Getting my identity back!

May 11, 2001

Great stuff here! I am so glad I joined this group. I'm interested

in hearing more of other's experience with regaining their own

identities and self esteem after leaving the 12-step environment

(read:cult).

I notice some weird messages popping into my head from time to time

and they seem to have a lot of guilt attatched. Most of these having

something to do with moral inventories (can you believe I did 11 in

15 years?) and with what others (sponsors, " concerned " OAs) felt were

my character defects, and some about food. I keep having to tell

myself it's okay to be human, to squash these pesky thoughts. They

are less severe than they were in the beginning, as I am moving out

into life a bit more and feeling more confident.

But today, while dining with a friend I had a small piece of veggie

pizza, a glass of wine (I don't drink compulsively and have never

identified as an " alcoholic " ) and a small salad--a type of meal I

have occasionally these days--when suddenly I had a small jolt of

guilt and panic. This to me is a normal, reasonable and satisfying

meal and I think most would agree (maybe sans the vino) but for a

moment I felt like something was wrong (my good OA training), that

maybe I was delluding myself into thinking I could moderately enjoy

this evil pizza with its white flour and God knows what else. But

the panic subsided. I got a hold of myself. I finished most of the

meal and moved on to the next event.

In the past I would have scared myself right to the nearest phone for

a good tongue lashing from a sponsor or " friend, " who would have

given me a lot of reinforcement in feeling like a stupid shit-heel

for indulging in the pizza (white flour), the wine ( " liquid sugar " ),

and maybe even the salad dressing ( " how do you know what the

ingredients are if you are in a restaurant? " ), or even for dining in

a restaurant at all.

I would have been advised to pray, pray, pray. I would have to start

counting days of abstinence all over again. I would have to repent

because I am a compulsive overeater (like the taint of original sin)

and not a human being like other folks who are entitiled to enjoy

pizza with a friend in a restaurant. This indulgenence would most

certainly lead to a binge, of course (it hasn't). I might also be

advised to avoid spending time with this unhealthy person who

encourages me to dine in restaurants. I would have been told that

eating for pleasure is unhealthy for a " special " person like me and I

should have refrained and made a " better " (surely less appetizing and

satisfying) choice, like bringing my own food into the restaurant, or

praying for guidance (right there at the table) before making a

selction from the menu. This would prove my willingness to " go to

any lengths " in order to recover. This would be the compassion I had

reached out for and deserved.

" If you were really listening to HP, you would have had the yogurt

and brown rice you had originally commited to your sponsor in your

daily food plan. " I can just hear it now! I might have been warned

of a horrifying new " bottom " awaiting me--something comparable with a

story in the BB--because you can substitute " compulsive overeater "

for " alcoholic " and it is exactly the same, don't ya know? We've all

heard of the man on a bannana-split bender who beat his wife and kids

a wrapped his car around a telephone pole.

I am so glad this is all over. I cannot believe I was ever pushed

(abused is more like it) into a state-of-mind that allowed me to

think this was at all rational or healthy. SICK! SICK! SICK! I

bought it, though. I was low enough to buy into it at 15 years of

age and it stuck. It is such a relief for me to say this!

It may seem like a matter of simple semantics, but I don't refer to

myself as a compulsive eater anymore. Though I

sometimes say I used to eat compulsively (allowing myself the dignity

of using the past tense). I recognize I have the desire to eat

compulsively, usually only if the point is pressing. I don't feel

like I am my behavior, or I am a compulsion.

Even if it is a disease, people seldom make a disease their

identity. When a friend had cancer she never had to sit in a circle

of people and say " I'm Kathy and I am cancer incarnate. "

The whole thing is absurd, anachronistic, shame-based BS that people

cling to out of fear, are coerced into out of fear, by people who are

themselves fearful. It is well meaning, but dangerous and even

deadly (two suicides in my region alone in the last ten years).

How can anyone live with believing they have only two possible

options, each of them horrible, and that they have to become " step-

ford " people in order to " recover. " ACT AS IF=Bullshit yourself

until you become a mindless automaton, blurting out canned bullshit

that has nothing to do with reality or reason.

I have had the chance to speak with two OAs after leaving, and they

can't get past the 12-step indoctrination. They literally cannot see

how it is possible not to participate in twelve-step and not eat

compulsively at the same time. Both of these people said they would

pray for me (they certainly never called to express their concern)

and were convinced I was delluded, sick, and that I would come

crawling back because I could not possibly " make it " on my own. They

both used the term " dry-drunk " in those conversations. They both

asked if I thought I was still in recovery. When I said I no longer

ate compulsively, they BOTH said " that is impossible! " Freaky. I

hope they get it someday.

" Thanks for letting me share! "

May 12, 2001

----- Original Message -----

<snip>

> In the past I would have scared myself right to the nearest phone for

> a good tongue lashing from a sponsor or " friend, " who would have

> given me a lot of reinforcement in feeling like a stupid shit-heel

Holy sh*t, Batman, the lunacy of this OA stuff is even worse than

AA! Guess it's because you can avoid booze, but food is everywhere.

You were wise to run from these people. I understand that some OA

groups welcome anorexics and bulemics... they'd better, because it sounds

like OA produces them!

> Even if it is a disease, people seldom make a disease their

> identity. When a friend had cancer she never had to sit in a circle

> of people and say " I'm Kathy and I am cancer incarnate. "

This was so brutally funny it made my milk come out my nose!

(Sorry if diary products were your " food of choice, " or whatever.

Gives new meaning to the comedy song by Corky and the Juice Pigs: " The Food

of Your Choice (Will End Your Life Tonight. " )

-- Bob

May 12, 2001

----- Original Message -----

<snip>

> In the past I would have scared myself right to the nearest phone for

> a good tongue lashing from a sponsor or " friend, " who would have

> given me a lot of reinforcement in feeling like a stupid shit-heel

Holy sh*t, Batman, the lunacy of this OA stuff is even worse than

AA! Guess it's because you can avoid booze, but food is everywhere.

You were wise to run from these people. I understand that some OA

groups welcome anorexics and bulemics... they'd better, because it sounds

like OA produces them!

> Even if it is a disease, people seldom make a disease their

> identity. When a friend had cancer she never had to sit in a circle

> of people and say " I'm Kathy and I am cancer incarnate. "

This was so brutally funny it made my milk come out my nose!

(Sorry if diary products were your " food of choice, " or whatever.

Gives new meaning to the comedy song by Corky and the Juice Pigs: " The Food

of Your Choice (Will End Your Life Tonight. " )

-- Bob

May 12, 2001

> And thank you, Mona, for taking the time for a thorough reply re:

> anti-depressants; very revealing. I can see truth on both sides,

> given how brutal some of the older meds were.

I have never heard any of the old antideps being described as " brutal "

by anyone who took them, and even if a med sometimes affects some ppl

badly, what I dont get is why so many ppl seem to infer from that that

one should never even try them to see if theyre ok in ones own case.

May 12, 2001

> Great stuff here! I am so glad I joined this group. I'm interested

> in hearing more of other's experience with regaining their own

> identities and self esteem after leaving the 12-step environment

> (read:cult).

>

> " Thanks for letting me share! "

Hi ,

WOW, so many thoughts went through my head when I was reading your

post here.

One was, the steps are the steps are the steps are the steps. It

doesn't seem to matter what they are applied to. They focus on the

faults of the individual above all else. They take someone who is OK

and makes them into a sick and powerless person in the bat of an eye

and the application of a label.

When I was reading " 12-step Horror Stories, " one of the writers ended

his story by saying, " my name is Dean, and I'm a human being. " That

simple statement held so much power for me - because that is what AA

tried to take away, simple human dignity. I wasn't even a person

anymore, I was an " alcoholic. " I will never apply that or any other

label to describe myself as long as I live! What label did OA use?

You have been through so much! And starting at a young age--it may

take awhile to get it out from under your skin. I'm really glad you

signed on here.

See you,

May 12, 2001

> > Great stuff here! I am so glad I joined this group. I'm

interested

> > in hearing more of other's experience with regaining their own

> > identities and self esteem after leaving the 12-step environment

> > (read:cult).

>

> <big snip>

> >

> > " Thanks for letting me share! "

>

> Hi ,

I mean ! Sorry!

May 12, 2001

> > Great stuff here! I am so glad I joined this group. I'm

interested

> > in hearing more of other's experience with regaining their own

> > identities and self esteem after leaving the 12-step environment

> > (read:cult).

>

> <big snip>

> >

> > " Thanks for letting me share! "

>

> Hi ,

I mean ! Sorry!

May 14, 2001

Yes! I remember being a meeting once where a person shared that she

did not like to call herself a compulsive overeater because she felt

it was dehumanizing, and seeing people's reactions (a lot of smirking

and shaking of heads). If you have any dignity you don't have a

chance. The groups can possibly stop your behavior, they just won't

let you grow or get healthy. what healthy person would want to put

his/her mind into that stew? I recall, at about age 19 or 20,

becoming very depressed and nearly suicidal at the thought of having

to be in OA. I kept getting reinforcment (from people who scared me)

that I was not like other people, that I could not think like other

people . . . it is all very hard for me to think about. I started to

question people in my group, started expressing my own thoughts and

kept being told how it was my character defects. All of the " help " I

got from outside professionals only seemed to reinforce the 12-step

model. In eating disorder tx in 1987, we all had to attend 12-step

meetings (for me, it was a provision of the insurance coverage, if

you can believe it) and we went to everything, even NA and CA

(cocaine anonymous, which like NA, does not even follow the proper

nomenclature). It was terrifying for me (I was 17). Oh well, there

are better days ahead of me.

This is helping me, having this chance to bear these feelings with

people who know what I am talking about. I tried with a therapist

(someone not very connected with 12-step) but he didn't seem to

understand, or thought my point was overstated. I remember making

some interesting friends in college, and how my 12-step

indoctrination kept me from relating to them. I felt like I lived in

two worlds, the free, intellectual environment at school; and the

world of OA, which I absolutely needed to maintain in order to stay

alive, right? This is when I really started to crack. I am so glad

I am out of this, now. I am sure I have some of the symptoms of

recovery group disorder that Trimpey talks about in RR. Anyone know

what I mean?

-

> thats exactly what i did too when i left AA, i released i had

stooped being alcoholic when i

> stopped drinking, and i took back my identity as human first. now

i dont think of myself as

> alcoholic, but rather a sober human being.

>

> aa uses the word as a tool for dehumanizing and homogenizing its

members personalities.

>

> when was in AA i recall a guy who came in and said " hi, im an

alcoholic and my name is john " . he

> said he did that because the alcoholics was more pertinent to his

identity than his name. i was

> 100% sure i was in a cult when i heard that.

>

> >

> > WOW, so many thoughts went through my head when I was reading

your

> > post here.

> >

> > One was, the steps are the steps are the steps are the steps. It

> > doesn't seem to matter what they are applied to. They focus on

the

> > faults of the individual above all else. They take someone who

is OK

> > and makes them into a sick and powerless person in the bat of an

eye

> > and the application of a label.

> >

> > When I was reading " 12-step Horror Stories, " one of the writers

ended

> > his story by saying, " my name is Dean, and I'm a human being. "

That

> > simple statement held so much power for me - because that is what

AA

> > tried to take away, simple human dignity. I wasn't even a person

> > anymore, I was an " alcoholic. " I will never apply that or any

other

> > label to describe myself as long as I live! What label did OA

use?

> >

> > You have been through so much! And starting at a young age--it

may

> > take awhile to get it out from under your skin. I'm really glad

you

> > signed on here.

> >

> > See you,

> >

May 14, 2001