RE: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

[Guest guest]

It's the june 1999 issue of emergency medical services magazine. The

front cover has a tug of war with firefighters and medics on it.

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Re: Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

, Could you direct me to the JEMS article or post it to the list.

Shiplet, LP

Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

>

>

>

> Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

>

> Kenny Navarro

> (No opinion, one way or another)

>

>

>

>>

>> What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

>> Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

>> replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

> with

>> the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

>> states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

> go.

>> Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

> miles.

>> Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

> there

>> calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

>> unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

>> greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

>> Thanks.

>>

>> R EMT-P

>> www.parisems.com

>> www.theparisnews.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's the june 1999 issue of emergency medical services magazine. The

front cover has a tug of war with firefighters and medics on it.

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Re: Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

, Could you direct me to the JEMS article or post it to the list.

Shiplet, LP

Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

>

>

>

> Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

>

> Kenny Navarro

> (No opinion, one way or another)

>

>

>

>>

>> What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

>> Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

>> replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

> with

>> the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

>> states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

> go.

>> Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

> miles.

>> Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

> there

>> calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

>> unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

>> greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

>> Thanks.

>>

>> R EMT-P

>> www.parisems.com

>> www.theparisnews.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's the june 1999 issue of emergency medical services magazine. The

front cover has a tug of war with firefighters and medics on it.

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Re: Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

, Could you direct me to the JEMS article or post it to the list.

Shiplet, LP

Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

>

>

>

> Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

>

> Kenny Navarro

> (No opinion, one way or another)

>

>

>

>>

>> What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

>> Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

>> replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

> with

>> the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

>> states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

> go.

>> Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

> miles.

>> Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

> there

>> calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

>> unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

>> greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

>> Thanks.

>>

>> R EMT-P

>> www.parisems.com

>> www.theparisnews.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm going to have to beg to differ on that. Fire departments get called

a lot more frequently the more people have smoke detectors. They get

called when they go off. If a city has 100,000 homes with 10,000 of them

have smoke detectors they are going to get a whole lot less smoke

detector calls than a city with 100,000 homes with 90,000 of them having

smoke detectors.

Don't read between the lines here.. I believe in them and have seen them

save lives.

Same thing with sprinklers. A city where every warehouse and large

building is sprinklered is going to have more false sprinklers (and

real) calls because there are more heads that get knocked off with

forklifts,etc !!

Even cities with very few sprinklered bldg have more ems than fire calls

because more people get sick or injured than have fires

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

Kenny Navarro

(No opinion, one way or another)

>

> What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

> Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

> replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

with

> the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

> states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

go.

> Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

miles.

> Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

there

> calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

> unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

> greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

> Thanks.

>

> R EMT-P

> www.parisems.com

> www.theparisnews.com

[Guest guest]

I'm going to have to beg to differ on that. Fire departments get called

a lot more frequently the more people have smoke detectors. They get

called when they go off. If a city has 100,000 homes with 10,000 of them

have smoke detectors they are going to get a whole lot less smoke

detector calls than a city with 100,000 homes with 90,000 of them having

smoke detectors.

Don't read between the lines here.. I believe in them and have seen them

save lives.

Same thing with sprinklers. A city where every warehouse and large

building is sprinklered is going to have more false sprinklers (and

real) calls because there are more heads that get knocked off with

forklifts,etc !!

Even cities with very few sprinklered bldg have more ems than fire calls

because more people get sick or injured than have fires

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

Kenny Navarro

(No opinion, one way or another)

>

> What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

> Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

> replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

with

> the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

> states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

go.

> Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

miles.

> Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

there

> calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

> unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

> greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

> Thanks.

>

> R EMT-P

> www.parisems.com

> www.theparisnews.com

[Guest guest]

I'm going to have to beg to differ on that. Fire departments get called

a lot more frequently the more people have smoke detectors. They get

called when they go off. If a city has 100,000 homes with 10,000 of them

have smoke detectors they are going to get a whole lot less smoke

detector calls than a city with 100,000 homes with 90,000 of them having

smoke detectors.

Don't read between the lines here.. I believe in them and have seen them

save lives.

Same thing with sprinklers. A city where every warehouse and large

building is sprinklered is going to have more false sprinklers (and

real) calls because there are more heads that get knocked off with

forklifts,etc !!

Even cities with very few sprinklered bldg have more ems than fire calls

because more people get sick or injured than have fires

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

Kenny Navarro

(No opinion, one way or another)

>

> What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

> Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

> replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

with

> the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

> states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

go.

> Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

miles.

> Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

there

> calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

> unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

> greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

> Thanks.

>

> R EMT-P

> www.parisems.com

> www.theparisnews.com

[Guest guest]

I didn't feel that I got an adequate answer when I asked them that VERY

question. Apparently, they are satisfied with an external attack, or (I'm

speculating) they rely on assistance, at least initially, from Paramount Safety

/ Security.

" Dogs are not our whole lives, but they make our lives whole. "

Larry RN LP

-- T68b@... wrote:

In a message dated 3/10/2005 9:37:23 PM Central Daylight Time,

lanelson1@... writes:

L.A. County Station 51 at the Universal Studio operates a Class A pumper and

a squad as a tandem unit (2+2). The squad handles medical, accidents, and

roves the property. In the event of a fire, the Class A and the Squad respond

together. IF it is a minor fire, the squad has a pump and tank to handle it. If

it is serious enough they can bring in the large lines from the Class A.

Question for you here---what if the squad is committed on an EMS assist, this

then leaves the pumper 2 man, at least initially, for first response into a

fire scene. Thus, our particular need for additional manpower...without

leaving a pumper crew without adequate personnel.

Kathi

[Guest guest]

I didn't feel that I got an adequate answer when I asked them that VERY

question. Apparently, they are satisfied with an external attack, or (I'm

speculating) they rely on assistance, at least initially, from Paramount Safety

/ Security.

" Dogs are not our whole lives, but they make our lives whole. "

Larry RN LP

-- T68b@... wrote:

In a message dated 3/10/2005 9:37:23 PM Central Daylight Time,

lanelson1@... writes:

L.A. County Station 51 at the Universal Studio operates a Class A pumper and

a squad as a tandem unit (2+2). The squad handles medical, accidents, and

roves the property. In the event of a fire, the Class A and the Squad respond

together. IF it is a minor fire, the squad has a pump and tank to handle it. If

it is serious enough they can bring in the large lines from the Class A.

Question for you here---what if the squad is committed on an EMS assist, this

then leaves the pumper 2 man, at least initially, for first response into a

fire scene. Thus, our particular need for additional manpower...without

leaving a pumper crew without adequate personnel.

Kathi

[Guest guest]

I didn't feel that I got an adequate answer when I asked them that VERY

question. Apparently, they are satisfied with an external attack, or (I'm

speculating) they rely on assistance, at least initially, from Paramount Safety

/ Security.

" Dogs are not our whole lives, but they make our lives whole. "

Larry RN LP

-- T68b@... wrote:

In a message dated 3/10/2005 9:37:23 PM Central Daylight Time,

lanelson1@... writes:

L.A. County Station 51 at the Universal Studio operates a Class A pumper and

a squad as a tandem unit (2+2). The squad handles medical, accidents, and

roves the property. In the event of a fire, the Class A and the Squad respond

together. IF it is a minor fire, the squad has a pump and tank to handle it. If

it is serious enough they can bring in the large lines from the Class A.

Question for you here---what if the squad is committed on an EMS assist, this

then leaves the pumper 2 man, at least initially, for first response into a

fire scene. Thus, our particular need for additional manpower...without

leaving a pumper crew without adequate personnel.

Kathi

[Guest guest]

Contact me off list if you are interested in any more information. I have done

quite a bit of research in the past 10 years on this subject.

You may want to do some research on the following cities that were FD based and

went to a 3rd service, or some cities that were 3rd service and now have

problems after merging with a fire department:

Louisville, KY - FD replace by a 3rd service in 2005

Lincoln Neb - 3rd service replaced by FD then went back to 3rd service

San Francisco CA - was 3rd service replaced by FD CT/DR went to 3rd service

with FD administration after many problems with merger

New York City - 3rd service replaced by FD largest merger ever (left no one

happy - neither FD or former 3rd service members) 75% of coverage by 3rd

service prior to merger, today only 50%, rest by hospital owned units or

private services with 911 contracts. Original plan by FD to create

battalion based units with EMS housed in stations vs ssm street corners was

eliminated after merger. Unpublished document by former NYC*EMS medic

" FDNY hostile takeover not a merger " is a good source for reasons why this

merger has not been successful.

Tallahassee FL - was hospital based - decided to go 3rd service vs FD

Austin TX - continues to be a 3rd service despite several attempts by FD to

merge.

Pittsburgh PA - continues to be a 3rd service despite attempts by FD to merge

or transfer services to hospitals

Baton Rouge LA - continues to be a 3rd service despite attempt by FD to merge

(FD union rep reported to state that the only reason for the merger was to

eliminate cuts in FD budget and to increase union membership - no other

reason, like improving patient care was a consideration)

While there are a few examples of successful mergers (St Louis) the larger

mergers (NYC, San Francisco) left very few people on both sides happy.

Last item to consider : if it isn't broke why fix it.

ajl

3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics, with

the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to go.

Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq. miles.

Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of there

calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

Thanks.

R EMT-P

www.parisems.com

www.theparisnews.com

[Guest guest]

I would attribute it to EMS should be running the Fire Department.

Henry

L wrote:

> While this is a matter of semantics, there is truth to the fact that while

> technically smoke detectors, sprinkler systems and strict building codes do

> not physically prevent fires what they are responsible for is early

> notification and/or control of very small fires to the extent that FD's do

> not get called as frequently as in the past. If you would poll the Fire

> based EMS agencies you represent they will all tell you that on the average

> between 75-85% of their responses are EMS related and not fire related. So

> what would you attribute this to?

>

> Lee

>

> Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

>

> Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

>

> Kenny Navarro

> (No opinion, one way or another)

>

>

> >

> > What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

> > Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

> > replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

> with

> > the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

> > states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

> go.

> > Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

> miles.

> > Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

> there

> > calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

> > unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

> > greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

> > Thanks.

> >

> > R EMT-P

> > www.parisems.com

> > www.theparisnews.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would attribute it to EMS should be running the Fire Department.

Henry

L wrote:

> While this is a matter of semantics, there is truth to the fact that while

> technically smoke detectors, sprinkler systems and strict building codes do

> not physically prevent fires what they are responsible for is early

> notification and/or control of very small fires to the extent that FD's do

> not get called as frequently as in the past. If you would poll the Fire

> based EMS agencies you represent they will all tell you that on the average

> between 75-85% of their responses are EMS related and not fire related. So

> what would you attribute this to?

>

> Lee

>

> Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

>

> Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

>

> Kenny Navarro

> (No opinion, one way or another)

>

>

> >

> > What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

> > Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

> > replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

> with

> > the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

> > states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

> go.

> > Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

> miles.

> > Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

> there

> > calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

> > unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

> > greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

> > Thanks.

> >

> > R EMT-P

> > www.parisems.com

> > www.theparisnews.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

there is a lot of truth to the statement: " we are an EMS service that

occasionally fights fires "

Lee

Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

>>

>> Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

>>

>> Kenny Navarro

>> (No opinion, one way or another)

>>

>>

>> >

>> > What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

>> > Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

>> > replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

>> with

>> > the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

>> > states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

>> go.

>> > Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

>> miles.

>> > Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

>> there

>> > calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

>> > unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

>> > greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

>> > Thanks.

>> >

>> > R EMT-P

>> > www.parisems.com

>> > www.theparisnews.com

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

there is a lot of truth to the statement: " we are an EMS service that

occasionally fights fires "

Lee

Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

>>

>> Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

>>

>> Kenny Navarro

>> (No opinion, one way or another)

>>

>>

>> >

>> > What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

>> > Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

>> > replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

>> with

>> > the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

>> > states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

>> go.

>> > Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

>> miles.

>> > Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

>> there

>> > calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

>> > unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

>> > greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

>> > Thanks.

>> >

>> > R EMT-P

>> > www.parisems.com

>> > www.theparisnews.com

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

there is a lot of truth to the statement: " we are an EMS service that

occasionally fights fires "

Lee

Re: 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems

>>

>> Fasten your seat belts... this is about to be a bumpy ride!

>>

>> Kenny Navarro

>> (No opinion, one way or another)

>>

>>

>> >

>> > What is everybody thoughts on 3rd City service vs. fire-based ems.

>> > Our newly hired city manager wants to let x9 Paramedics go and

>> > replace them with ff/emt. Currently our dept. has 21 Paramedics,

>> with

>> > the thought of losing 9. The local fire dept. association/union

>> > states in the local paper today that fire-based ems is the way to

>> go.

>> > Our dept. ran approx. 8000 calls last year, covering 930 sq.

>> miles.

>> > Our local fire dept runs approx. 1600 calls, with majority of

>> there

>> > calls responding with EMS. The fd responds to all cardiac arrest,

>> > unknown, or unconscious as first responders. Any input would be

>> > greayl helpful on the fire-based ems vs. 3rd city service issue.

>> > Thanks.

>> >

>> > R EMT-P

>> > www.parisems.com

>> > www.theparisnews.com

>>

>>

>>