Re: Natural antivirals enough?

September 27, 2003

Depending on the virus, the natural ones may work better. After all,

you can use a lot since they are not as a rule incompatible with human

life like all the Rx antivirals are.

Generally you use the OTC stuff, if that doesn't work, stack it with

an Rx antiviral. Valtrex seems to work fairly well and is popular for

this use.

Andy . . . .. . . . . . . . . . .

> I'm just wondering what people think of the idea that you could use

natural

> antivirals (eg. lauricidin, Olive Leaf Extract, vitamin A, zinc) as

opposed to

> the prescription antivirals. Are the natural ones just too weak?

>

> On that same subject, I'm always concerned that, as I'm chelating I

don't

> want to put additional strain on the liver. Anybody know if

lauricidin and/or

> olive leaf extract are particularly hard on the liver?

>

> Probably the reason that Goldberg won't allow you to do his protocol

and

> chelate is due, in part, to concerns about stress on the liver.

I guess he needs to learn more about the liver. You will find

thousands of papers and articles about the liver protective effects of

alpha lipoic acid, which is in fact what it is well known for and

widely used for in the medical community.

>That makes sense

> to me. Anybody have thoughts on the issue of doing both antiviral

treatment

> and chelation at the same time?

Chelate for a while first, if that clearly isn't solving the problem,

stack in some antivirals. The more the merrier as far as the OTC

agents go. Always use NK cell boosters since this is a key weak link

in mercury toxic people. . .. . . . . . .

> Marti

>

> [Non-text portions of this message ha

September 28, 2003

>

> > Testing can be done but isn't easy to interpret.

> >

> > Otherwise history is sometimes clear, sometimes not (e.g. went

berserk

> > after a live virus vaccine with relevant symptoms, still

occurring,

> > very susceptible to other viral illnesses).

> >

> > A trial is often the only way to be sure.

>

> Is a high antibody titer an important clue?

If it is unusually and abnormally high for someone who has been

vaccinated or exposed, perhaps. Norms are for the purpose of

establishing immunity and this information is not readily available.

What is probably more informative is LOW titers to a live virus

vaccine.

More commonly, high titers to a lot of things.

Also IgM elevations, especially to several viruses, since IgM is only

around during and for a couple of months after infection. IgG lasts a

long time, for many diseases lifelong

September 28, 2003

In a message dated 9/27/03 3:31:29 PM Central Daylight Time,

MarthaRolfe@... writes:

> I'm just wondering what people think of the idea that you could use natural

>

> antivirals (eg. lauricidin, Olive Leaf Extract, vitamin A, zinc) as opposed

> to

> the prescription antivirals. Are the natural ones just too weak?

>

My son responded a little bit to Vitamin A, Oregano Oil and Lauricidin but

not as much as he has to Famvir. They probably do help and may be enough in

some cases but he needed more.

Gaylen

September 28, 2003

In a message dated 9/27/03 3:31:29 PM Central Daylight Time,

MarthaRolfe@... writes:

> Probably the reason that Goldberg won't allow you to do his protocol and

> chelate is due, in part, to concerns about stress on the liver.

No, he's just radically, rabidly against chelation in any way at any time.

He has detailed his concerns about chelation to me and he has a few valid

points though most of his beliefs don't seem to follow the research.

Gaylen

September 28, 2003

In a message dated 9/27/03 5:11:00 PM Central Daylight Time,

vidyawattie@... writes:

> Is it possible to tell if a child has viral issues? Is

> the only way to know it is to try antivirals?

Sometimes a trial of antiviral is the only way to know but one clear sign is

a child who regressed and also had motor problems, especially if the motor

problems involve one particular side of the body (ie: unable to use right hand

as well or drag right foot when walking). Also, a child whose symptoms or

functioning level cycles up and down especially if it worsens for a period after

an illness except for the case where some viral kids do beautifully after a

period of a high fever.

Gaylen

September 28, 2003

In a message dated 9/27/03 7:36:01 PM Central Daylight Time,

AndyCutler@... writes:

> Depending on the virus, the natural ones may work better.

Can you elaborate on which viruses are more effectively treated with natural

antivirals and which specific natural antivirals?

> >After all, you can use a lot since they are not as a rule incompatible

> with human

> life like all the Rx antivirals are.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by " incompatible with human life " ?

Gaylen

September 28, 2003

In a message dated 9/27/03 11:00:26 PM Central Daylight Time,

mtien@... writes:

> Is a high antibody titer an important clue?

>

Sometimes yes but not always. A lot of very virally affected kids do not

show high titers to what they're being affected by because their bodies cannot

mount an effective battle (titers) against it. Then, a few months into

antiviral treatment, their titers rise as their body is able to fight it better.

Gaylen

September 28, 2003

He also feels rabidly opposed to secretin, vit. A and most supplements

(except for " one-a-day " type multiple vitamins). He pitched a fit when I told

him I

was trying DMG and told me it would " melt her brain " . I don't think he reads

any other doctors' reports and pubs. He had never heard of Megson, or any

of the theories behind the gfcf diet. You just have to do things his way or

the highway.

>

> >Probably the reason that Goldberg won't allow you to do his protocol and

> >chelate is due, in part, to concerns about stress on the liver.

>

> No, he's just radically, rabidly against chelation in any way at any time.

> He has detailed his concerns about chelation to me and he has a few valid

> points though most of his beliefs don't seem to follow the research.

> Gaylen

>

September 28, 2003

> I'm just wondering what people think of the idea that you could use

natural

> antivirals (eg. lauricidin, Olive Leaf Extract, vitamin A, zinc) as

opposed to

> the prescription antivirals. Are the natural ones just too weak?

*IF* the vitamin A I am using is addressing a viral issue for my son,

then it is doing a very good job of it. He is doing amazingly well.

>>Anybody have thoughts on the issue of doing both antiviral treatment

> and chelation at the same time?

Well, I am using ALA and vitamin A at the same time, altho this is

round 80 so I would suspect there is not a heavy load of metals left

in my son's body.

Dana

September 28, 2003

> Depending on the virus, the natural ones may work better. After

all,

> you can use a lot since they are not as a rule incompatible with

human

> life like all the Rx antivirals are.

>

> Generally you use the OTC stuff, if that doesn't work, stack it

with

> an Rx antiviral. Valtrex seems to work fairly well and is popular

for

> this use.

Do caprylic acid and MCT oil have antiviral properties? My kids do

much better on these than GSE.

Can you develop resistant strains of viruses after using antivirals

(either Rx or OTC) for a long time? How long can you use something

like Valtrex, and will the gains continue after you stop?

Thanks all,

Kat

September 28, 2003

In a message dated 9/28/03 2:15:07 PM Central Daylight Time,

nelsoneyes@... writes:

> He also feels rabidly opposed to secretin, vit. A and most supplements

> (except for " one-a-day " type multiple vitamins).

True.

> >He pitched a fit when I told him I was trying DMG and told me it would

> " melt her brain " .

Yup, that sounds like Dr. Goldberg. He is very dramatic when he doesn't want

you to do something. Actually, he reminds me a lot of Andy in many ways.

Very knowledgeable with great info to share but also caustic against those he

doesn't agree with and melodramatic in trying to make his point (not meant as an

insult, Andy, and I know you've toned it down a lot over the years but the

melting brain reminds me a lot of the image I get when you talk about mercury

" slamming " into the brain.) If you don't take it personally and read/listen for

the real info, you can learn a lot from those guys. I think it would be

extraordinarily fun (though perhaps a bit dangerous) to get you two together to

debate chelation .

By the way, on a chat a few months ago, Dr. Goldberg did say it was ok for

some kids to use DMG in very small doses so I guess he figured out that it

wasn't melting kids brains or perhaps those kids' brains were frozen and needed

some melting .

Gaylen

September 28, 2003

In a message dated 9/28/03 3:27:10 PM Central Daylight Time,

jlarson125@... writes:

> Do you do the High dose vitamin A protocal? I was doing 20,000IUs with my

> 3 year old and saw great eye contact. The dr. we are seeing scared me that

> the VitA would build up in his system.

No, just Cod Liver Oil. The higher dose stuff made me nervous as well even

though I know there is research showing that you'd have to go really really

high for it to be dangerous.

By they way, my son does still take Lauricidin along with the RX antiviral.

Gaylen

September 28, 2003

I agree that you can learn a lot from Andy, but not necessarily the other.

One makes comments based on knowledge, the other based on personal bias. Andy

is familiar with DAN protocol and knows what most of these doctors are doing -

Dr. G dismisses them all as quacks without bothering to research their work.

(Dr. G's feelings about DAN make Andy seem like a fan!) I have a lot of respect

for Andy. I won't say the rest. Believe me, I was once a standard-bearer for

Dr. G - I preached his mantra far and wide, and with much less tact than

Gaylen. It took me almost two years to realize that there was no substance

there.

Live and learn. As another Mom just privately e-mailed me, the worst thing that

he does is to raise your hopes about the immune modulators - just around the

corner - just wait six months and I'll have something WONDERFUL to treat your

child with - just hang in there. He strings people along, knowing full well

that this isn't going to happen. That, and promising a cure, are the two things

he does that are unconscionable. IMO

(o:

September 28, 2003

In a message dated 9/28/03 8:29:15 PM, momtocd@... writes:

> Sometimes a trial of antiviral is the only way to know but one clear sign

> is

> a child who regressed and also had motor problems, especially if the motor

> problems involve one particular side of the body (ie: unable to use right

> hand

> as well or drag right foot when walking).

>

My son USED to drag his foot for a while, then he got better. Do you think

that puts him into the " viral kid " category?

Thanks!

marti

September 28, 2003

In a message dated 9/28/03 4:48:14 PM Central Daylight Time,

MarthaRolfe@... writes:

> My son USED to drag his foot for a while, then he got better. Do you

> think

> that puts him into the " viral kid " category?

>

Absolutely. My son used to drag his right foot as well and was unable to use

his right hand well but those problems got better as his body got healthier.

Dr. Goldberg mentioned that those were key signs of viral involvement for him

and the problem returned briefly when he first started antiviral therapy but

was then followed by a huge jut in fine motor skills.

Gaylen

September 28, 2003

Gaylen would you include oral motor problems as you mention 'motor problems'

here?

Sam had bad dose of chicken pox at 5 months. He makes word like sounds and

noises but no words.

THanks

Mandi in UK

> Sometimes a trial of antiviral is the only way to know but one clear sign

> is

> a child who regressed and also had motor problems, especially if the motor

> problems involve one particular side of the body (ie: unable to use right

> hand

> as well or drag right foot when walking). Also, a child whose symptoms or

> functioning level cycles up and down especially if it worsens for a period

> after

> an illness except for the case where some viral kids do beautifully after a

> period of a high fever.

>

September 28, 2003

Do you do the High dose vitamin A protocal? I was doing 20,000IUs with my 3