New to Group - EDTA & Endocrine Questions

[Guest guest]

I had my amalgams removed two years ago, and even though this has brought about

a tremendous improvement in my health, I continue with a debilitating degree of

fatigue.

I had follow-up DMPS mercury challenge testing last summer, which had shown my

mercury levels had come way down, still elevated beyond the 'normal' ranges,

however. At this point, I found my lead levels were close to the remaining

mercury level (also shown a year earlier in hair analysis). Something new that

was showing up last summer was highly elevated arsenic levels. This seems to

have been occurring since moving to the state of PA two years ago.

I'm waiting for Andy's book on chelation protocol, but in the meantime would

appreciate information or experience any of you may have regarding when IV EDTA

chelation is appropriate. My doctor has been wanting me to get started on it,

but I'm a skeptic and have avoided all IV chelation other than using DMPS for

testing purposes.

My endocrine system was severely hit, and a doctor specializing in treating

heavy metals had told me, prior to amalgam removal, that by then I'd had so much

cellular damage that only so much could be done, but that my amalgams needed to

come out right away.

Natural means (herbals, supplements, rest, avoidance of stress, etc.) of

improving adrenal function haven't been successful after 3-4 years. I

supplement DHEA and my saliva cortisol levels follow the low end of normal on a

graph chart, bottoming to " 0 " by evening (and this testing was done on the best

of days). I'm on Cytomel for thyroid (30-35 mcg daily), and although I do

significantly better on a higher dose (50 mcg), T3 blood test levels can run too

high if I take more than this. (Other forms of thyroid are not effective.)

Without Cytomel, I'm practically in a coma with low pulse, BP, body temp, etc.

I consistently run very high levels of antibodies for Hashimoto's & suspect the

thyroid disease was present for 20-30 years prior to diagnosis.

I actually function quite normally most days because I take a very low dose of

a stimulant (Adderall) together with thyroid. It's as if thyroid doesn't quite

do it's job without it. To avoid becoming adapted to stimulant medication,

however, I only do this combination 4-5 days a week. The other days are

essentially lost days after 10-11 am due to fatigue.

When I approach doctors (and I've tried three of them this past year, one an

endocrinologist), they are all quick to write a script for a stimulant, which I

know is supposed to be hard on adrenals, yet none will even discuss low-dose

cortisol as an alternative. I've researched this to death, and find there is a

form of congenital hypothyroidism that links to attention deficit disorder and

that combined thyroid/stimulant medication is actually the treatment. If this

is the case with me, it may partly explain why I accumulated heavy metals in the

first place. With sufficient metabolic levels & the right supplements, it

appears I've been able to detoxify fairly well.

I don't produce significant levels of estradiol, progesterone, or

testosterone. Because natural estrogen creams don't product measurable levels

or physical response (it's notably important for me for memory/mental

processing), I use a synthetic patch. I get progesterone in compounded cream

form, and seem to make enough testosterone by supplementing DHEA. All this

seems to relate to very poor adrenal function.

My diet is very clean - organic, minimally processed, avoiding or rotating

foods I've been allergic to, and I'm attentive to body pH levels. I'm very

sensitive to numerous chemicals and live in a very well cleared up environment

as a result, although it's a struggle to avoid formaldehyde! My immune system

is well recovered & digestion is now very good with enzyme supplements. I've

consistently been diligent about getting appropriate exercise. I continue with

supplements that are recommended to support heavy metal detoxification. It's

getting to be a very long time to continue with the expense of so many

supplements!

Questions:

1) Is there case history showing stimulant medication appropriate in

situations like mine, wherein it greatly improves physical fatigue levels?

(Note: if it's not taken for long periods of time, fibromyalgia symptoms become

a factor.)

2) Should I continue to try to pursue low-dose cortisol?

3) Is IV EDTA appropriate? Safe? What results might I see when there seems

to be a mix of metal accumulations? Is EDTA the chelation agent of choice with

mixed metal toxicity?

I do look forward to studying Andy's books in detail, but in the meantime, any

thoughts & ideas are appreciated.

Thanks so much,

Joanne

---------------------------------

Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question

on Yahoo! Answers.

[Guest guest]

>

> I had my amalgams removed two years ago, and even though this has

brought about a tremendous improvement in my health, I continue with

a debilitating degree of fatigue.

>

> I had follow-up DMPS mercury challenge testing last summer, which

had shown my mercury levels had come way down, still elevated beyond

the 'normal' ranges, however.

TK--- these are not informative and not safe as they redistribute a

lot of Hg which can make you much worse - do DDI hair elements

analysis instead and follow the counting rules.

At this point, I found my lead levels were close to the remaining

mercury level (also shown a year earlier in hair analysis).

Something new that was showing up last summer was highly elevated

arsenic levels. This seems to have been occurring since moving to

the state of PA two years ago.

>

> I'm waiting for Andy's book on chelation protocol, but in the

meantime would appreciate information or experience any of you may

have regarding when IV EDTA chelation is appropriate.

TK--- never for metal chelation

My doctor has been wanting me to get started on it, but I'm a

skeptic and have avoided all IV chelation other than using DMPS for

testing purposes.

>

> My endocrine system was severely hit, and a doctor specializing

in treating heavy metals had told me, prior to amalgam removal, that

by then I'd had so much cellular damage that only so much could be

done, but that my amalgams needed to come out right away.

>

> Natural means (herbals, supplements, rest, avoidance of stress,

etc.) of improving adrenal function haven't been successful after 3-4

years.

I supplement DHEA and my saliva cortisol levels follow the low end

of normal

TK--- dhea by itself may not be enough and you would need to further

test to make sure you are absorbing the dhea. For me over the years

otc DHEA & pregnenolone did nothing for my dhea/preg levels and only

a compounded time release formula worked to get both levels up

on a graph chart, bottoming to " 0 " by evening (and this testing was

done on the best of days).

I'm on Cytomel for thyroid (30-35 mcg daily), and although I do

significantly better on a higher dose (50 mcg), T3 blood test levels

can run too high if I take more than this. (Other forms of thyroid

are not effective.) Without Cytomel, I'm practically in a coma with

low pulse, BP, body temp, etc.

TK-- you might want to try a compounded time release T3 as cytomel is

very fast acting and only available for about 2.5 hrs for the body to

use.

I consistently run very high levels of antibodies for Hashimoto's &

suspect the thyroid disease was present for 20-30 years prior to

diagnosis.

>

> I actually function quite normally most days because I take a

very low dose of a stimulant (Adderall) together with thyroid. It's

as if thyroid doesn't quite do it's job without it. To avoid

becoming adapted to stimulant medication, however, I only do this

combination 4-5 days a week. The other days are essentially lost

days after 10-11 am due to fatigue.

TK--- sounds like you need to increase adrenal supplementation

>

> When I approach doctors (and I've tried three of them this past

year, one an endocrinologist), they are all quick to write a script

for a stimulant, which I know is supposed to be hard on adrenals

TK-- correct

yet none will even discuss low-dose cortisol as an alternative.

TK-- they do not know enough

I've researched this to death, and find there is a form of

congenital hypothyroidism that links to attention deficit disorder

and that combined thyroid/stimulant medication is actually the

treatment. If this is the case with me, it may partly explain why I

accumulated heavy metals in the first place. With sufficient

metabolic levels & the right supplements, it appears I've been able

to detoxify fairly well.

>

> I don't produce significant levels of estradiol, progesterone, or

testosterone. Because natural estrogen creams don't product

measurable levels or physical response (it's notably important for me

for memory/mental processing), I use a synthetic patch. I get

progesterone in compounded cream form, and seem to make enough

testosterone by supplementing DHEA. All this seems to relate to very

poor adrenal function.

>

> My diet is very clean - organic, minimally processed, avoiding or

rotating foods I've been allergic to, and I'm attentive to body pH

levels. I'm very sensitive to numerous chemicals and live in a very

well cleared up environment as a result, although it's a struggle to

avoid formaldehyde! My immune system is well recovered & digestion

is now very good with enzyme supplements. I've consistently been

diligent about getting appropriate exercise. I continue with

supplements that are recommended to support heavy metal

detoxification. It's getting to be a very long time to continue with

the expense of so many supplements!

>

> Questions:

>

> 1) Is there case history showing stimulant medication

appropriate in situations like mine, wherein it greatly improves

physical fatigue levels? (Note: if it's not taken for long periods

of time, fibromyalgia symptoms become a factor.)

>

> 2) Should I continue to try to pursue low-dose cortisol?

TK--- it is an option along with the other [natural] adrenal

supplement options and it should be something you address

>

> 3) Is IV EDTA appropriate?

TK--- no

Safe?

TK--- no

What results might I see when there seems to be a mix of metal

accumulations? Is EDTA the chelation agent of choice with mixed

metal toxicity?

TK-- no

>

> I do look forward to studying Andy's books in detail, but in the

meantime, any thoughts & ideas are appreciated.

>

> Thanks so much,

>

> Joanne

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask

your question on Yahoo! Answers.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I had my amalgams removed two years ago, and even though this has

brought about a tremendous improvement in my health, I continue with

a debilitating degree of fatigue.

>

> I had follow-up DMPS mercury challenge testing last summer, which

had shown my mercury levels had come way down, still elevated beyond

the 'normal' ranges, however.

TK--- these are not informative and not safe as they redistribute a

lot of Hg which can make you much worse - do DDI hair elements

analysis instead and follow the counting rules.

At this point, I found my lead levels were close to the remaining

mercury level (also shown a year earlier in hair analysis).

Something new that was showing up last summer was highly elevated

arsenic levels. This seems to have been occurring since moving to

the state of PA two years ago.

>

> I'm waiting for Andy's book on chelation protocol, but in the

meantime would appreciate information or experience any of you may

have regarding when IV EDTA chelation is appropriate.

TK--- never for metal chelation

My doctor has been wanting me to get started on it, but I'm a

skeptic and have avoided all IV chelation other than using DMPS for

testing purposes.

>

> My endocrine system was severely hit, and a doctor specializing

in treating heavy metals had told me, prior to amalgam removal, that

by then I'd had so much cellular damage that only so much could be

done, but that my amalgams needed to come out right away.

>

> Natural means (herbals, supplements, rest, avoidance of stress,

etc.) of improving adrenal function haven't been successful after 3-4

years.

I supplement DHEA and my saliva cortisol levels follow the low end

of normal

TK--- dhea by itself may not be enough and you would need to further

test to make sure you are absorbing the dhea. For me over the years

otc DHEA & pregnenolone did nothing for my dhea/preg levels and only

a compounded time release formula worked to get both levels up

on a graph chart, bottoming to " 0 " by evening (and this testing was

done on the best of days).

I'm on Cytomel for thyroid (30-35 mcg daily), and although I do

significantly better on a higher dose (50 mcg), T3 blood test levels

can run too high if I take more than this. (Other forms of thyroid

are not effective.) Without Cytomel, I'm practically in a coma with

low pulse, BP, body temp, etc.

TK-- you might want to try a compounded time release T3 as cytomel is

very fast acting and only available for about 2.5 hrs for the body to

use.

I consistently run very high levels of antibodies for Hashimoto's &

suspect the thyroid disease was present for 20-30 years prior to

diagnosis.

>

> I actually function quite normally most days because I take a

very low dose of a stimulant (Adderall) together with thyroid. It's

as if thyroid doesn't quite do it's job without it. To avoid

becoming adapted to stimulant medication, however, I only do this

combination 4-5 days a week. The other days are essentially lost

days after 10-11 am due to fatigue.

TK--- sounds like you need to increase adrenal supplementation

>

> When I approach doctors (and I've tried three of them this past

year, one an endocrinologist), they are all quick to write a script

for a stimulant, which I know is supposed to be hard on adrenals

TK-- correct

yet none will even discuss low-dose cortisol as an alternative.

TK-- they do not know enough

I've researched this to death, and find there is a form of

congenital hypothyroidism that links to attention deficit disorder

and that combined thyroid/stimulant medication is actually the

treatment. If this is the case with me, it may partly explain why I

accumulated heavy metals in the first place. With sufficient

metabolic levels & the right supplements, it appears I've been able

to detoxify fairly well.

>

> I don't produce significant levels of estradiol, progesterone, or

testosterone. Because natural estrogen creams don't product

measurable levels or physical response (it's notably important for me

for memory/mental processing), I use a synthetic patch. I get

progesterone in compounded cream form, and seem to make enough

testosterone by supplementing DHEA. All this seems to relate to very

poor adrenal function.

>

> My diet is very clean - organic, minimally processed, avoiding or

rotating foods I've been allergic to, and I'm attentive to body pH

levels. I'm very sensitive to numerous chemicals and live in a very

well cleared up environment as a result, although it's a struggle to

avoid formaldehyde! My immune system is well recovered & digestion

is now very good with enzyme supplements. I've consistently been

diligent about getting appropriate exercise. I continue with

supplements that are recommended to support heavy metal

detoxification. It's getting to be a very long time to continue with

the expense of so many supplements!

>

> Questions:

>

> 1) Is there case history showing stimulant medication

appropriate in situations like mine, wherein it greatly improves

physical fatigue levels? (Note: if it's not taken for long periods

of time, fibromyalgia symptoms become a factor.)

>

> 2) Should I continue to try to pursue low-dose cortisol?

TK--- it is an option along with the other [natural] adrenal

supplement options and it should be something you address

>

> 3) Is IV EDTA appropriate?

TK--- no

Safe?

TK--- no

What results might I see when there seems to be a mix of metal

accumulations? Is EDTA the chelation agent of choice with mixed

metal toxicity?

TK-- no

>

> I do look forward to studying Andy's books in detail, but in the

meantime, any thoughts & ideas are appreciated.

>

> Thanks so much,

>

> Joanne

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask

your question on Yahoo! Answers.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I had my amalgams removed two years ago, and even though this has

brought about a tremendous improvement in my health, I continue with

a debilitating degree of fatigue.

>

> I had follow-up DMPS mercury challenge testing last summer, which

had shown my mercury levels had come way down, still elevated beyond

the 'normal' ranges, however.

TK--- these are not informative and not safe as they redistribute a

lot of Hg which can make you much worse - do DDI hair elements

analysis instead and follow the counting rules.

At this point, I found my lead levels were close to the remaining

mercury level (also shown a year earlier in hair analysis).

Something new that was showing up last summer was highly elevated

arsenic levels. This seems to have been occurring since moving to

the state of PA two years ago.

>

> I'm waiting for Andy's book on chelation protocol, but in the

meantime would appreciate information or experience any of you may

have regarding when IV EDTA chelation is appropriate.

TK--- never for metal chelation

My doctor has been wanting me to get started on it, but I'm a

skeptic and have avoided all IV chelation other than using DMPS for

testing purposes.

>

> My endocrine system was severely hit, and a doctor specializing

in treating heavy metals had told me, prior to amalgam removal, that

by then I'd had so much cellular damage that only so much could be

done, but that my amalgams needed to come out right away.

>

> Natural means (herbals, supplements, rest, avoidance of stress,

etc.) of improving adrenal function haven't been successful after 3-4

years.

I supplement DHEA and my saliva cortisol levels follow the low end

of normal

TK--- dhea by itself may not be enough and you would need to further

test to make sure you are absorbing the dhea. For me over the years

otc DHEA & pregnenolone did nothing for my dhea/preg levels and only

a compounded time release formula worked to get both levels up

on a graph chart, bottoming to " 0 " by evening (and this testing was

done on the best of days).

I'm on Cytomel for thyroid (30-35 mcg daily), and although I do

significantly better on a higher dose (50 mcg), T3 blood test levels

can run too high if I take more than this. (Other forms of thyroid

are not effective.) Without Cytomel, I'm practically in a coma with

low pulse, BP, body temp, etc.

TK-- you might want to try a compounded time release T3 as cytomel is

very fast acting and only available for about 2.5 hrs for the body to

use.

I consistently run very high levels of antibodies for Hashimoto's &

suspect the thyroid disease was present for 20-30 years prior to

diagnosis.

>

> I actually function quite normally most days because I take a

very low dose of a stimulant (Adderall) together with thyroid. It's

as if thyroid doesn't quite do it's job without it. To avoid

becoming adapted to stimulant medication, however, I only do this

combination 4-5 days a week. The other days are essentially lost

days after 10-11 am due to fatigue.

TK--- sounds like you need to increase adrenal supplementation

>

> When I approach doctors (and I've tried three of them this past

year, one an endocrinologist), they are all quick to write a script

for a stimulant, which I know is supposed to be hard on adrenals

TK-- correct

yet none will even discuss low-dose cortisol as an alternative.

TK-- they do not know enough

I've researched this to death, and find there is a form of

congenital hypothyroidism that links to attention deficit disorder

and that combined thyroid/stimulant medication is actually the

treatment. If this is the case with me, it may partly explain why I

accumulated heavy metals in the first place. With sufficient

metabolic levels & the right supplements, it appears I've been able

to detoxify fairly well.

>

> I don't produce significant levels of estradiol, progesterone, or

testosterone. Because natural estrogen creams don't product

measurable levels or physical response (it's notably important for me

for memory/mental processing), I use a synthetic patch. I get

progesterone in compounded cream form, and seem to make enough

testosterone by supplementing DHEA. All this seems to relate to very

poor adrenal function.

>

> My diet is very clean - organic, minimally processed, avoiding or

rotating foods I've been allergic to, and I'm attentive to body pH

levels. I'm very sensitive to numerous chemicals and live in a very

well cleared up environment as a result, although it's a struggle to

avoid formaldehyde! My immune system is well recovered & digestion

is now very good with enzyme supplements. I've consistently been

diligent about getting appropriate exercise. I continue with

supplements that are recommended to support heavy metal

detoxification. It's getting to be a very long time to continue with

the expense of so many supplements!

>

> Questions:

>

> 1) Is there case history showing stimulant medication

appropriate in situations like mine, wherein it greatly improves

physical fatigue levels? (Note: if it's not taken for long periods

of time, fibromyalgia symptoms become a factor.)

>

> 2) Should I continue to try to pursue low-dose cortisol?

TK--- it is an option along with the other [natural] adrenal

supplement options and it should be something you address

>

> 3) Is IV EDTA appropriate?

TK--- no

Safe?

TK--- no

What results might I see when there seems to be a mix of metal

accumulations? Is EDTA the chelation agent of choice with mixed

metal toxicity?

TK-- no

>

> I do look forward to studying Andy's books in detail, but in the

meantime, any thoughts & ideas are appreciated.

>

> Thanks so much,

>

> Joanne

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask

your question on Yahoo! Answers.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, TK, for your responses. I think we have to rely on collective

experiences for help. Speaking for myself, I feel like I've been a human guinea

pig for the medical & dental industries and that little has changed, but at

least I'm beyond anger! We're all human.

Joanne

TK wrote:

>

> I had my amalgams removed two years ago, and even though this has

brought about a tremendous improvement in my health, I continue with

a debilitating degree of fatigue.

>

> I had follow-up DMPS mercury challenge testing last summer, which

had shown my mercury levels had come way down, still elevated beyond

the 'normal' ranges, however.

TK--- these are not informative and not safe as they redistribute a

lot of Hg which can make you much worse - do DDI hair elements

analysis instead and follow the counting rules.

At this point, I found my lead levels were close to the remaining

mercury level (also shown a year earlier in hair analysis).

Something new that was showing up last summer was highly elevated

arsenic levels. This seems to have been occurring since moving to

the state of PA two years ago.

>

> I'm waiting for Andy's book on chelation protocol, but in the

meantime would appreciate information or experience any of you may

have regarding when IV EDTA chelation is appropriate.

TK--- never for metal chelation

My doctor has been wanting me to get started on it, but I'm a

skeptic and have avoided all IV chelation other than using DMPS for

testing purposes.

>

> My endocrine system was severely hit, and a doctor specializing

in treating heavy metals had told me, prior to amalgam removal, that

by then I'd had so much cellular damage that only so much could be

done, but that my amalgams needed to come out right away.

>

> Natural means (herbals, supplements, rest, avoidance of stress,

etc.) of improving adrenal function haven't been successful after 3-4

years.

I supplement DHEA and my saliva cortisol levels follow the low end

of normal

TK--- dhea by itself may not be enough and you would need to further

test to make sure you are absorbing the dhea. For me over the years

otc DHEA & pregnenolone did nothing for my dhea/preg levels and only

a compounded time release formula worked to get both levels up

on a graph chart, bottoming to " 0 " by evening (and this testing was

done on the best of days).

I'm on Cytomel for thyroid (30-35 mcg daily), and although I do

significantly better on a higher dose (50 mcg), T3 blood test levels

can run too high if I take more than this. (Other forms of thyroid

are not effective.) Without Cytomel, I'm practically in a coma with

low pulse, BP, body temp, etc.

TK-- you might want to try a compounded time release T3 as cytomel is

very fast acting and only available for about 2.5 hrs for the body to

use.

I consistently run very high levels of antibodies for Hashimoto's &

suspect the thyroid disease was present for 20-30 years prior to

diagnosis.

>

> I actually function quite normally most days because I take a

very low dose of a stimulant (Adderall) together with thyroid. It's

as if thyroid doesn't quite do it's job without it. To avoid

becoming adapted to stimulant medication, however, I only do this

combination 4-5 days a week. The other days are essentially lost

days after 10-11 am due to fatigue.

TK--- sounds like you need to increase adrenal supplementation

>

> When I approach doctors (and I've tried three of them this past

year, one an endocrinologist), they are all quick to write a script

for a stimulant, which I know is supposed to be hard on adrenals

TK-- correct

yet none will even discuss low-dose cortisol as an alternative.

TK-- they do not know enough

I've researched this to death, and find there is a form of

congenital hypothyroidism that links to attention deficit disorder

and that combined thyroid/stimulant medication is actually the

treatment. If this is the case with me, it may partly explain why I

accumulated heavy metals in the first place. With sufficient

metabolic levels & the right supplements, it appears I've been able

to detoxify fairly well.

>

> I don't produce significant levels of estradiol, progesterone, or

testosterone. Because natural estrogen creams don't product

measurable levels or physical response (it's notably important for me

for memory/mental processing), I use a synthetic patch. I get

progesterone in compounded cream form, and seem to make enough

testosterone by supplementing DHEA. All this seems to relate to very

poor adrenal function.

>

> My diet is very clean - organic, minimally processed, avoiding or

rotating foods I've been allergic to, and I'm attentive to body pH

levels. I'm very sensitive to numerous chemicals and live in a very

well cleared up environment as a result, although it's a struggle to

avoid formaldehyde! My immune system is well recovered & digestion

is now very good with enzyme supplements. I've consistently been

diligent about getting appropriate exercise. I continue with

supplements that are recommended to support heavy metal

detoxification. It's getting to be a very long time to continue with

the expense of so many supplements!

>

> Questions:

>

> 1) Is there case history showing stimulant medication

appropriate in situations like mine, wherein it greatly improves

physical fatigue levels? (Note: if it's not taken for long periods

of time, fibromyalgia symptoms become a factor.)

>

> 2) Should I continue to try to pursue low-dose cortisol?

TK--- it is an option along with the other [natural] adrenal

supplement options and it should be something you address

>

> 3) Is IV EDTA appropriate?

TK--- no

Safe?

TK--- no

What results might I see when there seems to be a mix of metal

accumulations? Is EDTA the chelation agent of choice with mixed

metal toxicity?

TK-- no

>

> I do look forward to studying Andy's books in detail, but in the

meantime, any thoughts & ideas are appreciated.

>

> Thanks so much,

>

> Joanne

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask

your question on Yahoo! Answers.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, TK, for your responses. I think we have to rely on collective

experiences for help. Speaking for myself, I feel like I've been a human guinea

pig for the medical & dental industries and that little has changed, but at

least I'm beyond anger! We're all human.

Joanne

TK wrote:

>

> I had my amalgams removed two years ago, and even though this has

brought about a tremendous improvement in my health, I continue with

a debilitating degree of fatigue.

>

> I had follow-up DMPS mercury challenge testing last summer, which

had shown my mercury levels had come way down, still elevated beyond

the 'normal' ranges, however.

TK--- these are not informative and not safe as they redistribute a

lot of Hg which can make you much worse - do DDI hair elements

analysis instead and follow the counting rules.

At this point, I found my lead levels were close to the remaining

mercury level (also shown a year earlier in hair analysis).

Something new that was showing up last summer was highly elevated

arsenic levels. This seems to have been occurring since moving to

the state of PA two years ago.

>

> I'm waiting for Andy's book on chelation protocol, but in the

meantime would appreciate information or experience any of you may

have regarding when IV EDTA chelation is appropriate.

TK--- never for metal chelation

My doctor has been wanting me to get started on it, but I'm a

skeptic and have avoided all IV chelation other than using DMPS for

testing purposes.

>

> My endocrine system was severely hit, and a doctor specializing

in treating heavy metals had told me, prior to amalgam removal, that

by then I'd had so much cellular damage that only so much could be

done, but that my amalgams needed to come out right away.

>

> Natural means (herbals, supplements, rest, avoidance of stress,

etc.) of improving adrenal function haven't been successful after 3-4

years.

I supplement DHEA and my saliva cortisol levels follow the low end

of normal

TK--- dhea by itself may not be enough and you would need to further

test to make sure you are absorbing the dhea. For me over the years

otc DHEA & pregnenolone did nothing for my dhea/preg levels and only

a compounded time release formula worked to get both levels up

on a graph chart, bottoming to " 0 " by evening (and this testing was

done on the best of days).

I'm on Cytomel for thyroid (30-35 mcg daily), and although I do

significantly better on a higher dose (50 mcg), T3 blood test levels

can run too high if I take more than this. (Other forms of thyroid

are not effective.) Without Cytomel, I'm practically in a coma with

low pulse, BP, body temp, etc.

TK-- you might want to try a compounded time release T3 as cytomel is

very fast acting and only available for about 2.5 hrs for the body to

use.

I consistently run very high levels of antibodies for Hashimoto's &

suspect the thyroid disease was present for 20-30 years prior to

diagnosis.

>

> I actually function quite normally most days because I take a

very low dose of a stimulant (Adderall) together with thyroid. It's

as if thyroid doesn't quite do it's job without it. To avoid

becoming adapted to stimulant medication, however, I only do this

combination 4-5 days a week. The other days are essentially lost

days after 10-11 am due to fatigue.

TK--- sounds like you need to increase adrenal supplementation

>

> When I approach doctors (and I've tried three of them this past

year, one an endocrinologist), they are all quick to write a script

for a stimulant, which I know is supposed to be hard on adrenals

TK-- correct

yet none will even discuss low-dose cortisol as an alternative.

TK-- they do not know enough

I've researched this to death, and find there is a form of

congenital hypothyroidism that links to attention deficit disorder

and that combined thyroid/stimulant medication is actually the

treatment. If this is the case with me, it may partly explain why I

accumulated heavy metals in the first place. With sufficient

metabolic levels & the right supplements, it appears I've been able

to detoxify fairly well.

>

> I don't produce significant levels of estradiol, progesterone, or

testosterone. Because natural estrogen creams don't product

measurable levels or physical response (it's notably important for me

for memory/mental processing), I use a synthetic patch. I get

progesterone in compounded cream form, and seem to make enough

testosterone by supplementing DHEA. All this seems to relate to very

poor adrenal function.

>

> My diet is very clean - organic, minimally processed, avoiding or

rotating foods I've been allergic to, and I'm attentive to body pH

levels. I'm very sensitive to numerous chemicals and live in a very

well cleared up environment as a result, although it's a struggle to

avoid formaldehyde! My immune system is well recovered & digestion

is now very good with enzyme supplements. I've consistently been

diligent about getting appropriate exercise. I continue with

supplements that are recommended to support heavy metal

detoxification. It's getting to be a very long time to continue with

the expense of so many supplements!

>

> Questions:

>

> 1) Is there case history showing stimulant medication

appropriate in situations like mine, wherein it greatly improves

physical fatigue levels? (Note: if it's not taken for long periods

of time, fibromyalgia symptoms become a factor.)

>

> 2) Should I continue to try to pursue low-dose cortisol?

TK--- it is an option along with the other [natural] adrenal

supplement options and it should be something you address

>

> 3) Is IV EDTA appropriate?

TK--- no

Safe?

TK--- no

What results might I see when there seems to be a mix of metal

accumulations? Is EDTA the chelation agent of choice with mixed

metal toxicity?

TK-- no

>

> I do look forward to studying Andy's books in detail, but in the

meantime, any thoughts & ideas are appreciated.

>

> Thanks so much,

>

> Joanne

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask

your question on Yahoo! Answers.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jan.

I started with Armour & didn't get significant results from it, even going to

a high dose, so I was retested & put on Cytomel. This happened before switching

to a doctor that was attentive to adrenals & mercury issues. Most doctors since

have wanted my Cytomel at lower levels than that which will offer enough

physical response. I tried Armour again after my fillings were out & had

detoxed mercury levels down quite a bit, but I was barely conscious on it for

2-3 months & it was impossible to continue to work with it. I think thyroid's a

problem for me on many different levels. I did join the Natural Thyroid group a

while back, but it seemed basically pro-Armour. I'm allergic to many foods &

suspect that may be why I resist it.

As to adrenals, my experience has been that it's far easier to find

professionals who know something about mercury than it is to find those who

really understand adrenal glands. One can only spend so much time with hobbies,

Tai Chi, rest & and a schedule of supplements! Adrenal issues always come to

the forefront in stressful times (i.e., my daughter's wedding last summer,

family coming in for the holidays, etc.), and I bottom out when I need energy

most.

The literature on removing mercury that I have is harshest about DMSA, so it's

surprising to hear it promoted. I thought it's hard on liver & kidneys, among

other things.

Unfortunately, I was treated for candida before I was treated for mercury &

amalgams. This probably caused untold damage that might not have been

necessary. I'd been on 3 years of tetracycline that wiped out my immune system

in HS, so candida had many years to do its work. Killing it off must have

unleashed a lot of mercury (I had fillings in all of my teeth & many repairs had

been done over the years) & looking back, it's surprising I survived the months

of die off. There were times I couldn't move limbs! It's now been 4 1/2 years

since first switching out of the medical mainstream & beginning treatment for

the " real " issues. A very rocky road, but much of my life is back.

I've tried using ALA per protocols from IAOMT & others, but was never able to

tolerate more than a few days on it (even as recently as August), which is why

Andy's work sounds so interesting.

One of the reasons for lack of estrogen & other hormones is that I had a

complete hysterectomy at an early age. This was likely inappropriate treatment

and thyroid testing & medication at that time was more than certainly warranted.

For the ten years prior I'd been asking for thyroid testing (since my mid-20's),

but was always told people my age don't have thyroid problems! In any event, my

adrenals haven't been strong enough to pick up for the lack of other hormones

and it's been nearly 15 years since the surgery. I'm at the point where

continuing synthetic hormones is not recommended, but too young (still in 40's)

for the intellectual deficit I face without them (I've tried several times).

It's very, very frustrating to even consider seeking out yet one more doctor.

The last endrocinologist told me I'd been misled and had been seeing 'quacks'

for years & didn't need any medication or supplements, all in the span of a 15

minute initial appointment. Life is too short for this. The nearest larger

city (Pittsburgh) is 3 hours away, and I can't consider driving alone. We moved

into a rural area over 2 years ago, which has had its health benefits, but this

area is known for it's hostility to natural/alternative medicine. I'm amazed

I've found the doctor I'm seeing at a distance of 90 minutes away.

Joanne

Jan wrote:

While I cannot address every question in this post right now I can

say that EDTA is not recommended for anyone with mercury issues. And

definitely not IV chelation. Your instincts are right. This is

harmful and likely you will get worse. From the syptoms you are

describing, mercury is still an issue and is still hindering your

endocrine system. Theh presence of lead also indicates that you need

chelation with dmsa. Dmsa first for a while then add in ALA to

remove more mercury.

Also, please do not do any more challenge tests. They are dangerous

and not particularly useful. They free up large amounts of metals

that cannot be removed all at once, which causes them to resettle

into the body in other places. It is very " normal " for anyone with

mercury to have serious endocring issues. Usually adrenal support is

needed first, later adding in thyroid support. As chelation and

treatment ensue, you will see things like estrogen start to work

properly. Have you tried Armour for your thyroid. I don't recall

much about Cytomel, but usually a natural thyroid support or

replacement will work better. Your thyroid is not going to do its'

job without adrenal support. I don't hear a mention of that. You may

need more than herbs for your adrenals at this point.

Are you treating candida? Chronic yeast is often underlook at but

does contribute to the fatigue. However, I must say the low bp and

all that...adrenals. You may need to find a different doc to treat

them with cortisol. I would suggest checking out the Natural Thyroid

Hormones Group. they are pretty knowledgable on thyroid and adrenal

problems..as well as female hormones.

>

> I had my amalgams removed two years ago, and even though this has

brought about a tremendous improvement in my health, I continue with

a debilitating degree of fatigue.

>

> I had follow-up DMPS mercury challenge testing last summer,

which had shown my mercury levels had come way down, still elevated

beyond the 'normal' ranges, however. At this point, I found my lead

levels were close to the remaining mercury level (also shown a year

earlier in hair analysis). Something new that was showing up last

summer was highly elevated arsenic levels. This seems to have been

occurring since moving to the state of PA two years ago.

>

> I'm waiting for Andy's book on chelation protocol, but in the

meantime would appreciate information or experience any of you may

have regarding when IV EDTA chelation is appropriate. My doctor has

been wanting me to get started on it, but I'm a skeptic and have

avoided all IV chelation other than using DMPS for testing purposes.

>

> My endocrine system was severely hit, and a doctor specializing

in treating heavy metals had told me, prior to amalgam removal, that

by then I'd had so much cellular damage that only so much could be

done, but that my amalgams needed to come out right away.

>

---------------------------------

Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people

who know.

[Guest guest]

Would it be possible to get any of your doctors to consider sustained

release T3? I was on cytomel at one point and found that it was very

hard on my adrenals. When I switched to SRT3 I felt way better right

away.

>Adrenal issues always come to the forefront in stressful times (i.e.,

>my daughter's wedding last summer, family coming in for the holidays,

>etc.), and I bottom out when I need energy most.

>

Many of us can relate to that.

It is important to treat the adrenals first before the thyroid. I

know how difficult it is to find doctors who are willing to treat the

adrenals. Some members of our group have had some success (I found

one). Endocrinologists are not likely to be helpful. The

endocrinologist that I saw missed all 3 of my endocrine problems.

Fortunately, other doctors caught them.

> The literature on removing mercury that I have is harshest about

>DMSA, so it's surprising to hear it promoted. I thought it's hard on

>liver & kidneys, among other things.

When DMSA is used in low frequent doses as in Cutler's protocol it is

safe. The poor press about DMSA comes from doctors using excessive

infrequent doses. Cutler suggests using 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound. By

taking the doses at the half life blood levels are kept fairly

constant and there is a net movement of metals out. Other chelation

protocols call for as much as 10 mg/kg (4.5 mg/lb) once a day or once

every other day. Imagine if any other drug is used at a dose 10 times

what is needed. What happens when it is taken infrequently is it

stirs up lots of metals that simply can't get excreted all at once and

those are mostly redistributed doing more damage. It is inappropriate

use of DMSA that damages the liver, kidney, and so on (some because of

the metals that are stirred up).

> I've tried using ALA per protocols from IAOMT & others, but was

>never able to tolerate more than a few days on it (even as recently

>as August), which is why Andy's work sounds so interesting.

What were the IAOMT and other protocols? ALA must be dosed at 3 h

intervals or it will do more damage than good.

J

> >

> > I had my amalgams removed two years ago, and even though this has

> brought about a tremendous improvement in my health, I continue with

> a debilitating degree of fatigue.

> >

> > I had follow-up DMPS mercury challenge testing last summer,

> which had shown my mercury levels had come way down, still elevated

> beyond the 'normal' ranges, however. At this point, I found my lead

> levels were close to the remaining mercury level (also shown a year

> earlier in hair analysis). Something new that was showing up last

> summer was highly elevated arsenic levels. This seems to have been

> occurring since moving to the state of PA two years ago.

> >

> > I'm waiting for Andy's book on chelation protocol, but in the

> meantime would appreciate information or experience any of you may

> have regarding when IV EDTA chelation is appropriate. My doctor has

> been wanting me to get started on it, but I'm a skeptic and have

> avoided all IV chelation other than using DMPS for testing purposes.

> >

> > My endocrine system was severely hit, and a doctor specializing

> in treating heavy metals had told me, prior to amalgam removal, that

> by then I'd had so much cellular damage that only so much could be

> done, but that my amalgams needed to come out right away.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from

real people who know.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi . Thanks so much for responding. I will have to pull up the books I

used after my fillings were out to tell you what the dosage for ALA was (I have

both Huggins & IAOMT). I do remember only being able to find it in 100 mg doses

(?) and taking one per day. I'm glad I never stuck to using it, but I did

everything else that was recommended & had a wild & erratic endocrine response

in the first months. My T3 level shot up so high I was taken off thyroid for a

while, followed by a total plummet in a few weeks. While the T3 levels were so

high & I wasn't aware of it, I thought I'd experienced a full & very rapid

recovery. Doctors were confounded & reluctant to treat me with thyroid for a

full year, which was rough.

I brought up sustained release T3 with my doc last summer, but since she

hadn't heard of it, she wasn't comfortable doing anything about it. I'll take

the name of SRT3 with me when I next see her (or maybe my pharmacist could give

me literature I can pass on).

Everything I'm hearing about slow & low level dosage of a chelation agent

makes perfect sense & I appreciate your thoughts.

It's the low-dose stimulant response that's so unusual with me, but maybe it's

because no one else has been given this? As much as I don't want to take it, I

believe it's far better to continue with it for now because I have a whole

complex of health issues & fatigue without it. It allows me to live a normal

life on days I take it, but as with any medication I worry that over time it

will create new problems.

Joanne

lindajaytee wrote:

Would it be possible to get any of your doctors to consider sustained

release T3? I was on cytomel at one point and found that it was very

hard on my adrenals. When I switched to SRT3 I felt way better right

away.

>Adrenal issues always come to the forefront in stressful times (i.e.,

>my daughter's wedding last summer, family coming in for the holidays,

>etc.), and I bottom out when I need energy most.

>

Many of us can relate to that.

It is important to treat the adrenals first before the thyroid. I

know how difficult it is to find doctors who are willing to treat the

adrenals. Some members of our group have had some success (I found

one). Endocrinologists are not likely to be helpful. The

endocrinologist that I saw missed all 3 of my endocrine problems.

Fortunately, other doctors caught them.

> The literature on removing mercury that I have is harshest about

>DMSA, so it's surprising to hear it promoted. I thought it's hard on

>liver & kidneys, among other things.

When DMSA is used in low frequent doses as in Cutler's protocol it is

safe. The poor press about DMSA comes from doctors using excessive

infrequent doses. Cutler suggests using 1/8 to 1/2 mg per pound. By

taking the doses at the half life blood levels are kept fairly

constant and there is a net movement of metals out. Other chelation

protocols call for as much as 10 mg/kg (4.5 mg/lb) once a day or once

every other day. Imagine if any other drug is used at a dose 10 times

what is needed. What happens when it is taken infrequently is it

stirs up lots of metals that simply can't get excreted all at once and

those are mostly redistributed doing more damage. It is inappropriate

use of DMSA that damages the liver, kidney, and so on (some because of

the metals that are stirred up).

> I've tried using ALA per protocols from IAOMT & others, but was

>never able to tolerate more than a few days on it (even as recently

>as August), which is why Andy's work sounds so interesting.

What were the IAOMT and other protocols? ALA must be dosed at 3 h

intervals or it will do more damage than good.

J

> >

> > I had my amalgams removed two years ago, and even though this has

> brought about a tremendous improvement in my health, I continue with

> a debilitating degree of fatigue.

> >

> > I had follow-up DMPS mercury challenge testing last summer,

> which had shown my mercury levels had come way down, still elevated

> beyond the 'normal' ranges, however. At this point, I found my lead

> levels were close to the remaining mercury level (also shown a year

> earlier in hair analysis). Something new that was showing up last

> summer was highly elevated arsenic levels. This seems to have been

> occurring since moving to the state of PA two years ago.

> >

> > I'm waiting for Andy's book on chelation protocol, but in the

> meantime would appreciate information or experience any of you may

> have regarding when IV EDTA chelation is appropriate. My doctor has

> been wanting me to get started on it, but I'm a skeptic and have

> avoided all IV chelation other than using DMPS for testing purposes.

> >

> > My endocrine system was severely hit, and a doctor specializing

> in treating heavy metals had told me, prior to amalgam removal, that

> by then I'd had so much cellular damage that only so much could be

> done, but that my amalgams needed to come out right away.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from

real people who know.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Joanne. You've gotten some good responses already, I'll just add my 2

cents!---------Jackie

In frequent-dose-chelation , rick laabs wrote:

Thanks, Jan.

I started with Armour & didn't get significant results from it, even going to

a high dose, so I was retested & put on Cytomel. This happened before switching

to a doctor that was attentive to adrenals & mercury issues. Most doctors since

have wanted my Cytomel at lower levels than that which will offer enough

physical response. I tried Armour again after my fillings were out & had detoxed

mercury levels down quite a bit, but I was barely conscious on it for 2-3 months

& it was impossible to continue to work with it. I think thyroid's a problem for

me on many different levels. I did join the Natural Thyroid group a while back,

but it seemed basically pro-Armour. I'm allergic to many foods & suspect that

may be why I resist it.

------------Yes they do seem basically pro-Armour, and does very well on

her SRT3. Everyone is different, and you have to do what's best for you. Does

your current doctor dose you by your symptoms so you're feeling

well?------Jackie

As to adrenals, my experience has been that it's far easier to find

professionals who know something about mercury than it is to find those who

really understand adrenal glands.

---------I haven't found either, and the ones who think/say they know about

mercury, don't know as much as they should, so be careful!--------Jackie

One can only spend so much time with hobbies, Tai Chi, rest & and a schedule

of supplements! Adrenal issues always come to the forefront in stressful times

(i.e., my daughter's wedding last summer, family coming in for the holidays,

etc.), and I bottom out when I need energy most.

---------I usually crash after the event. Since you haven't been able to get

a doctor to prescribe HC, you could try the supplement Isocort, which is

supposed to have 2.5mg of cortisol per pellet, so it's easy to adjust dosage.

You can get it without a prescription, and I have been using it for a number of

months. Here's the link: http://www.naturalnutritionals.com/bz106.html

HC or Cortef would probably be best, but you can certainly try this to see if

it helps.-------Jackie

The literature on removing mercury that I have is harshest about DMSA, so it's

surprising to hear it promoted. I thought it's hard on liver & kidneys, among

other things.

------------I think Andy does prefer oral DMPS, but it requires a

prescription, which many of us can't get. And using DMSA per Andy's protocol is

much safer. I have been using frequent, low-dose DMSA per his protocol, and

haven't had any problems and feel much better while on a round. I recall Andy

saying that one of the worst protocols is taking 500mg of DMSA every other day,

so that is probably what you are reading about.--------Jackie

Unfortunately, I was treated for candida before I was treated for mercury &

amalgams. This probably caused untold damage that might not have been necessary.

I'd been on 3 years of tetracycline that wiped out my immune system in HS, so

candida had many years to do its work. Killing it off must have unleashed a lot

of mercury (I had fillings in all of my teeth & many repairs had been done over

the years) & looking back, it's surprising I survived the months of die off.

There were times I couldn't move limbs! It's now been 4 1/2 years since first

switching out of the medical mainstream & beginning treatment for the " real "

issues. A very rocky road, but much of my life is back.

I've tried using ALA per protocols from IAOMT & others, but was never able to

tolerate more than a few days on it (even as recently as August), which is why

Andy's work sounds so interesting.

-----------Not sure what those other protocols were, but ALA has to be taken

properly by a toxic person, or it will do more harm than good. You may need to

do some chelation with just DMPS or DMSA first to lower your body burden, before

trying to add in ALA. Especially since you have done DMPS-IV's, which probably

stirred up alot of mercury and redistributed it who-knows-where. I would

believe Andy when it comes to this stuff. I had an alt. doc. give me a supp

that contained 100mg of ALA and I was supposed to take it 3 times a day (for

other stuff) and this was BEFORE I had my amalgams out, and I went to her

because I told her I was concerned about mercury and wanted my fillings out and

to chelate. Well, she evidently didn't know that ALA is a chelator that crosses

the BBB, and should never be given to a mercury toxic person who still has their

fillings in! So beware of doctors who say/think they know what they're doing,

because many of them don't! Anyway, I took her supps for 3 days, would get a

headache within half an hour of taking them, and by the third day I had blood in

my urine, so needless to say, I fired her! Luckily, I already had Andy's book

AI, and figured out she didn't know what she was doing, and then a few months

later I found these groups, and that has been the best thing for me. The

collective knowledge on these boards is amazing! And Andy's protocol just makes

sense to me.-----------Jackie

One of the reasons for lack of estrogen & other hormones is that I had a

complete hysterectomy at an early age. This was likely inappropriate treatment

and thyroid testing & medication at that time was more than certainly warranted.

For the ten years prior I'd been asking for thyroid testing (since my mid-20's),

but was always told people my age don't have thyroid problems! In any event, my

adrenals haven't been strong enough to pick up for the lack of other hormones

and it's been nearly 15 years since the surgery. I'm at the point where

continuing synthetic hormones is not recommended, but too young (still in 40's)

for the intellectual deficit I face without them (I've tried several times).

---------How about bio-identical hormones?------------Jackie

It's very, very frustrating to even consider seeking out yet one more doctor.

---------I totally hear you on this one! If I didn't need hormone help, I

wouldn't even bother! I am totally comfortable now with doing chelation on my

own, and I will not let any doctor deter me from doing Andy's protocol, but I do

need hormone help, and am trying a new doctor on Dec. 13th, so I hope it goes

well, because I am also very frustrated by these doctors that know less than

what I have learned here! At least this one is covered by my insurance, and is

supposed to use bio-identical hormones, so we'll see how it goes. If she

doesn't work out, I am strongly considering going to see in

Seattle, who works with Andy.----------Jackie

The last endrocinologist told me I'd been misled and had been seeing 'quacks'

for years & didn't need any medication or supplements, all in the span of a 15

minute initial appointment. Life is too short for this.

-----------Your endo is the quack, I have heard nothing but bad things about

endos on these boards. Don't waste your time there.-------------Jackie

The nearest larger city (Pittsburgh) is 3 hours away, and I can't consider

driving alone. We moved into a rural area over 2 years ago, which has had its

health benefits, but this area is known for it's hostility to

natural/alternative medicine. I'm amazed I've found the doctor I'm seeing at a

distance of 90 minutes away.

-----------In the links or files section, there is a Dr. in Lansdale,

PA, who is recommended by Andy. You could ask if anyone has been to him. It

might be worth checking into, because it's very hard to find a doctor who

follows his protocol, or at least keep him in mind, if your current doctor

doesn't work out.-------Jackie

Joanne

(The rest deleted to shorten up the message)

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[Guest guest]

I responded to another post, but wanted to make some additional comments here,

below.-------Jackie

In frequent-dose-chelation , rick laabs wrote:

I had my amalgams removed two years ago, and even though this has brought

about a tremendous improvement in my health, I continue with a debilitating

degree of fatigue.

---------Fatigue is still one of my biggest problems, and I think it is

adrenal/thyroid, which I haven't gotten appropriately treated yet. Everyone

here says it will make a big difference in how you feel. Just some adrenal

support has helped quite a bit so far, especially in times of

stress.----------Jackie

I had follow-up DMPS mercury challenge testing last summer,

---------How did you feel after this? Many people have reported bad reactions

to these, that's why all the warnings. Andy warns against them

also.------Jackie

which had shown my mercury levels had come way down, still elevated beyond

the 'normal' ranges, however. At this point, I found my lead levels were close

to the remaining mercury level (also shown a year earlier in hair analysis).

Something new that was showing up last summer was highly elevated arsenic

levels. This seems to have been occurring since moving to the state of PA two

years ago.

------------DMSA will chelate out the mercury and lead, and is considered

better for lead than EDTA. ALA will chelate out the arsenic, as well as get the

mercury out of your brain. If you have your own well, you may want to test your

water for arsenic. It is naturally occurring in some parts of the

country.---------Jackie

I'm waiting for Andy's book on chelation protocol, but in the meantime would

appreciate information or experience any of you may have regarding when IV EDTA

chelation is appropriate. My doctor has been wanting me to get started on it,

but I'm a skeptic and have avoided all IV chelation other than using DMPS for

testing purposes.

-----------I think the only time Andy recommends EDTA chelation is for clogged

arteries. He feels DMPS, DMSA, and ALA are the best chelators for heavy metals.

And Prof. Boyd Haley has some concern about EDTA combining with mercury to make

an even worse compound, and Huggins has quit using it for chelation also.

Haley's website is www.altcorp.com --------Jackie

My endocrine system was severely hit, and a doctor specializing in treating

heavy metals had told me, prior to amalgam removal, that by then I'd had so much

cellular damage that only so much could be done, but that my amalgams needed to

come out right away.

-----------Andy makes no guarantees as to level of recovery, but I believe his

protocol is our best chance. Also, his supplement recommendations has alot to

do with giving the body what it needs to repair itself. I would hope by now

that you don't believe everything doctors tell you!----------Jackie

Natural means (herbals, supplements, rest, avoidance of stress, etc.) of

improving adrenal function haven't been successful after 3-4 years. I supplement

DHEA and my saliva cortisol levels follow the low end of normal on a graph

chart, bottoming to " 0 " by evening (and this testing was done on the best of

days).

-----------My cortisol levels did the same thing, and using Isocort has helped

alot. I gave you the link in another post. It sounds like you have tried other

things, and definitely need stronger support. If you can't get a doctor to

prescribe HC or Cortef, try the Isocort.------------Jackie

I'm on Cytomel for thyroid (30-35 mcg daily), and although I do significantly

better on a higher dose (50 mcg), T3 blood test levels can run too high if I

take more than this. (Other forms of thyroid are not effective.) Without

Cytomel, I'm practically in a coma with low pulse, BP, body temp, etc. I

consistently run very high levels of antibodies for Hashimoto's & suspect the

thyroid disease was present for 20-30 years prior to diagnosis.

----------Maybe the SRT3 would work better for you, like suggested (and

TK?), and would keep your blood levels more even? Sounds like it's worth a try,

if you can get the doctor to do it. And with mercury, lab tests don't always

mean a whole lot, so its better to dose based on symptoms, than relying only on

labs.--------Jackie

I actually function quite normally most days because I take a very low dose of

a stimulant (Adderall) together with thyroid. It's as if thyroid doesn't quite

do it's job without it. To avoid becoming adapted to stimulant medication,

however, I only do this combination 4-5 days a week. The other days are

essentially lost days after 10-11 am due to fatigue.

------------Like others have said, you need adrenal support for the thyroid

hormone to work/get into your cells. So you probably need cortisol in some

form.-------Jackie

When I approach doctors (and I've tried three of them this past year, one an

endocrinologist), they are all quick to write a script for a stimulant, which I

know is supposed to be hard on adrenals, yet none will even discuss low-dose

cortisol as an alternative.

------------Yes, hard to find doctors who understand it. suggested a

really good book about this, " The Safe Uses of Cortisol " by Jefferies. It

explains why doctors don't use it or understand its benefits. It's a very good

read. We'll have to see what the new doctor I'm seeing next week has to say

about it.--------Jackie

I've researched this to death, and find there is a form of congenital

hypothyroidism that links to attention deficit disorder and that combined

thyroid/stimulant medication is actually the treatment. If this is the case with

me, it may partly explain why I accumulated heavy metals in the first place.

With sufficient metabolic levels & the right supplements, it appears I've been

able to detoxify fairly well.

I don't produce significant levels of estradiol, progesterone, or

testosterone. Because natural estrogen creams don't product measurable levels or

physical response (it's notably important for me for memory/mental processing),

I use a synthetic patch. I get progesterone in compounded cream form, and seem

to make enough testosterone by supplementing DHEA. All this seems to relate to

very poor adrenal function.

----------Yes, I'm not an expert on all these hormones, but adrenal function

probably has something to do with it. Andy also says that your pituitary and

hypothalamus get poisoned with mercury and don't work right, causing all kinds

of endocrine problems, that usually don't show up or jump out on tests. So the

HPA axis is affected and is out of whack.-----------Jackie

My diet is very clean - organic, minimally processed, avoiding or rotating

foods I've been allergic to, and I'm attentive to body pH levels. I'm very

sensitive to numerous chemicals and live in a very well cleared up environment

as a result, although it's a struggle to avoid formaldehyde! My immune system is

well recovered & digestion is now very good with enzyme supplements. I've

consistently been diligent about getting appropriate exercise. I continue with

supplements that are recommended to support heavy metal detoxification. It's

getting to be a very long time to continue with the expense of so many

supplements!

----------Once you get Andy's book, review his supplement suggestions. And

yes I feel your pain about the expense of these! I'd like to be spending that

money on other things, but if I never get well, it won't really matter.

Hopefully down the road, we won't need so many.---------Jackie

Questions:

1) Is there case history showing stimulant medication appropriate in

situations like mine, wherein it greatly improves physical fatigue levels?

(Note: if it's not taken for long periods of time, fibromyalgia symptoms become

a factor.)

-------I don't know.--------Jackie

2) Should I continue to try to pursue low-dose cortisol?

--------IMO, yes. Or try the Isocort.-----------Jackie

3) Is IV EDTA appropriate? Safe? What results might I see when there seems to

be a mix of metal accumulations? Is EDTA the chelation agent of choice with

mixed metal toxicity?

------------I have no personal experience with it, but my understanding is NO,

don't use it. Other chelators are safer and will work better according to info

here and from Andy and others.---------Jackie

I do look forward to studying Andy's books in detail, but in the meantime, any

thoughts & ideas are appreciated.

------------Yes, lots of info, can be overwhelming, especially if you have

brain fog. Can't absorb it all at once. Best to keep referring to it and ask

questions here. It had the best description of what it's like to be mercury

poisoned, that I had read anywhere, IMO. And had the best and most detailed,

practical advice about what to do and try also. Well worth the

money.----------Jackie

Thanks so much,

Joanne

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Thanks Joanne. Just a note that Andy's book is great, but can be overwhelming,

because there is sooooo much info in it! Also, people here recommended that I

start out at even lower doses than the book suggests, and that was very good

info for me. I am one of them that only tolerates very low doses, and it was

very helpful to have knowledgeable people here help with that. If I would have

only had the book and tried starting out at 50mg, I would have been in big

trouble, and very likely would have quit. It was suggested that I start at

12.5mg of DMSA, and this was very good advice for me. So just a heads

up.-----------Jackie

In frequent-dose-chelation , rick laabs wrote:

Thanks, Jackie. Good luck with your new doc. I've done very well with

bioidentical hormone creams, but the estrogen doesn't even show up in my blood

work. The compounding pharmacist said he's had another patient where that's

happened.

My book should arrive late this week & it'll be good to start reading the

details on this protocol. I'm also a skeptic about ordering things that are

usually prescribed without a doctor involved, so the PA doctor reference is

great.

Joanne

Jackie wrote:

Hi Joanne. You've gotten some good responses already, I'll just add my 2

cents!---------Jackie

In frequent-dose-chelation , rick laabs wrote:

Thanks, Jan.

I started with Armour & didn't get significant results from it, even going to

a high dose, so I was retested & put on Cytomel. This happened before switching

to a doctor that was attentive to adrenals & mercury issues. Most doctors since

have wanted my Cytomel at lower levels than that which will offer enough

physical response. I tried Armour again after my fillings were out & had detoxed

mercury levels down quite a bit, but I was barely conscious on it for 2-3 months

& it was impossible to continue to work with it. I think thyroid's a problem for

me on many different levels. I did join the Natural Thyroid group a while back,

but it seemed basically pro-Armour. I'm allergic to many foods & suspect that

may be why I resist it.

------------Yes they do seem basically pro-Armour, and does very well on

her SRT3. Everyone is different, and you have to do what's best for you. Does

your current doctor dose you by your symptoms so you're feeling

well?------Jackie

As to adrenals, my experience has been that it's far easier to find

professionals who know something about mercury than it is to find those who

really understand adrenal glands.

---------I haven't found either, and the ones who think/say they know about

mercury, don't know as much as they should, so be careful!--------Jackie

One can only spend so much time with hobbies, Tai Chi, rest & and a schedule

of supplements! Adrenal issues always come to the forefront in stressful times

(i.e., my daughter's wedding last summer, family coming in for the holidays,

etc.), and I bottom out when I need energy most.

---------I usually crash after the event. Since you haven't been able to get a

doctor to prescribe HC, you could try the supplement Isocort, which is supposed

to have 2.5mg of cortisol per pellet, so it's easy to adjust dosage. You can get

it without a prescription, and I have been using it for a number of months.

Here's the link: http://www.naturalnutritionals.com/bz106.html

HC or Cortef would probably be best, but you can certainly try this to see if

it helps.-------Jackie

The literature on removing mercury that I have is harshest about DMSA, so it's

surprising to hear it promoted. I thought it's hard on liver & kidneys, among

other things.

------------I think Andy does prefer oral DMPS, but it requires a

prescription, which many of us can't get. And using DMSA per Andy's protocol is

much safer. I have been using frequent, low-dose DMSA per his protocol, and

haven't had any problems and feel much better while on a round. I recall Andy

saying that one of the worst protocols is taking 500mg of DMSA every other day,

so that is probably what you are reading about.--------Jackie

Unfortunately, I was treated for candida before I was treated for mercury &

amalgams. This probably caused untold damage that might not have been necessary.

I'd been on 3 years of tetracycline that wiped out my immune system in HS, so

candida had many years to do its work. Killing it off must have unleashed a lot

of mercury (I had fillings in all of my teeth & many repairs had been done over

the years) & looking back, it's surprising I survived the months of die off.

There were times I couldn't move limbs! It's now been 4 1/2 years since first

switching out of the medical mainstream & beginning treatment for the " real "

issues. A very rocky road, but much of my life is back.

I've tried using ALA per protocols from IAOMT & others, but was never able to

tolerate more than a few days on it (even as recently as August), which is why

Andy's work sounds so interesting.

-----------Not sure what those other protocols were, but ALA has to be taken

properly by a toxic person, or it will do more harm than good. You may need to

do some chelation with just DMPS or DMSA first to lower your body burden, before

trying to add in ALA. Especially since you have done DMPS-IV's, which probably

stirred up alot of mercury and redistributed it who-knows-where. I would believe

Andy when it comes to this stuff. I had an alt. doc. give me a supp that

contained 100mg of ALA and I was supposed to take it 3 times a day (for other

stuff) and this was BEFORE I had my amalgams out, and I went to her because I

told her I was concerned about mercury and wanted my fillings out and to

chelate. Well, she evidently didn't know that ALA is a chelator that crosses the

BBB, and should never be given to a mercury toxic person who still has their

fillings in! So beware of doctors who say/think they know what they're doing,

because many of them don't! Anyway, I took her supps

for 3 days, would get a headache within half an hour of taking them, and by

the third day I had blood in my urine, so needless to say, I fired her! Luckily,

I already had Andy's book AI, and figured out she didn't know what she was

doing, and then a few months later I found these groups, and that has been the

best thing for me. The collective knowledge on these boards is amazing! And

Andy's protocol just makes sense to me.-----------Jackie

One of the reasons for lack of estrogen & other hormones is that I had a

complete hysterectomy at an early age. This was likely inappropriate treatment

and thyroid testing & medication at that time was more than certainly warranted.

For the ten years prior I'd been asking for thyroid testing (since my mid-20's),

but was always told people my age don't have thyroid problems! In any event, my

adrenals haven't been strong enough to pick up for the lack of other hormones

and it's been nearly 15 years since the surgery. I'm at the point where

continuing synthetic hormones is not recommended, but too young (still in 40's)

for the intellectual deficit I face without them (I've tried several times).

---------How about bio-identical hormones?------------Jackie

It's very, very frustrating to even consider seeking out yet one more doctor.

---------I totally hear you on this one! If I didn't need hormone help, I

wouldn't even bother! I am totally comfortable now with doing chelation on my

own, and I will not let any doctor deter me from doing Andy's protocol, but I do

need hormone help, and am trying a new doctor on Dec. 13th, so I hope it goes

well, because I am also very frustrated by these doctors that know less than

what I have learned here! At least this one is covered by my insurance, and is

supposed to use bio-identical hormones, so we'll see how it goes. If she doesn't

work out, I am strongly considering going to see in Seattle, who

works with Andy.----------Jackie

The last endrocinologist told me I'd been misled and had been seeing 'quacks'

for years & didn't need any medication or supplements, all in the span of a 15

minute initial appointment. Life is too short for this.

-----------Your endo is the quack, I have heard nothing but bad things about

endos on these boards. Don't waste your time there.-------------Jackie

The nearest larger city (Pittsburgh) is 3 hours away, and I can't consider

driving alone. We moved into a rural area over 2 years ago, which has had its

health benefits, but this area is known for it's hostility to

natural/alternative medicine. I'm amazed I've found the doctor I'm seeing at a

distance of 90 minutes away.

-----------In the links or files section, there is a Dr. in Lansdale,

PA, who is recommended by Andy. You could ask if anyone has been to him. It

might be worth checking into, because it's very hard to find a doctor who

follows his protocol, or at least keep him in mind, if your current doctor

doesn't work out.-------Jackie

Joanne

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[Guest guest]

Thanks Joanne. Just a note that Andy's book is great, but can be overwhelming,

because there is sooooo much info in it! Also, people here recommended that I

start out at even lower doses than the book suggests, and that was very good

info for me. I am one of them that only tolerates very low doses, and it was

very helpful to have knowledgeable people here help with that. If I would have

only had the book and tried starting out at 50mg, I would have been in big

trouble, and very likely would have quit. It was suggested that I start at

12.5mg of DMSA, and this was very good advice for me. So just a heads

up.-----------Jackie

In frequent-dose-chelation , rick laabs wrote:

Thanks, Jackie. Good luck with your new doc. I've done very well with

bioidentical hormone creams, but the estrogen doesn't even show up in my blood

work. The compounding pharmacist said he's had another patient where that's

happened.

My book should arrive late this week & it'll be good to start reading the

details on this protocol. I'm also a skeptic about ordering things that are

usually prescribed without a doctor involved, so the PA doctor reference is

great.

Joanne

Jackie wrote:

Hi Joanne. You've gotten some good responses already, I'll just add my 2

cents!---------Jackie

In frequent-dose-chelation , rick laabs wrote:

Thanks, Jan.

I started with Armour & didn't get significant results from it, even going to

a high dose, so I was retested & put on Cytomel. This happened before switching

to a doctor that was attentive to adrenals & mercury issues. Most doctors since

have wanted my Cytomel at lower levels than that which will offer enough

physical response. I tried Armour again after my fillings were out & had detoxed

mercury levels down quite a bit, but I was barely conscious on it for 2-3 months

& it was impossible to continue to work with it. I think thyroid's a problem for

me on many different levels. I did join the Natural Thyroid group a while back,

but it seemed basically pro-Armour. I'm allergic to many foods & suspect that

may be why I resist it.

------------Yes they do seem basically pro-Armour, and does very well on

her SRT3. Everyone is different, and you have to do what's best for you. Does

your current doctor dose you by your symptoms so you're feeling

well?------Jackie

As to adrenals, my experience has been that it's far easier to find

professionals who know something about mercury than it is to find those who

really understand adrenal glands.

---------I haven't found either, and the ones who think/say they know about

mercury, don't know as much as they should, so be careful!--------Jackie

One can only spend so much time with hobbies, Tai Chi, rest & and a schedule

of supplements! Adrenal issues always come to the forefront in stressful times

(i.e., my daughter's wedding last summer, family coming in for the holidays,

etc.), and I bottom out when I need energy most.

---------I usually crash after the event. Since you haven't been able to get a

doctor to prescribe HC, you could try the supplement Isocort, which is supposed

to have 2.5mg of cortisol per pellet, so it's easy to adjust dosage. You can get

it without a prescription, and I have been using it for a number of months.

Here's the link: http://www.naturalnutritionals.com/bz106.html

HC or Cortef would probably be best, but you can certainly try this to see if

it helps.-------Jackie

The literature on removing mercury that I have is harshest about DMSA, so it's

surprising to hear it promoted. I thought it's hard on liver & kidneys, among

other things.

------------I think Andy does prefer oral DMPS, but it requires a

prescription, which many of us can't get. And using DMSA per Andy's protocol is

much safer. I have been using frequent, low-dose DMSA per his protocol, and

haven't had any problems and feel much better while on a round. I recall Andy

saying that one of the worst protocols is taking 500mg of DMSA every other day,

so that is probably what you are reading about.--------Jackie

Unfortunately, I was treated for candida before I was treated for mercury &

amalgams. This probably caused untold damage that might not have been necessary.

I'd been on 3 years of tetracycline that wiped out my immune system in HS, so

candida had many years to do its work. Killing it off must have unleashed a lot

of mercury (I had fillings in all of my teeth & many repairs had been done over

the years) & looking back, it's surprising I survived the months of die off.

There were times I couldn't move limbs! It's now been 4 1/2 years since first

switching out of the medical mainstream & beginning treatment for the " real "

issues. A very rocky road, but much of my life is back.

I've tried using ALA per protocols from IAOMT & others, but was never able to

tolerate more than a few days on it (even as recently as August), which is why

Andy's work sounds so interesting.

-----------Not sure what those other protocols were, but ALA has to be taken

properly by a toxic person, or it will do more harm than good. You may need to

do some chelation with just DMPS or DMSA first to lower your body burden, before

trying to add in ALA. Especially since you have done DMPS-IV's, which probably

stirred up alot of mercury and redistributed it who-knows-where. I would believe

Andy when it comes to this stuff. I had an alt. doc. give me a supp that

contained 100mg of ALA and I was supposed to take it 3 times a day (for other

stuff) and this was BEFORE I had my amalgams out, and I went to her because I

told her I was concerned about mercury and wanted my fillings out and to

chelate. Well, she evidently didn't know that ALA is a chelator that crosses the

BBB, and should never be given to a mercury toxic person who still has their

fillings in! So beware of doctors who say/think they know what they're doing,

because many of them don't! Anyway, I took her supps

for 3 days, would get a headache within half an hour of taking them, and by

the third day I had blood in my urine, so needless to say, I fired her! Luckily,

I already had Andy's book AI, and figured out she didn't know what she was

doing, and then a few months later I found these groups, and that has been the

best thing for me. The collective knowledge on these boards is amazing! And

Andy's protocol just makes sense to me.-----------Jackie

One of the reasons for lack of estrogen & other hormones is that I had a

complete hysterectomy at an early age. This was likely inappropriate treatment

and thyroid testing & medication at that time was more than certainly warranted.

For the ten years prior I'd been asking for thyroid testing (since my mid-20's),

but was always told people my age don't have thyroid problems! In any event, my

adrenals haven't been strong enough to pick up for the lack of other hormones

and it's been nearly 15 years since the surgery. I'm at the point where

continuing synthetic hormones is not recommended, but too young (still in 40's)

for the intellectual deficit I face without them (I've tried several times).

---------How about bio-identical hormones?------------Jackie

It's very, very frustrating to even consider seeking out yet one more doctor.

---------I totally hear you on this one! If I didn't need hormone help, I

wouldn't even bother! I am totally comfortable now with doing chelation on my

own, and I will not let any doctor deter me from doing Andy's protocol, but I do

need hormone help, and am trying a new doctor on Dec. 13th, so I hope it goes

well, because I am also very frustrated by these doctors that know less than

what I have learned here! At least this one is covered by my insurance, and is

supposed to use bio-identical hormones, so we'll see how it goes. If she doesn't

work out, I am strongly considering going to see in Seattle, who

works with Andy.----------Jackie

The last endrocinologist told me I'd been misled and had been seeing 'quacks'

for years & didn't need any medication or supplements, all in the span of a 15

minute initial appointment. Life is too short for this.

-----------Your endo is the quack, I have heard nothing but bad things about

endos on these boards. Don't waste your time there.-------------Jackie

The nearest larger city (Pittsburgh) is 3 hours away, and I can't consider

driving alone. We moved into a rural area over 2 years ago, which has had its

health benefits, but this area is known for it's hostility to

natural/alternative medicine. I'm amazed I've found the doctor I'm seeing at a

distance of 90 minutes away.

-----------In the links or files section, there is a Dr. in Lansdale,

PA, who is recommended by Andy. You could ask if anyone has been to him. It

might be worth checking into, because it's very hard to find a doctor who

follows his protocol, or at least keep him in mind, if your current doctor

doesn't work out.-------Jackie

Joanne

(The rest deleted to shorten up the message)

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