Re: Ethical Problems with 12 Step?

[Guest guest]

Sounds like it's time to start an umbrella group for all these

folks.

I suggest " WA " -- Wankers Anon.

-- Bob Marshall

----- Original Message -----

> --- spirosparrow@... wrote:

> > Thanks for your input, all. I hadn't thought much about SA, SLAA or

> > SAA (do they have just S & MAA?)

>

> Sado-Masochist Addicts Anonymous??? Or did you mean something else and

> I just have a sick mind...?

>

> That one made me think about all the other related groups I've heard of

> since my involvment in SA. I'll throw them out there for your

> amusement:

>

> besides SA, SAA, and SLA, we've got:

> s-anon (they call this the " family group " ...you know the group I

> mentioned before, the one with all the divorces...)

> s-teen (hook 'em young!)

> RCA (Recovering Couples Anonymous)

> -this one is basically SA and S-Anon members who are married/dating

> and want to have a meeting together. I still go to this one...

>

> > Are people

> > expected to listen to stories about people's lapses in meeting?

> > Because that seems like a potentially lurid activity in itself.

>

> Anyone is allowed to object if it gets too graphic, but of course

> there's the whole social phobia of interupting when " cross-talk " is so

> discouraged. And sometimes it's just plain enjoyable...I think they

> call that a " trigger " The worst is during the First Steps. I just

> sit there wondering if I should interrupt this person's <sarcasm>deeply

> spiritual experience</sarcasm> or if s/he's going to move on to some

> more about his feelings (which might be painful, but in a different

> way...) There's one guy I met in the group who doesn't come to group

> when there's a First Step because, " I got enough fantasies of my own, I

> don't need somebody else's. "

>

> It's a strange place. The meetings I've been to are almost always 100%

> male. Anybody who's " serious " about the program is there because they

> got arrested or got kicked out by the wife (for infidelity, usually,

> sometimes just excessive porn use...and getting caught of course!)and

> group attendance is the condition for return. I'm glad I am getting out

> of the group before I get kicked out (if I do). I certainly wouldn't

> want to make my life worse by trying to make it work with somebody

> using the 12-steps as our model for life. I think I am ready to grow up

> and deal with my problems like an adult.

>

> -Cal

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I would like to become a charter member of 'wankers anonymous' Please, lets

get this thing up and going. Mike.

Re: Re: Ethical Problems with 12 Step?

> Sounds like it's time to start an umbrella group for all these

> folks.

> I suggest " WA " -- Wankers Anon.

>

> -- Bob Marshall

>

> ----- Original Message -----

>

>

> > --- spirosparrow@... wrote:

> > > Thanks for your input, all. I hadn't thought much about SA, SLAA or

> > > SAA (do they have just S & MAA?)

> >

> > Sado-Masochist Addicts Anonymous??? Or did you mean something else and

> > I just have a sick mind...?

> >

> > That one made me think about all the other related groups I've heard of

> > since my involvment in SA. I'll throw them out there for your

> > amusement:

> >

> > besides SA, SAA, and SLA, we've got:

> > s-anon (they call this the " family group " ...you know the group I

> > mentioned before, the one with all the divorces...)

> > s-teen (hook 'em young!)

> > RCA (Recovering Couples Anonymous)

> > -this one is basically SA and S-Anon members who are married/dating

> > and want to have a meeting together. I still go to this one...

> >

> > > Are people

> > > expected to listen to stories about people's lapses in meeting?

> > > Because that seems like a potentially lurid activity in itself.

> >

> > Anyone is allowed to object if it gets too graphic, but of course

> > there's the whole social phobia of interupting when " cross-talk " is so

> > discouraged. And sometimes it's just plain enjoyable...I think they

> > call that a " trigger " The worst is during the First Steps. I just

> > sit there wondering if I should interrupt this person's <sarcasm>deeply

> > spiritual experience</sarcasm> or if s/he's going to move on to some

> > more about his feelings (which might be painful, but in a different

> > way...) There's one guy I met in the group who doesn't come to group

> > when there's a First Step because, " I got enough fantasies of my own, I

> > don't need somebody else's. "

> >

> > It's a strange place. The meetings I've been to are almost always 100%

> > male. Anybody who's " serious " about the program is there because they

> > got arrested or got kicked out by the wife (for infidelity, usually,

> > sometimes just excessive porn use...and getting caught of course!)and

> > group attendance is the condition for return. I'm glad I am getting out

> > of the group before I get kicked out (if I do). I certainly wouldn't

> > want to make my life worse by trying to make it work with somebody

> > using the 12-steps as our model for life. I think I am ready to grow up

> > and deal with my problems like an adult.

> >

> > -Cal

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

I would like to become a charter member of 'wankers anonymous' Please, lets

get this thing up and going. Mike.

Re: Re: Ethical Problems with 12 Step?

> Sounds like it's time to start an umbrella group for all these

> folks.

> I suggest " WA " -- Wankers Anon.

>

> -- Bob Marshall

>

> ----- Original Message -----

>

>

> > --- spirosparrow@... wrote:

> > > Thanks for your input, all. I hadn't thought much about SA, SLAA or

> > > SAA (do they have just S & MAA?)

> >

> > Sado-Masochist Addicts Anonymous??? Or did you mean something else and

> > I just have a sick mind...?

> >

> > That one made me think about all the other related groups I've heard of

> > since my involvment in SA. I'll throw them out there for your

> > amusement:

> >

> > besides SA, SAA, and SLA, we've got:

> > s-anon (they call this the " family group " ...you know the group I

> > mentioned before, the one with all the divorces...)

> > s-teen (hook 'em young!)

> > RCA (Recovering Couples Anonymous)

> > -this one is basically SA and S-Anon members who are married/dating

> > and want to have a meeting together. I still go to this one...

> >

> > > Are people

> > > expected to listen to stories about people's lapses in meeting?

> > > Because that seems like a potentially lurid activity in itself.

> >

> > Anyone is allowed to object if it gets too graphic, but of course

> > there's the whole social phobia of interupting when " cross-talk " is so

> > discouraged. And sometimes it's just plain enjoyable...I think they

> > call that a " trigger " The worst is during the First Steps. I just

> > sit there wondering if I should interrupt this person's <sarcasm>deeply

> > spiritual experience</sarcasm> or if s/he's going to move on to some

> > more about his feelings (which might be painful, but in a different

> > way...) There's one guy I met in the group who doesn't come to group

> > when there's a First Step because, " I got enough fantasies of my own, I

> > don't need somebody else's. "

> >

> > It's a strange place. The meetings I've been to are almost always 100%

> > male. Anybody who's " serious " about the program is there because they

> > got arrested or got kicked out by the wife (for infidelity, usually,

> > sometimes just excessive porn use...and getting caught of course!)and

> > group attendance is the condition for return. I'm glad I am getting out

> > of the group before I get kicked out (if I do). I certainly wouldn't

> > want to make my life worse by trying to make it work with somebody

> > using the 12-steps as our model for life. I think I am ready to grow up

> > and deal with my problems like an adult.

> >

> > -Cal

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Cal,

You said:

" I certainly wouldn't

want to make my life worse by trying to make it work with somebody

using the 12-steps as our model for life. I think I am ready to grow

up and deal with my problems like an adult. "

Beautiful. Am sorry I was not following this particular thread very

closely. I ended my association with s groups using quite the same

statement. I felt alone in a sea of juveniles. I recognized that my

greatest problem in the sexual area was not respecting my own

sexuality. As soon as I did, it got easier to make choices and to

respond to my desires more rationally and with more maturity. S

programs are a big, big trap, I think. I did not want to establish

relationships with people on that basis. How could that ever lead me

anywhere? My one 12-step based romantic relationship was a dismal

failure.

> > Thanks for your input, all. I hadn't thought much about SA, SLAA

or

> > SAA (do they have just S & MAA?)

>

> Sado-Masochist Addicts Anonymous??? Or did you mean something else

and

> I just have a sick mind...?

>

> That one made me think about all the other related groups I've

heard of

> since my involvment in SA. I'll throw them out there for your

> amusement:

>

> besides SA, SAA, and SLA, we've got:

> s-anon (they call this the " family group " ...you know the group I

> mentioned before, the one with all the divorces...)

> s-teen (hook 'em young!)

> RCA (Recovering Couples Anonymous)

> -this one is basically SA and S-Anon members who are married/dating

> and want to have a meeting together. I still go to this one...

>

> > Are people

> > expected to listen to stories about people's lapses in meeting?

> > Because that seems like a potentially lurid activity in itself.

>

> Anyone is allowed to object if it gets too graphic, but of course

> there's the whole social phobia of interupting when " cross-talk " is

so

> discouraged. And sometimes it's just plain enjoyable...I think they

> call that a " trigger " The worst is during the First Steps. I

just

> sit there wondering if I should interrupt this person's

<sarcasm>deeply

> spiritual experience</sarcasm> or if s/he's going to move on to some

> more about his feelings (which might be painful, but in a different

> way...) There's one guy I met in the group who doesn't come to group

> when there's a First Step because, " I got enough fantasies of my

own, I

> don't need somebody else's. "

>

> It's a strange place. The meetings I've been to are almost always

100%

> male. Anybody who's " serious " about the program is there because

they

> got arrested or got kicked out by the wife (for infidelity, usually,

> sometimes just excessive porn use...and getting caught of course!)

and

> group attendance is the condition for return. I'm glad I am getting

out

> of the group before I get kicked out (if I do). I certainly wouldn't

> want to make my life worse by trying to make it work with somebody

> using the 12-steps as our model for life. I think I am ready to

grow up

> and deal with my problems like an adult.

>

> -Cal

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

> Sounds like it's time to start an umbrella group for all

these

> folks.

> I suggest " WA " -- Wankers Anon.

>

> -- Bob Marshall

>

I'd certainly take my Umbrella. lol

Mack