Re: Carnosine is a chelator of heavy metals in the brain.....

[Guest guest]

Is anyone using carnosine for their autistic children? what's the dosage?

Thx,

>

> Carnosine is a chelator of healvy metals and it does cross the blood

> brain barrier. I have no idea how fast or effective it is.

> IT does have another very good property for people with heavy metals

> issues: it protects cells from the oxidative damage from heavy metals.

>

> " It has now been demonstrated that carnosine has the ability to

> protect cells againstoxidative stress as well as to increase their

> resistance toward functional exhaustion and accumulation of senile

> features.Mechanisms of such protection are explained in terms of

> proton buffering, heavy metal chelating, as well as free radicaland

> active sugar molecule scavenging.... "

> ( http://216.239.41.104/search?

> q=cache:ordHPSoswQ8J:www.protein.bio.msu.su/biokhimiya/contents/v65/pd

> f/bcm_0751.pdf+carnosine+heavy+metals & hl=en & ie=UTF-8 )

>

> " Other Phase IV detox agents: 14. Receptor site detox: [] Carnosine 2-

> 4 caps/day (1000mg 3x/d); Phase II remedy; clears receptors of cells

> of heavy metals; important for normal cellular activity---

> ( http://216.239.41.104/search?

> q=cache:SZr4Zi1h73MJ:www.nihadc.com/detox_home.pdf+carnosine+heavy+met

> als & hl=en & ie=UTF-8 )

>

> " Carnosine chelates copper, zink and toxic heavy metals, e.g.,

> mercury, lead, cadmium, arsenic and copper " .

> ( http://www.biovita.fi/english/tuotteet/carnosine.html )

>

> " and Carnosine removes toxic heavy metals from the brain cells in a

> biochemical process called chelation "

> http://www.loni.ucla.edu/~thompson/MEDIA/AD/1stvital.htm

>

> Granted the last two are commercial websites, but what they are

> saying is backed up by what the other sources say.

>

> Pete

>

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>

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>

>

> In , " alreadyherenow "

> <alreadyherenow@y...> wrote:

> >

> >>I do not believe this is relevant to clearing the brain of heavy

> >>metals.

> >

> >How can you say that? The article says it chelates heavy metals

> like

> >EDTA. Carnosine also crosses the blood brain barrier.

> >

> >Are you saying that article is wrong and that carnosine does not

> >chelate heavy metals?

> >

> >PEte

>

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> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> Carnosine is a chelator of healvy metals and it does cross the

blood

> brain barrier. I have no idea how fast or effective it is.

> IT does have another very good property for people with heavy

metals

> issues: it protects cells from the oxidative damage from heavy

metals.

One of your links takes you to a picture of the chemical structure of

carnosine....there is not a single thiol (SH) group let alone two for

the effective binding of mercury. It does show carnosine complexed

with zinc and copper, but no indication of how it would effectively

bind mercury.

Beth

[Guest guest]

> > Carnosine is a chelator of healvy metals and it does cross the

> blood

> > brain barrier. I have no idea how fast or effective it is.

> > IT does have another very good property for people with heavy

> metals

> > issues: it protects cells from the oxidative damage from heavy

> metals.

>

>

> One of your links takes you to a picture of the chemical structure

of

> carnosine....there is not a single thiol (SH) group let alone two

for

> the effective binding of mercury. It does show carnosine complexed

> with zinc and copper, but no indication of how it would effectively

> bind mercury.

YOu are assuming that only thiols are capable of chelating mercury. I

don't have nay specific info on how carnosine chelates mercury. All I

know is that there are resources everywhere that says carnosine

chelates " heavy metals " .

There is also the clinical efficacy of carnosine in treating many

cases of autism.

This seems like something to investigate further, not just brushed

aside and ignored.

Pete

[Guest guest]

http://www.protein.bio.msu.ru/biokhimiya/contents/v65/pdf/bcm_0789.pdf

This says that carnosine can complex with Hg in vitro tests.

Even if it did not chelate Hg, one of the biggest benefits that I can

see is protection from heavy metal oxidative damage. It has been

shown to protect against cetain heavy metal damage. It acts

differently than ALA as an antioxidant and might be a great adjunct

along with ALA.

Pete

> > Carnosine is a chelator of healvy metals and it does cross the

> blood

> > brain barrier. I have no idea how fast or effective it is.

> > IT does have another very good property for people with heavy

> metals

> > issues: it protects cells from the oxidative damage from heavy

> metals.

>

>

> One of your links takes you to a picture of the chemical structure

of

> carnosine....there is not a single thiol (SH) group let alone two

for

> the effective binding of mercury. It does show carnosine complexed

> with zinc and copper, but no indication of how it would effectively

> bind mercury.

>

> Beth

[Guest guest]

>> YOu are assuming that only thiols are capable of chelating mercury.

Yes, I suppose that's true, given the lack of specific evidence to

the contrary. I'm open minded though. I really had hopes they would

show mercury complexed to the carnosine like zinc and copper. But

zinc and copper are not " heavy " metals.

> don't have nay specific info on how carnosine chelates mercury.

So then, I hope it's OK (for now, given lack of specific info) that I

assume that the dithiol chelators are better for the removal of

mercury, even if DMPS and DMSA don't get into the brain. (Bind it

tighter, route of elimination is known, etc.)

All I

> know is that there are resources everywhere that says carnosine

> chelates " heavy metals " .

There are resources everywhere that tout lipoic acid as a wonderful

antioxidant, but not a single one ever mentioned that the disulfide

bond is reduced in the body to a dithiol group and it could chelate

mercury in that state. I made myself deathly ill this past spring

when R-Lipoic acid came out and I started taking 100mg of that daily.

According to the label, the pure R form is 10 times as potent as ALA.

So basically I was chelating the mercury right out of my fillings and

into my brain with the equvilant of one gram of ALA bolused in the

morning.

Only Andy Cutler, in his book " Amalgam Illness " gives proper respect

to lipoic acid for this function. I quit the R-lipoic acid right

after the first reading of his book. I believe he saved my life, so I

hope you'll forgive me for giving so much weight to his opinions.

>

> There is also the clinical efficacy of carnosine in treating many

> cases of autism.

Autism is complex. Maybe it's the copper it moves....maybe the

antioxidant function....maybe it's a novel way to increase some

neurotransmiters.....I don't know. I won't deny it helps, I'll just

express my skepticism that it does it by chelating mercury.

>

> This seems like something to investigate further, not just brushed

> aside and ignored.

Oh, I'm not ignoring it, I'm just not going to experiment on myself

when standard chelation (DMPS, orally) is going so well. I did that

once already. I'm staying with the roadmap and a proven driver

(Cutler) for now. At least until you show me some specific info on

how it chelates mercury. (investigate further)

Regards,

Beth

>

> Pete

[Guest guest]

>

http://www.protein.bio.msu.ru/biokhimiya/contents/v65/pdf/bcm_0789.pdf

>

> This says that carnosine can complex with Hg in vitro tests.

>

> Even if it did not chelate Hg, one of the biggest benefits that I

can

> see is protection from heavy metal oxidative damage. It has been

> shown to protect against cetain heavy metal damage. It acts

> differently than ALA as an antioxidant and might be a great adjunct

> along with ALA.

>

> Pete

>

>

I'm not getting anywhere following your bigger links. But it may be

my computer. I'll try later

[Guest guest]

Reality: the word chelate has many legitimate meanings. Medical

types generally can't even use it in ONE of them correctly, so they do

get confused and interchange them.

Carnosine does chelate things. However not in the sense of increasing

their excretion, only in the sense of holding on to them wherever they

are for a while, then letting them go again. Thus it is not a useful

treatment for clearing heavy metals like the dithiol chelators are.

Carnosine is a palliative treatment for autism - kids are better while

on it (some kids, not all) but go right back to where they were when

it is discontinued. Chelation with dithiol chelators that clear

mercury from the body and brain leads to permanent improvement that

remains after the chelators are discontinued. . .. . . . . .

Andy . . . .. . . . . . . . .

[Guest guest]

> Reality: the word chelate has many legitimate meanings. Medical

> types generally can't even use it in ONE of them correctly, so they

do

> get confused and interchange them.

>

> Carnosine does chelate things. However not in the sense of

increasing

> their excretion, only in the sense of holding on to them wherever

they

> are for a while, then letting them go again. Thus it is not a

useful

> treatment for clearing heavy metals like the dithiol chelators are.

>

> Carnosine is a palliative treatment for autism - kids are better

while

> on it (some kids, not all) but go right back to where they were

when

> it is discontinued. Chelation with dithiol chelators that clear

> mercury from the body and brain leads to permanent improvement that

> remains after the chelators are discontinued. . .. . . . . .

Thanks for the explanation. Since carnosine binds with the metals, do

you think it could interfere with the ability of dithiol chelators to

grab onto the metals?

Pete

Pete

>

> Andy . . . .. . . . . . . . .

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > don't have nay specific info on how carnosine chelates mercury.

>

> So then, I hope it's OK (for now, given lack of specific info) that

I

> assume that the dithiol chelators are better for the removal of

> mercury, even if DMPS and DMSA don't get into the brain. (Bind it

> tighter, route of elimination is known, etc.)

See my post after that one for an explanation of how carnosine binds

to Hg.

I understand your position. I was never suggesting someone start

experimenting on themselves with carnosine. I was just trying to

start a discussion on the possibility of it being a useful chelator

from brain heavy metals.

Besides ALA, there are very few substances that can do this safely.

Plus Carnosine has some very good protective functions.

>

> All I

> > know is that there are resources everywhere that says carnosine

> > chelates " heavy metals " .

>

> There are resources everywhere that tout lipoic acid as a wonderful

> antioxidant, but not a single one ever mentioned that the disulfide

> bond is reduced in the body to a dithiol group and it could chelate

> mercury in that state. I made myself deathly ill this past spring

> when R-Lipoic acid came out and I started taking 100mg of that

daily.

> According to the label, the pure R form is 10 times as potent as

ALA.

> So basically I was chelating the mercury right out of my fillings

and

> into my brain with the equvilant of one gram of ALA bolused in the

> morning.

Sorry you had that experience. Is it really 10 times stronger? I read

somewhere that it was 4 times stronger. Anyway, I just chelated with

150mg R-lipoic acid and 100mg dmsa every 3 hours for 4 days! Now its

3 days later after the last chelation session and I feel pretty

crappy. I felt alright during the 4 days chelation.

In the past it has taken me 1-2 weeks to fully recover and get the

benfits of each chelation session. Then my health and energy

noticably improves.

Why do you not take the R-lipoic acid anymore? That is the kind that

is naturally in our bodies. All you got to do is take smaller doses.

This says the synthetic kind can be harmful:

http://www.r-lipoic.com/

Pete

[Guest guest]

--- In , " alreadyherenow "

> Sorry you had that experience. Is it really 10 times stronger?

sez on the bottle (Source Naturals) although it's qualified with

a " may be "

I read

> somewhere that it was 4 times stronger. Anyway, I just chelated

with

> 150mg R-lipoic acid and 100mg dmsa every 3 hours for 4 days! Now

its

> 3 days later after the last chelation session and I feel pretty

> crappy. I felt alright during the 4 days chelation.

It has interesting psycological effects. I felt bullet proof right

up to the time I blew my short term memory and started drooling.

> In the past it has taken me 1-2 weeks to fully recover and get the

> benfits of each chelation session. Then my health and energy

> noticably improves.

>

> Why do you not take the R-lipoic acid anymore?

I'm barely over 1 month past amalgam removal. Too early. Plus, I

anticipate I have " extra " Hg stuffed here and there thanks to the

lipoic acid earlier, on top of the Hg stuffing I got from my crown

over amalgam. I've got a lot close to the surface to get rid of.

Plus DMPS alone is making me feel fine. (I also take a little Armour

thyroid plus a wee bit of prednisolone, plus supplements.)

I'll use R-lipoic acid again only when and if the pharmacokinetics

are worked out.

That is the kind that

> is naturally in our bodies. All you got to do is take smaller doses.

Gonna be hard to split up those tablets 10 ways or more......

Good Luck

Beth

> This says the synthetic kind can be harmful:

> http://www.r-lipoic.com/

>

> Pete

[Guest guest]

> I'm barely over 1 month past amalgam removal. Too early. Plus, I

> anticipate I have " extra " Hg stuffed here and there thanks to the

> lipoic acid earlier, on top of the Hg stuffing I got from my crown

> over amalgam. I've got a lot close to the surface to get rid of.

>

> Plus DMPS alone is making me feel fine.

I'm glad you found something that is working for you.

>

> Gonna be hard to split up those tablets 10 ways or more......

I hear you can just dissolve the pills in water or juice to divide up

the doses.

Best Wishes,

PEte

>

> Good Luck

> Beth

>

>

> > This says the synthetic kind can be harmful:

> > http://www.r-lipoic.com/

> >

> > Pete

[Guest guest]

> " Carnosine chelates copper, zink and toxic heavy metals, e.g.,

> mercury, lead, cadmium, arsenic and copper " .

> ( http://www.biovita.fi/english/tuotteet/carnosine.html )

I don't know HOW it does it, whether it increases retention of copper

or increases excretion [ " chelates " ] of zinc, but I DO know that

Carnosine increases my kids' copper levels. So in my experience, it

does NOT chelate copper.

Dana

[Guest guest]

> Is anyone using carnosine for their autistic children? what's the

dosage?

I posted asking about dosage of Carnosine a few months ago, and the

info I received was usually 500 mg per day, usually in 2 doses of 250

mg each. I used that dose for my kids for a few months, but I have

recently reduced it without any loss of language or behaviors.

Dana

[Guest guest]

> There are resources everywhere that tout lipoic acid as a wonderful

> antioxidant, but not a single one ever mentioned that the disulfide

> bond is reduced in the body to a dithiol group and it could chelate

> mercury in that state.

Actually I have little books about ALA that say it chelates

mercury and/or metals (I'm not sure which). They are pretty

non-specific about it, and don't know how to use it, and I

am sure they don't say exactly what you just said, but they

do say something in that direction. Of course, lots of

sources say lots of things chelate mercury. But I thought

you might find this interesting!

Moria