Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 -- other than p*ssing points, why does it matter at this point? While we may agree that an LP possesses EMT skills, that would be like saying that all doctors are PAs, just because PAs and DOs/MDs share some common skill sets. Let's move beyond the feel-good sayings and the platitudes and work towards advancing EMS as a profession. Rodney King-like sayings of " Can't we all just get along? " show the other health care professions only how little EMS has progressed. Why aren't we discussing IMPORTANT matters like recent clinical research? And for God's sake people -- use the spell-check before you send out our emails. Misspelled emails serve only to cheapen what miniscule modicum of respect that we do possess. Professionally yours, Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B Austin, Texas Re: JUST A BASIC > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > together like it or not... > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with working together or not. > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 -- other than p*ssing points, why does it matter at this point? While we may agree that an LP possesses EMT skills, that would be like saying that all doctors are PAs, just because PAs and DOs/MDs share some common skill sets. Let's move beyond the feel-good sayings and the platitudes and work towards advancing EMS as a profession. Rodney King-like sayings of " Can't we all just get along? " show the other health care professions only how little EMS has progressed. Why aren't we discussing IMPORTANT matters like recent clinical research? And for God's sake people -- use the spell-check before you send out our emails. Misspelled emails serve only to cheapen what miniscule modicum of respect that we do possess. Professionally yours, Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B Austin, Texas Re: JUST A BASIC > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > together like it or not... > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with working together or not. > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 -- other than p*ssing points, why does it matter at this point? While we may agree that an LP possesses EMT skills, that would be like saying that all doctors are PAs, just because PAs and DOs/MDs share some common skill sets. Let's move beyond the feel-good sayings and the platitudes and work towards advancing EMS as a profession. Rodney King-like sayings of " Can't we all just get along? " show the other health care professions only how little EMS has progressed. Why aren't we discussing IMPORTANT matters like recent clinical research? And for God's sake people -- use the spell-check before you send out our emails. Misspelled emails serve only to cheapen what miniscule modicum of respect that we do possess. Professionally yours, Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B Austin, Texas Re: JUST A BASIC > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > together like it or not... > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with working together or not. > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 I agree with you Wes. There are more important matters, but when one disregards the lessor points, we have where we are now. I'm still for removing the " leveling " aspect of EMS and creating whole new image for EMS providers. I think that will help to unify us. ex. Paramedic - the standard; Paramedic Intern - certified to complete OJT to meet the standard; Advanced Care Paramedic - a standard paramedic who goes above and beyond the standard in a certain accepted discipline relating to EMS -- has more autonomy. Mike _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ExLngHrn@... Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:59 PM To: Subject: Re: Re: JUST A BASIC -- other than p*ssing points, why does it matter at this point? While we may agree that an LP possesses EMT skills, that would be like saying that all doctors are PAs, just because PAs and DOs/MDs share some common skill sets. Let's move beyond the feel-good sayings and the platitudes and work towards advancing EMS as a profession. Rodney King-like sayings of " Can't we all just get along? " show the other health care professions only how little EMS has progressed. Why aren't we discussing IMPORTANT matters like recent clinical research? And for God's sake people -- use the spell-check before you send out our emails. Misspelled emails serve only to cheapen what miniscule modicum of respect that we do possess. Professionally yours, Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B Austin, Texas Re: JUST A BASIC > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > together like it or not... > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with working together or not. > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 I agree with you Wes. There are more important matters, but when one disregards the lessor points, we have where we are now. I'm still for removing the " leveling " aspect of EMS and creating whole new image for EMS providers. I think that will help to unify us. ex. Paramedic - the standard; Paramedic Intern - certified to complete OJT to meet the standard; Advanced Care Paramedic - a standard paramedic who goes above and beyond the standard in a certain accepted discipline relating to EMS -- has more autonomy. Mike _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ExLngHrn@... Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:59 PM To: Subject: Re: Re: JUST A BASIC -- other than p*ssing points, why does it matter at this point? While we may agree that an LP possesses EMT skills, that would be like saying that all doctors are PAs, just because PAs and DOs/MDs share some common skill sets. Let's move beyond the feel-good sayings and the platitudes and work towards advancing EMS as a profession. Rodney King-like sayings of " Can't we all just get along? " show the other health care professions only how little EMS has progressed. Why aren't we discussing IMPORTANT matters like recent clinical research? And for God's sake people -- use the spell-check before you send out our emails. Misspelled emails serve only to cheapen what miniscule modicum of respect that we do possess. Professionally yours, Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B Austin, Texas Re: JUST A BASIC > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > together like it or not... > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with working together or not. > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 I agree with you Wes. There are more important matters, but when one disregards the lessor points, we have where we are now. I'm still for removing the " leveling " aspect of EMS and creating whole new image for EMS providers. I think that will help to unify us. ex. Paramedic - the standard; Paramedic Intern - certified to complete OJT to meet the standard; Advanced Care Paramedic - a standard paramedic who goes above and beyond the standard in a certain accepted discipline relating to EMS -- has more autonomy. Mike _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ExLngHrn@... Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:59 PM To: Subject: Re: Re: JUST A BASIC -- other than p*ssing points, why does it matter at this point? While we may agree that an LP possesses EMT skills, that would be like saying that all doctors are PAs, just because PAs and DOs/MDs share some common skill sets. Let's move beyond the feel-good sayings and the platitudes and work towards advancing EMS as a profession. Rodney King-like sayings of " Can't we all just get along? " show the other health care professions only how little EMS has progressed. Why aren't we discussing IMPORTANT matters like recent clinical research? And for God's sake people -- use the spell-check before you send out our emails. Misspelled emails serve only to cheapen what miniscule modicum of respect that we do possess. Professionally yours, Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B Austin, Texas Re: JUST A BASIC > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > together like it or not... > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with working together or not. > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Wes had an interesting idea. If one could prove that they possessed the skill mastery of the basic skills, and the intermediate skills, and the paramedic skills, then given a paramedic level education, why shouldn't it be possible to become a paramedic (with the same training requirements as today, inclusive of the hours required to get the EMT-B, I and P certifications) directly, without ever actually possessing an EMT-B or EMT-I certification? We don't require doctors to be PA's first, or nurses to be CNA's first. Why do we require paramedics to be EMT's first? Mike > I agree with you Wes. There are more important matters, but when one > disregards the lessor points, we have where we are now. I'm still for > removing the " leveling " aspect of EMS and creating whole new image for EMS > providers. I think that will help to unify us. > > ex. Paramedic - the standard; Paramedic Intern - certified to complete OJT > to meet the standard; Advanced Care Paramedic - a standard paramedic who > goes above and beyond the standard in a certain accepted discipline relating > to EMS -- has more autonomy. > > Mike > > _____ > > From: [mailto: ] On > Behalf Of ExLngHrn@... > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:59 PM > To: > Subject: Re: Re: JUST A BASIC > > > -- other than p*ssing points, why does it matter at this point? > While we may agree that an LP possesses EMT skills, that would be like > saying that all doctors are PAs, just because PAs and DOs/MDs share some > common skill sets. > > Let's move beyond the feel-good sayings and the platitudes and work towards > advancing EMS as a profession. Rodney King-like sayings of " Can't we all > just get along? " show the other health care professions only how little EMS > has progressed. Why aren't we discussing IMPORTANT matters like recent > clinical research? > > And for God's sake people -- use the spell-check before you send out our > emails. Misspelled emails serve only to cheapen what miniscule modicum of > respect that we do possess. > > Professionally yours, > Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B > Austin, Texas > > Re: JUST A BASIC > > > > > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have > > Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. > The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the > increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A > perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. > The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs > can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > > > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > > together like it or not... > > > > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of > the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules > and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with > working together or not. > > > > > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa > > > > > > _____ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Wes had an interesting idea. If one could prove that they possessed the skill mastery of the basic skills, and the intermediate skills, and the paramedic skills, then given a paramedic level education, why shouldn't it be possible to become a paramedic (with the same training requirements as today, inclusive of the hours required to get the EMT-B, I and P certifications) directly, without ever actually possessing an EMT-B or EMT-I certification? We don't require doctors to be PA's first, or nurses to be CNA's first. Why do we require paramedics to be EMT's first? Mike > I agree with you Wes. There are more important matters, but when one > disregards the lessor points, we have where we are now. I'm still for > removing the " leveling " aspect of EMS and creating whole new image for EMS > providers. I think that will help to unify us. > > ex. Paramedic - the standard; Paramedic Intern - certified to complete OJT > to meet the standard; Advanced Care Paramedic - a standard paramedic who > goes above and beyond the standard in a certain accepted discipline relating > to EMS -- has more autonomy. > > Mike > > _____ > > From: [mailto: ] On > Behalf Of ExLngHrn@... > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:59 PM > To: > Subject: Re: Re: JUST A BASIC > > > -- other than p*ssing points, why does it matter at this point? > While we may agree that an LP possesses EMT skills, that would be like > saying that all doctors are PAs, just because PAs and DOs/MDs share some > common skill sets. > > Let's move beyond the feel-good sayings and the platitudes and work towards > advancing EMS as a profession. Rodney King-like sayings of " Can't we all > just get along? " show the other health care professions only how little EMS > has progressed. Why aren't we discussing IMPORTANT matters like recent > clinical research? > > And for God's sake people -- use the spell-check before you send out our > emails. Misspelled emails serve only to cheapen what miniscule modicum of > respect that we do possess. > > Professionally yours, > Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B > Austin, Texas > > Re: JUST A BASIC > > > > > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have > > Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. > The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the > increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A > perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. > The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs > can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > > > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > > together like it or not... > > > > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of > the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules > and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with > working together or not. > > > > > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa > > > > > > _____ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 This complete thread is stupid. It should not Evan be discussed the topic is mote paramedics are better trained medics. paramedics are not better humans . I am tired of the thread take it off line. Go hit some body . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: JUST A BASIC Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work together like it or not... > > I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us mere > > EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. > > It wasn't Mike's decision. The decision was made for him by the State > Of Texas. I'm sorry you're taking it so personally. > > Again, this is not unique to EMS. Residents are " far superior " to > interns. Board certified attending physicians are " far superior " to > residents. If they weren't, a great many people would lack the > motivation to advance from their current status and we would have a > hundred times as many GP's as we do board certified specialists. > > The only reason basic EMT's are the " life blood " of EMS is because the > current system allows it. If the system itself were to elevate its > game, that would not necessarily remain the case. But as long as > providers are allowed by law to staff with the cheaper basic EMT, they > will. > > Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 This complete thread is stupid. It should not Evan be discussed the topic is mote paramedics are better trained medics. paramedics are not better humans . I am tired of the thread take it off line. Go hit some body . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: JUST A BASIC Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work together like it or not... > > I give up. It is obvious that the LP's are far superior to us mere > > EMT's, and have decided to distance themselves from us. > > It wasn't Mike's decision. The decision was made for him by the State > Of Texas. I'm sorry you're taking it so personally. > > Again, this is not unique to EMS. Residents are " far superior " to > interns. Board certified attending physicians are " far superior " to > residents. If they weren't, a great many people would lack the > motivation to advance from their current status and we would have a > hundred times as many GP's as we do board certified specialists. > > The only reason basic EMT's are the " life blood " of EMS is because the > current system allows it. If the system itself were to elevate its > game, that would not necessarily remain the case. But as long as > providers are allowed by law to staff with the cheaper basic EMT, they > will. > > Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 It is not l-ps being better than emt's it is some l-p being better than other people including md's this will never change it is universal and appears more in the higher educated groups. Live with it and go on with your own life and stop trying to change a cow turd in to a diamond it isn't going happen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Re: JUST A BASIC > > > correction - the licensed paramedic documentation does not say EMT > anywhere on it - patch, certificate or card. > > Mike > > > > From my point of view, we are ALL EMT's. It doesn't matter if we are Basics, Intermediates, Paramedics, or Licensed Paramedics; all of our certifications read " Emergency Medical Technician, therefor we are all (at least in the public eye) EMT's. Just my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > Live for today, tomarrow is not here yet and laugh at yourself often before someone else does. > > > > McGee, EMT-I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Point well taken, Wes. ExLngHrn@... wrote: -- other than p*ssing points, why does it matter at this point? While we may agree that an LP possesses EMT skills, that would be like saying that all doctors are PAs, just because PAs and DOs/MDs share some common skill sets. Let's move beyond the feel-good sayings and the platitudes and work towards advancing EMS as a profession. Rodney King-like sayings of " Can't we all just get along? " show the other health care professions only how little EMS has progressed. Why aren't we discussing IMPORTANT matters like recent clinical research? And for God's sake people -- use the spell-check before you send out our emails. Misspelled emails serve only to cheapen what miniscule modicum of respect that we do possess. Professionally yours, Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B Austin, Texas Re: JUST A BASIC > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > together like it or not... > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with working together or not. > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 That is really cool, " he says as he pours a frosty cold one " ExLngHrn@... wrote: I'm not aware of a TexasBar-L type forum, no. Many of our discussions tend to be more academic and are covered in law reviews. As for social opportunities, there is a reason why it's called " the Bar. " (tongue firmly in cheek) -Wes In a message dated 6/13/2005 10:55:24 PM Central Daylight Time, summedic@... writes: Out of curiosity Wes, do all jurists agree most of the time? Is there a list where attorneys go to bitch, grip, and complain? Just wondering? McGee wrote: Point well taken, Wes. ExLngHrn@... wrote: -- other than p*ssing points, why does it matter at this point? While we may agree that an LP possesses EMT skills, that would be like saying that all doctors are PAs, just because PAs and DOs/MDs share some common skill sets. Let's move beyond the feel-good sayings and the platitudes and work towards advancing EMS as a profession. Rodney King-like sayings of " Can't we all just get along? " show the other health care professions only how little EMS has progressed. Why aren't we discussing IMPORTANT matters like recent clinical research? And for God's sake people -- use the spell-check before you send out our emails. Misspelled emails serve only to cheapen what miniscule modicum of respect that we do possess. Professionally yours, Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B Austin, Texas Re: JUST A BASIC > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > together like it or not... > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with working together or not. > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 > > I'm not aware of a TexasBar-L type forum, no. Many of our discussions tend > to be more academic and are covered in law reviews. As for social > opportunities, there is a reason why it's called " the Bar. " (tongue firmly in cheek) Socialite lawyers? I thought those were all in southern california... at least that's what I always see on tv! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 > > I'm not aware of a TexasBar-L type forum, no. Many of our discussions tend > to be more academic and are covered in law reviews. As for social > opportunities, there is a reason why it's called " the Bar. " (tongue firmly in cheek) Socialite lawyers? I thought those were all in southern california... at least that's what I always see on tv! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 > > I'm not aware of a TexasBar-L type forum, no. Many of our discussions tend > to be more academic and are covered in law reviews. As for social > opportunities, there is a reason why it's called " the Bar. " (tongue firmly in cheek) Socialite lawyers? I thought those were all in southern california... at least that's what I always see on tv! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 > Would, or should the " advanced care paramedic " be along the same lines as a field PA? Any thoughts? > > Somewhat along the lines yes, but more geared toward emergency medicine. -Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Something of the sort, or they could be something of a field expert in certain situations where autonomy matters (Wilderness/SAR, ICS EMS Group leaders, Hazard Mitigation experts, requirement for supervisory status, etc.). Who knows what it could bring. But, more importantly, what do you think? Mike _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of McGee Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:21 AM To: Subject: Re: Re: JUST A BASIC Would, or should the " advanced care paramedic " be along the same lines as a field PA? Any thoughts? " Alfonso R. Ochoa " wrote: > > ex. Paramedic - the standard; Paramedic Intern - certified to complete OJT > to meet the standard; Advanced Care Paramedic - a standard paramedic who > goes above and beyond the standard in a certain accepted discipline relating > to EMS -- has more autonomy. > This is the best idea I've read in a long time. I second this opinion. -Alfonso R. Ochoa --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Something of the sort, or they could be something of a field expert in certain situations where autonomy matters (Wilderness/SAR, ICS EMS Group leaders, Hazard Mitigation experts, requirement for supervisory status, etc.). Who knows what it could bring. But, more importantly, what do you think? Mike _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of McGee Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:21 AM To: Subject: Re: Re: JUST A BASIC Would, or should the " advanced care paramedic " be along the same lines as a field PA? Any thoughts? " Alfonso R. Ochoa " wrote: > > ex. Paramedic - the standard; Paramedic Intern - certified to complete OJT > to meet the standard; Advanced Care Paramedic - a standard paramedic who > goes above and beyond the standard in a certain accepted discipline relating > to EMS -- has more autonomy. > This is the best idea I've read in a long time. I second this opinion. -Alfonso R. Ochoa --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Something of the sort, or they could be something of a field expert in certain situations where autonomy matters (Wilderness/SAR, ICS EMS Group leaders, Hazard Mitigation experts, requirement for supervisory status, etc.). Who knows what it could bring. But, more importantly, what do you think? Mike _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of McGee Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:21 AM To: Subject: Re: Re: JUST A BASIC Would, or should the " advanced care paramedic " be along the same lines as a field PA? Any thoughts? " Alfonso R. Ochoa " wrote: > > ex. Paramedic - the standard; Paramedic Intern - certified to complete OJT > to meet the standard; Advanced Care Paramedic - a standard paramedic who > goes above and beyond the standard in a certain accepted discipline relating > to EMS -- has more autonomy. > This is the best idea I've read in a long time. I second this opinion. -Alfonso R. Ochoa --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Thank you Mike for your response. I did not intend to sound like I was advocating mindlessly following rote comands. I was only trying to state that we as a group share a common bond. A common thread, if you will, that binds us all togather as a group. I am advocating unification, not seperation. I want to see us all speak with one mighty voice, not seperated by our " superiority " over those classes we have passed. We are all EMT's, like it or not. It is how some of us view the word technician that seems to be at the root of this problem. The Merriam-Webster dictionary define technician as: tech·ni·cian Pronunciation: tek-'ni-sh & n Function: noun 1 : a specialist in the technical details of a subject or occupation <a computer technician> 2 : one who has acquired the technique of an art or other area of specialization <a superb technician and a musician of integrity -- Irving Kolodin> Wow, a specialist or one who has acquired the tschnique of an art, those sound pretty good to me. The American Heritage dictionary defines EMT as: emergency medical technician NOUN:abbr. EMT A person trained and certified to appraise and initiate the administration of emergency care for victims of trauma or acute illness before or during transportation of the victims to a health care facility via ambulance or aircraft. That sounds pretty good too. Come togather brothers and sisters, we need to stand togather and let the world hear our one unified voice. McGee, EMT-I Mike wrote: , I don't think that was the point. Officially, yes. A paramedic is an EMT-P. Fortunately, most paramedics that I know are striving to seperate themselves from the " technician " aspect. This also holds true to many other EMS providers (B's, I's and C's). The buzz phrase was " Try to be more of a CLINICIAN than a TECHNICIAN " . I think that's the point that many are trying to make. But, 's response was in fact directed at a post in which I asked about legal aspect of the " Licensed " Paramedic vs. the " Certified " Paramedic. I do not believe that he advocates algorithmic thoughtlessness over clinically-sound decision-making. Though, I will not speak for him. Mike _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of McGee Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:46 PM To: Subject: RE: Re: JUST A BASIC Thank you Dr. Bledsoe for your input in this topic. So, is my point still valid? Is an LP still an EMT-P, I think so, therefor they are still an EMT. McGee, EMT-I Bledsoe wrote: Certified. It was a smoke and mirrors thing by the TDH. There is no functional legal difference between an LP and an EMT-P. BEB E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy! http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ Re: JUST A BASIC > Well first of all whether or not the LP is this room think they are > better or not is not the point. If you would actually look at the > levels there is only the difference in a few skills. PS there have Stop and look at the whole picture instead of your myopic point of view. The difference might be a " few skills " as you put it, but do not forget the increased didactic and clinical hours. Those make all the difference. A perfect parallel in this discussion is the difference between LVNs and RNs. The skill base is basically the same, however, a RN told me once that " LVNs can teach the how, RNs can teach the why. " That makes all the difference. > been studies that show patients carried by BLS/ALS trucks( which are > two EMT/EMT-I's)have a better survial rate..... but LP are better > huh.... I have seen and worked with EMT's who could and have blown > away any LP on the street. There are good and back MEDICS at every > skill level and just because a person is happy at the level that they > achieved doesnt make anyone better or worse... WE all have to work > together like it or not... > There are good and bad people in any profession. The simple fact of the matter is the LP is considered a higher level of care by the rules and regulations of the State of Texas. It has nothing to do with working together or not. > > > -Alfonso R. Ochoa _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 McGee <summedic@y...> wrote: > You mean to tell me that they really aren't? Have you gotten a good look at Greta Van Susteren lately? Ugh! Whatever she spent on all that plastic surgery was a total waste. What about Gloria Allred? Would you hit that? Barf! Sorry... I digress. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 McGee <summedic@y...> wrote: > You mean to tell me that they really aren't? Have you gotten a good look at Greta Van Susteren lately? Ugh! Whatever she spent on all that plastic surgery was a total waste. What about Gloria Allred? Would you hit that? Barf! Sorry... I digress. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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