Re: Stimming? What is Normal Stimming?

June 20, 2003

---Hi ,

My son is 12, " autistic " , and has not spoken since age 3.

Some of these stims are alot like my son's. He also smells things

alot, and likes spinning things, and movement. I would say it is the

Obsessive-Compulsive side of his autism. His older sister(14) also

has OCD and makes " lists " of things like at age 8 she made lists of

names out of the phone book, saying someday she will call them and

ask them if they are related to her. Around age 9-10 she insisted I

buy the paper every day so she could make lists of all the births and

deaths. She now makes lists of her email friends, copies names out of

her yearbooks, etc. I have noticed that she does things like this

when she is under stress or just plain bored. She gets embarrassed

and tries to hide it now. I believe my son feels comforted by his

stimming.

My son does not talk, but makes it very CLEAR that he feels he HAS to

do some of the things he does, by howling, and fighting me. My

daughter says she just HAS to do the lists, but cannot say why. My

son has " autism " (whatever that really is) and his twin sister and

older sister both keep a 3.5-4.0 grade point average, and play flute

and clarinet.

I have had some success with my son's stimming decreasing by giving

him Transfer Factor www.pro-networkers.com/90647.html

I also chelated him in 2001-02 and saw general improvement in all

areas.

Lindy

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

In , BrandtMrse@a... wrote:

> Hi,

>

> Some very kind people at Enzymes and Autism indicated to me that

many of the

> stims my daughter exibits are not not ordinary stims. Can some of

you

> comment, too?

>

> Here is a list of her favorites. She is always able to talk with

me or stop

> them if need be, but sometimes she says she just has to do it.

>

> running back and forth--like a caged tiger

> tilting her head and shaking her body while she stares at something

> hand " regarding " --holding one hand in the other and keeping her

body stiff

> watching the videos rewind and/or feeling them rewind

> smelling the pages of the book she reads and/or touching the pages

a lot--She

> reads at least 3 grade levels above her grade level, so

this is

> not related to skill

> smelling things a lot--sometimes the first thing she does is to

smell

> something

>

> All of these are less frequent as we chelate via the Andy Protocol

and supply

> supplements, etc. We're on Round 18 as I write. Second DDI after

15 rounds

> indicated she was no longer meeting the counting rules.

>

> Does anyone think these should be checked out as seizures?

>

June 20, 2003

Hello I can help with the book thing here is NZ is an aspergers lady I

remember at one of her talks it stuck in my mind - she would spend hours at

the library because she loved the smell of the books and the sound of

turning pages! She said it made her feel comfortable and calm. I

remembered this because I too love the smell of printed book pages but not

enough to spend time in the library or anything over the top.

Regards

Terri NZ

[ ] Stimming? What is Normal Stimming?

>Hi,

>

>Some very kind people at Enzymes and Autism indicated to me that many of

the

>stims my daughter exibits are not not ordinary stims. Can some of you

>comment, too?

>

>Here is a list of her favorites. She is always able to talk with me or

stop

>them if need be, but sometimes she says she just has to do it.

>

>running back and forth--like a caged tiger

>tilting her head and shaking her body while she stares at something

>hand " regarding " --holding one hand in the other and keeping her body stiff

>watching the videos rewind and/or feeling them rewind

>smelling the pages of the book she reads and/or touching the pages a

lot--She

>reads at least 3 grade levels above her grade level, so this is

>not related to skill

>smelling things a lot--sometimes the first thing she does is to smell

>something

>

>All of these are less frequent as we chelate via the Andy Protocol and

supply

>supplements, etc. We're on Round 18 as I write. Second DDI after 15

rounds

>indicated she was no longer meeting the counting rules.

>

>Does anyone think these should be checked out as seizures?

>

>What else can we do to get rid of the stims? I would like her to be ready

>for school in August, with very little that sets her apart from the other

kids.

>For the most part she fits in quite well except that she is so darn smart.

>

>By the way, she plays the piano beautifully and generally practices well.

>Could she still be having seizures?

>

>Thanks for any input or advice on what is considered normal for the ASD

kid.

>

> in Salt Lake City

>

June 21, 2003

Hi,

Yes, we thought it was sensory integration stufff too--but after therapy and

good results, the other SI stuff if gone. You may be right, though. I am just

worried that we may be looking at seizures or smething else that we have

incorrectly identified as other things.

Thanks for your input.

June 21, 2003

Thanks-

I do wonder if OCD of a mild form is cropping up--but it is not the way you

describe it. I do not want to stop the stimming if it is helpful to her in any

way--I just do not want to overlook a more serious issue because I am

misinterpreting the symptoms.

Thanks for the info on OCD and stimming!

June 21, 2003

Sounds more like issues with sensory integration. Can I ask why you

would want to get rid of these behaviors? It may be that what you are

interpreting as negative may be self-correcting (i.e., she could move

through the stimulatory behavior and beyond naturally). I'd advise the

entire group as well as other parents with autism/ASD kids to be wary of

" trying to get rid of stims. " Unguided efforts such as this actually

promote more exclusive ineffective behaviors and preclude meaningful

interaction with other people.

God Bless!

[ ] Stimming? What is Normal Stimming?

Hi,

Some very kind people at Enzymes and Autism indicated to me that many of

the

stims my daughter exibits are not not ordinary stims. Can some of you

comment, too?

Here is a list of her favorites. She is always able to talk with me or

stop

them if need be, but sometimes she says she just has to do it.

running back and forth--like a caged tiger

tilting her head and shaking her body while she stares at something hand

" regarding " --holding one hand in the other and keeping her body stiff

watching the videos rewind and/or feeling them rewind smelling the pages

of the book she reads and/or touching the pages a lot--She

reads at least 3 grade levels above her grade level, so this

is

not related to skill

smelling things a lot--sometimes the first thing she does is to smell

something

All of these are less frequent as we chelate via the Andy Protocol and

supply

supplements, etc. We're on Round 18 as I write. Second DDI after 15

rounds

indicated she was no longer meeting the counting rules.

Does anyone think these should be checked out as seizures?

What else can we do to get rid of the stims? I would like her to be

ready

for school in August, with very little that sets her apart from the

other kids.

For the most part she fits in quite well except that she is so darn

smart.

By the way, she plays the piano beautifully and generally practices

well.

Could she still be having seizures?

Thanks for any input or advice on what is considered normal for the ASD

kid.

in Salt Lake City

June 21, 2003

As a corollory from a perspective of having OCD (I have OCD, my son is

autistic), the WORST way to get rid of an OCD behavior is to prohibit it

or to try to get rid of it. I have also observed that my son's

stimulatory behaviors (stims, isms, whatever you want to call it) are

NOT OCD behaviors. OCD behaviors stem from a faulty cause and effect

(e.g., if I wash my hands 1000X a day, people will like me, etc.).

Unless your special child's repetitive behavior falls into this type of

category, he/she is not exhibiting OCD presentation.

Also, often it is easy to assume that a behavior is OCD. My challenge

to parents is that they participate and understand the behavior before

EVER trying to " correct " it from a presumptive basis...

I'll stop preaching now

God Bless!

[ ] Stimming? What is Normal Stimming?

Hi,

Some very kind people at Enzymes and Autism indicated to me that many of

the

stims my daughter exibits are not not ordinary stims. Can some of you

comment, too?

Here is a list of her favorites. She is always able to talk with me or

stop

them if need be, but sometimes she says she just has to do it.

running back and forth--like a caged tiger

tilting her head and shaking her body while she stares at something hand

" regarding " --holding one hand in the other and keeping her body stiff

watching the videos rewind and/or feeling them rewind smelling the pages

of the book she reads and/or touching the pages a lot--She

reads at least 3 grade levels above her grade level, so this

is

not related to skill

smelling things a lot--sometimes the first thing she does is to smell

something

All of these are less frequent as we chelate via the Andy Protocol and

supply

supplements, etc. We're on Round 18 as I write. Second DDI after 15

rounds

indicated she was no longer meeting the counting rules.

Does anyone think these should be checked out as seizures?

What else can we do to get rid of the stims? I would like her to be

ready

for school in August, with very little that sets her apart from the

other kids.

For the most part she fits in quite well except that she is so darn

smart.

By the way, she plays the piano beautifully and generally practices

well.

Could she still be having seizures?

Thanks for any input or advice on what is considered normal for the ASD

kid.

in Salt Lake City

June 21, 2003

,

I agree with you. I haven't tried to stop my son's stimming as

I feel its serving a purpose for him. And my father has OCD and

I've always seen the stims as totally different. BUT I wish I could

stop my son form stimming at school as it separates him & makes him

stand out from his peers. The stimming on the playground is what

finally got the school to take notice there was a problem. As of

yet the only way I've found to stop the stimming at school is to go

to school with him. And that certainly wouldn't be good for peer

aceptance either!

, SAHM to 8yr(AS) & Hannah 5yr(recovering from SM)

> As a corollory from a perspective of having OCD (I have OCD, my

son is

> autistic), the WORST way to get rid of an OCD behavior is to

prohibit it

> or to try to get rid of it. I have also observed that my son's

> stimulatory behaviors (stims, isms, whatever you want to call it)

are

> NOT OCD behaviors. OCD behaviors stem from a faulty cause and

effect

> (e.g., if I wash my hands 1000X a day, people will like me, etc.).

> Unless your special child's repetitive behavior falls into this

type of

> category, he/she is not exhibiting OCD presentation.

>

> Also, often it is easy to assume that a behavior is OCD. My

challenge

> to parents is that they participate and understand the behavior

before

> EVER trying to " correct " it from a presumptive basis...

>

> I'll stop preaching now

>

> God Bless!

>

> [ ] Stimming? What is Normal Stimming?

>

> Hi,

>

> Some very kind people at Enzymes and Autism indicated to me that

many of

> the

> stims my daughter exibits are not not ordinary stims. Can some of

you

> comment, too?

>

> Here is a list of her favorites. She is always able to talk with

me or

> stop

> them if need be, but sometimes she says she just has to do it.

>

> running back and forth--like a caged tiger

> tilting her head and shaking her body while she stares at

something hand

> " regarding " --holding one hand in the other and keeping her body

stiff

> watching the videos rewind and/or feeling them rewind smelling the

pages

> of the book she reads and/or touching the pages a lot--She

> reads at least 3 grade levels above her grade level, so

this

> is

> not related to skill

> smelling things a lot--sometimes the first thing she does is to

smell

> something

>

> All of these are less frequent as we chelate via the Andy Protocol

and

> supply

> supplements, etc. We're on Round 18 as I write. Second DDI after

15

> rounds

> indicated she was no longer meeting the counting rules.

>

> Does anyone think these should be checked out as seizures?

>

> What else can we do to get rid of the stims? I would like her to

be

> ready

> for school in August, with very little that sets her apart from the

> other kids.

> For the most part she fits in quite well except that she is so darn

> smart.

>

> By the way, she plays the piano beautifully and generally practices

> well.

> Could she still be having seizures?

>

> Thanks for any input or advice on what is considered normal for

the ASD

> kid.

>

> in Salt Lake City

>

June 21, 2003

Thanks!

June 21, 2003

> Thanks for any input or advice on what is considered normal for the

ASD kid.

> in Salt Lake City

" what is considered normal for the ASD kid "

LOL good question

June 21, 2003

We've removed our son from any situation where " stims/isms " would not be

appropriate. We homeschool and he is much calmer and happier. We join

all of his behaviors as much as possible (e.g., Dawson, 1984 or any

Son-Rise manual). It is a radical solution but it has meant the world

to him and us!

[ ] Stimming? What is Normal Stimming?

>

> Hi,

>

> Some very kind people at Enzymes and Autism indicated to me that

many of

> the

> stims my daughter exibits are not not ordinary stims. Can some of

you

> comment, too?

>

> Here is a list of her favorites. She is always able to talk with

me or

> stop

> them if need be, but sometimes she says she just has to do it.

>

> running back and forth--like a caged tiger

> tilting her head and shaking her body while she stares at

something hand

> " regarding " --holding one hand in the other and keeping her body

stiff

> watching the videos rewind and/or feeling them rewind smelling the

pages

> of the book she reads and/or touching the pages a lot--She

> reads at least 3 grade levels above her grade level, so

this

> is

> not related to skill

> smelling things a lot--sometimes the first thing she does is to

smell

> something

>

> All of these are less frequent as we chelate via the Andy Protocol

and

> supply

> supplements, etc. We're on Round 18 as I write. Second DDI after

15

> rounds

> indicated she was no longer meeting the counting rules.

>

> Does anyone think these should be checked out as seizures?

>

> What else can we do to get rid of the stims? I would like her to

be

> ready

> for school in August, with very little that sets her apart from the

> other kids.

> For the most part she fits in quite well except that she is so darn

> smart.

>

> By the way, she plays the piano beautifully and generally practices

> well.

> Could she still be having seizures?

>

> Thanks for any input or advice on what is considered normal for

the ASD

> kid.

>

> in Salt Lake City

>

June 21, 2003

Seizures don't really present as stims/isms. The best thing to do if

you have any worries about seizures is to get some good references on

Landau-Kleffner syndrome. This is a condition known to have seizures;