Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 H. , How much did your test cost? Tedd Hart wrote: > Hello Group, > > I have been following the group in the background, read Andy Cutler's > books on chelation and hair analysis, and finally gotten a DDI hair > test. I posted it below and would appreciate commentary. I wish I knew > how to send it as a link because it is easier to read in graph form. > > It does not meet counting rules. That may be because over the past 15 > years of being severely chemically sensitive, I've done most every > form of detoxification and supplementation, which has balanced out an > otherwise unbalanced system. My HG exposures are also long past, with > amalgams removed at 29 years old (I'm now 44). > > I'm suspicious of a lurking mercury problem, though, because of past > history (vaccinations, amalgams, playing with broken thermometer > mercury as a child, working in Biochemistry labs) and present health > status (MCS). My thought is to go ahead with chelation despite the > hair results. I've done a few rounds and always feel better ON round > than OFF. Is that an indication of metal toxicity? > > I put a few specific questions after the test results and would > appreciate if anyone has input on them. > > POTENTIALLY TOXIC ELEMENTS > element result ref range color > ============================================= > aluminum 16 < 7.0 yellow > antimony 0.039 < 0.050 green > arsenic 0.067 < 0.060 yellow > beryllium < 0.01 < 0.020 no-line > bismuth 0.019 < 0.10 green > cadmium 0.051 < 0.10 green > lead 1.0 < 1.0 green/yellow edge > mercury 0.10 < 1.1 green > platinum < 0.003 < 0.005 no-line > thallium < 0.001 < 0.010 no-line > thorium 0.001 < 0.005 green > uranium 0.002 < 0.060 green > nickel 0.07 < o.40 green > silver 0.11 < 0.15 green > tin 0.12 < 0.30 green > titanium 0.53 < 1.0 green > > ESSENTIAL AND OTHER ELEMENTS > element result ref range color under/over 50% > ============================================================ > Calcium 73 300 - 1200 red below > Magnesium 7 35 - 120 red below > Sodium 32 12 - 90 green below > Potassium 13 8 - 38 green below > Copper 21 12 - 35 green above > Zinc 130 140 - 220 yellow below > Manganese 0.35 0.15 - 0.65 green above > Chromium 0.65 0.20 - 0.40 yellow above > Vanadium 0.82 0.018 - 0.065 yellow above > Molybdenum 0.054 0.028 - 0.056 green above > Boron 0.55 0.30 - 2.0 green below > Iodine 0.48 0.25 - 1.3 green below > Lithium 0.008 0.007 - 0.023 green below > Phosphorus 163 160 - 250 green below > Selenium 1.1 0.95 - 1.7 green below > Strontium 0.21 0.50 - 7.6 yellow below > Sulfur 49100 44500 - 52000 green above > Barium 0.29 0.26 - 3.0 green below > Cobalt 0.007 0.013 - 0.050 red below > Iron 18 5.4 - 14 yellow above > Germanium 0.032 0.045 - 0.065 yellow below > Rubidium 0.027 0.007 - 0.096 white above > Zirconium 0.027 0.020 - 0.42 green below > > Aluminum being in the high yellow range is odd since I have not had > any known exposures for years. (no aluminum baking powder, canned > foods/drinks, deodorants, cooking or storing containers, etc.) Why > would my body levels stay elevated? > > The arsenic in the low yellow range is odd too. Pesticides are the > main source and I've been eating organic for a long time and never go > near buildings that have been exterminated because I get > neurologically impaired. Again, why would body levels stay elevated? > > The red zone low calcium and magnesium is striking. I take > supplementary calcium (1000 mg/day) and magnesium (500 mg/ day). I > rarely eat diary's. It seems like if it were an assimilation problem, > other minerals would be generally low. Any ideas what would cause low > CA/MG? I do exercise intensively (cycling 170 miles a week) and maybe > that has an effect on what is left to show up in the hair. > > Is it a good idea to supplement for elements that show up in the low > yellow or red zone (zinc, strontium, cobalt, germanium)? > > I have been following the group posts with interest and would > appreciate any input you might have on my particular case. > > Thanks > > H. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Hello Group, The hair test I recently posted in tabular form is now in graph form (thanks to Dean) at the following link under Hairtest 24: http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html A little about my health history. Starting around 12, I had chronic digestive problems (constipation/diarrhea). At 18, I collapsed with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and spent 6 months confined to bed before slowly gaining strength. At 29, I had a recurrence of the CFS but with the added benefit of multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS). Upon exposure my primary symptom is brain fog. That is a pressure in my head and lack of focus, which extends to a generalized neurological shakiness. A secondary symptom is lung irritation. I no longer have CFS. Exercise is my best moderator of brain fog, although I still crash in exhaustion afterwards I had all 12 dental fillings removed shortly after getting MCS. They were replaced with Conquest, a non-metal containing composite. A few years later I had two crowns with root canals placed by a non-toxic dentist using Biocalyx (sp?). (Yes, that could be a problem, but not for mercury.) Until three weeks before the hair test my supplementation consisted of regularly taking NOW pure powders of 1000mg/day calcium carbonate and 500 mg/day magnesium oxide. (I just ordered the citrate forms) Sporadically I would take a Thorne B complex, Unique E, and ARG Cassava (sp?) based Vit C. Three weeks before the hair test, I did a one week round of ALA 100 mg every 3 hours (Yes, I know that was stupid). After a week break, I did another week on 25 mg DMSA and 50 mg ALA every 3 hours (that was slightly smarter). The hair test was done midweek of that last round. I had also added a few random minerals (Chromium picolinate, molybdenum, Zinc citrate, Iodine, multi mineral w/o copper and iron) and regularized dosages of Vit E (800 IU/day), Vit C (4 g/day), and Vit B (2 caps/day). After the hair test I stuck with the cal/mag, vit E, vit C, and zinc, and stopped the chromium, molybdenum and multi mineral based on high hair levels. As far as chelating, I plan to go to lower doses for shorter rounds. My post round symptoms were pins and needles in my skin and heart pain. Both of those are common reactivity symptoms for me. So I hope the graph and the background info make it a little easier to analyze the results. Really, there isn't much abnormal that I can see in it. Inga, it sounds right to me that a few toxic elements would be high for everybody, just considering the world we live in. If anyone sees something noteworthy let me know and I'll keep you posted about my chelation progress. Thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Jackie, thanks so much for the running commentary and encouragement to give chelation a good try. I get a daily digest so didn't read your message till after sending the rewrite of my original one. I'll convert to individual emails in order to be more in sink with the thread. Ted, I had the test done at DDI through Direct Laboratory Services for $93. I was impressed with how often Andy Culter mentioned multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS) as one of the possible symptoms of mercury toxicity. He largely attributes it to slow liver phase II detoxification. I will go back and try to apply his supplementation ideas for my particular condition. Are there people in this group who have had significant reduction in MCS type symptoms? > > Hi and welcome! Some comments below.---------Jackie T. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Jackie, thanks so much for the running commentary and encouragement to give chelation a good try. I get a daily digest so didn't read your message till after sending the rewrite of my original one. I'll convert to individual emails in order to be more in sink with the thread. Ted, I had the test done at DDI through Direct Laboratory Services for $93. I was impressed with how often Andy Culter mentioned multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS) as one of the possible symptoms of mercury toxicity. He largely attributes it to slow liver phase II detoxification. I will go back and try to apply his supplementation ideas for my particular condition. Are there people in this group who have had significant reduction in MCS type symptoms? > > Hi and welcome! Some comments below.---------Jackie T. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Hi , Yes, your test counts normal, but does not look normal. I personally would worry a little about the lead. (See pg 12 HTI.) Andy makes an exception of lead being the one to worry about if in the yellow, which your almost is. He also says lead is likely to be higher in the body than in the hair, especially for long ago exposures. Lead poisoning can be confirmed by elevated uric lead, urinary lead and others see pg. 179 AI Fortunately DMSA chelates lead. Your hair mercury is quite low, so you may be retaining it and having problems excreting it. Otherwise your hair Calcium and magnesium is VERY low. You might want to check you sulfate levels as elevated sulfate causes and increased level of calcium excretion, otherwise I'm not to sure what to read into it. I have seen this is other people that have problem digesting food. You could almost say that you have a all-low presentation. Not classically all low, but that would account for lower toxic metals. Yes, your Ca/P ration is very low. That means a very fast metaboliser and you may do well to check your liver phases. All of your other ranges are good. Andy says this: 'Potassium and Sodium up, with Calcium and Magnesium down means the person's Adrenals are shot, making way to much adrenaline but not enough cortisol. This generally goes along with being thin, high strung, excitable but not very stress intolerant'. pg. 112 So even though you Potassium and Sodium aren't;t above the 50th percentile there is a chance your adrenals are under-performing. Perhaps your thyroid is normal to high moving your metabolism along and your adrenal can't keep up? Do you have problems with exhaust fumes? If so your glutathione pathway in your liver phase 2 may be slow. I personally don't as of yet believe there is a 'safe' root canal, so it may be your problem. Trial chelation seems to be advised for your and liver pathway assessment with possible adrenal support??? Did someone say that cortisol is sulfated in the liver? What would that means for someone who is high sulfate? That's the best I can do :-) Dean > > The hair test I recently posted in tabular form is now in graph form (thanks to Dean) at the following link under Hairtest 24: > > http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Hi , Yes, your test counts normal, but does not look normal. I personally would worry a little about the lead. (See pg 12 HTI.) Andy makes an exception of lead being the one to worry about if in the yellow, which your almost is. He also says lead is likely to be higher in the body than in the hair, especially for long ago exposures. Lead poisoning can be confirmed by elevated uric lead, urinary lead and others see pg. 179 AI Fortunately DMSA chelates lead. Your hair mercury is quite low, so you may be retaining it and having problems excreting it. Otherwise your hair Calcium and magnesium is VERY low. You might want to check you sulfate levels as elevated sulfate causes and increased level of calcium excretion, otherwise I'm not to sure what to read into it. I have seen this is other people that have problem digesting food. You could almost say that you have a all-low presentation. Not classically all low, but that would account for lower toxic metals. Yes, your Ca/P ration is very low. That means a very fast metaboliser and you may do well to check your liver phases. All of your other ranges are good. Andy says this: 'Potassium and Sodium up, with Calcium and Magnesium down means the person's Adrenals are shot, making way to much adrenaline but not enough cortisol. This generally goes along with being thin, high strung, excitable but not very stress intolerant'. pg. 112 So even though you Potassium and Sodium aren't;t above the 50th percentile there is a chance your adrenals are under-performing. Perhaps your thyroid is normal to high moving your metabolism along and your adrenal can't keep up? Do you have problems with exhaust fumes? If so your glutathione pathway in your liver phase 2 may be slow. I personally don't as of yet believe there is a 'safe' root canal, so it may be your problem. Trial chelation seems to be advised for your and liver pathway assessment with possible adrenal support??? Did someone say that cortisol is sulfated in the liver? What would that means for someone who is high sulfate? That's the best I can do :-) Dean > > The hair test I recently posted in tabular form is now in graph form (thanks to Dean) at the following link under Hairtest 24: > > http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 In frequent-dose-chelation , lhart12003 wrote: Jackie, thanks so much for the running commentary and encouragement to give chelation a good try. -------You're welcome. <snip> I I was impressed with how often Andy Culter mentioned multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS) as one of the possible symptoms of mercury toxicity. He largely attributes it to slow liver phase II detoxification. I will go back and try to apply his supplementation ideas for my particular condition. ------Good. Let us know if it helps.------jackie t Are there people in this group who have had significant reduction in MCS type symptoms? ----------I had become sensitive to chemical smells, perfumes, etc., but probably not a severe case. I seem to be less sensitive now, after having amalgams removed last year, doing some chelation, and taking supps. So I'm not sure exactly what has helped, or a combination of all of them. Somebody had recently asked me what my mercury symptoms are/were, and I totally forgot to mention MCS, because it isn't as much of a problem any more.-----Jackie T> _._,_.___ Messages in this topic (20) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Members Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity a.. 7New Members b.. 1New Links Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 In frequent-dose-chelation , lhart12003 wrote: Jackie, thanks so much for the running commentary and encouragement to give chelation a good try. -------You're welcome. <snip> I I was impressed with how often Andy Culter mentioned multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS) as one of the possible symptoms of mercury toxicity. He largely attributes it to slow liver phase II detoxification. I will go back and try to apply his supplementation ideas for my particular condition. ------Good. Let us know if it helps.------jackie t Are there people in this group who have had significant reduction in MCS type symptoms? ----------I had become sensitive to chemical smells, perfumes, etc., but probably not a severe case. I seem to be less sensitive now, after having amalgams removed last year, doing some chelation, and taking supps. So I'm not sure exactly what has helped, or a combination of all of them. Somebody had recently asked me what my mercury symptoms are/were, and I totally forgot to mention MCS, because it isn't as much of a problem any more.-----Jackie T> _._,_.___ Messages in this topic (20) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Members Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity a.. 7New Members b.. 1New Links Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 In frequent-dose-chelation , lhart12003 wrote: Jackie, thanks so much for the running commentary and encouragement to give chelation a good try. -------You're welcome. <snip> I I was impressed with how often Andy Culter mentioned multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS) as one of the possible symptoms of mercury toxicity. He largely attributes it to slow liver phase II detoxification. I will go back and try to apply his supplementation ideas for my particular condition. ------Good. Let us know if it helps.------jackie t Are there people in this group who have had significant reduction in MCS type symptoms? ----------I had become sensitive to chemical smells, perfumes, etc., but probably not a severe case. I seem to be less sensitive now, after having amalgams removed last year, doing some chelation, and taking supps. So I'm not sure exactly what has helped, or a combination of all of them. Somebody had recently asked me what my mercury symptoms are/were, and I totally forgot to mention MCS, because it isn't as much of a problem any more.-----Jackie T> _._,_.___ Messages in this topic (20) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Members Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity a.. 7New Members b.. 1New Links Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 > > > >Is the GSDL (now Genova Diagnostics) Comprehensive Detoxification > >Profile still the best one? > > > > It is the one that most people get. Plasma cysteine and plasma > sulfate are a part of the test, and those are the two tests that Andy > says are most informative. Actually they now only run SERUM cysteine and sulfate. As far as I know the SERUM tests are as good as the PLASMA ones, but I don't know for sure. > It is possible to get only those two tests > if you want. I forget the cost. It has to be ordered through a > health care professional, and they will tell you the costs. > > http://www.gdx.net/home/assessments/detox/appguide/ I ordered them through Direct Labs, www.directlabs.com. They have a doctor there who authorizes the test. It was $132 for both tests. W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 > > > >Is the GSDL (now Genova Diagnostics) Comprehensive Detoxification > >Profile still the best one? > > > > It is the one that most people get. Plasma cysteine and plasma > sulfate are a part of the test, and those are the two tests that Andy > says are most informative. Actually they now only run SERUM cysteine and sulfate. As far as I know the SERUM tests are as good as the PLASMA ones, but I don't know for sure. > It is possible to get only those two tests > if you want. I forget the cost. It has to be ordered through a > health care professional, and they will tell you the costs. > > http://www.gdx.net/home/assessments/detox/appguide/ I ordered them through Direct Labs, www.directlabs.com. They have a doctor there who authorizes the test. It was $132 for both tests. W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 > > > >Is the GSDL (now Genova Diagnostics) Comprehensive Detoxification > >Profile still the best one? > > > > It is the one that most people get. Plasma cysteine and plasma > sulfate are a part of the test, and those are the two tests that Andy > says are most informative. Actually they now only run SERUM cysteine and sulfate. As far as I know the SERUM tests are as good as the PLASMA ones, but I don't know for sure. > It is possible to get only those two tests > if you want. I forget the cost. It has to be ordered through a > health care professional, and they will tell you the costs. > > http://www.gdx.net/home/assessments/detox/appguide/ I ordered them through Direct Labs, www.directlabs.com. They have a doctor there who authorizes the test. It was $132 for both tests. W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 > > Thanks Jackie, Dean and for all the insights into my hair test results. I spent the morning going over Andy's boo\ks to look at relevant sections you referred to. > > Dean, thanks for clarifying that the low Ca/P ratio suggests a fast metabolizer. The HTI book seems to present conflict\ing information on page 112. One paragraph states that a 1 to 3 ratio is slightly fast and a 6 to 12 is slightly slow. T\he next paragraph implies that slow metabolizers have a Ca/P ratio below 1. I assume the later is a mistake. > > I'm not clear how being a fast metabolizer relates to liver phases. Is that explained somewhere? The Ca/P ratio is unrelated to liver phases. Ca/P seems to be a measurement of autonomic balance with a low ratio indicating a sympathetic state and a higher ratio indicating a parasympathetic state. This is a bit different from fast/slow oxidizer status, but Dr. Larry says sympathetic usually correlates to fast oxidizer and parasympathetic to slow oxidizer. > The Liver Path assessment would be pertinent in my case, especially in designing a supplement program. Is the GSDL (n\ow Genova Diagnostics) Comprehensive Detoxification Profile still the best one? Does anyone know the approximate cost? T\he biggest stumbling block for me is that I have a bad reaction to blood drawing and only have it done when the physical c\ost/benefit is worth it. Taking this test requires a single dose of 200 mg caffeine, as well as 2 regular aspirin and 2 regular tylenol. Maybe not a great idea if you are chemically sensitive. > Can one get a fairly accurate assessment of sulfur status by doing an elimination diet for a few weeks? Usually I find \elimination diets uninformative because there are so many other variables to factor in. This may be a blood test worth d\oing. I have cut down on sulfur foods (eggs, garlic, onions, brassicas, etc.) on the theory that it would be better no\t to be redistribute mercury during the chelation process with the weak bonds of single thiol groups. Andy suggests excluding sulfur for a week or two, then eat a lot of it for a day. If you feel better when you add it back (without crashing later) then you probably benefit from sulfur foods. If you feel worse, or feel initially better and then crash a few hours later, then sulfur foods are not a great idea. I think the biggest culprits are the dairy and eggs. Other sulfur foods are the broccoli/cauliflower/cruciferous stuff, garlic, onions, beans, coffee. > Yes I do react to exhaust fumes, so my glutathione phase II is probably deranged. The recommendation for that is NAC, w\hich is contraindicated if high in sulfur. Until I figure out sulfur levels I won't add it in. NAC gave me an upset stom\ach when I have taken it before. > > I plan to chelate (using DMSA) for six months and then see what the lead level is on a follow up hair test. If it doesn\'t change, then a urine test will be in order. One possible ongoing exposure to lead is in calcium carbonate powder. If \I'm prone to accumulate metals, even levels considered safe could add up. I don't think that's a reliable way to check for lead. Hair lead will not necessarily reflect what is coming out with chelation. (It might with normal mineral transport, but I don't think it's a sure bet.) Testing serum uric acid might be informative about lead vs mercury. See p. 100 of Hair Test Interpretation. > Are there particular adrenal supports that you are thinking of? Adrenal cortex extract? Worth a try. Make sure it is cortex only (not whole adrenal). You can also consider various herbs such as ginseng and ashwagandha. Seriphos (phosphatidyl serine) is good for high cortisol levels. Is licorice root very effective? It can be. Not a great idea with chemical sensitivity, though. It speeds up liver phase 1 and can induce some unpleasant reactions. Treating adrenal fatigue is unfamiliar territory for me and I've followed the cortef discussions with little comprehens\ion. Perhaps reading the book others refer to is a good idea. The Safe Uses of Cortisol by Jefferies is specifically about the use of cortisol. Adrenal Fatigue by would cover use of herbs, vits, minerals, diet, lifestyle. There is much information available through online search as well. My case is borderline. On pg 91 of HTI he says the ends\ of the Ca/Mg and the Na/k need to be 2 " apart. Mine are about 1 1/2. Other signs also point to it, though. I think the hair test adrenal sign (even at 1.5 inch apart) is some indication, but a saliva test is still useful to tell you the stage of adrenal fatigue. > jay, I do take Carlson's lemon flavored cod liver oil (3 T/day) and had forgot to mention it. Flax oil doesn't see\m to metabolize well for me. Milk thistle is a good idea and I just got some pure powder through Beyond-a-Century. I'm \also slowly adding in some heart supports (CoQ10, l-carnitine, arginine) and a few others for the methylation pathway (TM\G, lecithin). After what you said about high mineral levels not being too significant, I will add back in the multi-miner\al (w/o copper and iron) > I had a blood test done 2 years back for gluten intolerance and it came out normal. I eat spelt in place of wheat. Pro\bably less gluten is a good idea, though, because I may be borderline intolerant, judging by chronic bowel problems. What blood test did you have? If you are talking about tests for celiac disease, blood testing is not completely reliable, and small intestine biopsy is best. How much gluten were you eating at the time of the test? Experts say you need to eat the equivalent of 1-2 slices wheat bread per day for about a month before testing to have a valid result. -- > Jackie, it is very encouraging to hear that your MCS symptoms have resolved!! I checked through the HTI book about low \hair test minerals and you are right that mostly the ones I am dealing with are not supplemented.(with the exception of zi\nc). I just got some Magnesium Orotate, having heard that it is particularly metabolizable. I've converted to the citrat\e forms for both Ca and Mg. > > Thanks again, all, for the great input. I've got lots to think about and experiment with now. > > H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 > > Thanks Jackie, Dean and for all the insights into my hair test results. I spent the morning going over Andy's boo\ks to look at relevant sections you referred to. > > Dean, thanks for clarifying that the low Ca/P ratio suggests a fast metabolizer. The HTI book seems to present conflict\ing information on page 112. One paragraph states that a 1 to 3 ratio is slightly fast and a 6 to 12 is slightly slow. T\he next paragraph implies that slow metabolizers have a Ca/P ratio below 1. I assume the later is a mistake. > > I'm not clear how being a fast metabolizer relates to liver phases. Is that explained somewhere? The Ca/P ratio is unrelated to liver phases. Ca/P seems to be a measurement of autonomic balance with a low ratio indicating a sympathetic state and a higher ratio indicating a parasympathetic state. This is a bit different from fast/slow oxidizer status, but Dr. Larry says sympathetic usually correlates to fast oxidizer and parasympathetic to slow oxidizer. > The Liver Path assessment would be pertinent in my case, especially in designing a supplement program. Is the GSDL (n\ow Genova Diagnostics) Comprehensive Detoxification Profile still the best one? Does anyone know the approximate cost? T\he biggest stumbling block for me is that I have a bad reaction to blood drawing and only have it done when the physical c\ost/benefit is worth it. Taking this test requires a single dose of 200 mg caffeine, as well as 2 regular aspirin and 2 regular tylenol. Maybe not a great idea if you are chemically sensitive. > Can one get a fairly accurate assessment of sulfur status by doing an elimination diet for a few weeks? Usually I find \elimination diets uninformative because there are so many other variables to factor in. This may be a blood test worth d\oing. I have cut down on sulfur foods (eggs, garlic, onions, brassicas, etc.) on the theory that it would be better no\t to be redistribute mercury during the chelation process with the weak bonds of single thiol groups. Andy suggests excluding sulfur for a week or two, then eat a lot of it for a day. If you feel better when you add it back (without crashing later) then you probably benefit from sulfur foods. If you feel worse, or feel initially better and then crash a few hours later, then sulfur foods are not a great idea. I think the biggest culprits are the dairy and eggs. Other sulfur foods are the broccoli/cauliflower/cruciferous stuff, garlic, onions, beans, coffee. > Yes I do react to exhaust fumes, so my glutathione phase II is probably deranged. The recommendation for that is NAC, w\hich is contraindicated if high in sulfur. Until I figure out sulfur levels I won't add it in. NAC gave me an upset stom\ach when I have taken it before. > > I plan to chelate (using DMSA) for six months and then see what the lead level is on a follow up hair test. If it doesn\'t change, then a urine test will be in order. One possible ongoing exposure to lead is in calcium carbonate powder. If \I'm prone to accumulate metals, even levels considered safe could add up. I don't think that's a reliable way to check for lead. Hair lead will not necessarily reflect what is coming out with chelation. (It might with normal mineral transport, but I don't think it's a sure bet.) Testing serum uric acid might be informative about lead vs mercury. See p. 100 of Hair Test Interpretation. > Are there particular adrenal supports that you are thinking of? Adrenal cortex extract? Worth a try. Make sure it is cortex only (not whole adrenal). You can also consider various herbs such as ginseng and ashwagandha. Seriphos (phosphatidyl serine) is good for high cortisol levels. Is licorice root very effective? It can be. Not a great idea with chemical sensitivity, though. It speeds up liver phase 1 and can induce some unpleasant reactions. Treating adrenal fatigue is unfamiliar territory for me and I've followed the cortef discussions with little comprehens\ion. Perhaps reading the book others refer to is a good idea. The Safe Uses of Cortisol by Jefferies is specifically about the use of cortisol. Adrenal Fatigue by would cover use of herbs, vits, minerals, diet, lifestyle. There is much information available through online search as well. My case is borderline. On pg 91 of HTI he says the ends\ of the Ca/Mg and the Na/k need to be 2 " apart. Mine are about 1 1/2. Other signs also point to it, though. I think the hair test adrenal sign (even at 1.5 inch apart) is some indication, but a saliva test is still useful to tell you the stage of adrenal fatigue. > jay, I do take Carlson's lemon flavored cod liver oil (3 T/day) and had forgot to mention it. Flax oil doesn't see\m to metabolize well for me. Milk thistle is a good idea and I just got some pure powder through Beyond-a-Century. I'm \also slowly adding in some heart supports (CoQ10, l-carnitine, arginine) and a few others for the methylation pathway (TM\G, lecithin). After what you said about high mineral levels not being too significant, I will add back in the multi-miner\al (w/o copper and iron) > I had a blood test done 2 years back for gluten intolerance and it came out normal. I eat spelt in place of wheat. Pro\bably less gluten is a good idea, though, because I may be borderline intolerant, judging by chronic bowel problems. What blood test did you have? If you are talking about tests for celiac disease, blood testing is not completely reliable, and small intestine biopsy is best. How much gluten were you eating at the time of the test? Experts say you need to eat the equivalent of 1-2 slices wheat bread per day for about a month before testing to have a valid result. -- > Jackie, it is very encouraging to hear that your MCS symptoms have resolved!! I checked through the HTI book about low \hair test minerals and you are right that mostly the ones I am dealing with are not supplemented.(with the exception of zi\nc). I just got some Magnesium Orotate, having heard that it is particularly metabolizable. I've converted to the citrat\e forms for both Ca and Mg. > > Thanks again, all, for the great input. I've got lots to think about and experiment with now. > > H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 > > Thanks Jackie, Dean and for all the insights into my hair test results. I spent the morning going over Andy's boo\ks to look at relevant sections you referred to. > > Dean, thanks for clarifying that the low Ca/P ratio suggests a fast metabolizer. The HTI book seems to present conflict\ing information on page 112. One paragraph states that a 1 to 3 ratio is slightly fast and a 6 to 12 is slightly slow. T\he next paragraph implies that slow metabolizers have a Ca/P ratio below 1. I assume the later is a mistake. > > I'm not clear how being a fast metabolizer relates to liver phases. Is that explained somewhere? The Ca/P ratio is unrelated to liver phases. Ca/P seems to be a measurement of autonomic balance with a low ratio indicating a sympathetic state and a higher ratio indicating a parasympathetic state. This is a bit different from fast/slow oxidizer status, but Dr. Larry says sympathetic usually correlates to fast oxidizer and parasympathetic to slow oxidizer. > The Liver Path assessment would be pertinent in my case, especially in designing a supplement program. Is the GSDL (n\ow Genova Diagnostics) Comprehensive Detoxification Profile still the best one? Does anyone know the approximate cost? T\he biggest stumbling block for me is that I have a bad reaction to blood drawing and only have it done when the physical c\ost/benefit is worth it. Taking this test requires a single dose of 200 mg caffeine, as well as 2 regular aspirin and 2 regular tylenol. Maybe not a great idea if you are chemically sensitive. > Can one get a fairly accurate assessment of sulfur status by doing an elimination diet for a few weeks? Usually I find \elimination diets uninformative because there are so many other variables to factor in. This may be a blood test worth d\oing. I have cut down on sulfur foods (eggs, garlic, onions, brassicas, etc.) on the theory that it would be better no\t to be redistribute mercury during the chelation process with the weak bonds of single thiol groups. Andy suggests excluding sulfur for a week or two, then eat a lot of it for a day. If you feel better when you add it back (without crashing later) then you probably benefit from sulfur foods. If you feel worse, or feel initially better and then crash a few hours later, then sulfur foods are not a great idea. I think the biggest culprits are the dairy and eggs. Other sulfur foods are the broccoli/cauliflower/cruciferous stuff, garlic, onions, beans, coffee. > Yes I do react to exhaust fumes, so my glutathione phase II is probably deranged. The recommendation for that is NAC, w\hich is contraindicated if high in sulfur. Until I figure out sulfur levels I won't add it in. NAC gave me an upset stom\ach when I have taken it before. > > I plan to chelate (using DMSA) for six months and then see what the lead level is on a follow up hair test. If it doesn\'t change, then a urine test will be in order. One possible ongoing exposure to lead is in calcium carbonate powder. If \I'm prone to accumulate metals, even levels considered safe could add up. I don't think that's a reliable way to check for lead. Hair lead will not necessarily reflect what is coming out with chelation. (It might with normal mineral transport, but I don't think it's a sure bet.) Testing serum uric acid might be informative about lead vs mercury. See p. 100 of Hair Test Interpretation. > Are there particular adrenal supports that you are thinking of? Adrenal cortex extract? Worth a try. Make sure it is cortex only (not whole adrenal). You can also consider various herbs such as ginseng and ashwagandha. Seriphos (phosphatidyl serine) is good for high cortisol levels. Is licorice root very effective? It can be. Not a great idea with chemical sensitivity, though. It speeds up liver phase 1 and can induce some unpleasant reactions. Treating adrenal fatigue is unfamiliar territory for me and I've followed the cortef discussions with little comprehens\ion. Perhaps reading the book others refer to is a good idea. The Safe Uses of Cortisol by Jefferies is specifically about the use of cortisol. Adrenal Fatigue by would cover use of herbs, vits, minerals, diet, lifestyle. There is much information available through online search as well. My case is borderline. On pg 91 of HTI he says the ends\ of the Ca/Mg and the Na/k need to be 2 " apart. Mine are about 1 1/2. Other signs also point to it, though. I think the hair test adrenal sign (even at 1.5 inch apart) is some indication, but a saliva test is still useful to tell you the stage of adrenal fatigue. > jay, I do take Carlson's lemon flavored cod liver oil (3 T/day) and had forgot to mention it. Flax oil doesn't see\m to metabolize well for me. Milk thistle is a good idea and I just got some pure powder through Beyond-a-Century. I'm \also slowly adding in some heart supports (CoQ10, l-carnitine, arginine) and a few others for the methylation pathway (TM\G, lecithin). After what you said about high mineral levels not being too significant, I will add back in the multi-miner\al (w/o copper and iron) > I had a blood test done 2 years back for gluten intolerance and it came out normal. I eat spelt in place of wheat. Pro\bably less gluten is a good idea, though, because I may be borderline intolerant, judging by chronic bowel problems. What blood test did you have? If you are talking about tests for celiac disease, blood testing is not completely reliable, and small intestine biopsy is best. How much gluten were you eating at the time of the test? Experts say you need to eat the equivalent of 1-2 slices wheat bread per day for about a month before testing to have a valid result. -- > Jackie, it is very encouraging to hear that your MCS symptoms have resolved!! I checked through the HTI book about low \hair test minerals and you are right that mostly the ones I am dealing with are not supplemented.(with the exception of zi\nc). I just got some Magnesium Orotate, having heard that it is particularly metabolizable. I've converted to the citrat\e forms for both Ca and Mg. > > Thanks again, all, for the great input. I've got lots to think about and experiment with now. > > H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 > Andy suggests excluding sulfur for a week or two, then eat a lot > of it for a day. ------I am going to try this dietary appoach as a first diagnostic step. Is it important to exclude much meat in the trial week, or is that relatively low in sulphur compared to eggs and dairies? If the results of and elimination/challenge are inconclusive then I'll resort to the blood test for cystein/sulphur ratios. I'm glad to have all the information about how to order it from Genova through DLS if it ocmes to that. The GDX web site posted was very informative about the various aspects ot the Comprehensive Detoxification profile. > I don't think that's a reliable way to check for lead. Hair lead > will not necessarily reflect what is coming out with chelation. -------Sounds like a Urinary lead test is a wise idea. I'll add that into the list of tests to ask the doctor for on the next visit. > Is licorice root very effective? > It can be. Not a great idea with chemical sensitivity, though. > It speeds up liver phase 1 and can induce some unpleasant reactions. > --------That is good to know!! > Adrenal Fatigue by would > cover use of herbs, vits, minerals, diet, lifestyle. -------I'll get a copy of this and start experimenting with his advice as a first step, knowing the cortisol option is there if I need it. > > I think the hair test adrenal sign (even at 1.5 inch apart) is some > indication, but a saliva test is still useful to tell you the > stage of adrenal fatigue. > > -------- Is the saliva test from Genova labs and can it be ordered through DLS? > > What blood test did you have? If you are talking about tests > for celiac disease, blood testing is not completely reliable, > and small intestine biopsy is best. How much gluten were you > eating at the time of the test? Experts say you need to eat > the equivalent of 1-2 slices wheat bread per day for about a > month before testing to have a valid result. > -------I had a " Celiac Diseas AB Profile " which tested for Antigliadin ABS, IgA and Antifliadin Abs, IgG and t- Transglutaminase, IgA. I ate gluten two days prior to the test in order to activate the antibodies. I hadn't eaten very little for months before. That wasn't particularly reliable based on what you said. I have an instinctive sense that gluten is a problem and will go back to a gluten free diet as a precautionary measure. This could be part of the explanation for poor absorption of cal/mag. Thanks for the clear explanation of the significance of the Ca/P ratio. I'm holding the Comprehensive Liver Detox profile as an option, but am also leary of the challenge tests. I'm glad to know the specifics. > H> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 > > > > Andy suggests excluding sulfur for a week or two, then eat a lot > > of it for a day. > > ------I am going to try this dietary appoach as a first diagnostic > step. Is it important to exclude much meat in the trial week, or is > that relatively low in sulphur compared to eggs and dairies? Meat is not a problem - I've forgotten why - I think the sulfur it contains is not in the form of thiols. Hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong. > If the results of and elimination/challenge are inconclusive then > I'll resort to the blood test for cystein/sulphur ratios. I'm glad > to have all the information about how to order it from Genova > through DLS if it ocmes to that. The GDX web site posted was very > informative about the various aspects ot the Comprehensive > Detoxification profile. > > > > I don't think that's a reliable way to check for lead. Hair lead > > will not necessarily reflect what is coming out with chelation. > > -------Sounds like a Urinary lead test is a wise idea. I'll add > that into the list of tests to ask the doctor for on the next > visit. The problem with urine tests for metals is that excretion is so variable. I'm not sure how useful this is. If any lead showed up, that would indicate you had some of it in you, but if no lead showed up, that doesn't mean you don't have it. > > Is licorice root very effective? > > > It can be. Not a great idea with chemical sensitivity, though. > > It speeds up liver phase 1 and can induce some unpleasant > reactions. > > > --------That is good to know!! > > > > Adrenal Fatigue by would > > cover use of herbs, vits, minerals, diet, lifestyle. > > -------I'll get a copy of this and start experimenting with his > advice as a first step, knowing the cortisol option is there if I > need it. > > > > > I think the hair test adrenal sign (even at 1.5 inch apart) is > some > > indication, but a saliva test is still useful to tell you the > > stage of adrenal fatigue. > > > > -------- Is the saliva test from Genova labs and can it be ordered > through DLS? The cheapeast and easiest way to get a saliva test that I know of is through www.canaryclub.org. You don't need a doctor to get it and it tests other hormones as well. > > What blood test did you have? If you are talking about tests > > for celiac disease, blood testing is not completely reliable, > > and small intestine biopsy is best. How much gluten were you > > eating at the time of the test? Experts say you need to eat > > the equivalent of 1-2 slices wheat bread per day for about a > > month before testing to have a valid result. > > > -------I had a " Celiac Diseas AB Profile " which tested for > Antigliadin ABS, IgA and Antifliadin Abs, IgG and t- > Transglutaminase, IgA. I ate gluten two days prior to the test in > order to activate the antibodies. I hadn't eaten very little for > months before. That wasn't particularly reliable based on what you > said. I have an instinctive sense that gluten is a problem and will > go back to a gluten free diet as a precautionary measure. This > could be part of the explanation for poor absorption of cal/mag. Are you familiar with www.celiac.com? This is an excellent source of information. Most GI docs will not not think celiac is very likely and will not know of the need to eat gluten for awhile before testing. My information about the recommendation to eat gluten for a month is several years old - the information below is probably more current, and is more detailed: http://www.celiac.com/st_prod.html?p_prodid=12 & p_catid=2 & sid=91hH9H1VMJ@i28q-141\ 06449666.0a -- > Thanks for the clear explanation of the significance of the Ca/P > ratio. I'm holding the Comprehensive Liver Detox profile as an > option, but am also leary of the challenge tests. I'm glad to know > the specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 > > > > Andy suggests excluding sulfur for a week or two, then eat a lot > > of it for a day. > > ------I am going to try this dietary appoach as a first diagnostic > step. Is it important to exclude much meat in the trial week, or is > that relatively low in sulphur compared to eggs and dairies? Meat is not a problem - I've forgotten why - I think the sulfur it contains is not in the form of thiols. Hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong. > If the results of and elimination/challenge are inconclusive then > I'll resort to the blood test for cystein/sulphur ratios. I'm glad > to have all the information about how to order it from Genova > through DLS if it ocmes to that. The GDX web site posted was very > informative about the various aspects ot the Comprehensive > Detoxification profile. > > > > I don't think that's a reliable way to check for lead. Hair lead > > will not necessarily reflect what is coming out with chelation. > > -------Sounds like a Urinary lead test is a wise idea. I'll add > that into the list of tests to ask the doctor for on the next > visit. The problem with urine tests for metals is that excretion is so variable. I'm not sure how useful this is. If any lead showed up, that would indicate you had some of it in you, but if no lead showed up, that doesn't mean you don't have it. > > Is licorice root very effective? > > > It can be. Not a great idea with chemical sensitivity, though. > > It speeds up liver phase 1 and can induce some unpleasant > reactions. > > > --------That is good to know!! > > > > Adrenal Fatigue by would > > cover use of herbs, vits, minerals, diet, lifestyle. > > -------I'll get a copy of this and start experimenting with his > advice as a first step, knowing the cortisol option is there if I > need it. > > > > > I think the hair test adrenal sign (even at 1.5 inch apart) is > some > > indication, but a saliva test is still useful to tell you the > > stage of adrenal fatigue. > > > > -------- Is the saliva test from Genova labs and can it be ordered > through DLS? The cheapeast and easiest way to get a saliva test that I know of is through www.canaryclub.org. You don't need a doctor to get it and it tests other hormones as well. > > What blood test did you have? If you are talking about tests > > for celiac disease, blood testing is not completely reliable, > > and small intestine biopsy is best. How much gluten were you > > eating at the time of the test? Experts say you need to eat > > the equivalent of 1-2 slices wheat bread per day for about a > > month before testing to have a valid result. > > > -------I had a " Celiac Diseas AB Profile " which tested for > Antigliadin ABS, IgA and Antifliadin Abs, IgG and t- > Transglutaminase, IgA. I ate gluten two days prior to the test in > order to activate the antibodies. I hadn't eaten very little for > months before. That wasn't particularly reliable based on what you > said. I have an instinctive sense that gluten is a problem and will > go back to a gluten free diet as a precautionary measure. This > could be part of the explanation for poor absorption of cal/mag. Are you familiar with www.celiac.com? This is an excellent source of information. Most GI docs will not not think celiac is very likely and will not know of the need to eat gluten for awhile before testing. My information about the recommendation to eat gluten for a month is several years old - the information below is probably more current, and is more detailed: http://www.celiac.com/st_prod.html?p_prodid=12 & p_catid=2 & sid=91hH9H1VMJ@i28q-141\ 06449666.0a -- > Thanks for the clear explanation of the significance of the Ca/P > ratio. I'm holding the Comprehensive Liver Detox profile as an > option, but am also leary of the challenge tests. I'm glad to know > the specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 > > > > > > Meat is not a problem - I've forgotten why - I think the sulfur > it contains is not in the form of thiols. Hopefully someone will > correct me if I am wrong. > ------- Is there a listing of sulfur foods that is more complete than the list in the AI book? How about seeds (sesame, sunflower)? Are they high sulfur like nuts are? Sorry if this is a question a little research could find the answer to. > > The problem with urine tests for metals is that excretion is > so variable. I'm not sure how useful this is. If any lead > showed up, that would indicate you had some of it in you, but > if no lead showed up, that doesn't mean you don't have it. ----------- One precautionary measure I am takeing for the medium-high lead reading is to cut down on Cod Liver Oil from 3 Tablespoons a day to 1 teaspoon. Somewhere the AI book says that Vit D makes lead more absorbable. > > The cheapeast and easiest way to get a saliva test that I know of > is through www.canaryclub.org. You don't need a doctor to get it > and it tests other hormones as well. ------------------ I just checked out the www.canaryclub.org site. They have hormone profile tests I,II, & III from ZRT lab, which deal with adrenal function. Is the hormone profile III the best one to get for adrenals? There was also Daignos-Tech. Inc. lab. Is either the ZRT lab or Diagnos-Tech Inc. preferable? Thanks H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 > > > > > > Meat is not a problem - I've forgotten why - I think the sulfur > it contains is not in the form of thiols. Hopefully someone will > correct me if I am wrong. > ------- Is there a listing of sulfur foods that is more complete than the list in the AI book? How about seeds (sesame, sunflower)? Are they high sulfur like nuts are? Sorry if this is a question a little research could find the answer to. > > The problem with urine tests for metals is that excretion is > so variable. I'm not sure how useful this is. If any lead > showed up, that would indicate you had some of it in you, but > if no lead showed up, that doesn't mean you don't have it. ----------- One precautionary measure I am takeing for the medium-high lead reading is to cut down on Cod Liver Oil from 3 Tablespoons a day to 1 teaspoon. Somewhere the AI book says that Vit D makes lead more absorbable. > > The cheapeast and easiest way to get a saliva test that I know of > is through www.canaryclub.org. You don't need a doctor to get it > and it tests other hormones as well. ------------------ I just checked out the www.canaryclub.org site. They have hormone profile tests I,II, & III from ZRT lab, which deal with adrenal function. Is the hormone profile III the best one to get for adrenals? There was also Daignos-Tech. Inc. lab. Is either the ZRT lab or Diagnos-Tech Inc. preferable? Thanks H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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