Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Hi my name is and my 6mo Olivia is awaiting authorization to get a doc band. She has brachycephaly but thankfully doesn't have significant assymetries yet. My 3yo never had the opportunity to correct his plagio since my ped at the time didn't advocate banding and I didn't know enough to pursue it. My question for all of you out there is could someone point me to some information on the functional complications of plagio/brachy? I am now getting a lot of questions from friends and family about why I want to put my dear, sweet little girl through the banding process. I know there is more to it than just cosmetic, it makes sense to me that if one bone is out of line, there can be problems down the whole chain. I know I am doing what is best for my child and it doesn't matter what others think but I would like some back up to maybe educate others. Even if you don't have anything formal I would love to hear what you all have been taught regarding this matter. Thanks so much and I am so glad there are boards like this where we can go through these things together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Hi my name is and my 6mo Olivia is awaiting authorization to get a doc band. She has brachycephaly but thankfully doesn't have significant assymetries yet. My 3yo never had the opportunity to correct his plagio since my ped at the time didn't advocate banding and I didn't know enough to pursue it. My question for all of you out there is could someone point me to some information on the functional complications of plagio/brachy? I am now getting a lot of questions from friends and family about why I want to put my dear, sweet little girl through the banding process. I know there is more to it than just cosmetic, it makes sense to me that if one bone is out of line, there can be problems down the whole chain. I know I am doing what is best for my child and it doesn't matter what others think but I would like some back up to maybe educate others. Even if you don't have anything formal I would love to hear what you all have been taught regarding this matter. Thanks so much and I am so glad there are boards like this where we can go through these things together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 I found that the people on the older plagio board had alot of info regarding the issues that they are now facing with their older plagio children. Haylee > > Hi my name is and my 6mo Olivia is awaiting authorization to get > a doc band. She has brachycephaly but thankfully doesn't have > significant assymetries yet. My 3yo never had the opportunity to > correct his plagio since my ped at the time didn't advocate banding and > I didn't know enough to pursue it. > > My question for all of you out there is could someone point me to some > information on the functional complications of plagio/brachy? I am now > getting a lot of questions from friends and family about why I want to > put my dear, sweet little girl through the banding process. I know > there is more to it than just cosmetic, it makes sense to me that if > one bone is out of line, there can be problems down the whole chain. > > I know I am doing what is best for my child and it doesn't matter what > others think but I would like some back up to maybe educate others. > Even if you don't have anything formal I would love to hear what you > all have been taught regarding this matter. Thanks so much and I am so > glad there are boards like this where we can go through these things > together. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 I found that the people on the older plagio board had alot of info regarding the issues that they are now facing with their older plagio children. Haylee > > Hi my name is and my 6mo Olivia is awaiting authorization to get > a doc band. She has brachycephaly but thankfully doesn't have > significant assymetries yet. My 3yo never had the opportunity to > correct his plagio since my ped at the time didn't advocate banding and > I didn't know enough to pursue it. > > My question for all of you out there is could someone point me to some > information on the functional complications of plagio/brachy? I am now > getting a lot of questions from friends and family about why I want to > put my dear, sweet little girl through the banding process. I know > there is more to it than just cosmetic, it makes sense to me that if > one bone is out of line, there can be problems down the whole chain. > > I know I am doing what is best for my child and it doesn't matter what > others think but I would like some back up to maybe educate others. > Even if you don't have anything formal I would love to hear what you > all have been taught regarding this matter. Thanks so much and I am so > glad there are boards like this where we can go through these things > together. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Hi , One of our moderators is a big researcher and she is very good about adding things to our links and files sections, so that is a great place to start. I also made a handout for my daughter that I used to give people who asked that has an overview on plagio, including risks of untreated plagio. You can see that on her website linked below if you want. , mom to Hannah, DOCgrad Cape Cod, Ma http://hannahsnoggin.typepad.com > > Hi my name is and my 6mo Olivia is awaiting authorization to get > a doc band. She has brachycephaly but thankfully doesn't have > significant assymetries yet. My 3yo never had the opportunity to > correct his plagio since my ped at the time didn't advocate banding and > I didn't know enough to pursue it. > > My question for all of you out there is could someone point me to some > information on the functional complications of plagio/brachy? I am now > getting a lot of questions from friends and family about why I want to > put my dear, sweet little girl through the banding process. I know > there is more to it than just cosmetic, it makes sense to me that if > one bone is out of line, there can be problems down the whole chain. > > I know I am doing what is best for my child and it doesn't matter what > others think but I would like some back up to maybe educate others. > Even if you don't have anything formal I would love to hear what you > all have been taught regarding this matter. Thanks so much and I am so > glad there are boards like this where we can go through these things > together. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Hi , One of our moderators is a big researcher and she is very good about adding things to our links and files sections, so that is a great place to start. I also made a handout for my daughter that I used to give people who asked that has an overview on plagio, including risks of untreated plagio. You can see that on her website linked below if you want. , mom to Hannah, DOCgrad Cape Cod, Ma http://hannahsnoggin.typepad.com > > Hi my name is and my 6mo Olivia is awaiting authorization to get > a doc band. She has brachycephaly but thankfully doesn't have > significant assymetries yet. My 3yo never had the opportunity to > correct his plagio since my ped at the time didn't advocate banding and > I didn't know enough to pursue it. > > My question for all of you out there is could someone point me to some > information on the functional complications of plagio/brachy? I am now > getting a lot of questions from friends and family about why I want to > put my dear, sweet little girl through the banding process. I know > there is more to it than just cosmetic, it makes sense to me that if > one bone is out of line, there can be problems down the whole chain. > > I know I am doing what is best for my child and it doesn't matter what > others think but I would like some back up to maybe educate others. > Even if you don't have anything formal I would love to hear what you > all have been taught regarding this matter. Thanks so much and I am so > glad there are boards like this where we can go through these things > together. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Hi ,Welcome to the group! I hope you hear back about band authorization soon. Let us know when you do.Brachycephaly is actually plagiocephaly on both sides of the head. Asymmetries are not noted, because the deformation is occurring on both sides of the head. Ears, forehead, cheek, eyes, etc. are all being pushed forward and outward as with plagio. My daughter was mostly brachy, too, with a little plagio thrown in. She didn't have any noticeable asymmetries either, and I think that contributed to allowing myself to be placated by her pediatrician for months. I read often in other posts about family members or friends being unsupportive of choosing the banding option and "putting the baby through that." It can be helpful to tell them that in addition to the usual cosmetic reasons (abnormal skull shape, but can be corrected,) the AAP itself recognizes banding and helmeting as a plagio treatment, and does recommend a baby be referred for evaluation of the helmet/band option at some point. You can see that the AAP certainly doesn't consider banding "putting the baby through that," and, in fact, gives helpful information on best banding age, etc.:AAP Release July 2003 Prevention & Management of Positional Skull Deformities in Infants - AAP finally acknowledges relationship of "back to sleep" in increase in plagio! http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;112/1/199?fulltext=plagiocephaly & searchid=QID_NOT_SET Only in the last few years have scientific studies shown that plagio carries with it a higher risk of certain health issues. None of these conclusions were addressed in the AAP's release (above,) because that only covered plagio data up until 2000, which is the year the first of these health risk studies was published. Hopefully as the data on plagio grows, they will choose to update their recommendations, strengthen their preventive plagio campaign, and provide more detailed repositioning info. Here are the studies that I know about linking plagio with functional health risks:Anthropometric Analysis of Mandibular Asymmetry in Infants with Deformational Posterior Plagiocephaly (pub. Aug. 2002) This study supports the clinical observation that the mandibular asymmetry in deformational posterior plagiocephaly is secondary to rotation of the cranial base and anterior displacement of the temporomandibular joint (quantified by anterior auricular position) and not the result of primary mandibular deformity. Also this study showed that improvement in cranial asymmetry occurred with helmet therapy, but there was no correction of auricular and temporomandibular joint position. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12149730 & dopt=Abstract Auditory ERPs Reveal Brain Dysfunction in Infants with Plagiocephaly (pub. Jul. 2002) In the current study we demonstrated, for the first time, that the central sound processing, as reflected by ERPs, is affected in children with plagiocephaly. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12140415 & dopt=AbstractLong-Term Developmental Outcomes in Patients With Deformational Plagiocephaly (Feb. 2000) Infants with deformational plagiocephaly comprise a high-risk group for developmental difficulties presenting as subtle problems of cerebral dysfunction during the school-age years. There is a need for additional research on the long-term developmental problems in infants with deformational plagiocephaly. plagiocephaly, facial asymmetry, torticollis, developmental delay. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/105/2/e26 Neurodevelopment in Children with Single-Suture Craniosynostosis and Plagiocephaly without Synostosis (pub. Nov. 2001) The objective of this study was to determine whether children with nonsyndromic craniosynostosis and plagiocephaly without synostosis demonstrated cognitive and psychomotor delays when compared with a standardized population sample. 0 percent of the subjects in the group with plagiocephaly without synostosis were accelerated, 67 percent were normal, 20 percent had mild delay, and 13 percent had significant delay. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=11711916 & dopt=AbstractOphthalmologic Findings in Patients with Nonsyndromic Plagiocephaly (pub. July 2003) The purpose of this article was to study the prevalence of strabismus and astigmatism in children with nonsyndromic plagiocephaly. Children with deformational plagiocephaly do have an increased prevalence of astigmatism. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12867869 & dopt=AbstractSkeletal Analysis of Craniofacial Deformities in Brachycephaly: Comparison with Craniofacial Deformities in Plagiocephaly The deformities of craniofacial bones in brachycephaly (n = 2) and plagiocephaly (n = 2) were compared using three-dimensional skull replicas. In brachycephaly the bilateral deformities of the cranial base were similar to the unilateral deformities on the affected side in plagiocephaly. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=11484526 & dopt=AbstractThe relationship between craniofacial morphology and obstructive sleep apnea in whites and in African-Americans. (pub. Mar 2001 We assessed the association of head and facial form with the apnea hypopnea index (AHI) in 364 white individuals and 165 African-Americans. We conclude that brachycephaly is associated with an increased AHI in whites but not in African-Americans. http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/full/163/4/947Visual Field Testing in Deformational Plagiocephaly (pub. Dec 2003) Our study demonstrates a notable incidence of visual field constriction in patients with Positional Plagiocephaly (PP.) In addition, patients with PP may have delayed progression of visual field development. Our data sheds doubt on the concept that PP is a benign entity with no neurologic sequelae and requires treatment for cosmetic purposes only. http://www.aans.org/Library/Article.aspx?ArticleId=10865Visual field defects in deformational posterior plagiocephaly. (June 2005) Thirty-five percent of infants with deformational posterior plagiocephaly had constriction of one or both hemifields by at least 20 degrees from established normal patients. Hemifield asymmetry of 20 degrees or more was found in 17.5% of infants tested. Deformational posterior plagiocephaly may affect visual field development but neither the laterality nor the severity of skull deformity is predictive of the severity of visual field defects. (Note: The significance of this study is that severity of this health concern didn't correlate to severity of plagio, so that even mild/moderate plagio might result in more marked visual field constriction.) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15956949 & query_hl=1 The information sounds rather scary, however, it's important to note that this sort of research is still in its infancy, relatively speaking. Of note is that the visual field development study conclusions were confirmed in a second study, and that the Seattle study citing subtle school age problems has also been followed up with a second study that has not yet been published. If I find anything out, I will post to the group. These study links can be found in the Links/Plagio Studies and Research/Health Risks folder.Take care,Christie (Mom to Repo'd Remy)>> Hi my name is and my 6mo Olivia is awaiting authorization to get > a doc band. She has brachycephaly but thankfully doesn't have > significant assymetries yet. My 3yo never had the opportunity to > correct his plagio since my ped at the time didn't advocate banding and > I didn't know enough to pursue it.> > My question for all of you out there is could someone point me to some > information on the functional complications of plagio/brachy? I am now > getting a lot of questions from friends and family about why I want to > put my dear, sweet little girl through the banding process. I know > there is more to it than just cosmetic, it makes sense to me that if > one bone is out of line, there can be problems down the whole chain. > > I know I am doing what is best for my child and it doesn't matter what > others think but I would like some back up to maybe educate others. > Even if you don't have anything formal I would love to hear what you > all have been taught regarding this matter. Thanks so much and I am so > glad there are boards like this where we can go through these things > together.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Hi ,Welcome to the group! I hope you hear back about band authorization soon. Let us know when you do.Brachycephaly is actually plagiocephaly on both sides of the head. Asymmetries are not noted, because the deformation is occurring on both sides of the head. Ears, forehead, cheek, eyes, etc. are all being pushed forward and outward as with plagio. My daughter was mostly brachy, too, with a little plagio thrown in. She didn't have any noticeable asymmetries either, and I think that contributed to allowing myself to be placated by her pediatrician for months. I read often in other posts about family members or friends being unsupportive of choosing the banding option and "putting the baby through that." It can be helpful to tell them that in addition to the usual cosmetic reasons (abnormal skull shape, but can be corrected,) the AAP itself recognizes banding and helmeting as a plagio treatment, and does recommend a baby be referred for evaluation of the helmet/band option at some point. You can see that the AAP certainly doesn't consider banding "putting the baby through that," and, in fact, gives helpful information on best banding age, etc.:AAP Release July 2003 Prevention & Management of Positional Skull Deformities in Infants - AAP finally acknowledges relationship of "back to sleep" in increase in plagio! http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;112/1/199?fulltext=plagiocephaly & searchid=QID_NOT_SET Only in the last few years have scientific studies shown that plagio carries with it a higher risk of certain health issues. None of these conclusions were addressed in the AAP's release (above,) because that only covered plagio data up until 2000, which is the year the first of these health risk studies was published. Hopefully as the data on plagio grows, they will choose to update their recommendations, strengthen their preventive plagio campaign, and provide more detailed repositioning info. Here are the studies that I know about linking plagio with functional health risks:Anthropometric Analysis of Mandibular Asymmetry in Infants with Deformational Posterior Plagiocephaly (pub. Aug. 2002) This study supports the clinical observation that the mandibular asymmetry in deformational posterior plagiocephaly is secondary to rotation of the cranial base and anterior displacement of the temporomandibular joint (quantified by anterior auricular position) and not the result of primary mandibular deformity. Also this study showed that improvement in cranial asymmetry occurred with helmet therapy, but there was no correction of auricular and temporomandibular joint position. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12149730 & dopt=Abstract Auditory ERPs Reveal Brain Dysfunction in Infants with Plagiocephaly (pub. Jul. 2002) In the current study we demonstrated, for the first time, that the central sound processing, as reflected by ERPs, is affected in children with plagiocephaly. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12140415 & dopt=AbstractLong-Term Developmental Outcomes in Patients With Deformational Plagiocephaly (Feb. 2000) Infants with deformational plagiocephaly comprise a high-risk group for developmental difficulties presenting as subtle problems of cerebral dysfunction during the school-age years. There is a need for additional research on the long-term developmental problems in infants with deformational plagiocephaly. plagiocephaly, facial asymmetry, torticollis, developmental delay. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/105/2/e26 Neurodevelopment in Children with Single-Suture Craniosynostosis and Plagiocephaly without Synostosis (pub. Nov. 2001) The objective of this study was to determine whether children with nonsyndromic craniosynostosis and plagiocephaly without synostosis demonstrated cognitive and psychomotor delays when compared with a standardized population sample. 0 percent of the subjects in the group with plagiocephaly without synostosis were accelerated, 67 percent were normal, 20 percent had mild delay, and 13 percent had significant delay. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=11711916 & dopt=AbstractOphthalmologic Findings in Patients with Nonsyndromic Plagiocephaly (pub. July 2003) The purpose of this article was to study the prevalence of strabismus and astigmatism in children with nonsyndromic plagiocephaly. Children with deformational plagiocephaly do have an increased prevalence of astigmatism. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=12867869 & dopt=AbstractSkeletal Analysis of Craniofacial Deformities in Brachycephaly: Comparison with Craniofacial Deformities in Plagiocephaly The deformities of craniofacial bones in brachycephaly (n = 2) and plagiocephaly (n = 2) were compared using three-dimensional skull replicas. In brachycephaly the bilateral deformities of the cranial base were similar to the unilateral deformities on the affected side in plagiocephaly. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=11484526 & dopt=AbstractThe relationship between craniofacial morphology and obstructive sleep apnea in whites and in African-Americans. (pub. Mar 2001 We assessed the association of head and facial form with the apnea hypopnea index (AHI) in 364 white individuals and 165 African-Americans. We conclude that brachycephaly is associated with an increased AHI in whites but not in African-Americans. http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/full/163/4/947Visual Field Testing in Deformational Plagiocephaly (pub. Dec 2003) Our study demonstrates a notable incidence of visual field constriction in patients with Positional Plagiocephaly (PP.) In addition, patients with PP may have delayed progression of visual field development. Our data sheds doubt on the concept that PP is a benign entity with no neurologic sequelae and requires treatment for cosmetic purposes only. http://www.aans.org/Library/Article.aspx?ArticleId=10865Visual field defects in deformational posterior plagiocephaly. (June 2005) Thirty-five percent of infants with deformational posterior plagiocephaly had constriction of one or both hemifields by at least 20 degrees from established normal patients. Hemifield asymmetry of 20 degrees or more was found in 17.5% of infants tested. Deformational posterior plagiocephaly may affect visual field development but neither the laterality nor the severity of skull deformity is predictive of the severity of visual field defects. (Note: The significance of this study is that severity of this health concern didn't correlate to severity of plagio, so that even mild/moderate plagio might result in more marked visual field constriction.) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15956949 & query_hl=1 The information sounds rather scary, however, it's important to note that this sort of research is still in its infancy, relatively speaking. Of note is that the visual field development study conclusions were confirmed in a second study, and that the Seattle study citing subtle school age problems has also been followed up with a second study that has not yet been published. If I find anything out, I will post to the group. These study links can be found in the Links/Plagio Studies and Research/Health Risks folder.Take care,Christie (Mom to Repo'd Remy)>> Hi my name is and my 6mo Olivia is awaiting authorization to get > a doc band. She has brachycephaly but thankfully doesn't have > significant assymetries yet. My 3yo never had the opportunity to > correct his plagio since my ped at the time didn't advocate banding and > I didn't know enough to pursue it.> > My question for all of you out there is could someone point me to some > information on the functional complications of plagio/brachy? I am now > getting a lot of questions from friends and family about why I want to > put my dear, sweet little girl through the banding process. I know > there is more to it than just cosmetic, it makes sense to me that if > one bone is out of line, there can be problems down the whole chain. > > I know I am doing what is best for my child and it doesn't matter what > others think but I would like some back up to maybe educate others. > Even if you don't have anything formal I would love to hear what you > all have been taught regarding this matter. Thanks so much and I am so > glad there are boards like this where we can go through these things > together.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 I dealt with the same feelings, and truthfully, I needed to know what we were doing in for too. Here are a couple things that helped me: 1. Realizing it is preventative medicine (fairly new idea... as opposed to the "wait until you see the problem and then fix it" motif)... so problems may not ever arise, but they could and by the time they surfaced, it would be too late to repair without surgery. 2. There is a strong likelihood of TMJ in plagio cases. 3. Sinus and ear problems could develop. 4. Balance and coordination could be compromised. 5. Bike helmets, glasses, etc. will have trouble fitting correctly. 6. We felt it was easier to explain about a band on a baby rather than explain why we didn't to our child who was being teased. Hope these help you. , mom of Ashlyn, 7 mo., DOCband 11/22/05 From: Plagiocephaly [mailto:Plagiocephaly ] On Behalf Of Chad DamonSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:06 AMPlagiocephaly Subject: Can anyone give some info? Hi my name is and my 6mo Olivia is awaiting authorization to get a doc band. She has brachycephaly but thankfully doesn't have significant assymetries yet. My 3yo never had the opportunity to correct his plagio since my ped at the time didn't advocate banding and I didn't know enough to pursue it.My question for all of you out there is could someone point me to some information on the functional complications of plagio/brachy? I am now getting a lot of questions from friends and family about why I want to put my dear, sweet little girl through the banding process. I know there is more to it than just cosmetic, it makes sense to me that if one bone is out of line, there can be problems down the whole chain. I know I am doing what is best for my child and it doesn't matter what others think but I would like some back up to maybe educate others. Even if you don't have anything formal I would love to hear what you all have been taught regarding this matter. Thanks so much and I am so glad there are boards like this where we can go through these things together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 I dealt with the same feelings, and truthfully, I needed to know what we were doing in for too. Here are a couple things that helped me: 1. Realizing it is preventative medicine (fairly new idea... as opposed to the "wait until you see the problem and then fix it" motif)... so problems may not ever arise, but they could and by the time they surfaced, it would be too late to repair without surgery. 2. There is a strong likelihood of TMJ in plagio cases. 3. Sinus and ear problems could develop. 4. Balance and coordination could be compromised. 5. Bike helmets, glasses, etc. will have trouble fitting correctly. 6. We felt it was easier to explain about a band on a baby rather than explain why we didn't to our child who was being teased. Hope these help you. , mom of Ashlyn, 7 mo., DOCband 11/22/05 From: Plagiocephaly [mailto:Plagiocephaly ] On Behalf Of Chad DamonSent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:06 AMPlagiocephaly Subject: Can anyone give some info? Hi my name is and my 6mo Olivia is awaiting authorization to get a doc band. She has brachycephaly but thankfully doesn't have significant assymetries yet. My 3yo never had the opportunity to correct his plagio since my ped at the time didn't advocate banding and I didn't know enough to pursue it.My question for all of you out there is could someone point me to some information on the functional complications of plagio/brachy? I am now getting a lot of questions from friends and family about why I want to put my dear, sweet little girl through the banding process. I know there is more to it than just cosmetic, it makes sense to me that if one bone is out of line, there can be problems down the whole chain. I know I am doing what is best for my child and it doesn't matter what others think but I would like some back up to maybe educate others. Even if you don't have anything formal I would love to hear what you all have been taught regarding this matter. Thanks so much and I am so glad there are boards like this where we can go through these things together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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