Re: All I wanted was..........

March 22, 2001

> Hi,

>

> Thanks for the site. Having been a former mental health

> administrator, I found it enlightening. I agree with much of it's

> contents.

>

> I do wonder how or if this would be of help to me. I am not on any

> psytropic medications. I take herbal supplements for my OCD.

>

> Do you think this doctor would have an opinion regarding my

> prescription pain medication situation?

>

> CAG

CAG

I offered the links because I knew Breeding is readily available

through the yahoo group. It is one of numerous groups which I

occasionally monitor, but do not participate in. I have strong

feelings about biopsychiatry, as does Breeding. I am not saying you

should follow anyone's advice except your own. You can always reject

his advice, but it may be interesting to see what he might offer. He

would probably at least tell you who you could consult. Best of luck.

Tommy

March 22, 2001

> Hi,

>

> Thanks for the site. Having been a former mental health

> administrator, I found it enlightening. I agree with much of it's

> contents.

>

> I do wonder how or if this would be of help to me. I am not on any

> psytropic medications. I take herbal supplements for my OCD.

>

> Do you think this doctor would have an opinion regarding my

> prescription pain medication situation?

>

> CAG

CAG

I offered the links because I knew Breeding is readily available

through the yahoo group. It is one of numerous groups which I

occasionally monitor, but do not participate in. I have strong

feelings about biopsychiatry, as does Breeding. I am not saying you

should follow anyone's advice except your own. You can always reject

his advice, but it may be interesting to see what he might offer. He

would probably at least tell you who you could consult. Best of luck.

Tommy

March 22, 2001

> Hi,

>

> Thanks for the site. Having been a former mental health

> administrator, I found it enlightening. I agree with much of it's

> contents.

>

> I do wonder how or if this would be of help to me. I am not on any

> psytropic medications. I take herbal supplements for my OCD.

>

> Do you think this doctor would have an opinion regarding my

> prescription pain medication situation?

>

> CAG

CAG

I offered the links because I knew Breeding is readily available

through the yahoo group. It is one of numerous groups which I

occasionally monitor, but do not participate in. I have strong

feelings about biopsychiatry, as does Breeding. I am not saying you

should follow anyone's advice except your own. You can always reject

his advice, but it may be interesting to see what he might offer. He

would probably at least tell you who you could consult. Best of luck.

Tommy

March 22, 2001

At 11:00 PM 3/22/01 +0000, you wrote:

[snip]

>Anybody ever gone off long-term pain medicatioin without detox? I

>can't believe that I would have to subject myself and my family to

>that when I am not even a drug addict!

Perhaps they just meant the literal detoxing period? Perhaps they

were concerned that you might have physical withdrawal problems?

I don't know anything about the medication in question. But if you

might react physically to stopping it, then it might be wise to be

under medical supervision during the process. It doesn't

*necessarily* mean you're being regarded as an addict (although

it might mean that).

March 22, 2001

At 11:00 PM 3/22/01 +0000, you wrote:

[snip]

>Anybody ever gone off long-term pain medicatioin without detox? I

>can't believe that I would have to subject myself and my family to

>that when I am not even a drug addict!

Perhaps they just meant the literal detoxing period? Perhaps they

were concerned that you might have physical withdrawal problems?

I don't know anything about the medication in question. But if you

might react physically to stopping it, then it might be wise to be

under medical supervision during the process. It doesn't

*necessarily* mean you're being regarded as an addict (although

it might mean that).

March 23, 2001

In a message dated 3/22/01 5:35:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,

malgeo@... writes:

<< I don't know anything about the medication in question. But if you

might react physically to stopping it, then it might be wise to be

under medical supervision during the process. It doesn't

*necessarily* mean you're being regarded as an addict (although

it might mean that).

>>

~~

I think this is an essentil point. Many people, I believe, would stop taking

whatever substance they are on, if they knew of a safe method for doing so.

If under medical supervision, this usually means a detox in an AA-oriented

hospital program. Most doctors are unwilling to accept the responsibility

for a detox unless under the auspices of a " drug treatment program " , and we

all know what this means. If they prescibe the meds and you do your own

detox, they are medically liable if something happens to you. Enough law

suits have come down, evidently, so that they are completely unwilling to do

this. What choice does this leave people with?

Withdrawal from alcohol can indeed be life threatening. This is not the

case, I don't believe with other medications, but withdrawal from

benzodiazapenes can cause serious problems and some people have landed in

psychiatric wards if they have taken the benzos long enough at high enough

dosages.

In a search on the literature, I find lots of wonderful " empowering " messages

about not falling prey to learned helplessness etc., but very little about

how a person goes about a detox in an informed rational way by themselves

and/or with a friend..

I see this as critical, if we are going to talk about a 12-step free

philosophy that involves believing in oneself and doing a drug-free lifestyle.

Any comments welcome. Piper

March 23, 2001

In a message dated 3/23/01 12:52:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,

rita66@... writes:

<< hopefully you don't believe that having a 12-step-free philosophy,

believing in oneself, and not abusing substances necessitates " doing a

drug-free lifestyle " ? Maybe I'm misreading you.

~Rita >>

No, not at all Rita. My brain went on vacation. I think that is up

to the individual to judge. Thanks for reply. Piper

March 23, 2001

In a message dated 3/23/01 12:52:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,

rita66@... writes:

<< hopefully you don't believe that having a 12-step-free philosophy,

believing in oneself, and not abusing substances necessitates " doing a

drug-free lifestyle " ? Maybe I'm misreading you.

~Rita >>

No, not at all Rita. My brain went on vacation. I think that is up

to the individual to judge. Thanks for reply. Piper

March 23, 2001

In a message dated 3/23/01 12:52:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,

rita66@... writes:

<< hopefully you don't believe that having a 12-step-free philosophy,

believing in oneself, and not abusing substances necessitates " doing a

drug-free lifestyle " ? Maybe I'm misreading you.

~Rita >>

No, not at all Rita. My brain went on vacation. I think that is up

to the individual to judge. Thanks for reply. Piper

March 23, 2001

> I see this as critical, if we are going to talk about a 12-step free

> philosophy that involves believing in oneself and doing a drug-free lifestyle.

>

--------------

Piper -- I agree with most of what you wrote, and I have sympathy for the

person in question who wishes support for getting off Vicodin, although sorry I

can't offer any suggestions (other than to e-mail " radical " physicians and

others who might be able to give referrals or leads). But I'm curious about the

above clip -- hopefully you don't believe that having a 12-step-free philosophy,

believing in oneself, and not abusing substances necessitates " doing a drug-free

lifestyle " ? Maybe I'm misreading you.

~Rita

> In a message dated 3/22/01 5:35:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> malgeo@m... writes:

>

> << I don't know anything about the medication in question. But if you

> might react physically to stopping it, then it might be wise to be

> under medical supervision during the process. It doesn't

> *necessarily* mean you're being regarded as an addict (although

> it might mean that).

>

> >>

> ~~

>

> I think this is an essentil point. Many people, I believe, would stop taking

> whatever substance they are on, if they knew of a safe method for doing so.

> If under medical supervision, this usually means a detox in an AA-oriented

> hospital program. Most doctors are unwilling to accept the responsibility

> for a detox unless under the auspices of a " drug treatment program " , and we

> all know what this means. If they prescibe the meds and you do your own

> detox, they are medically liable if something happens to you. Enough law

> suits have come down, evidently, so that they are completely unwilling to do

> this. What choice does this leave people with?

>

> Withdrawal from alcohol can indeed be life threatening. This is not the

> case, I don't believe with other medications, but withdrawal from

> benzodiazapenes can cause serious problems and some people have landed in

> psychiatric wards if they have taken the benzos long enough at high enough

> dosages.

>

> In a search on the literature, I find lots of wonderful " empowering " messages

> about not falling prey to learned helplessness etc., but very little about

> how a person goes about a detox in an informed rational way by themselves

> and/or with a friend..

>

> I see this as critical, if we are going to talk about a 12-step free

> philosophy that involves believing in oneself and doing a drug-free lifestyle.

>

March 23, 2001