Re: The copper mystery deepens

[Guest guest]

Yeah I might be able to shed some light on that.

Shampoo - some shampoos have copper in them. I know this because i had

a test recently with high copper and when i checked the ingredients

listing it listed copper sulphate as one of the ingredients. I've

since seen copper peptides listed as ingredients in other shampoo's.

I suspect my previous high hair copper result was probably caused by

the same thing. This would explain then why my serum copper and

ceruloplasm were normal despite high hair copper !

-CCL

>

> Hi,

>

> I posted here that I have had DDI hair tests showing high copper

> (76-140) for the last 4 years. I just got my first ever RBC Elements

> test results, which show my copper in the low red (bottom 2.5

> percentile). I have no idea what to conclude about this. I have

> followed Andy's copper reduction suggestions for about 1.5 years now,

> so my body copper could qenuinely be low and my hair contaminated

> somehow. (I don't swim or use a hot tub and I've checked my shower

> water.) Or my hair copper might reflect some body burden that does

> not show up in my red blood cells. I have done another more recent

> hair test and a blood draw for ceruloplasmin recently, but don't have

> results yet. I have confirmed that I excrete copper in my stool both

> when I am chelating with ALA and when I am not chelating at all. The

> amount is virtually the same when chelating and not. Because I do

> excrete copper in my stool, I think I can rule out 's disease.

>

> Does anyone have any insights into this? I was scheduled to take my 9

> yo autistic daughter (whose hair copper has reached 2,000) to see

> on the 16th. I just called to see if she could take me

> as a patient, too. Maybe she will have more answers.

>

> W.

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah I might be able to shed some light on that.

Shampoo - some shampoos have copper in them. I know this because i had

a test recently with high copper and when i checked the ingredients

listing it listed copper sulphate as one of the ingredients. I've

since seen copper peptides listed as ingredients in other shampoo's.

I suspect my previous high hair copper result was probably caused by

the same thing. This would explain then why my serum copper and

ceruloplasm were normal despite high hair copper !

-CCL

>

> Hi,

>

> I posted here that I have had DDI hair tests showing high copper

> (76-140) for the last 4 years. I just got my first ever RBC Elements

> test results, which show my copper in the low red (bottom 2.5

> percentile). I have no idea what to conclude about this. I have

> followed Andy's copper reduction suggestions for about 1.5 years now,

> so my body copper could qenuinely be low and my hair contaminated

> somehow. (I don't swim or use a hot tub and I've checked my shower

> water.) Or my hair copper might reflect some body burden that does

> not show up in my red blood cells. I have done another more recent

> hair test and a blood draw for ceruloplasmin recently, but don't have

> results yet. I have confirmed that I excrete copper in my stool both

> when I am chelating with ALA and when I am not chelating at all. The

> amount is virtually the same when chelating and not. Because I do

> excrete copper in my stool, I think I can rule out 's disease.

>

> Does anyone have any insights into this? I was scheduled to take my 9

> yo autistic daughter (whose hair copper has reached 2,000) to see

> on the 16th. I just called to see if she could take me

> as a patient, too. Maybe she will have more answers.

>

> W.

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah I might be able to shed some light on that.

Shampoo - some shampoos have copper in them. I know this because i had

a test recently with high copper and when i checked the ingredients

listing it listed copper sulphate as one of the ingredients. I've

since seen copper peptides listed as ingredients in other shampoo's.

I suspect my previous high hair copper result was probably caused by

the same thing. This would explain then why my serum copper and

ceruloplasm were normal despite high hair copper !

-CCL

>

> Hi,

>

> I posted here that I have had DDI hair tests showing high copper

> (76-140) for the last 4 years. I just got my first ever RBC Elements

> test results, which show my copper in the low red (bottom 2.5

> percentile). I have no idea what to conclude about this. I have

> followed Andy's copper reduction suggestions for about 1.5 years now,

> so my body copper could qenuinely be low and my hair contaminated

> somehow. (I don't swim or use a hot tub and I've checked my shower

> water.) Or my hair copper might reflect some body burden that does

> not show up in my red blood cells. I have done another more recent

> hair test and a blood draw for ceruloplasmin recently, but don't have

> results yet. I have confirmed that I excrete copper in my stool both

> when I am chelating with ALA and when I am not chelating at all. The

> amount is virtually the same when chelating and not. Because I do

> excrete copper in my stool, I think I can rule out 's disease.

>

> Does anyone have any insights into this? I was scheduled to take my 9

> yo autistic daughter (whose hair copper has reached 2,000) to see

> on the 16th. I just called to see if she could take me

> as a patient, too. Maybe she will have more answers.

>

> W.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> I posted here that I have had DDI hair tests showing high copper

> (76-140) for the last 4 years. I just got my first ever RBC Elements

> test results, which show my copper in the low red (bottom 2.5

> percentile). I have no idea what to conclude about this. I have

> followed Andy's copper reduction suggestions for about 1.5 years now,

> so my body copper could qenuinely be low and my hair contaminated

> somehow. (I don't swim or use a hot tub and I've checked my shower

> water.) Or my hair copper might reflect some body burden that does

> not show up in my red blood cells. I have done another more recent

> hair test and a blood draw for ceruloplasmin recently, but don't have

> results yet. I have confirmed that I excrete copper in my stool both

> when I am chelating with ALA and when I am not chelating at all. The

> amount is virtually the same when chelating and not. Because I do

> excrete copper in my stool, I think I can rule out 's disease.

>

> Does anyone have any insights into this? I was scheduled to take my 9

> yo autistic daughter (whose hair copper has reached 2,000) to see

> on the 16th. I just called to see if she could take me

> as a patient, too. Maybe she will have more answers.

-----------Hi . Sorry I'm not any help on the copper issue, but I just

wanted to say that if you're traveling all that way to go see anyway (you

live in Florida, right?), I would certainly try to get an appointment for

yourself also. And please let us know how it goes and what you think of her, or

email me privately about it, because I may consider going to her myself, if this

new doctor doesn't work out. Thanks and good luck!--------Jackie

>

> W.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> I posted here that I have had DDI hair tests showing high copper

> (76-140) for the last 4 years. I just got my first ever RBC Elements

> test results, which show my copper in the low red (bottom 2.5

> percentile). I have no idea what to conclude about this. I have

> followed Andy's copper reduction suggestions for about 1.5 years now,

> so my body copper could qenuinely be low and my hair contaminated

> somehow. (I don't swim or use a hot tub and I've checked my shower

> water.) Or my hair copper might reflect some body burden that does

> not show up in my red blood cells. I have done another more recent

> hair test and a blood draw for ceruloplasmin recently, but don't have

> results yet. I have confirmed that I excrete copper in my stool both

> when I am chelating with ALA and when I am not chelating at all. The

> amount is virtually the same when chelating and not. Because I do

> excrete copper in my stool, I think I can rule out 's disease.

>

> Does anyone have any insights into this? I was scheduled to take my 9

> yo autistic daughter (whose hair copper has reached 2,000) to see

> on the 16th. I just called to see if she could take me

> as a patient, too. Maybe she will have more answers.

-----------Hi . Sorry I'm not any help on the copper issue, but I just

wanted to say that if you're traveling all that way to go see anyway (you

live in Florida, right?), I would certainly try to get an appointment for

yourself also. And please let us know how it goes and what you think of her, or

email me privately about it, because I may consider going to her myself, if this

new doctor doesn't work out. Thanks and good luck!--------Jackie

>

> W.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> I posted here that I have had DDI hair tests showing high copper

> (76-140) for the last 4 years. I just got my first ever RBC Elements

> test results, which show my copper in the low red (bottom 2.5

> percentile). I have no idea what to conclude about this. I have

> followed Andy's copper reduction suggestions for about 1.5 years now,

> so my body copper could qenuinely be low and my hair contaminated

> somehow. (I don't swim or use a hot tub and I've checked my shower

> water.) Or my hair copper might reflect some body burden that does

> not show up in my red blood cells. I have done another more recent

> hair test and a blood draw for ceruloplasmin recently, but don't have

> results yet. I have confirmed that I excrete copper in my stool both

> when I am chelating with ALA and when I am not chelating at all. The

> amount is virtually the same when chelating and not. Because I do

> excrete copper in my stool, I think I can rule out 's disease.

>

> Does anyone have any insights into this? I was scheduled to take my 9

> yo autistic daughter (whose hair copper has reached 2,000) to see

> on the 16th. I just called to see if she could take me

> as a patient, too. Maybe she will have more answers.

-----------Hi . Sorry I'm not any help on the copper issue, but I just

wanted to say that if you're traveling all that way to go see anyway (you

live in Florida, right?), I would certainly try to get an appointment for

yourself also. And please let us know how it goes and what you think of her, or

email me privately about it, because I may consider going to her myself, if this

new doctor doesn't work out. Thanks and good luck!--------Jackie

>

> W.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Shampoo - some shampoos have copper in them.

My shampoo has:

Water, Sodium Myreth Sulfate, Wheat Germamidopropyl Betaine, Chamomile

Extract, Jojoba Oil, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Panthenol, Potassium

Sorbate, Sodium Hydroxymethlyglucinate, Lactic Acid

My daughter's shampoo has:

Aloe Vera, 100% Decyl Polyglucose (extracts of corn, coconut & palm

oil)., Vitamin E, Vegetable Glycerin, Citrus Seed Extract, Very Small

Amt. (.15%, this is less than 1/4 of 1%), Of food grade

methyl/propylparaben

Her conditioner has:

Water, Nettle Extract, Burdock

Extract, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Glyceryl

Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Jojoba Oil, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein,

Panthenol, Tocopherol, Potassium Sorbate, Phenoxyethanol, Citric

Acid

I don't see anything in any of them that obviously would add copper to

hair. Do you? I know soy and whole grain products are high copper,

but it is hard to believe there is enough in there to make a difference.

W.

[Guest guest]

>

> Shampoo - some shampoos have copper in them.

My shampoo has:

Water, Sodium Myreth Sulfate, Wheat Germamidopropyl Betaine, Chamomile

Extract, Jojoba Oil, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Panthenol, Potassium

Sorbate, Sodium Hydroxymethlyglucinate, Lactic Acid

My daughter's shampoo has:

Aloe Vera, 100% Decyl Polyglucose (extracts of corn, coconut & palm

oil)., Vitamin E, Vegetable Glycerin, Citrus Seed Extract, Very Small

Amt. (.15%, this is less than 1/4 of 1%), Of food grade

methyl/propylparaben

Her conditioner has:

Water, Nettle Extract, Burdock

Extract, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Glyceryl

Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Jojoba Oil, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein,

Panthenol, Tocopherol, Potassium Sorbate, Phenoxyethanol, Citric

Acid

I don't see anything in any of them that obviously would add copper to

hair. Do you? I know soy and whole grain products are high copper,

but it is hard to believe there is enough in there to make a difference.

W.

[Guest guest]

> Does Any not suggest doing these tests for copper:

> 1.. Red Blood Cell copper

> 2.. Urine copper (not serum copper)

> 3.. Serum ceruloplasmin test.

> And people with 's don't excrete copper and could have low

copper in hair, so you could check excretion by doing a faecal copper

test.

From Hair Test Interpretation, pg. 115:

" In 's disease hair copper is variously reported as either low

or normal... "

" Blood copper levels are actively controlled by the body for various

reasons and do not increase due to copper toxicity until highly toxic

levels are reached in other tissues and a life threatening crisis is

imminent. Blood copper levels do however go up and down substantially

in response to inflammatory processes. Hair copper is fairly reliable

as an indicator of body copper levels but blood copper is irrelevant.

Urine copper levels are also of little meaning and can only be

considered significant when someone collects a timed (e.g. 24 hour)

urine specimin and is not taking any sort of chelating or copper

mobilizing agents.

Blood copper levels (red blood cell, serum, plasma) are elevated by

the mineral transport derangement characteristic of mercury poisoning,

and also by anything such as infection or allergy that causes

inflammation. Birth control pills and cancer also elevate blood

copper. High blood copper levels do not necessarily mean toxicity, it

is only reasonable to be concerned when blood or red blood cell copper

levels are well outside the normal range (much greater than 97.5th

percentile on reports presented that way). "

In Amalgam Illness, pg 117:

" In 's disease, hair, urine and RBC copper will be greatly

elevated, but serum copper and serum ceruloplasmin will be low. "

In AI, pg. 66:

" It is well worth checking RBC copper, hair copper, and urine copper

if corresponding tests for other elements are to be performed. Serum

copper and ceruloplasmin are not informative tests as they are normal

in many of the more common forms of copper poisoning even though they

are low in 's disease. "

In this message Andy advises not to do a stool test to see ALA's

effects on copper excretion (something that he did recommend in

Amalgam Illness):

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/38589

This says a bit about urine and serum and cell (RBC?) copper:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/58565

Here is a message on the Autism-Mercury group that I wrote to collect

messages with Andy's copper advice:

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/167484.html

I wish I knew what to do about all this. Andy's thinking on copper

has evolved between Amalgam Illness and Hair Test Interpretation and

perhaps even since HTI. What I mainly get out of all this is that

hair testing is the main thing to look at.

W.

[Guest guest]

> Does Any not suggest doing these tests for copper:

> 1.. Red Blood Cell copper

> 2.. Urine copper (not serum copper)

> 3.. Serum ceruloplasmin test.

> And people with 's don't excrete copper and could have low

copper in hair, so you could check excretion by doing a faecal copper

test.

From Hair Test Interpretation, pg. 115:

" In 's disease hair copper is variously reported as either low

or normal... "

" Blood copper levels are actively controlled by the body for various

reasons and do not increase due to copper toxicity until highly toxic

levels are reached in other tissues and a life threatening crisis is

imminent. Blood copper levels do however go up and down substantially

in response to inflammatory processes. Hair copper is fairly reliable

as an indicator of body copper levels but blood copper is irrelevant.

Urine copper levels are also of little meaning and can only be

considered significant when someone collects a timed (e.g. 24 hour)

urine specimin and is not taking any sort of chelating or copper

mobilizing agents.

Blood copper levels (red blood cell, serum, plasma) are elevated by

the mineral transport derangement characteristic of mercury poisoning,

and also by anything such as infection or allergy that causes

inflammation. Birth control pills and cancer also elevate blood

copper. High blood copper levels do not necessarily mean toxicity, it

is only reasonable to be concerned when blood or red blood cell copper

levels are well outside the normal range (much greater than 97.5th

percentile on reports presented that way). "

In Amalgam Illness, pg 117:

" In 's disease, hair, urine and RBC copper will be greatly

elevated, but serum copper and serum ceruloplasmin will be low. "

In AI, pg. 66:

" It is well worth checking RBC copper, hair copper, and urine copper

if corresponding tests for other elements are to be performed. Serum

copper and ceruloplasmin are not informative tests as they are normal

in many of the more common forms of copper poisoning even though they

are low in 's disease. "

In this message Andy advises not to do a stool test to see ALA's

effects on copper excretion (something that he did recommend in

Amalgam Illness):

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/38589

This says a bit about urine and serum and cell (RBC?) copper:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/58565

Here is a message on the Autism-Mercury group that I wrote to collect

messages with Andy's copper advice:

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/167484.html

I wish I knew what to do about all this. Andy's thinking on copper

has evolved between Amalgam Illness and Hair Test Interpretation and

perhaps even since HTI. What I mainly get out of all this is that

hair testing is the main thing to look at.

W.

[Guest guest]

> Does Any not suggest doing these tests for copper:

> 1.. Red Blood Cell copper

> 2.. Urine copper (not serum copper)

> 3.. Serum ceruloplasmin test.

> And people with 's don't excrete copper and could have low

copper in hair, so you could check excretion by doing a faecal copper

test.

From Hair Test Interpretation, pg. 115:

" In 's disease hair copper is variously reported as either low

or normal... "

" Blood copper levels are actively controlled by the body for various

reasons and do not increase due to copper toxicity until highly toxic

levels are reached in other tissues and a life threatening crisis is

imminent. Blood copper levels do however go up and down substantially

in response to inflammatory processes. Hair copper is fairly reliable

as an indicator of body copper levels but blood copper is irrelevant.

Urine copper levels are also of little meaning and can only be

considered significant when someone collects a timed (e.g. 24 hour)

urine specimin and is not taking any sort of chelating or copper

mobilizing agents.

Blood copper levels (red blood cell, serum, plasma) are elevated by

the mineral transport derangement characteristic of mercury poisoning,

and also by anything such as infection or allergy that causes

inflammation. Birth control pills and cancer also elevate blood

copper. High blood copper levels do not necessarily mean toxicity, it

is only reasonable to be concerned when blood or red blood cell copper

levels are well outside the normal range (much greater than 97.5th

percentile on reports presented that way). "

In Amalgam Illness, pg 117:

" In 's disease, hair, urine and RBC copper will be greatly

elevated, but serum copper and serum ceruloplasmin will be low. "

In AI, pg. 66:

" It is well worth checking RBC copper, hair copper, and urine copper

if corresponding tests for other elements are to be performed. Serum

copper and ceruloplasmin are not informative tests as they are normal

in many of the more common forms of copper poisoning even though they

are low in 's disease. "

In this message Andy advises not to do a stool test to see ALA's

effects on copper excretion (something that he did recommend in

Amalgam Illness):

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/38589

This says a bit about urine and serum and cell (RBC?) copper:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/58565

Here is a message on the Autism-Mercury group that I wrote to collect

messages with Andy's copper advice:

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/167484.html

I wish I knew what to do about all this. Andy's thinking on copper

has evolved between Amalgam Illness and Hair Test Interpretation and

perhaps even since HTI. What I mainly get out of all this is that

hair testing is the main thing to look at.

W.

[Guest guest]

I don't know the chemistry of all those compounds.

plus do you always use the same shampoo? If so and presumign none of

them contain copper, well then you have eliminated another variable -

thats a good thing.

CCL

> >

> > Shampoo - some shampoos have copper in them.

>

> My shampoo has:

>

> Water, Sodium Myreth Sulfate, Wheat Germamidopropyl Betaine, Chamomile

> Extract, Jojoba Oil, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Panthenol, Potassium

> Sorbate, Sodium Hydroxymethlyglucinate, Lactic Acid

>

> My daughter's shampoo has:

>

> Aloe Vera, 100% Decyl Polyglucose (extracts of corn, coconut & palm

> oil)., Vitamin E, Vegetable Glycerin, Citrus Seed Extract, Very Small

> Amt. (.15%, this is less than 1/4 of 1%), Of food grade

> methyl/propylparaben

>

> Her conditioner has:

>

> Water, Nettle Extract, Burdock

> Extract, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Glyceryl

> Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Jojoba Oil, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein,

> Panthenol, Tocopherol, Potassium Sorbate, Phenoxyethanol, Citric

> Acid

>

> I don't see anything in any of them that obviously would add copper to

> hair. Do you? I know soy and whole grain products are high copper,

> but it is hard to believe there is enough in there to make a difference.

>

> W.

>

[Guest guest]

> -----------Hi . Sorry I'm not any help on the copper issue,

but I just wanted to say that if you're traveling all that way to go

see anyway (you live in Florida, right?), I would certainly try

to get an appointment for yourself also.

Actually, I'm travelling from N. California.

>And please let us know how it goes and what you think of her, or

email me privately about it, because I may consider going to her

myself, if this new doctor doesn't work out. Thanks and good

luck!--------Jackie

Will do.

W.

[Guest guest]

> -----------Hi . Sorry I'm not any help on the copper issue,

but I just wanted to say that if you're traveling all that way to go

see anyway (you live in Florida, right?), I would certainly try

to get an appointment for yourself also.

Actually, I'm travelling from N. California.

>And please let us know how it goes and what you think of her, or

email me privately about it, because I may consider going to her

myself, if this new doctor doesn't work out. Thanks and good

luck!--------Jackie

Will do.

W.

[Guest guest]

> -----------Hi . Sorry I'm not any help on the copper issue,

but I just wanted to say that if you're traveling all that way to go

see anyway (you live in Florida, right?), I would certainly try

to get an appointment for yourself also.

Actually, I'm travelling from N. California.

>And please let us know how it goes and what you think of her, or

email me privately about it, because I may consider going to her

myself, if this new doctor doesn't work out. Thanks and good

luck!--------Jackie

Will do.

W.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> I posted here that I have had DDI hair tests showing high copper

> (76-140) for the last 4 years. I just got my first ever RBC Elements

> test results, which show my copper in the low red (bottom 2.5

> percentile). I have no idea what to conclude about this. I have

> followed Andy's copper reduction suggestions for about 1.5 years now,

> so my body copper could qenuinely be low

The low RBC level makes some sense if the zinc and molybdenum and

bile support are doing the job to reduce absorption and increase

excretion. This might leave very little floating around in your

blood. Is there a reason to expect it would be normal or high

given you are using the copper reduction supps?

Seems like the low RBC level doesn't really make the mystery any

deeper - it just doesn't help to solve the mystery. Maybe the

ceruloplasmin will be more informative.

and my hair contaminated

> somehow. (I don't swim or use a hot tub and I've checked my shower

> water.) Or my hair copper might reflect some body burden that does

> not show up in my red blood cells. I have done another more recent

> hair test and a blood draw for ceruloplasmin recently, but don't have

> results yet. I have confirmed that I excrete copper in my stool both

> when I am chelating with ALA and when I am not chelating at all. The

> amount is virtually the same when chelating and not. Because I do

> excrete copper in my stool, I think I can rule out 's disease.

>

> Does anyone have any insights into this? I was scheduled to take my 9

> yo autistic daughter (whose hair copper has reached 2,000) to see

> on the 16th. I just called to see if she could take me

> as a patient, too. Maybe she will have more answers.

>

> W.

Have you done any research into any of the other (more rare)

copper problems? Maybe you need to explore a medical library

(or at least pubmed) and see if you can find more information

on the genetic problems with copper. 's is a more common

one, but I have the impression there are others.

--

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> I posted here that I have had DDI hair tests showing high copper

> (76-140) for the last 4 years. I just got my first ever RBC Elements

> test results, which show my copper in the low red (bottom 2.5

> percentile). I have no idea what to conclude about this. I have

> followed Andy's copper reduction suggestions for about 1.5 years now,

> so my body copper could qenuinely be low

The low RBC level makes some sense if the zinc and molybdenum and

bile support are doing the job to reduce absorption and increase

excretion. This might leave very little floating around in your

blood. Is there a reason to expect it would be normal or high

given you are using the copper reduction supps?

Seems like the low RBC level doesn't really make the mystery any

deeper - it just doesn't help to solve the mystery. Maybe the

ceruloplasmin will be more informative.

and my hair contaminated

> somehow. (I don't swim or use a hot tub and I've checked my shower

> water.) Or my hair copper might reflect some body burden that does

> not show up in my red blood cells. I have done another more recent

> hair test and a blood draw for ceruloplasmin recently, but don't have

> results yet. I have confirmed that I excrete copper in my stool both

> when I am chelating with ALA and when I am not chelating at all. The

> amount is virtually the same when chelating and not. Because I do

> excrete copper in my stool, I think I can rule out 's disease.

>

> Does anyone have any insights into this? I was scheduled to take my 9

> yo autistic daughter (whose hair copper has reached 2,000) to see

> on the 16th. I just called to see if she could take me

> as a patient, too. Maybe she will have more answers.

>

> W.

Have you done any research into any of the other (more rare)

copper problems? Maybe you need to explore a medical library

(or at least pubmed) and see if you can find more information

on the genetic problems with copper. 's is a more common

one, but I have the impression there are others.

--

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> I posted here that I have had DDI hair tests showing high copper

> (76-140) for the last 4 years. I just got my first ever RBC Elements

> test results, which show my copper in the low red (bottom 2.5

> percentile). I have no idea what to conclude about this. I have

> followed Andy's copper reduction suggestions for about 1.5 years now,

> so my body copper could qenuinely be low

The low RBC level makes some sense if the zinc and molybdenum and

bile support are doing the job to reduce absorption and increase

excretion. This might leave very little floating around in your

blood. Is there a reason to expect it would be normal or high

given you are using the copper reduction supps?

Seems like the low RBC level doesn't really make the mystery any

deeper - it just doesn't help to solve the mystery. Maybe the

ceruloplasmin will be more informative.

and my hair contaminated

> somehow. (I don't swim or use a hot tub and I've checked my shower

> water.) Or my hair copper might reflect some body burden that does

> not show up in my red blood cells. I have done another more recent

> hair test and a blood draw for ceruloplasmin recently, but don't have

> results yet. I have confirmed that I excrete copper in my stool both

> when I am chelating with ALA and when I am not chelating at all. The

> amount is virtually the same when chelating and not. Because I do

> excrete copper in my stool, I think I can rule out 's disease.

>

> Does anyone have any insights into this? I was scheduled to take my 9

> yo autistic daughter (whose hair copper has reached 2,000) to see

> on the 16th. I just called to see if she could take me

> as a patient, too. Maybe she will have more answers.

>

> W.

Have you done any research into any of the other (more rare)

copper problems? Maybe you need to explore a medical library

(or at least pubmed) and see if you can find more information

on the genetic problems with copper. 's is a more common

one, but I have the impression there are others.

--

[Guest guest]

> >I suspect my previous high hair copper result was probably caused by

> >the same thing. This would explain then why my serum copper and

> >ceruloplasm were normal despite high hair copper !

> -CCL

>

> Hi,

> Why did you choose a 'serum' copper test?

> Does Any not suggest doing these tests for copper:

> 1.. Red Blood Cell copper

> 2.. Urine copper (not serum copper)

> 3.. Serum ceruloplasmin test.

> And people with 's don't excrete copper and could have low copper

in hair, so you could check excretion by doing a faecal copper test.

> Thanks,

> Dean

Dean, her serum ceruloplasm is probably the same thing as your #3 test. And

since she has high hair copper, why should she do a fecal copper test?

Doesn't her high hair copper prove that she is excreting copper?

Lynn

[Guest guest]

> >I suspect my previous high hair copper result was probably caused by

> >the same thing. This would explain then why my serum copper and

> >ceruloplasm were normal despite high hair copper !

> -CCL

>

> Hi,

> Why did you choose a 'serum' copper test?

> Does Any not suggest doing these tests for copper:

> 1.. Red Blood Cell copper

> 2.. Urine copper (not serum copper)

> 3.. Serum ceruloplasmin test.

> And people with 's don't excrete copper and could have low copper

in hair, so you could check excretion by doing a faecal copper test.

> Thanks,

> Dean

Dean, her serum ceruloplasm is probably the same thing as your #3 test. And

since she has high hair copper, why should she do a fecal copper test?

Doesn't her high hair copper prove that she is excreting copper?

Lynn

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation , weinert56 wrote:

> -----------Hi . Sorry I'm not any help on the copper issue,

but I just wanted to say that if you're traveling all that way to go

see anyway (you live in Florida, right?), I would certainly try

to get an appointment for yourself also.

Actually, I'm travelling from N. California.

--------Oops! I forget where people are from sometimes! It must be that

is from Florida. I know somebody is!--------------Jackie

>And please let us know how it goes and what you think of her, or

email me privately about it, because I may consider going to her

myself, if this new doctor doesn't work out. Thanks and good

luck!--------Jackie

Will do.

W.

[Guest guest]

>

> > -----------Hi . Sorry I'm not any help on the copper issue,

> but I just wanted to say that if you're traveling all that way to

go

> see anyway (you live in Florida, right?), I would certainly

try

> to get an appointment for yourself also.

>

> Actually, I'm travelling from N. California.

>

> --------Oops! I forget where people are from sometimes! It must

be that is from Florida. I know somebody is!--------------Jackie

>

>

>

> >And please let us know how it goes and what you think of her, or

> email me privately about it, because I may consider going to her

> myself, if this new doctor doesn't work out. Thanks and good

> luck!--------Jackie

>

> Will do.

>

> W.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> > -----------Hi . Sorry I'm not any help on the copper issue,

> but I just wanted to say that if you're traveling all that way to

go

> see anyway (you live in Florida, right?), I would certainly

try

> to get an appointment for yourself also.

>

> Actually, I'm travelling from N. California.

>

> --------Oops! I forget where people are from sometimes! It must

be that is from Florida. I know somebody is!--------------Jackie

>

>

>

> >And please let us know how it goes and what you think of her, or

> email me privately about it, because I may consider going to her

> myself, if this new doctor doesn't work out. Thanks and good

> luck!--------Jackie

>

> Will do.

>

> W.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> > -----------Hi . Sorry I'm not any help on the copper issue,

> but I just wanted to say that if you're traveling all that way to

go

> see anyway (you live in Florida, right?), I would certainly

try

> to get an appointment for yourself also.

>

> Actually, I'm travelling from N. California.

>

> --------Oops! I forget where people are from sometimes! It must

be that is from Florida. I know somebody is!--------------Jackie

>

>

>

> >And please let us know how it goes and what you think of her, or

> email me privately about it, because I may consider going to her

> myself, if this new doctor doesn't work out. Thanks and good

> luck!--------Jackie

>

> Will do.

>

> W.

>

>

>

>

>

>