Re: Booth Testing vs. ABR

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thx for your response. Do you mind my asking,...what caused you to seek

an audiology exam for Jessie? Did you have concerns initially or was it

part of your initial medical work-up (recommended by your agency)? Or was

she a SN child with a hearing loss? I'm planning on writing a short article

for our agency's newsletter encouraging standard audiology testing. Perhaps

most Peds offices do basic testing. We see a GP, as most of the Peds in our

County were not taking new clients and I felt based on what I knew of them,

that the advantages of staying with our GP, outweighed the disadvantages of

trying to establish with a new Ped. That's so great that you discovered

your daughter's issues right away. Ellie was born in Korea and was in

foster care. Her foster mom said she was very clever and gave several

examples of things. Her monthly updates and pictures showed her doing

developmentally correct things. I guess I still have some guilt over not

figuring all this out sooner. Our son's foster family considered him part

of their family. That was so clear and I know that they would have brought

up any concerns. But Ellie's foster family, while wonderful, didn't strike

me as overly concerned with the day to day issues of our daugher. And being

our second child (with our first child being hyper verbal), I made a pact

with myself not to compare the two. Most who meet my son think he's 4 (he's

tall and extraordinarily verbal). And our beautiful, oh so mellow, Ellie is

very soft spoken (I do believe that,,, hearing impairment or not).. Talking

is just not her thing. She's got other, more important things to do, like

climb. She has never seemed frustrated by her lack of speech. And she's

such a love, it just breaks my heart to think what she's missed this past

year. That's what upsets me most. Not the current, permanent loss which I

of course, wish she didn't have. But it's the fact that she didn't hear

much of anything her first year with us. And her first 6 months, she heard

a diff. language. She's prob pretty confused right now. Thx so much for

sharing your daughter's story. I really appreciate it. Kind of got off

the subject track with my response here. Take good care.

Leigh

Proud mom to Jee Hoon (31 mo) and Elisha Sung Hee (17 mo), both

born in Korea

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thx for your response. Do you mind my asking,...what caused you to seek

an audiology exam for Jessie? Did you have concerns initially or was it

part of your initial medical work-up (recommended by your agency)? Or was

she a SN child with a hearing loss? I'm planning on writing a short article

for our agency's newsletter encouraging standard audiology testing. Perhaps

most Peds offices do basic testing. We see a GP, as most of the Peds in our

County were not taking new clients and I felt based on what I knew of them,

that the advantages of staying with our GP, outweighed the disadvantages of

trying to establish with a new Ped. That's so great that you discovered

your daughter's issues right away. Ellie was born in Korea and was in

foster care. Her foster mom said she was very clever and gave several

examples of things. Her monthly updates and pictures showed her doing

developmentally correct things. I guess I still have some guilt over not

figuring all this out sooner. Our son's foster family considered him part

of their family. That was so clear and I know that they would have brought

up any concerns. But Ellie's foster family, while wonderful, didn't strike

me as overly concerned with the day to day issues of our daugher. And being

our second child (with our first child being hyper verbal), I made a pact

with myself not to compare the two. Most who meet my son think he's 4 (he's

tall and extraordinarily verbal). And our beautiful, oh so mellow, Ellie is

very soft spoken (I do believe that,,, hearing impairment or not).. Talking

is just not her thing. She's got other, more important things to do, like

climb. She has never seemed frustrated by her lack of speech. And she's

such a love, it just breaks my heart to think what she's missed this past

year. That's what upsets me most. Not the current, permanent loss which I

of course, wish she didn't have. But it's the fact that she didn't hear

much of anything her first year with us. And her first 6 months, she heard

a diff. language. She's prob pretty confused right now. Thx so much for

sharing your daughter's story. I really appreciate it. Kind of got off

the subject track with my response here. Take good care.

Leigh

Proud mom to Jee Hoon (31 mo) and Elisha Sung Hee (17 mo), both

born in Korea

[Guest guest]

Leigh

I'm not an expert, but I will give you my take -- based on what I've learned in

the past 9 months or so.

I think that both the ABR and the booth tests are good tests but each has its

strengths and weaknesses and neither is perfect. I believe the ABR is limited in

terms of frequency range. Booth testing is more subjective but can measure a

wider frequency range and is a better indicator of " true " hearing ability. I

think that you need to look at both tests plus the parents imput to get the best

picture of where your child is at.

In my daughter Jessie's case, she first had a booth test very soon after I

adopted her from China. The booth test indicated a very severe to profound loss.

The audi was sure that it was a reliable test because she seemed to be fully

cooperating. We were then on the fast track for a CI, and even had temporary

aids based on the booth test. Two months later, she had an ABR that showed a

moderate loss. So, there was a huge difference in our case. This was due to the

fact that my daughter was not reacting much to anything, visual or auditory,

when she first came to me from the orphanage. The audi just misread her

reactions. Jessie has since been tested two more times in the booth and the

tests now confirm a moderate loss.

So, I think that you need to do all the testing available and each provides a

piece to the bigger puzzle of how well your child is hearing.

H.

Re: Booth Testing vs. ABR

Thx to everyone for all your great info on my last questions. I'm learning

so much and really appreciate it. Was hoping to ask one more basic

Q...It's recently been explained to me that while it's important to follow

booth testing with an ABR (in small children, maybe everyone?)..I've also

been told that the results should be about the same (give or take maybe 5-10

db?). That came from professionals..but mothers have told me that they've

seen radically different results between the two. What does that mean? I

know that it takes a skilled person (s) for both tests, to interpret, rule

out artifact noise on the ABR, etc.. But if both tests are done well and

supposed to provide similar results, why is there such a strong need to even

do the second test (ABR)? It sounds like they want collaboration of info so

that they can more accurately identify hearing aid needs? Will the ABR

provide some additional info to help collaborate the curve on the booth test

that the hearing loss is SN, and not conductive? Sorry for so many Q's..one

min. I think I understand and then find something that makes me question

everything. On a happy note, my daughter said her first word yesterday

(besides mama, which she's been saying for a few days now) and is just coming

alive and so much more responsive from behind even. I attribute this more

to complete lack of fluid in the middle ear than to anything else, but maybe

we are communicating with her a bit differently. It's just been wonderful.

Thx again for all your help.

Leigh

[Guest guest]

Leigh

I'm not an expert, but I will give you my take -- based on what I've learned in

the past 9 months or so.

I think that both the ABR and the booth tests are good tests but each has its

strengths and weaknesses and neither is perfect. I believe the ABR is limited in

terms of frequency range. Booth testing is more subjective but can measure a

wider frequency range and is a better indicator of " true " hearing ability. I

think that you need to look at both tests plus the parents imput to get the best

picture of where your child is at.

In my daughter Jessie's case, she first had a booth test very soon after I

adopted her from China. The booth test indicated a very severe to profound loss.

The audi was sure that it was a reliable test because she seemed to be fully

cooperating. We were then on the fast track for a CI, and even had temporary

aids based on the booth test. Two months later, she had an ABR that showed a

moderate loss. So, there was a huge difference in our case. This was due to the

fact that my daughter was not reacting much to anything, visual or auditory,

when she first came to me from the orphanage. The audi just misread her

reactions. Jessie has since been tested two more times in the booth and the

tests now confirm a moderate loss.

So, I think that you need to do all the testing available and each provides a

piece to the bigger puzzle of how well your child is hearing.

H.

Re: Booth Testing vs. ABR

Thx to everyone for all your great info on my last questions. I'm learning

so much and really appreciate it. Was hoping to ask one more basic

Q...It's recently been explained to me that while it's important to follow

booth testing with an ABR (in small children, maybe everyone?)..I've also

been told that the results should be about the same (give or take maybe 5-10

db?). That came from professionals..but mothers have told me that they've

seen radically different results between the two. What does that mean? I

know that it takes a skilled person (s) for both tests, to interpret, rule

out artifact noise on the ABR, etc.. But if both tests are done well and

supposed to provide similar results, why is there such a strong need to even

do the second test (ABR)? It sounds like they want collaboration of info so

that they can more accurately identify hearing aid needs? Will the ABR

provide some additional info to help collaborate the curve on the booth test

that the hearing loss is SN, and not conductive? Sorry for so many Q's..one

min. I think I understand and then find something that makes me question

everything. On a happy note, my daughter said her first word yesterday

(besides mama, which she's been saying for a few days now) and is just coming

alive and so much more responsive from behind even. I attribute this more

to complete lack of fluid in the middle ear than to anything else, but maybe

we are communicating with her a bit differently. It's just been wonderful.

Thx again for all your help.

Leigh

[Guest guest]

Hi Leigh

Jessie's situation is kind of unique. As you know, the adoption process is long

and filled with paperwork. After a long wait, Jessie and I were matched by the

Chinese Government agency that handles adoptions, and the paperwork was going

through the last and final steps and sign-offs. Just as the packet was being

prepared to be mailed, the caretakers at Jessie's orphanage noticed that she had

a problem hearing. They immediate made calls to track down the paperwork and my

agency got a call, notifying them of Jessie's hearing problems, on the very day

that the paperwork arrived in the USA. So, the agency called my to tell me that

I had been matched, but that Jessie had a " hearing issue " . There was very

limited and conflicting information. My agency, and the Chinese Office of

Adoption Affairs, both told me that I could refuse the match and that I would

get matched with another child and travel at the same time and without any

additional cost, if that is what I wanted. I never even considered this. I knew

that Jessie was meant to be mine, and whatever issues she had would be handled

as a family. So, I knew from the beginning that there was a problem and I had

everything lined up for testing as soon as she arrived home. The hearing issue

was an unexpected shock, and definitely concerned me, but I never questioned the

fact that we were meant to be a family. I guess I faced all the same fears and

sadness that everyone else does when they find out that there child has a

hearing loss, it's just that my daughter became mine in a different way than

some.

Jessie is doing great! She has Widex Sonic Devas (digital/programmable) aids and

is doing extremely well with them. She has had her hearing aids for almost 9

months and is understanding most of what is said to her and is signing and

saying many words. We use an audio-verbal approach, but sign as a bridge to

language. She started signing a couple of words and that grew, and now she is

saying many approximations of words and will attempt to repeat almost everything

that is said to her. She is wonderful and I just love to brag about her.

H.

From: bodegalee@...

To: Listen-Up

Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 9:16 PM

Subject: Re: Booth Testing vs. ABR

Hi

Thx for your response. Do you mind my asking,...what caused you to seek

an audiology exam for Jessie? Did you have concerns initially or was it

part of your initial medical work-up (recommended by your agency)? Or was

she a SN child with a hearing loss? I'm planning on writing a short article

for our agency's newsletter encouraging standard audiology testing. Perhaps

most Peds offices do basic testing. We see a GP, as most of the Peds in our

County were not taking new clients and I felt based on what I knew of them,

that the advantages of staying with our GP, outweighed the disadvantages of

trying to establish with a new Ped. That's so great that you discovered

your daughter's issues right away. Ellie was born in Korea and was in

foster care. Her foster mom said she was very clever and gave several

examples of things. Her monthly updates and pictures showed her doing

developmentally correct things. I guess I still have some guilt over not

figuring all this out sooner. Our son's foster family considered him part

of their family. That was so clear and I know that they would have brought

up any concerns. But Ellie's foster family, while wonderful, didn't strike

me as overly concerned with the day to day issues of our daugher. And being

our second child (with our first child being hyper verbal), I made a pact

with myself not to compare the two. Most who meet my son think he's 4 (he's

tall and extraordinarily verbal). And our beautiful, oh so mellow, Ellie is

very soft spoken (I do believe that,,, hearing impairment or not).. Talking

is just not her thing. She's got other, more important things to do, like

climb. She has never seemed frustrated by her lack of speech. And she's

such a love, it just breaks my heart to think what she's missed this past

year. That's what upsets me most. Not the current, permanent loss which I

of course, wish she didn't have. But it's the fact that she didn't hear

much of anything her first year with us. And her first 6 months, she heard

a diff. language. She's prob pretty confused right now. Thx so much for

sharing your daughter's story. I really appreciate it. Kind of got off

the subject track with my response here. Take good care.

Leigh

Proud mom to Jee Hoon (31 mo) and Elisha Sung Hee (17 mo), both

born in Korea

[Guest guest]

Hi Leigh

Jessie's situation is kind of unique. As you know, the adoption process is long

and filled with paperwork. After a long wait, Jessie and I were matched by the

Chinese Government agency that handles adoptions, and the paperwork was going

through the last and final steps and sign-offs. Just as the packet was being

prepared to be mailed, the caretakers at Jessie's orphanage noticed that she had

a problem hearing. They immediate made calls to track down the paperwork and my

agency got a call, notifying them of Jessie's hearing problems, on the very day

that the paperwork arrived in the USA. So, the agency called my to tell me that

I had been matched, but that Jessie had a " hearing issue " . There was very

limited and conflicting information. My agency, and the Chinese Office of

Adoption Affairs, both told me that I could refuse the match and that I would

get matched with another child and travel at the same time and without any

additional cost, if that is what I wanted. I never even considered this. I knew

that Jessie was meant to be mine, and whatever issues she had would be handled

as a family. So, I knew from the beginning that there was a problem and I had

everything lined up for testing as soon as she arrived home. The hearing issue

was an unexpected shock, and definitely concerned me, but I never questioned the

fact that we were meant to be a family. I guess I faced all the same fears and

sadness that everyone else does when they find out that there child has a

hearing loss, it's just that my daughter became mine in a different way than

some.

Jessie is doing great! She has Widex Sonic Devas (digital/programmable) aids and

is doing extremely well with them. She has had her hearing aids for almost 9

months and is understanding most of what is said to her and is signing and

saying many words. We use an audio-verbal approach, but sign as a bridge to

language. She started signing a couple of words and that grew, and now she is

saying many approximations of words and will attempt to repeat almost everything

that is said to her. She is wonderful and I just love to brag about her.

H.

From: bodegalee@...

To: Listen-Up

Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 9:16 PM

Subject: Re: Booth Testing vs. ABR

Hi

Thx for your response. Do you mind my asking,...what caused you to seek

an audiology exam for Jessie? Did you have concerns initially or was it

part of your initial medical work-up (recommended by your agency)? Or was

she a SN child with a hearing loss? I'm planning on writing a short article

for our agency's newsletter encouraging standard audiology testing. Perhaps

most Peds offices do basic testing. We see a GP, as most of the Peds in our

County were not taking new clients and I felt based on what I knew of them,

that the advantages of staying with our GP, outweighed the disadvantages of

trying to establish with a new Ped. That's so great that you discovered

your daughter's issues right away. Ellie was born in Korea and was in

foster care. Her foster mom said she was very clever and gave several

examples of things. Her monthly updates and pictures showed her doing

developmentally correct things. I guess I still have some guilt over not

figuring all this out sooner. Our son's foster family considered him part

of their family. That was so clear and I know that they would have brought

up any concerns. But Ellie's foster family, while wonderful, didn't strike

me as overly concerned with the day to day issues of our daugher. And being

our second child (with our first child being hyper verbal), I made a pact

with myself not to compare the two. Most who meet my son think he's 4 (he's

tall and extraordinarily verbal). And our beautiful, oh so mellow, Ellie is

very soft spoken (I do believe that,,, hearing impairment or not).. Talking

is just not her thing. She's got other, more important things to do, like

climb. She has never seemed frustrated by her lack of speech. And she's

such a love, it just breaks my heart to think what she's missed this past

year. That's what upsets me most. Not the current, permanent loss which I

of course, wish she didn't have. But it's the fact that she didn't hear

much of anything her first year with us. And her first 6 months, she heard

a diff. language. She's prob pretty confused right now. Thx so much for

sharing your daughter's story. I really appreciate it. Kind of got off

the subject track with my response here. Take good care.

Leigh

Proud mom to Jee Hoon (31 mo) and Elisha Sung Hee (17 mo), both

born in Korea