Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 krin135@... wrote: Paramedics may save lives, but Basics save Paramedics! _____________________________________________________ I thought it was Paramedics may save lives, but EMT's save Paramedics. This will be getting off of the subject a little bit. One thing that I do like about the NSoP is that it will change the title of " EMT-B " to " Emergency Medical Technician " . I remember in 1990 when the NREMT changed the old EMT-A to EMT-B and everyone was then referred to as a " basic " . I personally do not like to use the " b-word " . Think about it, in any profession would you like to be a basic anything. Even if I were a garbage man I really wouldn't want to be just a basic garbage man. It may seam like a trivial point but does the term " just a basic " (something I hear of way too much) work against us when we try to recruit people into our profession? I never use the term basic always EMT and I hope people will think about this in the future. ajl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Well said, !!!!! I like your way of thinking! KUDOS TO YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holmes wrote:NOTE: A paramedic is only as good as his Basic or Intermediate is on the scene. It's a team. Holmes, NREMT-P , Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 What about those of us who work double paramedic trucks??? D. Stone > NOTE: > > A paramedic is only as good as his Basic or Intermediate is on the > scene. It's a team. > > Holmes, NREMT-P > , Texas > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 What about those of us who work double paramedic trucks??? D. Stone > NOTE: > > A paramedic is only as good as his Basic or Intermediate is on the > scene. It's a team. > > Holmes, NREMT-P > , Texas > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Then without a basic, you're worthless. <grin> Mike > What about those of us who work double paramedic trucks??? > > D. Stone > > > > NOTE: > > > > A paramedic is only as good as his Basic or Intermediate is on the > > scene. It's a team. > > > > Holmes, NREMT-P > > , Texas > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 That is how I took it also... D. Stone > > > NOTE: > > > > > > A paramedic is only as good as his Basic or Intermediate is on the > > > scene. It's a team. > > > > > > Holmes, NREMT-P > > > , Texas > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 That is how I took it also... D. Stone > > > NOTE: > > > > > > A paramedic is only as good as his Basic or Intermediate is on the > > > scene. It's a team. > > > > > > Holmes, NREMT-P > > > , Texas > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 You are missing the boat on the " Basic Worship'' inherent in this thread......BUTCH UP! TD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 You are missing the boat on the " Basic Worship'' inherent in this thread......BUTCH UP! TD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 > I personally do not like to use the " b-word " . Think about it, in any > profession would you like to be a basic anything. Even if I were a > garbage man I really wouldn't want to be just a basic garbage man. > > It may seam like a trivial point but does the term " just a > basic " (something I hear of way too much) work against us when > we try to recruit people into our profession? My response is " deal with it. " If you have found a profession which does not categorize it's members in a heirarchy, congratulations. I have yet to find such a profession. The garbage truck drivers call the guys on the back of the truck, " just a garbage man. " New med school graduates are " just an intern. " If you don't wanna be at the bottom of the scrotum pole, then go to school and advance yourself. It's a lot easier and a lot more satisfying than trying to use political correctness to make yourself " feel " better. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 > I personally do not like to use the " b-word " . Think about it, in any > profession would you like to be a basic anything. Even if I were a > garbage man I really wouldn't want to be just a basic garbage man. > > It may seam like a trivial point but does the term " just a > basic " (something I hear of way too much) work against us when > we try to recruit people into our profession? My response is " deal with it. " If you have found a profession which does not categorize it's members in a heirarchy, congratulations. I have yet to find such a profession. The garbage truck drivers call the guys on the back of the truck, " just a garbage man. " New med school graduates are " just an intern. " If you don't wanna be at the bottom of the scrotum pole, then go to school and advance yourself. It's a lot easier and a lot more satisfying than trying to use political correctness to make yourself " feel " better. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 This the disintegration of thread into a name calling flame throwing match has once again proven my point about the " Us against them " mentality of EMS in general. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (IFW Office) (Cell Phone) (IFW Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 This the disintegration of thread into a name calling flame throwing match has once again proven my point about the " Us against them " mentality of EMS in general. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (IFW Office) (Cell Phone) (IFW Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us mere EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. I am sorry for even suggesting that you might be an EMT or even have the same training as the rest of us. McGee, EMT-I Mike wrote: No, my official certification patch has a star of life and the words LICENSED PARAMEDIC. Texas has no law w.r.t. the letters after your name, and I, like most others, use LP - or for more formal usages, A.A.S, LP. Mike > What lettering is on your official certification patch? What letters are you allowed by Texas law after your name? I believe the answer to both would be: EMT-P. Therefor you are still an EMT. > > > > Silsbee EMS wrote: > Texas Department of Health > Certifies that > D. > meets the requirements for > Paramedic > No EMT on there any place, that is this years certification that I have for the next 4 years if I don't do something wrong. I am looking at it I am not an EMT any more. expires 07/31/08, 4 years. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Re: Re: JUST A BASIC > > > correction - the licensed paramedic documentation does not say EMT > anywhere on it - patch, certificate or card. > > Mike > > > > From my point of view, we are ALL EMT's. It doesn't matter if we are Basics, Intermediates, Paramedics, or Licensed Paramedics; all of our certifications read " Emergency Medical Technician, therefor we are all (at least in the public eye) EMT's. Just my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > Live for today, tomarrow is not here yet and laugh at yourself often before someone else does. > > > > McGee, EMT-I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 McGee <summedic@y...> wrote: > I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us mere > EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. It wasn't Mike's decision. The decision was made for him by the State Of Texas. I'm sorry you're taking it so personally. Again, this is not unique to EMS. Residents are " far superior " to interns. Board certified attending physicians are " far superior " to residents. If they weren't, a great many people would lack the motivation to advance from their current status and we would have a hundred times as many GP's as we do board certified specialists. The only reason basic EMT's are the " life blood " of EMS is because the current system allows it. If the system itself were to elevate its game, that would not necessarily remain the case. But as long as providers are allowed by law to staff with the cheaper basic EMT, they will. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 Thank you Rob. I understand your point, but acording to the info on the official Texas TDH website, one of the requirements for licensure in Texas is passing the National Registry EMT-P exam along with the college degree. Last time I looked, NREMT-P was the highest level given by the National Registry. My point is, if you walk like an EMT and sound like an EMT, you must be an EMT. dustdevil31 wrote: McGee <summedic@y...> wrote: > I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us mere > EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. It wasn't Mike's decision. The decision was made for him by the State Of Texas. I'm sorry you're taking it so personally. Again, this is not unique to EMS. Residents are " far superior " to interns. Board certified attending physicians are " far superior " to residents. If they weren't, a great many people would lack the motivation to advance from their current status and we would have a hundred times as many GP's as we do board certified specialists. The only reason basic EMT's are the " life blood " of EMS is because the current system allows it. If the system itself were to elevate its game, that would not necessarily remain the case. But as long as providers are allowed by law to staff with the cheaper basic EMT, they will. Rob --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 OK, gotta wade in, I humbly consider myself to be an ambulance driver with an extensive, intense and ongoing pre-hospital education. Is this really that big of a deal? , while you may be correct in focusing on the difference being a 'few' skills, you failed to mention that additional intense education to not only be good at it, but to understand why you are doing it, and what it is doing to the patient. So while we may be able to give medications, (1 skill) we have to understand each and every one, what it does, what it doesn't do, and what it does with other medications, when to give it and when not to, etc etc, you see my point. So there is a more complex difference between levels than 'a few skills'. This is not a personal issue, if some choose to make it so, that's your perogative. Some chose to continue their education, as did I. The primary reason was that I was no longer content being just a Basic. I have known some Basics in my career that have probably forgotten more than most will ever learn, but the truth was that they were limited in what they could accomplish on a patient due to their decision to reamin a Basic. We need to move on. Mike " The Ambulance Driver " Hatfield FF/AA (with a lot of edumikashun) From: [mailto: ]On Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work together like it or not... > > I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us mere > > EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. > > It wasn't Mike's decision. The decision was made for him by the State > Of Texas. I'm sorry you're taking it so personally. > > Again, this is not unique to EMS. Residents are " far superior " to > interns. Board certified attending physicians are " far superior " to > residents. If they weren't, a great many people would lack the > motivation to advance from their current status and we would have a > hundred times as many GP's as we do board certified specialists. > > The only reason basic EMT's are the " life blood " of EMS is because the > current system allows it. If the system itself were to elevate its > game, that would not necessarily remain the case. But as long as > providers are allowed by law to staff with the cheaper basic EMT, they > will. > > Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 I have a new question then. How are we to ever come togather as a group, facing the challenges of the future of our careers if we can't even agree on what we are? We have to agree on a common ground. We must, or we are doomed to failure. Mike wrote: Apology accepted. Now go fetch my stretcher... Mike PS - Tongue in cheek, eh? > I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us mere EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. I am sorry for even suggesting that you might be an EMT or even have the same training as the rest of us. > > McGee, EMT-I > > Mike wrote: > No, my official certification patch has a star of life and the words > LICENSED PARAMEDIC. Texas has no law w.r.t. the letters after your > name, and I, like most others, use LP - or for more formal usages, > A.A.S, LP. > > Mike > > > > What lettering is on your official certification patch? What letters are you allowed by Texas law after your name? I believe the answer to both would be: EMT-P. Therefor you are still an EMT. > > > > > > > > Silsbee EMS wrote: > > Texas Department of Health > > Certifies that > > D. > > meets the requirements for > > Paramedic > > No EMT on there any place, that is this years certification that I have for the next 4 years if I don't do something wrong. I am looking at it I am not an EMT any more. expires 07/31/08, 4 years. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Re: Re: JUST A BASIC > > > > > > correction - the licensed paramedic documentation does not say EMT > > anywhere on it - patch, certificate or card. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > From my point of view, we are ALL EMT's. It doesn't matter if we are Basics, Intermediates, Paramedics, or Licensed Paramedics; all of our certifications read " Emergency Medical Technician, therefor we are all (at least in the public eye) EMT's. Just my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Live for today, tomarrow is not here yet and laugh at yourself often before someone else does. > > > > > > McGee, EMT-I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 , Could you tell me where I can find these studies regarding the basic trucks have a better survival rate? D. Stone > > > I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us > mere > > > EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. > > > > It wasn't Mike's decision. The decision was made for him by the > State > > Of Texas. I'm sorry you're taking it so personally. > > > > Again, this is not unique to EMS. Residents are " far superior " to > > interns. Board certified attending physicians are " far superior " to > > residents. If they weren't, a great many people would lack the > > motivation to advance from their current status and we would have a > > hundred times as many GP's as we do board certified specialists. > > > > The only reason basic EMT's are the " life blood " of EMS is because > the > > current system allows it. If the system itself were to elevate its > > game, that would not necessarily remain the case. But as long as > > providers are allowed by law to staff with the cheaper basic EMT, > they > > will. > > > > Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 , Could you tell me where I can find these studies regarding the basic trucks have a better survival rate? D. Stone > > > I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us > mere > > > EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. > > > > It wasn't Mike's decision. The decision was made for him by the > State > > Of Texas. I'm sorry you're taking it so personally. > > > > Again, this is not unique to EMS. Residents are " far superior " to > > interns. Board certified attending physicians are " far superior " to > > residents. If they weren't, a great many people would lack the > > motivation to advance from their current status and we would have a > > hundred times as many GP's as we do board certified specialists. > > > > The only reason basic EMT's are the " life blood " of EMS is because > the > > current system allows it. If the system itself were to elevate its > > game, that would not necessarily remain the case. But as long as > > providers are allowed by law to staff with the cheaper basic EMT, > they > > will. > > > > Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 > I have a new question then. How are we to ever come togather as a group, facing the challenges of the future of our careers if we can't even agree on what we are? We have to agree on a common ground. We must, or we are doomed to failure. > > > There is common ground. The simple fact of the matter is that there are different levels of pre-hospital providers with the higher levels having more responsibilities. How difficult is that to understand? -Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 From a legal and scope of practice point, yes. E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ Re: JUST A BASIC > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > together like it or not... > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with working together or not. > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Legal limited in application. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Re: JUST A BASIC OK, gotta wade in, I humbly consider myself to be an ambulance driver with an extensive, intense and ongoing pre-hospital education. Is this really that big of a deal? , while you may be correct in focusing on the difference being a 'few' skills, you failed to mention that additional intense education to not only be good at it, but to understand why you are doing it, and what it is doing to the patient. So while we may be able to give medications, (1 skill) we have to understand each and every one, what it does, what it doesn't do, and what it does with other medications, when to give it and when not to, etc etc, you see my point. So there is a more complex difference between levels than 'a few skills'. This is not a personal issue, if some choose to make it so, that's your perogative. Some chose to continue their education, as did I. The primary reason was that I was no longer content being just a Basic. I have known some Basics in my career that have probably forgotten more than most will ever learn, but the truth was that they were limited in what they could accomplish on a patient due to their decision to reamin a Basic. We need to move on. Mike " The Ambulance Driver " Hatfield FF/AA (with a lot of edumikashun) From: [mailto: ]On Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work together like it or not... > > I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us mere > > EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. > > It wasn't Mike's decision. The decision was made for him by the State > Of Texas. I'm sorry you're taking it so personally. > > Again, this is not unique to EMS. Residents are " far superior " to > interns. Board certified attending physicians are " far superior " to > residents. If they weren't, a great many people would lack the > motivation to advance from their current status and we would have a > hundred times as many GP's as we do board certified specialists. > > The only reason basic EMT's are the " life blood " of EMS is because the > current system allows it. If the system itself were to elevate its > game, that would not necessarily remain the case. But as long as > providers are allowed by law to staff with the cheaper basic EMT, they > will. > > Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Legal limited in application. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Re: JUST A BASIC OK, gotta wade in, I humbly consider myself to be an ambulance driver with an extensive, intense and ongoing pre-hospital education. Is this really that big of a deal? , while you may be correct in focusing on the difference being a 'few' skills, you failed to mention that additional intense education to not only be good at it, but to understand why you are doing it, and what it is doing to the patient. So while we may be able to give medications, (1 skill) we have to understand each and every one, what it does, what it doesn't do, and what it does with other medications, when to give it and when not to, etc etc, you see my point. So there is a more complex difference between levels than 'a few skills'. This is not a personal issue, if some choose to make it so, that's your perogative. Some chose to continue their education, as did I. The primary reason was that I was no longer content being just a Basic. I have known some Basics in my career that have probably forgotten more than most will ever learn, but the truth was that they were limited in what they could accomplish on a patient due to their decision to reamin a Basic. We need to move on. Mike " The Ambulance Driver " Hatfield FF/AA (with a lot of edumikashun) From: [mailto: ]On Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work together like it or not... > > I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us mere > > EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. > > It wasn't Mike's decision. The decision was made for him by the State > Of Texas. I'm sorry you're taking it so personally. > > Again, this is not unique to EMS. Residents are " far superior " to > interns. Board certified attending physicians are " far superior " to > residents. If they weren't, a great many people would lack the > motivation to advance from their current status and we would have a > hundred times as many GP's as we do board certified specialists. > > The only reason basic EMT's are the " life blood " of EMS is because the > current system allows it. If the system itself were to elevate its > game, that would not necessarily remain the case. But as long as > providers are allowed by law to staff with the cheaper basic EMT, they > will. > > Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 It is not l-ps being better than emt's it is some l-p being better than other people including md's this will never change it is universal and appears more in the higher educated groups. Live with it and go on with your own life and stop trying to change a cow turd in to a diamond it isn't going happen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Re: JUST A BASIC > > > correction - the licensed paramedic documentation does not say EMT > anywhere on it - patch, certificate or card. > > Mike > > > > From my point of view, we are ALL EMT's. It doesn't matter if we are Basics, Intermediates, Paramedics, or Licensed Paramedics; all of our certifications read " Emergency Medical Technician, therefor we are all (at least in the public eye) EMT's. Just my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > Live for today, tomarrow is not here yet and laugh at yourself often before someone else does. > > > > McGee, EMT-I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.