Re: Once daily ALA dose? Dana

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/4/03 10:24:19 AM Mountain Daylight Time, Momlaw@...

writes:

> But it would appear the

> dangers would outweigh the benefits.

>

>

>

>

Just from my personal experience as an adult, 14 years AFTER mercury removal

at age of 38, I would strongly recommend against single doses of ALA . I took

ALA 1 to 3 times daily for many months per Sherry 's book: Detoxify or

Die and it caused me VERY serious neurological complications that I am still

unravelling now nearly five months since starting Andy's proper protocol. It

certainly might be inetersting to see how Dana does after 80+ rounds of proper

chelation, given that PERHAPS sufficient brain Hg burdens have now dropped.

Maybe

it then can be safe but I would be very leary of single doses of ALA. I

persoanlly found it to be as devastating as I have heard DMSA to be and with

almost eaxctly the same description of symptoms that arecaused by single doses

of

DMSA.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

We have tried DMSA only on the 4th day to see if that helped clean up the

free-floating mercury but saw no difference. We are on our 15th round, and

frankly, we not only don't see any lasting improvements but are concerned about

other regressions--fluency in reading has dropped--also noticed by teacher.

Spelling has also declined--spelling was his only academic strength and now it

seems he has forgotten some basic spelling. And then there's the unrelenting

crabbiness that has already started on this second day.

We just aren't seeing any improvments at all within any days after our

rounds. But I am willing to go to at least 50 rounds before I give up.

[Guest guest]

> Dana,

>

> You stated you were considering a once daily ALA dose--unless I now

recall

> that incorrectly

Nope, you are correct, I did say that.

>>and how

> much would you give?

Not sure right now. Currently I give about 100 mg per dose on the 3/4

protocol. Not sure if I would keep the same dose or reduce it.

> round goes on, he loses the good things (usually by the 3rd day)

What do you do about zinc and other issues associated with using ALA?

This does sound semi-similar to my son.

do lots of

> anti-yeast--GSE, Oil of Oregano, probiotics--so I'm not sure what's

going on.

How many rounds have you done so far? Try removing all the yeast

stuff unless you see that he has the beginnings of a yeast problem.

My son does not tolerate any probiotics [except Culturelle but ONLY

when he has bacteria]. I give GSE when he has yeast, and stop

immediately when the yeast is gone.

> I know this is bigtime contrary to Andy's protocol,

1. I am only considering this because I have completed 80 rounds so

far.

2. You are probably aware that I don't do Andy's protocol in the

first place LOL. He has great info, but sometimes I make decisions to

" try it another way " to see if my kids tolerate it a different way

that I would be more likely to be able to actually *do*.

>> but I wonder about a

> one-dose daily of ALA to maintain the good effects. But it would

appear the

> dangers would outweigh the benefits.

I think it would depend on how metal toxic is your child, and whether

or not you try a different method and if your child did okay with it.

Be sure to give lots of vitamin C and/or selenium and/or other

anti-oxidants.

I have not started one-dose yet, because I am working on another issue

right now. In fact, I started a regular round 81 yesterday. But

probably in another month or so, I will change to one-dose and see how

it goes.

Always a non-conformist LOL

Good luck.

Dana

[Guest guest]

I'm not Dana, but the thought of one powerful dose of ala knocking

loose a bunch of mercury with nothing to finish the round of days of

pulling it all the way out, scares me. We would be talking about

mercury pulled and then circulating, probably zeroing right back in

on the brain like a magnet and going in and maybe damaging more

healthy neurons or doing further damage to just freed ones.

Do you mind if I ask Dana or , would you use dmsa round (three

days) after a single dose of ala to try to pull the mercury fully out

of the body?

Also, , I have had the same type of experience with the first day

of chelation being a great one for seeing improvements. Some

improvements stay but some also seem to fade as the cycle goes on.

What I wanted to say to that was that I have learned to really ignore

the first day of chelation and the first day after. Ignore the first

because I believe the chelators lift/pull/magnetize a whole bunch of

mercury to the brain barrier and some is carried out by the ala. I'm

not a scientist, or specialist, so I'm not sure this is the case, but

this is what I believe.

I believe that perhaps as levels of chelators rise and fall this

repeats it's and we see a bunch of breakthroughs. I try to think of

them as potential if we could get all that mercury out at once.

But as all the mercury won't come out at once I ignore that first

day, and I give the chelation (lately) every two hours. Both ala and

dmsa every two hours. I try to never let the blood level go down.

I've had a LOT of barely sleeping nights like this, but I feel

better knowing I haven't let my son down by letting the cycle end too

early.

The first day off chelation is always a high crying day and slight to

moderate tantruming day. I also try to ignore this day since I

believe metals are resettling (that that was not carried out or

pulled through the brain). I try to think of how frustrating it is

for my son to have gotten a little freedom in communicating and

movement, and then to go back to not being able to communicate so

well--must be frustrating. That and who knows what kind of headache

or funny feeling he has in his body.

What I focus on are the few days after chelation. Usually what I see

at that time is fairly consistent, whether it's greater ease in

speaking, greater eye contact, etc, etc.

Hope that lends some perspective (not that you asked me, lol).

Lyn

[Guest guest]

Do not ever, under any circumstances, no matter what anyone says or

how convincing they are, use ALA once a day, twice a day, three times

a day, or on anything other than a 3-4 hour chelation schedule.

Andy . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . .

>

> You stated you were considering a once daily ALA dose--unless I now

recall

> that incorrectly (didn't save the original message). Is that

correct--and how

> much would you give?

>

> The reason that post caught my attention was that, within an hour of

my son's

> first chelation dose (DMSA & ALA) everything improves

immeasurably--speech

> become much clearer, language in general is better, behavior

improves. As the

> round goes on, he loses the good things (usually by the 3rd day) and

become

> cranky for the next 6 days--until the next round starts. I can't

quite figure

> out how to maintain the good stuff and eliminate the crabbiness. We

do lots of

> anti-yeast--GSE, Oil of Oregano, probiotics--so I'm not sure what's

going on.

> I know this is bigtime contrary to Andy's protocol, but I wonder

about a

> one-dose daily of ALA to maintain the good effects. But it would

appear the

> dangers would outweigh the benefits.

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have

[Guest guest]

> within an hour of my son's

> first chelation dose (DMSA & ALA) everything improves

immeasurably--speech

> become much clearer, language in general is better, behavior

improves.

Do you know his plasma cysteine? If not, get it checked.

Andy . . . .. . . . . . .

[Guest guest]

--- In , " taosmama " <taosmama@y...>

wrote:

> I'm not Dana, but the thought of one powerful dose of ala knocking

> loose a bunch of mercury with nothing to finish the round of days of

> pulling it all the way out, scares me.

But you may have missed my comment that my kids have been thru 80

rounds of ALA so far. I would not be considering one dose per day for

someone who was still highly toxic. For two of my kids, I am

sufficiently convinced that they have no significantly high level of

metals left. For one of my kids, I am not quite so sure. And for my

fourth child, I am not considering once per day because he has only

done about 30 rounds.

> Do you mind if I ask Dana or , would you use dmsa round (three

> days) after a single dose of ala to try to pull the mercury fully

out

> of the body?

I use ALA only, not DMSA.

Dana

[Guest guest]

> Do not ever, under any circumstances, no matter what anyone says or

> how convincing they are, use ALA once a day, twice a day, three

times

> a day, or on anything other than a 3-4 hour chelation schedule.

>

> Andy . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . .

But why? Where does the magic 3-4 hour number come from? I do not

doubt that you have good reason for your recommendation, but if I'm

going to go against my doctor's protocol I would like to see evidence

that points me in that direction?

brian

[Guest guest]

> > Do not ever, under any circumstances, no matter what anyone says

or

> > how convincing they are, use ALA once a day, twice a day, three

> times

> > a day, or on anything other than a 3-4 hour chelation schedule.

> >

> > Andy . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . .

>

>

> But why? Where does the magic 3-4 hour number come from?

It's not magic, it comes from the pharmacokinetics of orally absorbed

alpha lipoic acid, as determined in humans and reported in the

literature.

>I do not

> doubt that you have good reason for your recommendation, but if I'm

> going to go against my doctor's protocol I would like to see

evidence

> that points me in that direction?

The large number of adverse reaction reports are the evidence, the

pharmacokinetics are the reason. If the doctor says the

pharmacokinetics aren't important or don't matter, all he is saying is

that he doesn't really know enough to practice medicine responsibly.

[Guest guest]

Andy,

Thanks for the answer. Is there some literature I could refer my

doctor to? (I would be interested in reading it too since I want to

know what is going on with my body).

brian

> > But why? Where does the magic 3-4 hour number come from?

>

> It's not magic, it comes from the pharmacokinetics of orally

absorbed

> alpha lipoic acid, as determined in humans and reported in the

> literature.

>

> >I do not

> > doubt that you have good reason for your recommendation, but if

I'm

> > going to go against my doctor's protocol I would like to see

> evidence

> > that points me in that direction?

>

> The large number of adverse reaction reports are the evidence, the

> pharmacokinetics are the reason. If the doctor says the

> pharmacokinetics aren't important or don't matter, all he is saying

is

> that he doesn't really know enough to practice medicine responsibly.

[Guest guest]

Most editions of Goodman and Gilman's Pharmacologic Basis of

Therapeutics cover pharmacokinetics, as do many editions of

on's.

For ALA, dig up the review by Biewenga and others, it cites the

relevant (mostly russian language) literature and reproduces a key

graph.

Andy . . .. . . . . . . . .

> Thanks for the answer. Is there some literature I could refer my

> doctor to? (I would be interested in reading it too since I want to

> know what is going on with my body).

>

> brian

>

>

> > > But why? Where does the magic 3-4 hour number come from?

> >

> > It's not magic, it comes from the pharmacokinetics of orally

> absorbed

> > alpha lipoic acid, as determined in humans and reported in the

> > literature.

> >

> > >I do not

> > > doubt that you have good reason for your recommendation, but if

> I'm

> > > going to go against my doctor's protocol I would like to see

> > evidence

> > > that points me in that direction?

> >

> > The large number of adverse reaction reports are the evidence, the

> > pharmacokinetics are the reason. If the doctor says the

> > pharmacokinetics aren't important or don't matter, all he is

saying

> is

> > that he doesn't really know enough to practice medicine

respon

[Guest guest]

> But why? Where does the magic 3-4 hour number come from? I do not

> doubt that you have good reason for your recommendation, but if I'm

> going to go against my doctor's protocol I would like to see evidence

> that points me in that direction?

>

> brian

I'll give you a different answer, much harder for you to try

to replicate by reading:

when I started chelating using ALA I was NOT convinced that

every 3/4 hours was important. I was CONCERNED about it, and

I was concerned enough to wake up at night and take ALA.

Over the insuing 2 or 3 years, I became convinced that the

dose timing matters and makes a critical difference, at least

for many people.

What convinced me is reading posts from people who have

done it both ways.

By the way, is it really " against " your doctor's protocol

to take something more often? I can see that might be

DIFFERENT timing that what doctor suggests or prescribes,

but is there really a CONFLICT there? It is a rhetorical

question. I would hope there is not.

Moria