progesterone and bone loss

[Guest guest]

One of the last digests I read included a question about progesterone cream

and whether or not it prevents bone loss.

As I was commuting to work this morning (I drive down to the barn), I was

listening to The Peoples' Pharmacy radio program. They had an expert in

botanicals on, who stated that in a " well controlled study " it was determined

that there was no difference in bone loss between a group using progesterone

cream and one using plain cream with calcium. There WAS some added control

of other symptoms of menopause, however.

I didn't listen to the entire program, as I had to attend to the farm work.

There is usually a transcript which shows up on peoplespharmacy.com if

anyone's interested in reading all about it.

[Guest guest]

Jody,

As I've been thinking and discussing about the hormone replacement lately,

here are a few other thoughts: In Chinese medicine, the time of menopause is

seen as a wonderful " second awakening " in women; that after all the

childbearing, menstruation and hormonal upheaval is over, women can finally

concentrate on self-enrichment, a career, etc. They believe that replacing

hormones unnecessarily prolongs the onset of this wonderful new age.

I have taken my Chinese herbs for peri-menopausal symptoms for years now,

and while I've had a few hot-flash periods in my life, I've not suffered

from them for long. Also my friend Jackie, who because of developing a large

tumor on her liver (which was successfully removed) stopped her hormone

replacement (she's nearing 60), found that all the hot flashes she'd avoided

came at once when she quit! She said that it seemed that the hormones put it

off, but didn't do a thing to stop them in the long run.

One thing I did was have my doc order the bone density scan, just to quell

my uneasiness about the potential for having both GD and menopause affect my

bones--and it came back completely normal. So, I don't have that worry

anymore. I am enjoying menopause (since August so far w/o a period) and

feeling wonderful without the " monthly migraine " I had, as well.

Anyway, I wonder did you ever get in to see that acupuncturist? Herbs for

hot flashes do work!

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:03:30 -0500

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: progesterone and bone loss

>

> Hi Redhen,

> Thanks for the info, I will go check it out. I didn't know if it did

> anything for bone loss...but I do know it really really helps with hot

> flashes!!! And those to me are the worst part of peri-menopause!

> Jody

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

> of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jody,

As I've been thinking and discussing about the hormone replacement lately,

here are a few other thoughts: In Chinese medicine, the time of menopause is

seen as a wonderful " second awakening " in women; that after all the

childbearing, menstruation and hormonal upheaval is over, women can finally

concentrate on self-enrichment, a career, etc. They believe that replacing

hormones unnecessarily prolongs the onset of this wonderful new age.

I have taken my Chinese herbs for peri-menopausal symptoms for years now,

and while I've had a few hot-flash periods in my life, I've not suffered

from them for long. Also my friend Jackie, who because of developing a large

tumor on her liver (which was successfully removed) stopped her hormone

replacement (she's nearing 60), found that all the hot flashes she'd avoided

came at once when she quit! She said that it seemed that the hormones put it

off, but didn't do a thing to stop them in the long run.

One thing I did was have my doc order the bone density scan, just to quell

my uneasiness about the potential for having both GD and menopause affect my

bones--and it came back completely normal. So, I don't have that worry

anymore. I am enjoying menopause (since August so far w/o a period) and

feeling wonderful without the " monthly migraine " I had, as well.

Anyway, I wonder did you ever get in to see that acupuncturist? Herbs for

hot flashes do work!

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:03:30 -0500

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: progesterone and bone loss

>

> Hi Redhen,

> Thanks for the info, I will go check it out. I didn't know if it did

> anything for bone loss...but I do know it really really helps with hot

> flashes!!! And those to me are the worst part of peri-menopause!

> Jody

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

> of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just my take on the HRT issue...

HRT scares the bejesus out of me! I'll never take it. And I'm scared to

death of what will happen to me when I reach menopause.

DES (diethylstilbestrol) is a synthetic estrogen that was given to pregnant

women from the 1940's until 1971 to supposedly prevent miscarriage. My Mom

took it her entire 2nd and 3rd trimester while pregnant with me. In 1971 the

FDA yanked DES off the market because it was found to cause a rare cancer of

the cervix in the female babies that were born (clear cell carcinoma). Now,

we know that studies were done in the 1950's that proved that DES was NOT

effective in preventing miscarriage....it was the bed rest that was

prescribed along with the DES that prevented the miscarriages.

The scary part of this is that DES was promoted by the pharmacuetical

companies not only as a miscarriage preventative...but also as a medicine to

ensure that you would have a healthy, big baby!! Thousands and thousands of

women took this medication...some where not even told what it was...they were

told it was a vitamin!!

Those of us that are DES babies have horrendous problems with infertility,

ectopic pregnancies, incompetent cervix's, deviated uterus's, cockscomb

cervix, hooded cervix plus the increased cancer risk and increased incidence

of autoimmune problems! (Maybe this is where mine came from?)

But ironically, I'm thankful to be a DES daughter because it taught me to

question the medical authorities on everything! To do my homework and

research every medication BEFORE I take it. It's probably the number one

reason why I said no to RAI. Just because it's the treatment du jour does

not make it the BEST treatment.

Sorry, I got off on a tangent....the DES issue is a real sore spot with me,

as you can tell. We, the exposed offspring, have no legal recourse for this

travesty and it makes me so mad! It's a horrific page in medical history and

everyone should know about it so that the pharmacuetical companies do not win

in sweeping it under the rug.

Doris

exposed in utero to DES, 1959

[Guest guest]

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:17:21 -0800

> To: <graves_support >

> Subject: Re: progesterone and bone loss

>

> Hi Terry and Jody,

>

> This is interesting for me, since my peri-menopause started less than a year

> ago. Of course, my ob/gyn don't believe in me taking any kind of hormones,

> birth control, etc. He says that the hormone thing with the graves disease

> is enough and he wouldn't recommmend it for me.

I wish there were more doctors like yours! My GP wanted me on replacements,

but I refused--at least he didn't push.

>

> My aunt that was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2000 was on hormone

> replacement. They told her she would have gotten the breast cancer either

> way but the hormone replacement made the tumor grow, so it showed up sooner.

My friend is SURE that the hormone replacement caused her tumor--but years

ago when I asked her about it, she was also sure that hormones were the

right thing for her.

But, I was curious after reading this here because my great

> aunt has been on hormone replacement for quite a few years. She was 76

> this past Dec. and she is still going through horrible hot flashes. All I

> could think was man I don't want this. My great aunt does have a bad case

> of osteoporosis but she has been on thyroid replacement for 40-50 yrs. for

> hypothyroid and never took mag/cal.

My MIL has mentioned terrible hot flashes--she's 84. But with her brain

cancer and all, I 'm not sure what's what with her.

>

> Now I am still having my periods, they've been a little off. I went from

> the 25th of the month to the 15th since December 2001. But they are getting

> shorter. The first 24-36 hrs. is heavy by the third day it is overwith.

> Does that mean shortly I will be stopping or skipping months? I've also

> noticed that my ovulation is changing, which there were times it would last

> 4 or 5 days and it is now only lasting 1 or 2 days. But I have noticed the

> migraines are getting worse, for a while they slowed down. I do get

> concerned about them, because during my bad hyper period I had cluster

> headaches for days or weeks unend. The longest lasted 6 wks.

>

Mine was opposite yours, very long and heavy periods, erratically spaced,

sometimes I went 3 months, other times 15 days between. By the time they

stopped I was just dying for it to be over!

>

> My aunt is very close to us girls, she knows our mother died before we

> could talk to her about these things. She is also the one that talked to me

> when we were thinking about having Chuck get fixed. At the time we

> discussed it here too. After research we decided against it.

Bart wouldn't do that either.

>

I've even been thinking of taking a class over the internet and

> getting a degree from the University of Arizona, now that surprised my

> husband. I told him if something happens to me I can't leave my kids to get

> a job after being home with them for 16 yrs. It would crush them. We will

> see I haven't taken that step yet, but he has always told me if and when I

> wanted to go to college he would let me. 4 yrs. ago I never would have

> dreamed I could do that after being so sick for so long with this disease,

> but that is also a plus that came out of joining this group.

That's so wonderful! It's inspiring that you are getting to the point of

having that much energy and motivation. I hope it works out that you can

find the time.

>

> Debbie R.

>

> Who has decided you can let this disease consume you or you can fight this

> disease with all you have. We are the only ones who can control our health

> by our choices.

>

>>

>> Reply-To: graves_support

>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:36:51 -0800

>> To: <graves_support >

>> Subject: Re: progesterone and bone loss

>>

>> Jody,

>>

>> As I've been thinking and discussing about the hormone replacement lately,

>> here are a few other thoughts: In Chinese medicine, the time of menopause is

>> seen as a wonderful " second awakening " in women; that after all the

>> childbearing, menstruation and hormonal upheaval is over, women can finally

>> concentrate on self-enrichment, a career, etc. They believe that replacing

>> hormones unnecessarily prolongs the onset of this wonderful new age.

>>

>> I have taken my Chinese herbs for peri-menopausal symptoms for years now,

>> and while I've had a few hot-flash periods in my life, I've not suffered

>> from them for long. Also my friend Jackie, who because of developing a large

>> tumor on her liver (which was successfully removed) stopped her hormone

>> replacement (she's nearing 60), found that all the hot flashes she'd avoided

>> came at once when she quit! She said that it seemed that the hormones put it

>> off, but didn't do a thing to stop them in the long run.

>>

>> One thing I did was have my doc order the bone density scan, just to quell

>> my uneasiness about the potential for having both GD and menopause affect my

>> bones--and it came back completely normal. So, I don't have that worry

>> anymore. I am enjoying menopause (since August so far w/o a period) and

>> feeling wonderful without the " monthly migraine " I had, as well.

>>

>> Anyway, I wonder did you ever get in to see that acupuncturist? Herbs for

>> hot flashes do work!

>>

>> Terry

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

> of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:17:21 -0800

> To: <graves_support >

> Subject: Re: progesterone and bone loss

>

> Hi Terry and Jody,

>

> This is interesting for me, since my peri-menopause started less than a year

> ago. Of course, my ob/gyn don't believe in me taking any kind of hormones,

> birth control, etc. He says that the hormone thing with the graves disease

> is enough and he wouldn't recommmend it for me.

I wish there were more doctors like yours! My GP wanted me on replacements,

but I refused--at least he didn't push.

>

> My aunt that was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2000 was on hormone

> replacement. They told her she would have gotten the breast cancer either

> way but the hormone replacement made the tumor grow, so it showed up sooner.

My friend is SURE that the hormone replacement caused her tumor--but years

ago when I asked her about it, she was also sure that hormones were the

right thing for her.

But, I was curious after reading this here because my great

> aunt has been on hormone replacement for quite a few years. She was 76

> this past Dec. and she is still going through horrible hot flashes. All I

> could think was man I don't want this. My great aunt does have a bad case

> of osteoporosis but she has been on thyroid replacement for 40-50 yrs. for

> hypothyroid and never took mag/cal.

My MIL has mentioned terrible hot flashes--she's 84. But with her brain

cancer and all, I 'm not sure what's what with her.

>

> Now I am still having my periods, they've been a little off. I went from

> the 25th of the month to the 15th since December 2001. But they are getting

> shorter. The first 24-36 hrs. is heavy by the third day it is overwith.

> Does that mean shortly I will be stopping or skipping months? I've also

> noticed that my ovulation is changing, which there were times it would last

> 4 or 5 days and it is now only lasting 1 or 2 days. But I have noticed the

> migraines are getting worse, for a while they slowed down. I do get

> concerned about them, because during my bad hyper period I had cluster

> headaches for days or weeks unend. The longest lasted 6 wks.

>

Mine was opposite yours, very long and heavy periods, erratically spaced,

sometimes I went 3 months, other times 15 days between. By the time they

stopped I was just dying for it to be over!

>

> My aunt is very close to us girls, she knows our mother died before we

> could talk to her about these things. She is also the one that talked to me

> when we were thinking about having Chuck get fixed. At the time we

> discussed it here too. After research we decided against it.

Bart wouldn't do that either.

>

I've even been thinking of taking a class over the internet and

> getting a degree from the University of Arizona, now that surprised my

> husband. I told him if something happens to me I can't leave my kids to get

> a job after being home with them for 16 yrs. It would crush them. We will

> see I haven't taken that step yet, but he has always told me if and when I

> wanted to go to college he would let me. 4 yrs. ago I never would have

> dreamed I could do that after being so sick for so long with this disease,

> but that is also a plus that came out of joining this group.

That's so wonderful! It's inspiring that you are getting to the point of

having that much energy and motivation. I hope it works out that you can

find the time.

>

> Debbie R.

>

> Who has decided you can let this disease consume you or you can fight this

> disease with all you have. We are the only ones who can control our health

> by our choices.

>

>>

>> Reply-To: graves_support

>> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:36:51 -0800

>> To: <graves_support >

>> Subject: Re: progesterone and bone loss

>>

>> Jody,

>>

>> As I've been thinking and discussing about the hormone replacement lately,

>> here are a few other thoughts: In Chinese medicine, the time of menopause is

>> seen as a wonderful " second awakening " in women; that after all the

>> childbearing, menstruation and hormonal upheaval is over, women can finally

>> concentrate on self-enrichment, a career, etc. They believe that replacing

>> hormones unnecessarily prolongs the onset of this wonderful new age.

>>

>> I have taken my Chinese herbs for peri-menopausal symptoms for years now,

>> and while I've had a few hot-flash periods in my life, I've not suffered

>> from them for long. Also my friend Jackie, who because of developing a large

>> tumor on her liver (which was successfully removed) stopped her hormone

>> replacement (she's nearing 60), found that all the hot flashes she'd avoided

>> came at once when she quit! She said that it seemed that the hormones put it

>> off, but didn't do a thing to stop them in the long run.

>>

>> One thing I did was have my doc order the bone density scan, just to quell

>> my uneasiness about the potential for having both GD and menopause affect my

>> bones--and it came back completely normal. So, I don't have that worry

>> anymore. I am enjoying menopause (since August so far w/o a period) and

>> feeling wonderful without the " monthly migraine " I had, as well.

>>

>> Anyway, I wonder did you ever get in to see that acupuncturist? Herbs for

>> hot flashes do work!

>>

>> Terry

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

> of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:06:26 -0500

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: progesterone and bone loss

>

> Hi Terry,

> I welcome menopause also, I feel I have earned it :-)

>

> I only use the progesterone cream when the hot flashes come fast and furious

> for days on end. That doesn't happen too often. I don't use the

> progesterone cream daily and sometimes go for months without using it, but

> have it if needed.

I tried replacement hormone pills when the migraines got so bad I couldn't

function, to see if they'd help. I had a cluster that lasted 3 months a year

and a half ago. The hormones did short-circuit it, but then I had a period

non-stop for a month. My new doc says the old doc mis-prescribed. I think

you HAVE to do what works for you, at a certain point--seems like the cream

is the lesser of the evils.

>

> Last year I had only 3 periods. This year I have had 1 and 1 day of

> spotting in Feb. I just want it over with. It is interesting what your

> friend said about having all of the symptoms just being postponed. I

> wondered if that would happen. I get so frustrated with these movie stars

> who tout HRT replacement and how good they feel with it, how it is saving

> them from osteo...they do not say what the great risks are and it ticks me

> off. And the one actress <the blonde woman> is a very health conscious

> woman from what I have read...I can't remember her name at the moment. It

> surprises me she does the commercials...but I really doubt highly that she

> is actually on this junk!

I know a lot of women who believe strongly in taking replacement hormones.

My friend who got the tumor believed, too. Now she's rethinking everything.

When we're bombarded with all that info all the time, it starts to seem like

taking all this stuff is the norm. My GP told me that almost all his

patients my age are on replacement hormones and osteo drugs. He was

surprised that I wouldn't take them--and even more surprised that my bone

density came back normal.

>

> I haven't seen the acupuncturist yet, though my sister-in-law has seen him

> to quit smoking and so far so good. I am doing the chiropractor right now

> for my gall bladder. It was so bad last week I thought I would be going to

> the ER and getting it pulled...something I do not want to do! My

> adjustments for it have helped tremendously. Have 3 more this week and that

> should take care of that for quite a while. It is my own fault for letting

> it go so long, had I gone as soon as I first felt it acting up, 2 treatments

> and I wouldn't have had to go for at least a year. This adjustment has been

> working for me for 16 years now.

I'm not sure I understand how the adjustment work for gallbladder, but I'm

glad to know they do.

>

> Hope you had a wonderful time away, even though it was short...and I am

> sorry to hear about your stomach problems. I have heard about a bug here

> that is going around and around, and each time one gets it, it is worse than

> the last time. My daughter and her husband both had it, he 2 times, she 3.

> It is gone now for a month with them.

>

Our time away was great although way too short. I am trying to convince Bart

that we should look for a little patch of land somewhere out of town (I love

it up in northern Sonoma county, but it's getting trendy and expensive). I

miss the country, although I have a wee bit of a garden here and our

neighborhood is fairly suburban. As for the stomach thing, I bet mine is the

same as theirs. It's truly awful. I have had a fever and horrible abdominal

pain with it, and an absolute lack of energy. And then of course a headache,

my body's response to everything. But, I'm beginning to get a bit of energy

back, and my head is to the point where I can look at the screen again.

Almost all I've done the last 24 hours is sleep.

Terry

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list does not have the endorsement

> of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Terry and Jody-

I don't know how it'll happen when the time comes but right now I think

hormone replacement therapy is what I'd choose for menopause. Not because

I'd hate the hot flashes (although I would hate them) but because of what

happens afterwards.

There is no question that it's possible that HRT is detrimental to health

until it's figured out what drugs and ratios are optimal. But thinking that

nature is best isn't good either. At least not in the case of what's

optimal for folks that are elderly.

Most mammals are able to reproduce well into their " elderly " years. And

once they can't, they die soon after. We are not exactly like that but

after we can't reproduce anymore we tend to suffer a severe decline in both

mental and physical abilities. With men, there isn't as severe a decline

(they aren't as fertile but it's a more gradual decline) and although they

tend to die sooner than women, they don't seem to suffer as drastic a change

as women do. So if I feel better on HRT when the time comes, I'll continue

it. If not, I'll stop. I don't want to be like either of my grandmothers

or my mother-in-law who refused it at the outset because they didn't want to

take any pills and felt that nature was best. They've all suffered. It

might be best in most cases but once your through reproducing, there's

nothing at all that selects for a situation that would be optimal for

elderly women. Nature is blind to us once we're through reproducing.

Take care,

>

>

> >

> > Reply-To: graves_support

> > Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:06:26 -0500

> > To: graves_support

> > Subject: Re: progesterone and bone loss

> >

> > Hi Terry,

> > I welcome menopause also, I feel I have earned it :-)

> >

> > I only use the progesterone cream when the hot flashes come fast and

furious

> > for days on end. That doesn't happen too often. I don't use the

> > progesterone cream daily and sometimes go for months without using it,

but

> > have it if needed.

>

> I tried replacement hormone pills when the migraines got so bad I couldn't

> function, to see if they'd help. I had a cluster that lasted 3 months a

year

> and a half ago. The hormones did short-circuit it, but then I had a period

> non-stop for a month. My new doc says the old doc mis-prescribed. I think

> you HAVE to do what works for you, at a certain point--seems like the

cream

> is the lesser of the evils.

> >

> > Last year I had only 3 periods. This year I have had 1 and 1 day of

> > spotting in Feb. I just want it over with. It is interesting what your

> > friend said about having all of the symptoms just being postponed. I

> > wondered if that would happen. I get so frustrated with these movie

stars

> > who tout HRT replacement and how good they feel with it, how it is

saving

> > them from osteo...they do not say what the great risks are and it ticks

me

> > off. And the one actress <the blonde woman> is a very health conscious

> > woman from what I have read...I can't remember her name at the moment.

It

> > surprises me she does the commercials...but I really doubt highly that

she

> > is actually on this junk!

>

> I know a lot of women who believe strongly in taking replacement hormones.

> My friend who got the tumor believed, too. Now she's rethinking

everything.

> When we're bombarded with all that info all the time, it starts to seem

like

> taking all this stuff is the norm. My GP told me that almost all his

> patients my age are on replacement hormones and osteo drugs. He was

> surprised that I wouldn't take them--and even more surprised that my bone

> density came back normal.

> >

> > I haven't seen the acupuncturist yet, though my sister-in-law has seen

him

> > to quit smoking and so far so good. I am doing the chiropractor right

now

> > for my gall bladder. It was so bad last week I thought I would be going

to

> > the ER and getting it pulled...something I do not want to do! My

> > adjustments for it have helped tremendously. Have 3 more this week and

that

> > should take care of that for quite a while. It is my own fault for

letting

> > it go so long, had I gone as soon as I first felt it acting up, 2

treatments

> > and I wouldn't have had to go for at least a year. This adjustment has

been

> > working for me for 16 years now.

>

> I'm not sure I understand how the adjustment work for gallbladder, but I'm

> glad to know they do.

> >

> > Hope you had a wonderful time away, even though it was short...and I am

> > sorry to hear about your stomach problems. I have heard about a bug

here

> > that is going around and around, and each time one gets it, it is worse

than

> > the last time. My daughter and her husband both had it, he 2 times, she

3.

> > It is gone now for a month with them.

> >

> Our time away was great although way too short. I am trying to convince

Bart

> that we should look for a little patch of land somewhere out of town (I

love

> it up in northern Sonoma county, but it's getting trendy and expensive). I

> miss the country, although I have a wee bit of a garden here and our

> neighborhood is fairly suburban. As for the stomach thing, I bet mine is

the

> same as theirs. It's truly awful. I have had a fever and horrible

abdominal

> pain with it, and an absolute lack of energy. And then of course a

headache,

> my body's response to everything. But, I'm beginning to get a bit of

energy

> back, and my head is to the point where I can look at the screen again.

> Almost all I've done the last 24 hours is sleep.

>

> Terry

[Guest guest]

Hi:

I enjoy not having my periods while I was nursing my

children. I understand that women who've breastfed their

babies have lower chance of getting breast cancer. That

sounds good to me. I have no family history of breast

cancer anyway. Now that I have my periods, my ovulations

lasted about 5 days and I'm very cranky during those times.

It's the same feeling as the severals leading up to the time

of the onstart of my period.

Riley wrote:

> Hi Terry and Jody,

>

> This is interesting for me, since my peri-menopause

> started less than a year

> ago. Of course, my ob/gyn don't believe in me taking any

> kind of hormones,

> birth control, etc. He says that the hormone thing with

> the graves disease

> is enough and he wouldn't recommmend it for me.

>

> My aunt that was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2000 was

> on hormone

> replacement. They told her she would have gotten the

> breast cancer either

> way but the hormone replacement made the tumor grow, so it

> showed up sooner.

> She had had mammograms done faithfully every year and when

> they looked back

> at them the tumor had been there for 4-6 yrs. (can't

> remember exactly) but

> the replacement therapy made the tumor grow faster. After

> being off the

> hormone replacement for a short time her tumor went from

> the size of a plum

> to the size of a grape. She also told me that her

> peri-menopause started at

> 34 yrs. old. t They started her on replacement therapy and

> in her early 50's

> was still having periods and she was tired of it at that

> time. She isn't 60

> yet, maybe this year. Anyways after stopping the hormone

> replacement

> because of breast cancer, she said she had very few hot

> flashes and before

> long the periods stopped.

>

> I called her this morning to go over these things with her

> but she didn't

> have time to answer all questions as she was going away

> with her husband

> this afternoon. But, I was curious after reading this

> here because my great

> aunt has been on hormone replacement for quite a few

> years. She was 76

> this past Dec. and she is still going through horrible hot

> flashes. All I

> could think was man I don't want this. My great aunt does

> have a bad case

> of osteoporosis but she has been on thyroid replacement

> for 40-50 yrs. for

> hypothyroid and never took mag/cal.

>

> For me I did buy the cream but I've had no hot flashes,

> once or maybe twice

> I got real warm. Nothing like my mother ever had. Which

> by the way my

> mother never took the hormone replacement she didn't

> believe in it. My

> symptoms have basically been the chills, being tired and I

> get crampy not

> during my periods sometimes. I do get very tired.

> My younger sister has the tiredness and the hot flashes

> (not often). She is

> using the cream, when I bought mine it was buy one get one

> free and I shared

> with her. I have the Femgest natural cream for women

> manufactured by Home

> Health in Holbrook, New York. It suggests on the box to

> use it with aloe

> vera gel and grapefruit extract for those times when you

> want a supportive,

> soothing cream that harmonizes with your unique nature.

>

> Now I am still having my periods, they've been a little

> off. I went from

> the 25th of the month to the 15th since December 2001.

> But they are getting

> shorter. The first 24-36 hrs. is heavy by the third day

> it is overwith.

> Does that mean shortly I will be stopping or skipping

> months? I've also

> noticed that my ovulation is changing, which there were

> times it would last

> 4 or 5 days and it is now only lasting 1 or 2 days. But I

> have noticed the

> migraines are getting worse, for a while they slowed

> down. I do get

> concerned about them, because during my bad hyper period I

> had cluster

> headaches for days or weeks unend. The longest lasted 6

> wks.

>

>

> My aunt is very close to us girls, she knows our mother

> died before we

> could talk to her about these things. She is also the one

> that talked to me

> when we were thinking about having Chuck get fixed. At

> the time we

> discussed it here too. After research we decided against

> it.

>

> Even though I haven't posted much I am trying to get

> caught up with emails

> and I do read the graves support posts. There is so much

> information that I

> wish I had the time to research daily and somedays it

> boggles my mind. My

> husband doesn't complain when I am on the computer because

> he knows I am

> learning and he loves for me to fill him in on the

> information. Where some

> get mad he don't he is glad I am interested in this stuff,

> because he knows

> we have three children that could someday need our help

> with this disease or

> maybe a friend. In fact with him being laid off this

> winter he brings me a

> cup of coffee or makes me tea when I am reading. I don't

> even ask. When the

> kids are at play practice, firehall or youth group etc.

> that is my computer

> time. I've even been thinking of taking a class over the

> internet and

> getting a degree from the University of Arizona, now that

> surprised my

> husband. I told him if something happens to me I can't

> leave my kids to get

> a job after being home with them for 16 yrs. It would

> crush them. We will

> see I haven't taken that step yet, but he has always told

> me if and when I

> wanted to go to college he would let me. 4 yrs. ago I

> never would have

> dreamed I could do that after being so sick for so long

> with this disease,

> but that is also a plus that came out of joining this

> group.

>

> Debbie R.

>

> Who has decided you can let this disease consume you or

> you can fight this

> disease with all you have. We are the only ones who can

> control our health

> by our choices.

>

> >

> > Reply-To: graves_support

> > Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:36:51 -0800

> > To: <graves_support >

> > Subject: Re: progesterone and bone loss

>

> >

> > Jody,

> >

> > As I've been thinking and discussing about the hormone

> replacement lately,

> > here are a few other thoughts: In Chinese medicine, the

> time of menopause is

> > seen as a wonderful " second awakening " in women; that

> after all the

> > childbearing, menstruation and hormonal upheaval is

> over, women can finally

> > concentrate on self-enrichment, a career, etc. They

> believe that replacing

> > hormones unnecessarily prolongs the onset of this

> wonderful new age.

> >

> > I have taken my Chinese herbs for peri-menopausal

> symptoms for years now,

> > and while I've had a few hot-flash periods in my life,

> I've not suffered

> > from them for long. Also my friend Jackie, who because

> of developing a large

> > tumor on her liver (which was successfully removed)

> stopped her hormone

> > replacement (she's nearing 60), found that all the hot

> flashes she'd avoided

> > came at once when she quit! She said that it seemed that

> the hormones put it

> > off, but didn't do a thing to stop them in the long run.

>

> >

> > One thing I did was have my doc order the bone density

> scan, just to quell

> > my uneasiness about the potential for having both GD and

> menopause affect my

> > bones--and it came back completely normal. So, I don't

> have that worry

> > anymore. I am enjoying menopause (since August so far

> w/o a period) and

> > feeling wonderful without the " monthly migraine " I had,

> as well.

> >

> > Anyway, I wonder did you ever get in to see that

> acupuncturist? Herbs for

> > hot flashes do work!

> >

> > Terry

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Terry

Just thought I'd share with you a recent evening I went to on Menopause.

There were three doctors (one male doctor well up on 'womens issues',

Jessie Haoung Japanese and also very studied in Menopause and an English

lady doctor)and one chemist presenting the evening.

From the evening the things that were the main issues are as follows:

* 5 out of 20 women will get 'hot flushes' for the rest of their lives no

matter what cause of action they take

* hormone replacement HRT is not effective until you have taken it for 'at

least' 5 years, 10 years noticing good work, 15 years better.

* the small increase in breast cancer or heart disease is very teeny tiny

* If you are at risk of heart disease or breast cancer that is something

you would have to work closely with your doctor and that HRT can still help

you if you monitor it.

* Bone density is the most important issue for menopause. More women die

from broken hips etc due to the loss of bone density (they give up the will

once they find they can't do as before)

* Asian and Japanese women don't suffer so badly with menopause due to

their high intake of soy, however Japanese women have a high incident of

stomach cancer due to a diet high in fish and raw fish

* you need a certain bacteria in the stomach for soy to be benefical and

not everyone has that

* you need to be on HRT even if you don't have the symptoms of menopause

due to the loss of bone density and hormones

* there is no proven 'natural' remedy for menopause

They have also a hospital in Sydney that are working all the time with

'menopause' and they have also proven these facts to be true.

They had all the statistics using 'red clover' and a whole bunch of other

stuff, and in studies 'None' of it proved to improve the symptoms or

actually help. They did discuss the 'mind' thing, where if you think its

doing you good, then that was benefical.

Sue

Mollymook, Australia

At 10:36 PM 23/03/2002 -0800, you wrote:

> Jody,

>

> As I've been thinking and discussing about the hormone replac

>emenlately,

> here are a few other thoughts: In Chinese medicine, the time

>of menopause is

> " " in women; that after all the

> childbearing,

>menstruation and hormonal upheaval is over, women can finally

> concentrate

>on self-enrichment, a career, etc. They believe that replacing

> hormones

>unnecessarily prolongs the onset of this wonderful new age.

>

> I have

>taken my Chinese herbs for peri-menopausal symptoms for years now,

> and

>while I've had a few hot-flash periods in my life, I've not suffered

> from

>them for long. Also my friend Jackie, who because of developing a large

> tumor on her liver (which was successfully removed) stopped her hormone

> replacement (she's nearing 60), found that all the hot flashes she'd avoided

> came at once when she quit! She said that it seemed that the hormones put it

> off, but didn't do a thing to stop them in the long run.

>

> One thing I did was have my doc order the bone density scan, just to quell

> my uneasiness about the potential for having both GD and menopause affect my

> bones--and it came back completely normal. So, I don't have that worry

> anymore. I am enjoying menopause (since August so far w/o a period) and

> " " I had, as well.

>

> Anyway, I wonder did you ever get in to see that acupuncturist? Herbs for

> hot flashes do work!

>

> Terry