities but couldn't > put a finger on them. > > I did not mean to go so far OT here. Sorry. > -Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Just my two cents: much is made about some supposed 'attack on religion' by secularism. I disagree. The real source of the attack that it seems no one, at least as far as the tv talking heads go, wants to identify the real culprit, which is consumerism. We worship the capitalist individualist 'god' here in America. The threat isn't being perpetrated by secular humanists or libertarians, their numbers are way too small to have any real impact. It is being perpetrated by multi-national corporations and advertising. We used to view the state of being human as being a mirror of God's image; now we see the human as being reflected in Pam 's image. Its a huge shift in our collective conception of what it means to be human. We leave no room for the range of human behaviors and experiences. Anything that does not directly further the capitalist machine gets kicked to the curb. We grind people into dust if they cannot go along with 'the program.' Qualities that don't make you wads of money are irrelevant, such as honesty, integrity, sacrifice, or refusing to buy into every last product that can help you be the 'real you.' The drug ads work almost exclusively on this principle; they restore the 'real' you, they make you 'feel like yourself again' (which is a real philosophical conundrum right there). That's where the disease model comes in: human experience that falls outside of the capitalist model of health--which is really the health of the marketplace and not individual health--is then cast in the disease model. So qualities like shyness, introspection, having an inner life--these things run counter to the imperatives of the marketplace, and are even subversive if they stop the person from consuming more and more. That's why the concept of 'mindfreedom' as espoused by the anti-psych movement goes deeper than the opposition to psychiatry. It is to me a credo for those of us that refuse to buy into the marketplace, the disease model, the 'general consensus,' the bullshit that we are sold every single day. We must refuse to participate, and resist the pressures to conform our psyches to the capitalist model of humanity. And no, I am not advocating an anti-capitalist agenda, I am advocating a mitigated form of capitalism that allows for ways of living that are not exclusively determined by the marketplace. The most revolutionary thing a person can do in the present cultural climate is simply 'opt out.' That's why these drugs are to me so very anti-revolutionary. Instead of embracing our differences of personality and temperment, or demanding that the world alter its demands on the individual, they want us to be content with things as they are, and alter ourselves. Humanity would never have progressed if we swallow that party line. It would be like saying to the slave, be content with your lot, as enslavement is in the service of the marketplace, and to reject enslavement must surely be because you are the sick one, rather than society of those who would enslave others. ----Original Message Follows---- From: " F DOGG " <F_DAWGY_DOGG@...> Reply-SSRI medications SSRI medications Subject: Re: Shyness Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:22:29 -0600 Beth, You are right that this culture has a myth, and it is told to us everyday in commercials, radio jingles, magazine covers, plastic tits, crappy sitcoms, shallow reality TV personalities, rap videos and forever come with the accomplice words of " buy " , " better " , " limited time only " , " now " , " hurry " , " new " and " improved " , etc. etc.etc. The religion of this country is not Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or even Christianity; we practice the religion of Consumption and we love it. I mean, we LOVE it. It is sad, but most unfortunately true. Just look how we praise and worship our “Gods” - Jenifer and Ben Affleck,, Simpson and that boy band clone of a husband, Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Brad and Jen, etc. – they’re on countless magazine covers, they have whole segways devoted to them on infotainment news shows, their breakups are covered in-depth, their nights on the town are covered like major news stories (like anyone gives a flying crap), and their photos can be worth millions. And just look at the s, the highth of frivolousness, it’s not about the awards, it’s about “the fashion” – Chris Rock got it dead right! People love the s because they get to see what their “idols” and “heroes” are wearing, and the awards for the night get mentioned after who they’re wearing. It’s ridiculous! I mean when was the last time you saw a Noble Peace prize event covered, or even mentioned on the news? You’ll hear it once in a while, but you really gotta listen for it. You gotta put up a great crap filter in your head while in this country or else you’ll drown in meaninglessness and become dumb as a box of rocks. Real priorities are backwards in this country, and if you travel outside of the U.S., people will remark on what a strange, odd country we are. They pick up on stuff we never would because we’re mainly so full ourselves with how great we are (never say “America is #1” in a foreign country cuz we’re not by a long shot – Guatamala is technically because they’re rated the happiest peoples in the world). And some foreigners are afraid of us, and rightfully so. Usually foreigners want to travel to the U.S. because they’re curious (just like I’d love to visit North Korea because I hear it’s a good laugh), maybe work here and earn lots of money for a couple years, and then return to their real home. When I was in Brazil, I heard this many, many times… No one had any desire to live in the U.S because they knew Brazil was much better culturally and society-wise. As for Asian cultures, if you ever meet a Japanese or Korean person (Chinese aren’t as “shy”), you’ll find them to be painfully “shy”. I put shy in quotes because it’s all relative since their culture is centered around not being loud mouthed, aggressive, or noisy, rather, they focus on being thoughtful, considerate, polite, and respectful at all times. When I was living in Brazil under Rotary International, there were Japanese exchange students in my town who were almost impossible to start a conversation with at the beginning of the year, but towards the end, Brazilian culture and society rubbed off on them a little bit and they were much more open to conversation. My Rotary overseer explained that this happens every single year with Japanese students; they all go through the same transformation of becoming less introverted. It’s almost guaranteed. But the Japanese can be tough nuts to crack (and other Asians as well), and some are so shy they don’t even bother learning Portuguese because they never talked. Brazil and Japan are diametrically opposed cultures, so it can be difficult for them… And to end with something I found amusing with cultural differences: When I was in China and speaking with the ladies there, I’d ask them “What do you look for in a guy?” and they would say, “1. Intelligence 2. Someone who works hard and can provide 3. Good looks, but not that important” Mind you these girls were like 19 or 20 and sometimes good looks would come in fourth. Now you would never get that response from some chick here in the U.S because of backward priorities… F-Dogg I haven't seen or read in years (a friend was a huge fan of his and forced his works on me; otherwise, I would not have been able to get through them) but I think that this culture has a myth. Then again, I don't really agree with , sorry. I did not know about Euro. or Asian cultures being introverted. I am pretty insulated and unworldly. It is nice to learn that. I always loved Japanese literature and film. Maybe I somehow detected these qualities but couldn't put a finger on them. I did not mean to go so far OT here. Sorry. -Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Just my two cents: much is made about some supposed 'attack on religion' by secularism. I disagree. The real source of the attack that it seems no one, at least as far as the tv talking heads go, wants to identify the real culprit, which is consumerism. We worship the capitalist individualist 'god' here in America. The threat isn't being perpetrated by secular humanists or libertarians, their numbers are way too small to have any real impact. It is being perpetrated by multi-national corporations and advertising. We used to view the state of being human as being a mirror of God's image; now we see the human as being reflected in Pam 's image. Its a huge shift in our collective conception of what it means to be human. We leave no room for the range of human behaviors and experiences. Anything that does not directly further the capitalist machine gets kicked to the curb. We grind people into dust if they cannot go along with 'the program.' Qualities that don't make you wads of money are irrelevant, such as honesty, integrity, sacrifice, or refusing to buy into every last product that can help you be the 'real you.' The drug ads work almost exclusively on this principle; they restore the 'real' you, they make you 'feel like yourself again' (which is a real philosophical conundrum right there). That's where the disease model comes in: human experience that falls outside of the capitalist model of health--which is really the health of the marketplace and not individual health--is then cast in the disease model. So qualities like shyness, introspection, having an inner life--these things run counter to the imperatives of the marketplace, and are even subversive if they stop the person from consuming more and more. That's why the concept of 'mindfreedom' as espoused by the anti-psych movement goes deeper than the opposition to psychiatry. It is to me a credo for those of us that refuse to buy into the marketplace, the disease model, the 'general consensus,' the bullshit that we are sold every single day. We must refuse to participate, and resist the pressures to conform our psyches to the capitalist model of humanity. And no, I am not advocating an anti-capitalist agenda, I am advocating a mitigated form of capitalism that allows for ways of living that are not exclusively determined by the marketplace. The most revolutionary thing a person can do in the present cultural climate is simply 'opt out.' That's why these drugs are to me so very anti-revolutionary. Instead of embracing our differences of personality and temperment, or demanding that the world alter its demands on the individual, they want us to be content with things as they are, and alter ourselves. Humanity would never have progressed if we swallow that party line. It would be like saying to the slave, be content with your lot, as enslavement is in the service of the marketplace, and to reject enslavement must surely be because you are the sick one, rather than society of those who would enslave others. ----Original Message Follows---- From: " F DOGG " <F_DAWGY_DOGG@...> Reply-SSRI medications SSRI medications Subject: Re: Shyness Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:22:29 -0600 Beth, You are right that this culture has a myth, and it is told to us everyday in commercials, radio jingles, magazine covers, plastic tits, crappy sitcoms, shallow reality TV personalities, rap videos and forever come with the accomplice words of " buy " , " better " , " limited time only " , " now " , " hurry " , " new " and " improved " , etc. etc.etc. The religion of this country is not Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or even Christianity; we practice the religion of Consumption and we love it. I mean, we LOVE it. It is sad, but most unfortunately true. Just look how we praise and worship our “Gods” - Jenifer and Ben Affleck,, Simpson and that boy band clone of a husband, Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Brad and Jen, etc. – they’re on countless magazine covers, they have whole segways devoted to them on infotainment news shows, their breakups are covered in-depth, their nights on the town are covered like major news stories (like anyone gives a flying crap), and their photos can be worth millions. And just look at the s, the highth of frivolousness, it’s not about the awards, it’s about “the fashion” – Chris Rock got it dead right! People love the s because they get to see what their “idols” and “heroes” are wearing, and the awards for the night get mentioned after who they’re wearing. It’s ridiculous! I mean when was the last time you saw a Noble Peace prize event covered, or even mentioned on the news? You’ll hear it once in a while, but you really gotta listen for it. You gotta put up a great crap filter in your head while in this country or else you’ll drown in meaninglessness and become dumb as a box of rocks. Real priorities are backwards in this country, and if you travel outside of the U.S., people will remark on what a strange, odd country we are. They pick up on stuff we never would because we’re mainly so full ourselves with how great we are (never say “America is #1” in a foreign country cuz we’re not by a long shot – Guatamala is technically because they’re rated the happiest peoples in the world). And some foreigners are afraid of us, and rightfully so. Usually foreigners want to travel to the U.S. because they’re curious (just like I’d love to visit North Korea because I hear it’s a good laugh), maybe work here and earn lots of money for a couple years, and then return to their real home. When I was in Brazil, I heard this many, many times… No one had any desire to live in the U.S because they knew Brazil was much better culturally and society-wise. As for Asian cultures, if you ever meet a Japanese or Korean person (Chinese aren’t as “shy”), you’ll find them to be painfully “shy”. I put shy in quotes because it’s all relative since their culture is centered around not being loud mouthed, aggressive, or noisy, rather, they focus on being thoughtful, considerate, polite, and respectful at all times. When I was living in Brazil under Rotary International, there were Japanese exchange students in my town who were almost impossible to start a conversation with at the beginning of the year, but towards the end, Brazilian culture and society rubbed off on them a little bit and they were much more open to conversation. My Rotary overseer explained that this happens every single year with Japanese students; they all go through the same transformation of becoming less introverted. It’s almost guaranteed. But the Japanese can be tough nuts to crack (and other Asians as well), and some are so shy they don’t even bother learning Portuguese because they never talked. Brazil and Japan are diametrically opposed cultures, so it can be difficult for them… And to end with something I found amusing with cultural differences: When I was in China and speaking with the ladies there, I’d ask them “What do you look for in a guy?” and they would say, “1. Intelligence 2. Someone who works hard and can provide 3. Good looks, but not that important” Mind you these girls were like 19 or 20 and sometimes good looks would come in fourth. Now you would never get that response from some chick here in the U.S because of backward priorities… F-Dogg I haven't seen or read in years (a friend was a huge fan of his and forced his works on me; otherwise, I would not have been able to get through them) but I think that this culture has a myth. Then again, I don't really agree with , sorry. I did not know about Euro. or Asian cultures being introverted. I am pretty insulated and unworldly. It is nice to learn that. I always loved Japanese literature and film. Maybe I somehow detected these qualities but couldn't put a finger on them. I did not mean to go so far OT here. Sorry. -Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I am so much enjoying everyone's thoughts on this topic. > Just my two cents: much is made about some supposed 'attack on religion' by > secularism. I disagree. The real source of the attack that it seems no > one, at least as far as the tv talking heads go, wants to identify the real > culprit, which is consumerism. We worship the capitalist individualist > 'god' here in America. The threat isn't being perpetrated by secular > humanists or libertarians, their numbers are way too small to have any real > impact. It is being perpetrated by multi-national corporations and > advertising. > > We used to view the state of being human as being a mirror of God's image; > now we see the human as being reflected in Pam 's image. Its a huge > shift in our collective conception of what it means to be human. We leave > no room for the range of human behaviors and experiences. Anything that > does not directly further the capitalist machine gets kicked to the curb. > We grind people into dust if they cannot go along with 'the program.' > > Qualities that don't make you wads of money are irrelevant, such as honesty, > integrity, sacrifice, or refusing to buy into every last product that can > help you be the 'real you.' The drug ads work almost exclusively on this > principle; they restore the 'real' you, they make you 'feel like yourself > again' (which is a real philosophical conundrum right there). That's where > the disease model comes in: human experience that falls outside of the > capitalist model of health--which is really the health of the marketplace > and not individual health--is then cast in the disease model. So qualities > like shyness, introspection, having an inner life--these things run counter > to the imperatives of the marketplace, and are even subversive if they stop > the person from consuming more and more. > > That's why the concept of 'mindfreedom' as espoused by the anti- psych > movement goes deeper than the opposition to psychiatry. It is to me a credo > for those of us that refuse to buy into the marketplace, the disease model, > the 'general consensus,' the bullshit that we are sold every single day. We > must refuse to participate, and resist the pressures to conform our psyches > to the capitalist model of humanity. And no, I am not advocating an > anti-capitalist agenda, I am advocating a mitigated form of capitalism that > allows for ways of living that are not exclusively determined by the > marketplace. > > The most revolutionary thing a person can do in the present cultural climate > is simply 'opt out.' That's why these drugs are to me so very > anti-revolutionary. Instead of embracing our differences of personality and > temperment, or demanding that the world alter its demands on the individual, > they want us to be content with things as they are, and alter ourselves. > Humanity would never have progressed if we swallow that party line. It > would be like saying to the slave, be content with your lot, as enslavement > is in the service of the marketplace, and to reject enslavement must surely > be because you are the sick one, rather than society of those who would > enslave others. > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: " F DOGG " <F_DAWGY_DOGG@h...> > Reply-SSRI medications > SSRI medications > Subject: Re: Shyness > Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:22:29 -0600 > > > Beth, > > > You are right that this culture has a myth, and it is told to us everyday in > commercials, radio jingles, magazine covers, plastic tits, crappy sitcoms, > shallow reality TV personalities, rap videos and forever come with the > accomplice words of " buy " , " better " , " limited time only " , " now " , " hurry " , > " new " and " improved " , etc. etc.etc. The religion of this country is not > Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or even Christianity; we practice the religion of > Consumption and we love it. I mean, we LOVE it. It is sad, but most > unfortunately true. > > Just look how we praise and worship our " Gods " - Jenifer and Ben > Affleck,, Simpson and that boy band clone of a husband, Paris > Hilton, Britney Spears, Brad and Jen, etc. – they're on countless magazine > covers, they have whole segways devoted to them on infotainment news shows, > their breakups are covered in-depth, their nights on the town are covered > like major news stories (like anyone gives a flying crap), and their photos > can be worth millions. And just look at the s, the highth of > frivolousness, it's not about the awards, it's about " the fashion " – Chris > Rock got it dead right! People love the s because they get to see what > their " idols " and " heroes " are wearing, and the awards for the night get > mentioned after who they're wearing. It's ridiculous! I mean when was the > last time you saw a Noble Peace prize event covered, or even mentioned on > the news? You'll hear it once in a while, but you really gotta listen for > it. You gotta put up a great crap filter in your head while in this country > or else you'll drown in meaninglessness and become dumb as a box of rocks. > > Real priorities are backwards in this country, and if you travel outside of > the U.S., people will remark on what a strange, odd country we are. They > pick up on stuff we never would because we're mainly so full ourselves with > how great we are (never say " America is #1 " in a foreign country cuz we're > not by a long shot – Guatamala is technically because they're rated the > happiest peoples in the world). And some foreigners are afraid of us, and > rightfully so. Usually foreigners want to travel to the U.S. because > they're curious (just like I'd love to visit North Korea because I hear it's > a good laugh), maybe work here and earn lots of money for a couple years, > and then return to their real home. When I was in Brazil, I heard this > many, many times… No one had any desire to live in the U.S because they > knew Brazil was much better culturally and society-wise. > > As for Asian cultures, if you ever meet a Japanese or Korean person (Chinese > aren't as " shy " ), you'll find them to be painfully " shy " . I put shy in > quotes because it's all relative since their culture is centered around not > being loud mouthed, aggressive, or noisy, rather, they focus on being > thoughtful, considerate, polite, and respectful at all times. When I was > living in Brazil under Rotary International, there were Japanese exchange > students in my town who were almost impossible to start a conversation with > at the beginning of the year, but towards the end, Brazilian culture and > society rubbed off on them a little bit and they were much more open to > conversation. My Rotary overseer explained that this happens every single > year with Japanese students; they all go through the same transformation of > becoming less introverted. It's almost guaranteed. But the Japanese can be > tough nuts to crack (and other Asians as well), and some are so shy they > don't even bother learning Portuguese because they never talked. Brazil and > Japan are diametrically opposed cultures, so it can be difficult for them… > > And to end with something I found amusing with cultural differences: When I > was in China and speaking with the ladies there, I'd ask them " What do you > look for in a guy? " and they would say, > > " 1. Intelligence 2. Someone who works hard and can provide 3. Good looks, > but not that important " > > Mind you these girls were like 19 or 20 and sometimes good looks would come > in fourth. Now you would never get that response from some chick here in > the U.S because of backward priorities… > > F-Dogg > > > > > > > > I haven't seen or read in years (a friend was a huge fan of his and > forced his works on me; otherwise, I would not have been able to get through > them) but I think that this culture has a myth. Then again, I don't really > agree with , sorry. > > I did not know about Euro. or Asian cultures being introverted. I am pretty > insulated and unworldly. It is nice to learn that. I always loved Japanese > literature and film. Maybe I somehow detected these qualities but couldn't > put a finger on them. > > I did not mean to go so far OT here. Sorry. > -Beth > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I am so much enjoying everyone's thoughts on this topic. > Just my two cents: much is made about some supposed 'attack on religion' by > secularism. I disagree. The real source of the attack that it seems no > one, at least as far as the tv talking heads go, wants to identify the real > culprit, which is consumerism. We worship the capitalist individualist > 'god' here in America. The threat isn't being perpetrated by secular > humanists or libertarians, their numbers are way too small to have any real > impact. It is being perpetrated by multi-national corporations and > advertising. > > We used to view the state of being human as being a mirror of God's image; > now we see the human as being reflected in Pam 's image. Its a huge > shift in our collective conception of what it means to be human. We leave > no room for the range of human behaviors and experiences. Anything that > does not directly further the capitalist machine gets kicked to the curb. > We grind people into dust if they cannot go along with 'the program.' > > Qualities that don't make you wads of money are irrelevant, such as honesty, > integrity, sacrifice, or refusing to buy into every last product that can > help you be the 'real you.' The drug ads work almost exclusively on this > principle; they restore the 'real' you, they make you 'feel like yourself > again' (which is a real philosophical conundrum right there). That's where > the disease model comes in: human experience that falls outside of the > capitalist model of health--which is really the health of the marketplace > and not individual health--is then cast in the disease model. So qualities > like shyness, introspection, having an inner life--these things run counter > to the imperatives of the marketplace, and are even subversive if they stop > the person from consuming more and more. > > That's why the concept of 'mindfreedom' as espoused by the anti- psych > movement goes deeper than the opposition to psychiatry. It is to me a credo > for those of us that refuse to buy into the marketplace, the disease model, > the 'general consensus,' the bullshit that we are sold every single day. We > must refuse to participate, and resist the pressures to conform our psyches > to the capitalist model of humanity. And no, I am not advocating an > anti-capitalist agenda, I am advocating a mitigated form of capitalism that > allows for ways of living that are not exclusively determined by the > marketplace. > > The most revolutionary thing a person can do in the present cultural climate > is simply 'opt out.' That's why these drugs are to me so very > anti-revolutionary. Instead of embracing our differences of personality and > temperment, or demanding that the world alter its demands on the individual, > they want us to be content with things as they are, and alter ourselves. > Humanity would never have progressed if we swallow that party line. It > would be like saying to the slave, be content with your lot, as enslavement > is in the service of the marketplace, and to reject enslavement must surely > be because you are the sick one, rather than society of those who would > enslave others. > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: " F DOGG " <F_DAWGY_DOGG@h...> > Reply-SSRI medications > SSRI medications > Subject: Re: Shyness > Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:22:29 -0600 > > > Beth, > > > You are right that this culture has a myth, and it is told to us everyday in > commercials, radio jingles, magazine covers, plastic tits, crappy sitcoms, > shallow reality TV personalities, rap videos and forever come with the > accomplice words of " buy " , " better " , " limited time only " , " now " , " hurry " , > " new " and " improved " , etc. etc.etc. The religion of this country is not > Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or even Christianity; we practice the religion of > Consumption and we love it. I mean, we LOVE it. It is sad, but most > unfortunately true. > > Just look how we praise and worship our " Gods " - Jenifer and Ben > Affleck,, Simpson and that boy band clone of a husband, Paris > Hilton, Britney Spears, Brad and Jen, etc. – they're on countless magazine > covers, they have whole segways devoted to them on infotainment news shows, > their breakups are covered in-depth, their nights on the town are covered > like major news stories (like anyone gives a flying crap), and their photos > can be worth millions. And just look at the s, the highth of > frivolousness, it's not about the awards, it's about " the fashion " – Chris > Rock got it dead right! People love the s because they get to see what > their " idols " and " heroes " are wearing, and the awards for the night get > mentioned after who they're wearing. It's ridiculous! I mean when was the > last time you saw a Noble Peace prize event covered, or even mentioned on > the news? You'll hear it once in a while, but you really gotta listen for > it. You gotta put up a great crap filter in your head while in this country > or else you'll drown in meaninglessness and become dumb as a box of rocks. > > Real priorities are backwards in this country, and if you travel outside of > the U.S., people will remark on what a strange, odd country we are. They > pick up on stuff we never would because we're mainly so full ourselves with > how great we are (never say " America is #1 " in a foreign country cuz we're > not by a long shot – Guatamala is technically because they're rated the > happiest peoples in the world). And some foreigners are afraid of us, and > rightfully so. Usually foreigners want to travel to the U.S. because > they're curious (just like I'd love to visit North Korea because I hear it's > a good laugh), maybe work here and earn lots of money for a couple years, > and then return to their real home. When I was in Brazil, I heard this > many, many times… No one had any desire to live in the U.S because they > knew Brazil was much better culturally and society-wise. > > As for Asian cultures, if you ever meet a Japanese or Korean person (Chinese > aren't as " shy " ), you'll find them to be painfully " shy " . I put shy in > quotes because it's all relative since their culture is centered around not > being loud mouthed, aggressive, or noisy, rather, they focus on being > thoughtful, considerate, polite, and respectful at all times. When I was > living in Brazil under Rotary International, there were Japanese exchange > students in my town who were almost impossible to start a conversation with > at the beginning of the year, but towards the end, Brazilian culture and > society rubbed off on them a little bit and they were much more open to > conversation. My Rotary overseer explained that this happens every single > year with Japanese students; they all go through the same transformation of > becoming less introverted. It's almost guaranteed. But the Japanese can be > tough nuts to crack (and other Asians as well), and some are so shy they > don't even bother learning Portuguese because they never talked. Brazil and > Japan are diametrically opposed cultures, so it can be difficult for them… > > And to end with something I found amusing with cultural differences: When I > was in China and speaking with the ladies there, I'd ask them " What do you > look for in a guy? " and they would say, > > " 1. Intelligence 2. Someone who works hard and can provide 3. Good looks, > but not that important " > > Mind you these girls were like 19 or 20 and sometimes good looks would come > in fourth. Now you would never get that response from some chick here in > the U.S because of backward priorities… > > F-Dogg > > > > > > > > I haven't seen or read in years (a friend was a huge fan of his and > forced his works on me; otherwise, I would not have been able to get through > them) but I think that this culture has a myth. Then again, I don't really > agree with , sorry. > > I did not know about Euro. or Asian cultures being introverted. I am pretty > insulated and unworldly. It is nice to learn that. I always loved Japanese > literature and film. Maybe I somehow detected these qualities but couldn't > put a finger on them. > > I did not mean to go so far OT here. Sorry. > -Beth > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 As a boy and as a man, I am shy. As a boy, other boys took this shyness to mean I was gay. As an adult, most men think I am " not a man. " Tom Administrator I think if I'd been a boy behaving in the quiet way I did, more notice would have been taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Maybe I should clarify. What I meant by " notice " is that teachers and other adults might not have written off my AS as just " shyness " if I'd been a boy, as it's not seen as " natural " in boys as it is in girls. I hope I didn't imply that shy boys and men have an easier time. I know they don't, which is a shame because they're often much more interesting and worth knowing than the loud types. ~ Kitty > > I think if I'd been a boy behaving in the quiet way I did, more notice > would have been taken. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 > > > " On the topic of shyness, I was wondering if someone was responding to nearly > every post written, and usually at length, would that be considered atypical > Aspie behavior? That seems the opposite of shyness to me. I know that not > every Aspie shares every character trait of other Aspies. " I think many feel comfortable here with other Aspies. I think many feel more comfortable on line. They are glad to find a place where they can discuss things. > > " Furthermore, doesn't it seem like the long heated discussions that appear to > be so frequent herein, would have an inhibiting effect on Aspies who are > really shy, and that a lot of quiet voices that may have some insights > aren't being heard? " I'm sure. I dislike negativity and fighting to a large degree. I didn't know how much of it was from my childhood of being exposed to a lot of fighting and negativity and lack of love and how much was my Aspieness. I don't like heated discussions if I feel the person is attacking me and I'm sure it can feel like that to us even when the other person is not attacking. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Mark wrote: " On the topic of shyness, I was wondering if someone was responding to nearly every post written, and usually at length, would that be considered atypical Aspie behavior? " I can respond to that in terms of the game face that some Aspies adopt thereby leaving themselves open to being accused of being other than AS. I am an Aspie and by nature, quiet, soft spoken and shy. However, I need to earn a living and in the music industry, there is no place for a quiet, soft spoken, shy composer or songwriter or performer or educator. As such, I have a game face where the real me is obscured from the masses as I go about taking care of business, being perceived by others as a 'gregariously outspoken personality.' It's exhausting to live in that game face for even a short period of time but it is the bridge between who I really am and what must be done to be heard by others who do not understand where I live within myself. It's the same when I teach at the University. I have a game face while in the classroom and this allows me to be the outspoken professor students gravitate towards. The bottom line is that I know what I know and I know it well. When I share what I know or what I have, sometimes that game face is invaluable. Does it mean I am not an Aspie? Of course not. I'm still an Aspie underneath the game face. The game face is a tool to help me get to where I need to be. When I am allowed to be myself with those closest to me, they know that I am boldest in writing and shyest in person. Therefore, I am able to give voice to my thoughts here with much less difficulty than if I was involved in a face-to-face conversation. Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Gail: > Just to clarify, I am speaking of the flame wars I have witnessed on Delphi forums. There are a few forums there I like to visit. Years ago there was even a forum named " The Flame Pit " which was created when one particular flame war got so out of hand that it was affecting several different forums. The fighting parties were invited to hash it out there. It served it's purpose quite well. What a great idea. Then anyone who has a bone to pick with someone can do so there. Tom...? Kate2: >> People who do not know that I am in fact AS still describe me as shy and >> then become totally confused when I defend myself from verbal attack as I tend to become extremely articulate when I am angry. Gail: > LOL! This is one thing I meant about doing something bold that shocks > people. Get me angry and I can be as intense as a blast furnace when expressing myself[ " Mr Mcghee (sp), don't make me angry, you won't like me when I'm angry ;-) " ]. More than one person who thought I was a pushover because I am quiet and dislikefighting have gotten a big surprise. Same here. Some people make the mistake of thinking that being highly sensitive, introvert and generally peaceful is the same as being timid or weak. > I don't fight online, though. I do dislike fighting and feel badly > whenever I do it in 3-D and verbally blast someone. With online > interaction I can step back, yell at my monitor and get it all out, and > then calmly post. LOL! > Someone said that they talk more online. I find that I talk online the way > I do in 3-D. I mostly listen until there is a subject that interests me, or I just feel like talking. Then I talk and talk and go silent again, sometimes for months. I too tend to hyperfocus on something very intensely and then move on to focus just as intensely on something else. > Right now I am in a verbal mood. But I will probably go silent soon and > you guys may not hear from me again until next year. I have been on this list a long time and can't remember the last time I posted before this recent inspiration to share my thoughts. I think it was about a year or more, yes. And I think you may have missed my post back then saying you look exactly like the actress Yvette Mimieux from the original 1960 version of " The Time Machine " (if you are that same Gail Marie who has a photo in the Autistic Picture Project). Whatever happened to the rest of Jypsy's site, btw? Inger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 -- Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: > What a great idea. Then anyone who has a bone to > pick with someone can do so > there. Tom...? The Flame Pit no longer exists, but there is a forum over there called The Ring [as in boxing ring] which serves the same purpose. > Same here. Some people make the mistake of thinking > that being highly > sensitive, introvert and generally peaceful is the > same as being timid or > weak. Yep, and it sometimes annoys or amuses me, depending on what mood I'm in. > I think it was about a year or more, yes. And I > think you may have missed my > post back then saying you look exactly like the > actress Yvette Mimieux from > the original 1960 version of " The Time Machine " (if > you are that same Gail > Marie who has a photo in the Autistic Picture > Project). Yep, I have my picture on there. And I did miss seeing your post where you said that! You think I look like Yvette? Thanks! :-) > Whatever happened to the rest of Jypsy's site, btw? I am not sure. I know she was having some problems awhile back, but I cannot recall right now exactly what kind. Maybe someone else here knows. Take care, Gail :-) __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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