Life the universe and everything!

April 28, 2001

Hi Mona

I really appreciated your reply to the posting I sent on Antidepressants. I'm glad there are people out there, and there appear to be quite a few, who know how important it is to stay out of psyche hospitals!

I will continue to take my medication because I know it has improved my health although I do continue to struggle in many ways which brings me on neatly to the reason I decided to open my gob(mouth) again!!!!

Funnily enough I'm not American and even more odd I don't live there! Strange but never the less true! I do in fact dwell in a land of rain grey days cream teas and Bingo! Yep good old England!!

So I'm British for my sins, or if you want to be pedantic about things second generation Irish. I say this because things here seem to be so inherently different than in the USA. Laws, politics, and perhaps to an existent beliefs and motivations especially regarding so called addiction.

In this country you don't have to worry much about addiction being considered an illness. Most professionals don't recognise it as such. If you want to get into a decent treatment centre for help you have to have the money to do so. You have to be middle class and well off or you have to live in a town where the local authority has bags of dosh(money) which is unlikely.

There are alcohol and drug advisory services available but the waiting lists fade off into infinity. I have tried to get help via a local organisation called ADAS Alcohol and Drug Advisory Service the waiting list is anything from 3- 6 months. That's a long time when you're desperate for support.

As I have already said I have a long history of mental health problems and have spent a good deal of time in hospitals alcohol has exhasabated the problem as you might expect. Of course phsyc hospitals in this country are not geared to help people with chemical dependency and people like myself who full under the unfortunate label of dual diagnoses are left out in the cold. Treatment centres won't take us cos we don't exhibit the right kind of madness and hospitals don't want us cos we are seen as weak individuals with self inflicted problems that are taking up money and room from an already overstretched health service. In fact the only place that takes most addicts is prison! Still costing the state money of course!

My point to all this is that places to go to for help are pretty slim pickings. And yes it does seem that the predominate organisation to provide that help is indeed the AA/NA fellowships. Even though you'd be hard pushed to get a doctor to subscribe to the illness theory. I think the reason is obvious. The fellowship is a voluntary organisation it doesn't cost the government a thing. Except when providing grants to allow individuals to be admitted to very rundown local authority controlled centres and I only know of one such place. Success and failure don't come into it, but Socially unsympathetic causes and unpopular political hot potatoes do! Social degenerates are not a good bet to inhance your political popularity!

What am I trying to say? what I'm trying to say is that I feel up the creek without a paddle! I know this country has a better health care system than most, I mean I don't have to pay for medical care if I don't mind waiting! Actually I think we're pretty damn lucky. This country has a good welfare system too compared to most. I'm not working I've been on disability living allowance for some time now and I am well taken care of, for that I have to say I am grateful. So in a lot of ways I don't have much to moan about do I? Nope!

Never-the-less I still feel stranded. I don't know of any other alternatives to the 12 step programme but I struggle so much with its philosophy. I don't want to get religion, be saved by some unknown (or known depending on your point of view) omnipotent entity, or grapple with an enforced code of morality not to mention character defects in order to be free of mainly alcohol. I don't want to be told to pray if I believe and pray if I don't believe because I most certainly don't believe and for the past five years have been trying to explain this to people!

Of course it's not just the god side of things that bother me. The fellowship is very dogmatic and I find that so difficult at times. I do have some friends in the fellowship that respect my ideas, ok sometimes they shake their heads at me as though there's no hope (maybe there isn't!) but on the whole they don't give me a hard time. So I guess I'm lucky, and the fellowship over here doesn't seem to be as controlling or as powerful in fact sometimes it's not even that much of a fellowship at least in my town. At the moment I'm half in half out and it's a horrible place to be I'm also struggling with staying off drink. I keep making the descion to stop drinking then I keep changing my mind causing problems for myself. I don't know where else to go in my town for support.

Also I feel isolated now that I'm not seeing fellowship friends but its horrible because I feel that those friendships are only possible if I agree with their beliefs or at the very least don't express my own opinions. Is that a good basis for friendship? On the other hand these people do know what it's like to cope with addictive problems and they seem to understand to a certain extent the pull alcohol has on me. Of course they've had their obsession removed by the masters of the universe, gods, god, energies, goddesses, friendly demons, angles, and your common garden fairies so they're sorted right?

Ok so I'm being cynical but hey I'm drowning here. I can't seem to get the motivation to want to be kind to myself. So a couple of nights ago I went to a meeting and it was good to see people. I thought great this thing works for them and what ever gets you through right? Who am I to say what's right and wrong? But it's a stop gap for me until I find something else but I don't know where to look.

Anyway I'm glad I can write this stuff down and send it to you without being tarred and feathered for it!!!

Sorry it's such waffle but there you go just some unadulterated rhetoric to chew over when you've nothing better to do!

see you

Sue

April 28, 2001

Ok so I'm being cynical but hey I'm drowning here. I can't seem to get the motivation to want to be kind to myself. So a couple of nights ago I went to a meeting and it was good to see people. I thought great this thing works for them and what ever gets you through right? Who am I to say what's right and wrong? But it's a stop gap for me until I find something else but I don't know where to look.

have you tried LifeRing Secular REcovery (an offshoot of Secular Organizations for Sobriety) aaat unhooked.com? I'm a member and convenor of the Tuesday night chat meetings. We have European, Australian and Indian members in our online membership, and a ish chap hosts a meeting on what would be 2 in the afternoon here in the states.

Also, there are f2f LSR/SOS meetings in the UK, but I'm not sure when or where. But I am sure you could find out.

There are alternatives to AA madness. Check us out!

--Mona--

April 28, 2001

In a message dated 4/28/01 6:51:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

sam.panicattack@... writes:

> Ok so I'm being cynical but hey I'm drowning here. I can't seem to get the

> motivation to want to be kind to myself. So a couple of nights ago I went

> to a meeting and it was good to see people. I thought great this thing

> works for them and what ever gets you through right? Who am I to say

> what's right and wrong? But it's a stop gap for me until I find something

> else but I don't know where to look.

>

There's something called SMART Recovery which has regular meetings in many

areas. Look up smartrecovery.org

Neil

April 29, 2001

> So I'm British for my sins, or if you want to be pedantic about

things second generation Irish. I say this because things here seem

to be so inherently different than in the USA. Laws, politics, and

perhaps to an existent beliefs and motivations especially regarding

so called addiction.

>

> Sue

Sue, There are a few people who hang around here who are trying to

set up " smart " recovery groups in the UK. I suspect they're just

not " IN " at the moment, though I'm sure they will at some stage! ;-)

I would certainly commend them too you - Stick around or meanwhile

you might look (or join in) at:

http://www.topica.com/lists/SMARTRUK

I don't seem to need a support group these days, but I can relate to

your feelings re. dealings with the UK NHS and our " alcohol system " !

It is sometimes difficult to convey to non Brits just what it feels

like to have *no* support options available, even if you're willing

and eager to accept them. I was once chided for ever being so stupid

as to attend AA - but my excuse is that (ironically) it was nice at

the time to have someone - even AA, interested! That said, I don't

subscribe to the view that we do AA-lite over here, but I do feel it

can be a hard choice when the average GP hopes you and your problem

will go away, employers try to quietly get rid of you, even " drop-in "

centres offer only the canonical months of waiting. And they wonder

why we *seem* to winge a lot. lol

On a brighter note, I was helped initially with abstinence via the

Acamprosate route. You might check out the possibilities with your GP

on this too. I still bang the drum on this one, but I suspect that my

GP still doesn't think about this as an earlier option to explore...

Here's to a time of greater enlightenment all round! ;-)

Regards,

Mack

May 1, 2001

Hi Mack

thanks for your support I apprecate it. I'm going to check out the sight

addy you sent me for SMART recovery and see what it says.

Cheers then

Sue

Re: Life the universe and everything!

>

> > So I'm British for my sins, or if you want to be pedantic about

> things second generation Irish. I say this because things here seem

> to be so inherently different than in the USA. Laws, politics, and

> perhaps to an existent beliefs and motivations especially regarding

> so called addiction.

> >

> > Sue

>

> Sue, There are a few people who hang around here who are trying to

> set up " smart " recovery groups in the UK. I suspect they're just

> not " IN " at the moment, though I'm sure they will at some stage! ;-)

> I would certainly commend them too you - Stick around or meanwhile

> you might look (or join in) at:

>

> http://www.topica.com/lists/SMARTRUK

>

> I don't seem to need a support group these days, but I can relate to

> your feelings re. dealings with the UK NHS and our " alcohol system " !

> It is sometimes difficult to convey to non Brits just what it feels

> like to have *no* support options available, even if you're willing

> and eager to accept them. I was once chided for ever being so stupid

> as to attend AA - but my excuse is that (ironically) it was nice at

> the time to have someone - even AA, interested! That said, I don't

> subscribe to the view that we do AA-lite over here, but I do feel it

> can be a hard choice when the average GP hopes you and your problem

> will go away, employers try to quietly get rid of you, even " drop-in "

> centres offer only the canonical months of waiting. And they wonder

> why we *seem* to winge a lot. lol

>

> On a brighter note, I was helped initially with abstinence via the

> Acamprosate route. You might check out the possibilities with your GP

> on this too. I still bang the drum on this one, but I suspect that my

> GP still doesn't think about this as an earlier option to explore...

> Here's to a time of greater enlightenment all round! ;-)

>

> Regards,

>

> Mack

>

May 1, 2001