Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

[Guest guest]

Some of us work the night shift.

[Guest guest]

Some of us work the night shift.

[Guest guest]

Some of us work the night shift.

[Guest guest]

Randy, please back up. Try to understand, its not about anything other than

a 15 year-old is not equipped emotionally to make appropriate decisions

about sex. They all WANT to have sex...remember when you were 15? The point

is that it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor specifically

because they are a minor, and adults have undue sway on kids. Its the way

the world works. The point is that a 15 year-old might not know it is wrong

to have sex with an adult, but the adult knows it is wrong. That is why

there is an age of consent. She could be the biggest slut on earth, but she

is still 15 years old and isn't emotionally capable to determining the

possible consequences of her actions. Thats why the adults are in

charge....or should have been in this case. Being willing to have sex with a

37 year old man as a teenager is still rape, period.

You don't have to fight back to have been raped anyway. You are thinking

like a man, not a woman. Very few rape victims fight back aggressively, or

are capable of fighting back. Remember, there were 2 of them.

We don't know, as we weren't there. However, what we DO know is that an

illegal act was committed by 2 adults who should have known better. " Well,

she wanted to " is no defense.

magnetass sends

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5

> year old wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at

> least enough to make marks or cause injury to back her story up!

>

> Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure

> hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I

> read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very

> powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be

> " nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural

> fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself,

> even if she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they

> likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or

> words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get

> hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in

> the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to

> do with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are

> technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has

> accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at their " Mission &

> Vision " page here:

> http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

> mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

> notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's

> a KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened

> adults like ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not

> with the knowledge you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and

> experience of a 15 year old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she

> was still trying to be " good " like she was supposed to be. It took a lot

> of courage for her to come forward with it at all. Check out the actual

> data below. It's attitudes like yours that promote the image that girls

> " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal. Could you look your wife, or

> sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say that? I sure hope not.

> -WalksAlone

>

> The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police.

> U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all

> rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

>

> Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

> national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age,

> show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims

> did not report the offense to the police.

>

> Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

> Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

> enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than

> 12.4

> Randy wrote:

> Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that

> said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you

> going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts

> and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or

> call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing

> that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of

> the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is

> the only victim not the people.

>

> Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

>

>

>

>

>

> <BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

> c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

>

>

> Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

>

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

> By Melody Mc

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

> Star-Telegram Staff Writer

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

>

> FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday

> sentenced

> a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

> sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

>

>

> After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

> addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for

> MedStar

> 14 months.

>

>

>

> " This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

> not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

> devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

> paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

>

>

>

> " When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said.

> " I

> don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

> these painful memories.

>

>

>

> " Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

> choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

> three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

> and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults

> occurred

> in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

>

>

>

> While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

> awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

> the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

> police.

>

>

>

> , who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

> assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

> prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

> attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

> saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

>

>

>

> Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

> calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had

> never

> been in trouble before.

>

>

>

> After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six

> years

> on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

> concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

> eligible for parole.

>

>

>

> During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that

> her

> daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

>

>

>

> " She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

> " Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to

> teach

> her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

>

>

>

> Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

> statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

> victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

>

>

>

> He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

> Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

> trust.

>

>

>

> " I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

> said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of

> what

> happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far

> from

> over.

>

>

>

> Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

>

>

>

> A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy

> Scouts

> of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

>

>

>

> , the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

>

>

>

> During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

> her support for them.

>

>

>

> " Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

> said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her

> family. "

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Randy, please back up. Try to understand, its not about anything other than

a 15 year-old is not equipped emotionally to make appropriate decisions

about sex. They all WANT to have sex...remember when you were 15? The point

is that it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor specifically

because they are a minor, and adults have undue sway on kids. Its the way

the world works. The point is that a 15 year-old might not know it is wrong

to have sex with an adult, but the adult knows it is wrong. That is why

there is an age of consent. She could be the biggest slut on earth, but she

is still 15 years old and isn't emotionally capable to determining the

possible consequences of her actions. Thats why the adults are in

charge....or should have been in this case. Being willing to have sex with a

37 year old man as a teenager is still rape, period.

You don't have to fight back to have been raped anyway. You are thinking

like a man, not a woman. Very few rape victims fight back aggressively, or

are capable of fighting back. Remember, there were 2 of them.

We don't know, as we weren't there. However, what we DO know is that an

illegal act was committed by 2 adults who should have known better. " Well,

she wanted to " is no defense.

magnetass sends

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5

> year old wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at

> least enough to make marks or cause injury to back her story up!

>

> Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure

> hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I

> read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very

> powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be

> " nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural

> fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself,

> even if she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they

> likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or

> words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get

> hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in

> the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to

> do with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are

> technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has

> accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at their " Mission &

> Vision " page here:

> http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

> mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

> notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's

> a KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened

> adults like ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not

> with the knowledge you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and

> experience of a 15 year old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she

> was still trying to be " good " like she was supposed to be. It took a lot

> of courage for her to come forward with it at all. Check out the actual

> data below. It's attitudes like yours that promote the image that girls

> " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal. Could you look your wife, or

> sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say that? I sure hope not.

> -WalksAlone

>

> The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police.

> U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all

> rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

>

> Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

> national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age,

> show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims

> did not report the offense to the police.

>

> Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

> Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

> enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than

> 12.4

> Randy wrote:

> Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that

> said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you

> going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts

> and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or

> call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing

> that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of

> the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is

> the only victim not the people.

>

> Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

>

>

>

>

>

> <BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

> c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

>

>

> Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

>

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

> By Melody Mc

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

> Star-Telegram Staff Writer

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

>

> FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday

> sentenced

> a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

> sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

>

>

> After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

> addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for

> MedStar

> 14 months.

>

>

>

> " This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

> not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

> devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

> paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

>

>

>

> " When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said.

> " I

> don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

> these painful memories.

>

>

>

> " Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

> choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

> three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

> and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults

> occurred

> in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

>

>

>

> While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

> awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

> the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

> police.

>

>

>

> , who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

> assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

> prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

> attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

> saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

>

>

>

> Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

> calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had

> never

> been in trouble before.

>

>

>

> After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six

> years

> on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

> concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

> eligible for parole.

>

>

>

> During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that

> her

> daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

>

>

>

> " She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

> " Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to

> teach

> her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

>

>

>

> Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

> statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

> victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

>

>

>

> He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

> Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

> trust.

>

>

>

> " I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

> said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of

> what

> happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far

> from

> over.

>

>

>

> Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

>

>

>

> A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy

> Scouts

> of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

>

>

>

> , the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

>

>

>

> During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

> her support for them.

>

>

>

> " Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

> said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her

> family. "

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Randy, please back up. Try to understand, its not about anything other than

a 15 year-old is not equipped emotionally to make appropriate decisions

about sex. They all WANT to have sex...remember when you were 15? The point

is that it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor specifically

because they are a minor, and adults have undue sway on kids. Its the way

the world works. The point is that a 15 year-old might not know it is wrong

to have sex with an adult, but the adult knows it is wrong. That is why

there is an age of consent. She could be the biggest slut on earth, but she

is still 15 years old and isn't emotionally capable to determining the

possible consequences of her actions. Thats why the adults are in

charge....or should have been in this case. Being willing to have sex with a

37 year old man as a teenager is still rape, period.

You don't have to fight back to have been raped anyway. You are thinking

like a man, not a woman. Very few rape victims fight back aggressively, or

are capable of fighting back. Remember, there were 2 of them.

We don't know, as we weren't there. However, what we DO know is that an

illegal act was committed by 2 adults who should have known better. " Well,

she wanted to " is no defense.

magnetass sends

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5

> year old wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at

> least enough to make marks or cause injury to back her story up!

>

> Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure

> hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I

> read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very

> powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be

> " nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural

> fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself,

> even if she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they

> likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or

> words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get

> hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in

> the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to

> do with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are

> technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has

> accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at their " Mission &

> Vision " page here:

> http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

> mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

> notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's

> a KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened

> adults like ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not

> with the knowledge you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and

> experience of a 15 year old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she

> was still trying to be " good " like she was supposed to be. It took a lot

> of courage for her to come forward with it at all. Check out the actual

> data below. It's attitudes like yours that promote the image that girls

> " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal. Could you look your wife, or

> sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say that? I sure hope not.

> -WalksAlone

>

> The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police.

> U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all

> rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

>

> Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

> national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age,

> show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims

> did not report the offense to the police.

>

> Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

> Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

> enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than

> 12.4

> Randy wrote:

> Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that

> said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you

> going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts

> and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or

> call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing

> that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of

> the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is

> the only victim not the people.

>

> Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

>

>

>

>

>

> <BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

> c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

>

>

> Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

>

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

> By Melody Mc

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

> Star-Telegram Staff Writer

> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

>

> FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday

> sentenced

> a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

> sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

>

>

> After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

> addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for

> MedStar

> 14 months.

>

>

>

> " This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

> not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

> devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

> paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

>

>

>

> " When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said.

> " I

> don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

> these painful memories.

>

>

>

> " Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

> choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

> three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

> and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults

> occurred

> in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

>

>

>

> While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

> awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

> the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

> police.

>

>

>

> , who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

> assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

> prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

> attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

> saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

>

>

>

> Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

> calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had

> never

> been in trouble before.

>

>

>

> After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six

> years

> on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

> concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

> eligible for parole.

>

>

>

> During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that

> her

> daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

>

>

>

> " She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

> " Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to

> teach

> her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

>

>

>

> Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

> statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

> victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

>

>

>

> He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

> Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

> trust.

>

>

>

> " I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

> said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of

> what

> happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far

> from

> over.

>

>

>

> Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

>

>

>

> A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy

> Scouts

> of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

>

>

>

> , the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

>

>

>

> During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

> her support for them.

>

>

>

> " Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

> said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her

> family. "

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok... you're missing the point. I saw that you said they were wrong to do it,

and they were. The point I was trying to make is this.. YOU are a man. You

don't think like a woman, much less like an impressionable girl. Regardless of

her age, she was raped. It doesn't matter the situation. They could have been

ANY older guys. Who cares that they were medics, who cares that it was an

ambulance... It could have been any men, anywhere. Would you be as defensive

if it was high-school coaches? Youth group leaders? Grocery store managers?

Bums on the street? More than that, have you ever personally *known* someone

that was raped? Odds are you *do*, but don't know it. Think of all your female

friends and co-workers. It's very likely that one or more of them has had to go

through the trauma of being sexually assaulted, whether by coercion, as in this

case, or force. It wouldn't matter if she'd previously screwed the entire

high-school football team and half the cheerleaders.

The fact remains that these guys took advantage of their position of power and

hurt this kid. I wasn't defending *her* in specific, and I never alluded to

knowing anything about her specific history. I was simply pointing out the

statistics. I was also saying that the mindset of *most* 15 year old girls

isn't going to let them lash out. Again, boys think differently. Read " The

Gift of Fear " by Gavin De Becker. It'll give you a better description of what

I'm trying to say. It's all situational. She may have been the most

promiscuous girl in school, doesn't mean she deserves what she got, and it

*sounds* like that's what you're saying.

-WalksAlone

Randy wrote:

Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5 year old

wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at least enough to

make marks or cause injury to back her story up!

Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure hope

not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she

couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And

I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and

cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't

have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there,

you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe,

through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that

she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked

in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do

with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by

the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's

programs for years. Look at their " Mission &

Vision " page here:

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a

KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like

ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge

you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year

old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good "

like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward

with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours

that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal.

Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say

that? I sure hope not.

-WalksAlone

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S.

Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or

attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show

683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not

report the offense to the police.

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

Randy wrote:

Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

<BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

By Melody Mc

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Star-Telegram Staff Writer

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced

a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar

14 months.

" This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

" When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I

don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

these painful memories.

" Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred

in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

police.

, who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never

been in trouble before.

After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years

on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

eligible for parole.

During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her

daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

" She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

" Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach

her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

trust.

" I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what

happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from

over.

Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts

of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

, the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

her support for them.

" Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. "

[Guest guest]

Ok... you're missing the point. I saw that you said they were wrong to do it,

and they were. The point I was trying to make is this.. YOU are a man. You

don't think like a woman, much less like an impressionable girl. Regardless of

her age, she was raped. It doesn't matter the situation. They could have been

ANY older guys. Who cares that they were medics, who cares that it was an

ambulance... It could have been any men, anywhere. Would you be as defensive

if it was high-school coaches? Youth group leaders? Grocery store managers?

Bums on the street? More than that, have you ever personally *known* someone

that was raped? Odds are you *do*, but don't know it. Think of all your female

friends and co-workers. It's very likely that one or more of them has had to go

through the trauma of being sexually assaulted, whether by coercion, as in this

case, or force. It wouldn't matter if she'd previously screwed the entire

high-school football team and half the cheerleaders.

The fact remains that these guys took advantage of their position of power and

hurt this kid. I wasn't defending *her* in specific, and I never alluded to

knowing anything about her specific history. I was simply pointing out the

statistics. I was also saying that the mindset of *most* 15 year old girls

isn't going to let them lash out. Again, boys think differently. Read " The

Gift of Fear " by Gavin De Becker. It'll give you a better description of what

I'm trying to say. It's all situational. She may have been the most

promiscuous girl in school, doesn't mean she deserves what she got, and it

*sounds* like that's what you're saying.

-WalksAlone

Randy wrote:

Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5 year old

wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at least enough to

make marks or cause injury to back her story up!

Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure hope

not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she

couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And

I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and

cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't

have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there,

you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe,

through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that

she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked

in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do

with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by

the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's

programs for years. Look at their " Mission &

Vision " page here:

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a

KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like

ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge

you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year

old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good "

like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward

with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours

that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal.

Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say

that? I sure hope not.

-WalksAlone

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S.

Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or

attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show

683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not

report the offense to the police.

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

Randy wrote:

Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

<BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

By Melody Mc

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Star-Telegram Staff Writer

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced

a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar

14 months.

" This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

" When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I

don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

these painful memories.

" Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred

in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

police.

, who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never

been in trouble before.

After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years

on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

eligible for parole.

During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her

daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

" She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

" Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach

her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

trust.

" I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what

happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from

over.

Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts

of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

, the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

her support for them.

" Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. "

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the book recommendations, Mike. I do read lot's of different stuff,

so I'm sure I'll find one or

both of them interesting. But the point I was trying to make, even an adult can

be intimidated into being

compliant. And there were two men. Most woman wouldn't stand much of a chance

against 2 men in the back of an ambulance. And many won't fight back for fear

of being further injured, and that is a legitimate concern.

Meredith

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

> You still don't get it.....it is not about age. If she had been 18, or 21 or

40, it still would have

> been rape.

> Though it's possible these cowards wouldn't have tried it with an older

female. On the other

> hand.....if you are capable of rape, you are capable of rape.

*********************

Actually, at 18, 21, or 40, it would have been arguable, at least,

that it's not rape. And 18 year old, 21 year old, or 40 year old

would have been progressively more capable of recognizing the

psychodynamics of the situation and getting out of it... and

physically more capable of fighting, should the need have arisen.

Regardless of how their lawyers could have argued the case, the

ethical dilemna remains - even if it's consentual, is it ethical,

especially with what's effectively a student whom you're in

supervision of?

For what it's worth, everyone among us is CAPABLE of rape. If you can

imagine it, no matter how it horrifies you to do so, you're at the

very least CAPABLE of performing the act.

If you'd like more insight into this, I'd suggest two books:

The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker

and

On Killing, by Lt. Col. Grossman (ret.)

Both explain a lot about how the mind works in fearful scenarios, and

the mental coping tools we use to justify our actions in a variety of

circumstances.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the book recommendations, Mike. I do read lot's of different stuff,

so I'm sure I'll find one or

both of them interesting. But the point I was trying to make, even an adult can

be intimidated into being

compliant. And there were two men. Most woman wouldn't stand much of a chance

against 2 men in the back of an ambulance. And many won't fight back for fear

of being further injured, and that is a legitimate concern.

Meredith

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

> You still don't get it.....it is not about age. If she had been 18, or 21 or

40, it still would have

> been rape.

> Though it's possible these cowards wouldn't have tried it with an older

female. On the other

> hand.....if you are capable of rape, you are capable of rape.

*********************

Actually, at 18, 21, or 40, it would have been arguable, at least,

that it's not rape. And 18 year old, 21 year old, or 40 year old

would have been progressively more capable of recognizing the

psychodynamics of the situation and getting out of it... and

physically more capable of fighting, should the need have arisen.

Regardless of how their lawyers could have argued the case, the

ethical dilemna remains - even if it's consentual, is it ethical,

especially with what's effectively a student whom you're in

supervision of?

For what it's worth, everyone among us is CAPABLE of rape. If you can

imagine it, no matter how it horrifies you to do so, you're at the

very least CAPABLE of performing the act.

If you'd like more insight into this, I'd suggest two books:

The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker

and

On Killing, by Lt. Col. Grossman (ret.)

Both explain a lot about how the mind works in fearful scenarios, and

the mental coping tools we use to justify our actions in a variety of

circumstances.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the book recommendations, Mike. I do read lot's of different stuff,

so I'm sure I'll find one or

both of them interesting. But the point I was trying to make, even an adult can

be intimidated into being

compliant. And there were two men. Most woman wouldn't stand much of a chance

against 2 men in the back of an ambulance. And many won't fight back for fear

of being further injured, and that is a legitimate concern.

Meredith

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

> You still don't get it.....it is not about age. If she had been 18, or 21 or

40, it still would have

> been rape.

> Though it's possible these cowards wouldn't have tried it with an older

female. On the other

> hand.....if you are capable of rape, you are capable of rape.

*********************

Actually, at 18, 21, or 40, it would have been arguable, at least,

that it's not rape. And 18 year old, 21 year old, or 40 year old

would have been progressively more capable of recognizing the

psychodynamics of the situation and getting out of it... and

physically more capable of fighting, should the need have arisen.

Regardless of how their lawyers could have argued the case, the

ethical dilemna remains - even if it's consentual, is it ethical,

especially with what's effectively a student whom you're in

supervision of?

For what it's worth, everyone among us is CAPABLE of rape. If you can

imagine it, no matter how it horrifies you to do so, you're at the

very least CAPABLE of performing the act.

If you'd like more insight into this, I'd suggest two books:

The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker

and

On Killing, by Lt. Col. Grossman (ret.)

Both explain a lot about how the mind works in fearful scenarios, and

the mental coping tools we use to justify our actions in a variety of

circumstances.

Mike

[Guest guest]

I didn't think you were being disagreeable. I just wanted to be sure I made my

point.

Meredith

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> > You still don't get it.....it is not about age. If she had been 18, or

21 or 40, it still would have

> > been rape.

> > Though it's possible these cowards wouldn't have tried it with an older

female. On the other

> > hand.....if you are capable of rape, you are capable of rape.

>

> *********************

> Actually, at 18, 21, or 40, it would have been arguable, at least,

> that it's not rape. And 18 year old, 21 year old, or 40 year old

> would have been progressively more capable of recognizing the

> psychodynamics of the situation and getting out of it... and

> physically more capable of fighting, should the need have arisen.

> Regardless of how their lawyers could have argued the case, the

> ethical dilemna remains - even if it's consentual, is it ethical,

> especially with what's effectively a student whom you're in

> supervision of?

>

> For what it's worth, everyone among us is CAPABLE of rape. If you can

> imagine it, no matter how it horrifies you to do so, you're at the

> very least CAPABLE of performing the act.

>

> If you'd like more insight into this, I'd suggest two books:

>

> The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker

>

> and

>

> On Killing, by Lt. Col. Grossman (ret.)

>

> Both explain a lot about how the mind works in fearful scenarios, and

> the mental coping tools we use to justify our actions in a variety of

> circumstances.

>

> Mike

>

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't think you were being disagreeable. I just wanted to be sure I made my

point.

Meredith

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> > You still don't get it.....it is not about age. If she had been 18, or

21 or 40, it still would have

> > been rape.

> > Though it's possible these cowards wouldn't have tried it with an older

female. On the other

> > hand.....if you are capable of rape, you are capable of rape.

>

> *********************

> Actually, at 18, 21, or 40, it would have been arguable, at least,

> that it's not rape. And 18 year old, 21 year old, or 40 year old

> would have been progressively more capable of recognizing the

> psychodynamics of the situation and getting out of it... and

> physically more capable of fighting, should the need have arisen.

> Regardless of how their lawyers could have argued the case, the

> ethical dilemna remains - even if it's consentual, is it ethical,

> especially with what's effectively a student whom you're in

> supervision of?

>

> For what it's worth, everyone among us is CAPABLE of rape. If you can

> imagine it, no matter how it horrifies you to do so, you're at the

> very least CAPABLE of performing the act.

>

> If you'd like more insight into this, I'd suggest two books:

>

> The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker

>

> and

>

> On Killing, by Lt. Col. Grossman (ret.)

>

> Both explain a lot about how the mind works in fearful scenarios, and

> the mental coping tools we use to justify our actions in a variety of

> circumstances.

>

> Mike

>

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't think you were being disagreeable. I just wanted to be sure I made my

point.

Meredith

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> > You still don't get it.....it is not about age. If she had been 18, or

21 or 40, it still would have

> > been rape.

> > Though it's possible these cowards wouldn't have tried it with an older

female. On the other

> > hand.....if you are capable of rape, you are capable of rape.

>

> *********************

> Actually, at 18, 21, or 40, it would have been arguable, at least,

> that it's not rape. And 18 year old, 21 year old, or 40 year old

> would have been progressively more capable of recognizing the

> psychodynamics of the situation and getting out of it... and

> physically more capable of fighting, should the need have arisen.

> Regardless of how their lawyers could have argued the case, the

> ethical dilemna remains - even if it's consentual, is it ethical,

> especially with what's effectively a student whom you're in

> supervision of?

>

> For what it's worth, everyone among us is CAPABLE of rape. If you can

> imagine it, no matter how it horrifies you to do so, you're at the

> very least CAPABLE of performing the act.

>

> If you'd like more insight into this, I'd suggest two books:

>

> The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker

>

> and

>

> On Killing, by Lt. Col. Grossman (ret.)

>

> Both explain a lot about how the mind works in fearful scenarios, and

> the mental coping tools we use to justify our actions in a variety of

> circumstances.

>

> Mike

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, I have to ask....what is everybody else doing up so late that they're

posting so much to the topic?

Are you all night people too or did this topic just spark a lot of passionate

debate?

Meredith

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:35:17 -0600, Brown

> wrote:

> I now know why Mike is so freaking warped :-)

Don't you have a camel to attend to?

Mike

PS - I love you man!

[Guest guest]

Okay, I have to ask....what is everybody else doing up so late that they're

posting so much to the topic?

Are you all night people too or did this topic just spark a lot of passionate

debate?

Meredith

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:35:17 -0600, Brown

> wrote:

> I now know why Mike is so freaking warped :-)

Don't you have a camel to attend to?

Mike

PS - I love you man!

[Guest guest]

Okay, I have to ask....what is everybody else doing up so late that they're

posting so much to the topic?

Are you all night people too or did this topic just spark a lot of passionate

debate?

Meredith

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:35:17 -0600, Brown

> wrote:

> I now know why Mike is so freaking warped :-)

Don't you have a camel to attend to?

Mike

PS - I love you man!

[Guest guest]

Ah yes, I forget some stations get internet at work. But the benadryl is kicking

in now, so I bid you all a good

night and/or good shift.

Meredith

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:35:17 -0600, Brown

<magnetass@...<mailto:magnetass@...<mailto:magnetass@houst\

on.rr.com>> wrote:

> I now know why Mike is so freaking warped :-)

Don't you have a camel to attend to?

Mike

PS - I love you man!

[Guest guest]

Ok, as I was reading your message, all I could hear was Charlie Browns teacher

talking, which is the norm when reading most of your replies, until I got to the

part of the message where you are basically calling me a pedophile. Well pervert

maybe, pedophile I'm am not. Having been the victim of a sexual predator myself

at a very young age, it bothers me that you, a condescending pompass windbag,

who apparently believes he is the epitome of morality, and does not even know

me, would make such an accusation. Now a smartass I definitely am to certain

people. If you would like some " rationale " , all you need to do is just reply to

me personally like Gene did and ask some somewhat intelligent questions and I'll

be happy to explain my " rationale " . Now when you threw up, I sure hope you

didn't choke on it.

Ken

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you

going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and

understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911

from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read

has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that

she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the

people.

>

> ************

>

> Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

> back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

> her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> you're driving her so wild?

>

> Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

> are you just clueless about things like this in general?

>

> Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

> considered professionals...

>

> Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

> pray for laryngitis.

>

> Mike :/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, as I was reading your message, all I could hear was Charlie Browns teacher

talking, which is the norm when reading most of your replies, until I got to the

part of the message where you are basically calling me a pedophile. Well pervert

maybe, pedophile I'm am not. Having been the victim of a sexual predator myself

at a very young age, it bothers me that you, a condescending pompass windbag,

who apparently believes he is the epitome of morality, and does not even know

me, would make such an accusation. Now a smartass I definitely am to certain

people. If you would like some " rationale " , all you need to do is just reply to

me personally like Gene did and ask some somewhat intelligent questions and I'll

be happy to explain my " rationale " . Now when you threw up, I sure hope you

didn't choke on it.

Ken

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you

going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and

understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911

from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read

has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that

she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the

people.

>

> ************

>

> Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

> back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

> her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> you're driving her so wild?

>

> Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

> are you just clueless about things like this in general?

>

> Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

> considered professionals...

>

> Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

> pray for laryngitis.

>

> Mike :/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, as I was reading your message, all I could hear was Charlie Browns teacher

talking, which is the norm when reading most of your replies, until I got to the

part of the message where you are basically calling me a pedophile. Well pervert

maybe, pedophile I'm am not. Having been the victim of a sexual predator myself

at a very young age, it bothers me that you, a condescending pompass windbag,

who apparently believes he is the epitome of morality, and does not even know

me, would make such an accusation. Now a smartass I definitely am to certain

people. If you would like some " rationale " , all you need to do is just reply to

me personally like Gene did and ask some somewhat intelligent questions and I'll

be happy to explain my " rationale " . Now when you threw up, I sure hope you

didn't choke on it.

Ken

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you

going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and

understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911

from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read

has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that

she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the

people.

>

> ************

>

> Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

> back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

> her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> you're driving her so wild?

>

> Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

> are you just clueless about things like this in general?

>

> Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

> considered professionals...

>

> Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

> pray for laryngitis.

>

> Mike :/

>

>

[Guest guest]

I hope to make my self under stood so please bare with me. I retired form EMS

last year after 39 years. I was very proud to be a paramedic so proud even

though I know I will never work again as a Paramedic I kept my certification and

have 4 years left on my current certification. My new job is working in the

prison system as a correction officer I am a Co3, I work daily with people who

justify there raping of 15 year old children of both sexes. Those people are an

abomination to the EMS profession and belong where I can supervise them for the

rest of there lives. I am sorry to see things like this happen in EMS as I

always thought only the best people were in EMS. I will soon probably be

receiving 2 new rapist child molesters scum bags offenders to take charge of be

glad to see them in my care. They may rest assured I will see to it they only

get the best of long term care for the rest of there lives from the State of

Texas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

> You still don't get it.....it is not about age. If she had been 18, or 21

or 40, it still would have

> been rape.

> Though it's possible these cowards wouldn't have tried it with an older

female. On the other

> hand.....if you are capable of rape, you are capable of rape.

*********************

Actually, at 18, 21, or 40, it would have been arguable, at least,

that it's not rape. And 18 year old, 21 year old, or 40 year old

would have been progressively more capable of recognizing the

psychodynamics of the situation and getting out of it... and

physically more capable of fighting, should the need have arisen.

Regardless of how their lawyers could have argued the case, the

ethical dilemna remains - even if it's consentual, is it ethical,

especially with what's effectively a student whom you're in

supervision of?

For what it's worth, everyone among us is CAPABLE of rape. If you can

imagine it, no matter how it horrifies you to do so, you're at the

very least CAPABLE of performing the act.

If you'd like more insight into this, I'd suggest two books:

The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker

and

On Killing, by Lt. Col. Grossman (ret.)

Both explain a lot about how the mind works in fearful scenarios, and

the mental coping tools we use to justify our actions in a variety of

circumstances.

Mike

[Guest guest]

I hope to make my self under stood so please bare with me. I retired form EMS

last year after 39 years. I was very proud to be a paramedic so proud even

though I know I will never work again as a Paramedic I kept my certification and

have 4 years left on my current certification. My new job is working in the

prison system as a correction officer I am a Co3, I work daily with people who

justify there raping of 15 year old children of both sexes. Those people are an

abomination to the EMS profession and belong where I can supervise them for the

rest of there lives. I am sorry to see things like this happen in EMS as I

always thought only the best people were in EMS. I will soon probably be

receiving 2 new rapist child molesters scum bags offenders to take charge of be

glad to see them in my care. They may rest assured I will see to it they only

get the best of long term care for the rest of there lives from the State of

Texas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

> You still don't get it.....it is not about age. If she had been 18, or 21

or 40, it still would have

> been rape.

> Though it's possible these cowards wouldn't have tried it with an older

female. On the other

> hand.....if you are capable of rape, you are capable of rape.

*********************

Actually, at 18, 21, or 40, it would have been arguable, at least,

that it's not rape. And 18 year old, 21 year old, or 40 year old

would have been progressively more capable of recognizing the

psychodynamics of the situation and getting out of it... and

physically more capable of fighting, should the need have arisen.

Regardless of how their lawyers could have argued the case, the

ethical dilemna remains - even if it's consentual, is it ethical,

especially with what's effectively a student whom you're in

supervision of?

For what it's worth, everyone among us is CAPABLE of rape. If you can

imagine it, no matter how it horrifies you to do so, you're at the

very least CAPABLE of performing the act.

If you'd like more insight into this, I'd suggest two books:

The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker

and

On Killing, by Lt. Col. Grossman (ret.)

Both explain a lot about how the mind works in fearful scenarios, and

the mental coping tools we use to justify our actions in a variety of

circumstances.

Mike

[Guest guest]

I hope to make my self under stood so please bare with me. I retired form EMS

last year after 39 years. I was very proud to be a paramedic so proud even

though I know I will never work again as a Paramedic I kept my certification and

have 4 years left on my current certification. My new job is working in the

prison system as a correction officer I am a Co3, I work daily with people who

justify there raping of 15 year old children of both sexes. Those people are an

abomination to the EMS profession and belong where I can supervise them for the

rest of there lives. I am sorry to see things like this happen in EMS as I

always thought only the best people were in EMS. I will soon probably be

receiving 2 new rapist child molesters scum bags offenders to take charge of be

glad to see them in my care. They may rest assured I will see to it they only

get the best of long term care for the rest of there lives from the State of

Texas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

> You still don't get it.....it is not about age. If she had been 18, or 21

or 40, it still would have

> been rape.

> Though it's possible these cowards wouldn't have tried it with an older

female. On the other

> hand.....if you are capable of rape, you are capable of rape.

*********************

Actually, at 18, 21, or 40, it would have been arguable, at least,

that it's not rape. And 18 year old, 21 year old, or 40 year old

would have been progressively more capable of recognizing the

psychodynamics of the situation and getting out of it... and

physically more capable of fighting, should the need have arisen.

Regardless of how their lawyers could have argued the case, the

ethical dilemna remains - even if it's consentual, is it ethical,

especially with what's effectively a student whom you're in

supervision of?

For what it's worth, everyone among us is CAPABLE of rape. If you can

imagine it, no matter how it horrifies you to do so, you're at the

very least CAPABLE of performing the act.

If you'd like more insight into this, I'd suggest two books:

The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker

and

On Killing, by Lt. Col. Grossman (ret.)

Both explain a lot about how the mind works in fearful scenarios, and

the mental coping tools we use to justify our actions in a variety of

circumstances.

Mike

[Guest guest]

For years we,as EMS providers,have been trying to gain

for lack of a better term,acceptance with in the

medical community. And become a part of 'the team'.

But incidents like this,send our credability in to the

crapper.My thinking is until there is an elevated

hiring process and psycological evaluations we wont

get the cream of the crop,per se. There have been

other incidents which have not been as high profile.

But the persons involved had it situation swept under

the carpet. Until one of them cracked up and kidnapped

his wife and sister in law at gunpoint. He was also a

prime suspect in another set of crimes as well.

---

wrote:

> I also agree. The concept of do no harm also

> applies to our work mates, ride-alongs, or the

> general public. We have a TRUST and we MUST uphold

> that Trust.

>

>

>

> christina kelley wrote:

>

> this kind of behavior in ems upsets me. this kind of

> behavior is what gives

> this kind of business a bad rap.

>

> >

> >Reply-To:

> >To: < >

> >Subject: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year

> old

> >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:10:00 -0600

> >

> >Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

><BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

>

>c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

> >

>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

> >

> >

> >Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

> >

> >

>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

> >By Melody Mc

> >

>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

> >Star-Telegram Staff Writer

> >

>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

> >

> >FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of

> deliberations, jurors Friday

> >sentenced

> >a former MedStar emergency medical technician to

> six years in prison for

> >sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back

> of an ambulance.

> >

> >

> >After the verdict was read, the victim's mother

> took the witness stand and

> >addressed 29-year-old ,

> who had worked for MedStar

> >14 months.

> >

> >

> >

> > " This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there

> to care for victims --

> >not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman

> told about the

> >devastation he had caused her daughter, who had

> dreams of becoming a

> >paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's

> Explorer program.

> >

> >

> >

> > " When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue

> 911, " the woman said. " I

> >don't know how she will ever be able to look at a

> medical career without

> >these painful memories.

> >

> >

> >

> > " Another of her goals was to save herself for

> marriage. But you took that

> >choice away from her before she could make that for

> herself. " During the

> >three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that

> she was riding with

> > and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic,

> when the assaults

> >occurred

> >in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

> >

> >

> >

> >While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping

> center near Ridgmar Mall

> >awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her

> into having sex with them,

> >the girl testified. The girl later told her mother,

> who reported it to

> >police.

> >

> >

> >

> >, who earlier this week pleaded guilty to

> three counts of sexual

> >assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from

> probation to 20 years in

> >prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County

> assistant district

> >attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing

> less than eight years,

> >saying he violated the community's trust and

> manipulated a young girl.

> >

> >

> >

> >Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy

> argued for probation,

> >calling the sex " consensual " and saying was

> a good man who had

> >never

> >been in trouble before.

> >

> >

> >

> >After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury

> sentenced him to six years

> >on one count and two years on the other two counts.

> The sentences will run

> >concurrently. must serve a minimum of three

> years before he is

> >eligible for parole.

> >

> >

> >

> >During her victim impact statement, the girl's

> mother told that her

> >daughter had never been on her first date or alone

> with a boy her age.

> >

> >

> >

> > " She didn't have the knowledge or experience to

> fend you off, " she said.

> > " Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's

> eyes and be able to

> >teach

> >her from experience how to protect herself from a

> predator like you. "

> >

> >

> >

> >Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed --

> to allow him to make a

> >statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom

> and turned and faced the

> >victim and her family, who were being comforted by

> his estranged wife.

> >

> >

> >

> >He apologized to all of them -- as well as his

> family and the city of Fort

> >Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused

> and for violating their

> >trust.

> >

> >

> >

> > " I broke that trust in one single act of

> selfishness and I apologize, " he

> >said. And while jurors have decided 's fate,

> the implications of

> >what

> >happened that day in the back of the ambulance are

> far-reaching and far

> >from

> >over.

> >

> >

> >

> >Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail,

> awaiting his trial.

> >

> >

> >

> >A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance

> company and the Boy Scouts

> >of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

> >

> >

> >

> > , the defendant's wife, has filed for

> divorce.

> >

> >

> >

> >During the trial, sat with the victim

> and her family to show

> >her support for them.

> >

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________