Re: Entrance Exam for EMS Courses

[Guest guest]

So, Louis, what was the purpose of the test you had to take? What good was

it?

GG

>

> I was required to take an " Entrance Exam " into a paramedic course that I 

> was

> trying to get into. It was pretty much medical terminology at just above 

> what I'd consider a Basic level and then a WHOLE bunch of metrics and math 

> calculations. I aced it but then they used the " Good Old Boy " system anyway

> but 

> you had to pass the test to be in that level.

>

> Louis N.  Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

>   (Home Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (TEEX  Office)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in  this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

> the

> author alone. I in no way  ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way  whatsoever involved or associated with

> unless I

> specifically state that I am  doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

> for its

> stated recipient and may  contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly  prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

> the

> original  author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

wegandy1938@... wrote:

> Berry Ingram wrote that the site visitors recommended use

> of a " competency exam " as a means of identifying qualified

> students for entrance into an EMS program.

>

> Great. Now, can anybody identify such an exam that has ANY

> proven value?

Depends on what you're looking for as the qualifying bar, doesn't it? If

you're looking for a predictive prequalification test to identify those who

might do well in EMS I think you are correct that nothing exists nor is

likely to be developed. However, if your plan is to eliminate those who will

certainly *not* do well I think tests *do* exist.

> Now, TASP will show us who can read, write, spell and do

> arithmetic, and those skills are important. So if we're talking

> about verifying basic skills, I can relate to that.

I feel the TASP has some value and this or something like it is (I think)

all that is being suggested. For too long our programs have accepted all

comers and have graduated some questionable suspects (Can I say that in

public?). Heck, until recently a person could enter an EMS education program

and become a Paramedic without so much as a high school diploma or GED

(perhaps we need to be able to prove the efficacy of high school?). This

failure of the rules is perhaps partially responsible for the sad state of

the profession today. But even so, as you point out later, a high school

diploma is no guarantee the candidate is capable of even elementary math.

Gene, you've railed on this forum regarding poor spelling, grammar and

sentence structure seen on PCR's. This is but one example of where a

prequalification exam might be of value in the effort to elevate our

professional status. If the candidate cannot spell or do basic math I don't

see how we can hammer him into much of a medic in the woefully short time

allowed in a traditional EMT class.

> But insofar as predicting who will do well in EMS, I don't know

> of a single test that has predictive value.

Do we know for a fact the site visitors were recommending such a predictive

test, or were they simply suggesting some basic skills test? Were they even

recommending a test or simply verification of some background and skills

abilities? Berry?

> although I had to become a 3rd grade math teacher in order to

> get some of them through drug calculations, thanks to the abject

> failure of our public education system to teach students the basic

> skills necessary to function in life.

Sad but true, and a true shame. Also an example of my earlier comment. Do we

have the time to make this effort or should we weed these folks out with

some kind of prequalification? How do we justify allowing these people to

enter our programs and take your time away from more qualified students?

Shouldn't they be looking for remediation *prior* to applying for EMT

school?

> But success on the TASP test told me very little.

Did it not tell you that these students could or could not perform basic

math and English skills?

> So, my caveat to all, including DSHS site visitors, is: be wary

> of the efficacy of qualifying examinations. We tout evidence

> based medicine. Perhaps we ought to also tout evidence based

> qualifying exams.

Indeed we must beware of anything in our profession without proven

efficacy...... including exams..... although there is much in EMS that is

quoted as law but has no foundation in research. Perhaps this is an

opportunity for all those under worked educators with time on their hands

and money to spare. I wonder if someone could design a research project

capable of testing the tests. The National Registry might be a good one to

start with.

> Always the counterpointer,

> Gene G.

The counter-counterpointer,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" The vanity of teaching doth oft tempt a man to forget that he is a

blockhead. "

~~ Saville, Marquis of Halifax ~~

Don't Miss EMStock

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

wegandy1938@... wrote:

> Berry Ingram wrote that the site visitors recommended use

> of a " competency exam " as a means of identifying qualified

> students for entrance into an EMS program.

>

> Great. Now, can anybody identify such an exam that has ANY

> proven value?

Depends on what you're looking for as the qualifying bar, doesn't it? If

you're looking for a predictive prequalification test to identify those who

might do well in EMS I think you are correct that nothing exists nor is

likely to be developed. However, if your plan is to eliminate those who will

certainly *not* do well I think tests *do* exist.

> Now, TASP will show us who can read, write, spell and do

> arithmetic, and those skills are important. So if we're talking

> about verifying basic skills, I can relate to that.

I feel the TASP has some value and this or something like it is (I think)

all that is being suggested. For too long our programs have accepted all

comers and have graduated some questionable suspects (Can I say that in

public?). Heck, until recently a person could enter an EMS education program

and become a Paramedic without so much as a high school diploma or GED

(perhaps we need to be able to prove the efficacy of high school?). This

failure of the rules is perhaps partially responsible for the sad state of

the profession today. But even so, as you point out later, a high school

diploma is no guarantee the candidate is capable of even elementary math.

Gene, you've railed on this forum regarding poor spelling, grammar and

sentence structure seen on PCR's. This is but one example of where a

prequalification exam might be of value in the effort to elevate our

professional status. If the candidate cannot spell or do basic math I don't

see how we can hammer him into much of a medic in the woefully short time

allowed in a traditional EMT class.

> But insofar as predicting who will do well in EMS, I don't know

> of a single test that has predictive value.

Do we know for a fact the site visitors were recommending such a predictive

test, or were they simply suggesting some basic skills test? Were they even

recommending a test or simply verification of some background and skills

abilities? Berry?

> although I had to become a 3rd grade math teacher in order to

> get some of them through drug calculations, thanks to the abject

> failure of our public education system to teach students the basic

> skills necessary to function in life.

Sad but true, and a true shame. Also an example of my earlier comment. Do we

have the time to make this effort or should we weed these folks out with

some kind of prequalification? How do we justify allowing these people to

enter our programs and take your time away from more qualified students?

Shouldn't they be looking for remediation *prior* to applying for EMT

school?

> But success on the TASP test told me very little.

Did it not tell you that these students could or could not perform basic

math and English skills?

> So, my caveat to all, including DSHS site visitors, is: be wary

> of the efficacy of qualifying examinations. We tout evidence

> based medicine. Perhaps we ought to also tout evidence based

> qualifying exams.

Indeed we must beware of anything in our profession without proven

efficacy...... including exams..... although there is much in EMS that is

quoted as law but has no foundation in research. Perhaps this is an

opportunity for all those under worked educators with time on their hands

and money to spare. I wonder if someone could design a research project

capable of testing the tests. The National Registry might be a good one to

start with.

> Always the counterpointer,

> Gene G.

The counter-counterpointer,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" The vanity of teaching doth oft tempt a man to forget that he is a

blockhead. "

~~ Saville, Marquis of Halifax ~~

Don't Miss EMStock

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

wegandy1938@... wrote:

> Berry Ingram wrote that the site visitors recommended use

> of a " competency exam " as a means of identifying qualified

> students for entrance into an EMS program.

>

> Great. Now, can anybody identify such an exam that has ANY

> proven value?

Depends on what you're looking for as the qualifying bar, doesn't it? If

you're looking for a predictive prequalification test to identify those who

might do well in EMS I think you are correct that nothing exists nor is

likely to be developed. However, if your plan is to eliminate those who will

certainly *not* do well I think tests *do* exist.

> Now, TASP will show us who can read, write, spell and do

> arithmetic, and those skills are important. So if we're talking

> about verifying basic skills, I can relate to that.

I feel the TASP has some value and this or something like it is (I think)

all that is being suggested. For too long our programs have accepted all

comers and have graduated some questionable suspects (Can I say that in

public?). Heck, until recently a person could enter an EMS education program

and become a Paramedic without so much as a high school diploma or GED

(perhaps we need to be able to prove the efficacy of high school?). This

failure of the rules is perhaps partially responsible for the sad state of

the profession today. But even so, as you point out later, a high school

diploma is no guarantee the candidate is capable of even elementary math.

Gene, you've railed on this forum regarding poor spelling, grammar and

sentence structure seen on PCR's. This is but one example of where a

prequalification exam might be of value in the effort to elevate our

professional status. If the candidate cannot spell or do basic math I don't

see how we can hammer him into much of a medic in the woefully short time

allowed in a traditional EMT class.

> But insofar as predicting who will do well in EMS, I don't know

> of a single test that has predictive value.

Do we know for a fact the site visitors were recommending such a predictive

test, or were they simply suggesting some basic skills test? Were they even

recommending a test or simply verification of some background and skills

abilities? Berry?

> although I had to become a 3rd grade math teacher in order to

> get some of them through drug calculations, thanks to the abject

> failure of our public education system to teach students the basic

> skills necessary to function in life.

Sad but true, and a true shame. Also an example of my earlier comment. Do we

have the time to make this effort or should we weed these folks out with

some kind of prequalification? How do we justify allowing these people to

enter our programs and take your time away from more qualified students?

Shouldn't they be looking for remediation *prior* to applying for EMT

school?

> But success on the TASP test told me very little.

Did it not tell you that these students could or could not perform basic

math and English skills?

> So, my caveat to all, including DSHS site visitors, is: be wary

> of the efficacy of qualifying examinations. We tout evidence

> based medicine. Perhaps we ought to also tout evidence based

> qualifying exams.

Indeed we must beware of anything in our profession without proven

efficacy...... including exams..... although there is much in EMS that is

quoted as law but has no foundation in research. Perhaps this is an

opportunity for all those under worked educators with time on their hands

and money to spare. I wonder if someone could design a research project

capable of testing the tests. The National Registry might be a good one to

start with.

> Always the counterpointer,

> Gene G.

The counter-counterpointer,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" The vanity of teaching doth oft tempt a man to forget that he is a

blockhead. "

~~ Saville, Marquis of Halifax ~~

Don't Miss EMStock

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

In North Carolina, you have to pass the High School Proficiency test before

undertaking any EMS school (whether community or college-based). Paramedic

students have to take an anatomy and physiology test and a test of basic

skills (reading/writing/math) prior to matriculation. These are all a

legislative mandate and have been in effect for several years now.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

" I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. "

Don't miss EMStock 2005 (http://www.EMStock.com)

RE: Entrance Exam for EMS Courses

wegandy1938@... wrote:

> Berry Ingram wrote that the site visitors recommended use of a

> " competency exam " as a means of identifying qualified students for

> entrance into an EMS program.

>

> Great. Now, can anybody identify such an exam that has ANY

> proven value?

Depends on what you're looking for as the qualifying bar, doesn't it? If

you're looking for a predictive prequalification test to identify those who

might do well in EMS I think you are correct that nothing exists nor is

likely to be developed. However, if your plan is to eliminate those who will

certainly *not* do well I think tests *do* exist.

> Now, TASP will show us who can read, write, spell and do arithmetic,

> and those skills are important. So if we're talking about verifying

> basic skills, I can relate to that.

I feel the TASP has some value and this or something like it is (I think)

all that is being suggested. For too long our programs have accepted all

comers and have graduated some questionable suspects (Can I say that in

public?). Heck, until recently a person could enter an EMS education program

and become a Paramedic without so much as a high school diploma or GED

(perhaps we need to be able to prove the efficacy of high school?). This

failure of the rules is perhaps partially responsible for the sad state of

the profession today. But even so, as you point out later, a high school

diploma is no guarantee the candidate is capable of even elementary math.

Gene, you've railed on this forum regarding poor spelling, grammar and

sentence structure seen on PCR's. This is but one example of where a

prequalification exam might be of value in the effort to elevate our

professional status. If the candidate cannot spell or do basic math I don't

see how we can hammer him into much of a medic in the woefully short time

allowed in a traditional EMT class.

> But insofar as predicting who will do well in EMS, I don't know of a

> single test that has predictive value.

Do we know for a fact the site visitors were recommending such a predictive

test, or were they simply suggesting some basic skills test? Were they even

recommending a test or simply verification of some background and skills

abilities? Berry?

> although I had to become a 3rd grade math teacher in order to get some

> of them through drug calculations, thanks to the abject failure of our

> public education system to teach students the basic skills necessary

> to function in life.

Sad but true, and a true shame. Also an example of my earlier comment. Do we

have the time to make this effort or should we weed these folks out with

some kind of prequalification? How do we justify allowing these people to

enter our programs and take your time away from more qualified students?

Shouldn't they be looking for remediation *prior* to applying for EMT

school?

> But success on the TASP test told me very little.

Did it not tell you that these students could or could not perform basic

math and English skills?

> So, my caveat to all, including DSHS site visitors, is: be wary

> of the efficacy of qualifying examinations. We tout evidence

> based medicine. Perhaps we ought to also tout evidence based

> qualifying exams.

Indeed we must beware of anything in our profession without proven

efficacy...... including exams..... although there is much in EMS that is

quoted as law but has no foundation in research. Perhaps this is an

opportunity for all those under worked educators with time on their hands

and money to spare. I wonder if someone could design a research project

capable of testing the tests. The National Registry might be a good one to

start with.

> Always the counterpointer,

> Gene G.

The counter-counterpointer,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" The vanity of teaching doth oft tempt a man to forget that he is a

blockhead. "

~~ Saville, Marquis of Halifax ~~

Don't Miss EMStock

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

In North Carolina, you have to pass the High School Proficiency test before

undertaking any EMS school (whether community or college-based). Paramedic

students have to take an anatomy and physiology test and a test of basic

skills (reading/writing/math) prior to matriculation. These are all a

legislative mandate and have been in effect for several years now.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

" I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. "

Don't miss EMStock 2005 (http://www.EMStock.com)

RE: Entrance Exam for EMS Courses

wegandy1938@... wrote:

> Berry Ingram wrote that the site visitors recommended use of a

> " competency exam " as a means of identifying qualified students for

> entrance into an EMS program.

>

> Great. Now, can anybody identify such an exam that has ANY

> proven value?

Depends on what you're looking for as the qualifying bar, doesn't it? If

you're looking for a predictive prequalification test to identify those who

might do well in EMS I think you are correct that nothing exists nor is

likely to be developed. However, if your plan is to eliminate those who will

certainly *not* do well I think tests *do* exist.

> Now, TASP will show us who can read, write, spell and do arithmetic,

> and those skills are important. So if we're talking about verifying

> basic skills, I can relate to that.

I feel the TASP has some value and this or something like it is (I think)

all that is being suggested. For too long our programs have accepted all

comers and have graduated some questionable suspects (Can I say that in

public?). Heck, until recently a person could enter an EMS education program

and become a Paramedic without so much as a high school diploma or GED

(perhaps we need to be able to prove the efficacy of high school?). This

failure of the rules is perhaps partially responsible for the sad state of

the profession today. But even so, as you point out later, a high school

diploma is no guarantee the candidate is capable of even elementary math.

Gene, you've railed on this forum regarding poor spelling, grammar and

sentence structure seen on PCR's. This is but one example of where a

prequalification exam might be of value in the effort to elevate our

professional status. If the candidate cannot spell or do basic math I don't

see how we can hammer him into much of a medic in the woefully short time

allowed in a traditional EMT class.

> But insofar as predicting who will do well in EMS, I don't know of a

> single test that has predictive value.

Do we know for a fact the site visitors were recommending such a predictive

test, or were they simply suggesting some basic skills test? Were they even

recommending a test or simply verification of some background and skills

abilities? Berry?

> although I had to become a 3rd grade math teacher in order to get some

> of them through drug calculations, thanks to the abject failure of our

> public education system to teach students the basic skills necessary

> to function in life.

Sad but true, and a true shame. Also an example of my earlier comment. Do we

have the time to make this effort or should we weed these folks out with

some kind of prequalification? How do we justify allowing these people to

enter our programs and take your time away from more qualified students?

Shouldn't they be looking for remediation *prior* to applying for EMT

school?

> But success on the TASP test told me very little.

Did it not tell you that these students could or could not perform basic

math and English skills?

> So, my caveat to all, including DSHS site visitors, is: be wary

> of the efficacy of qualifying examinations. We tout evidence

> based medicine. Perhaps we ought to also tout evidence based

> qualifying exams.

Indeed we must beware of anything in our profession without proven

efficacy...... including exams..... although there is much in EMS that is

quoted as law but has no foundation in research. Perhaps this is an

opportunity for all those under worked educators with time on their hands

and money to spare. I wonder if someone could design a research project

capable of testing the tests. The National Registry might be a good one to

start with.

> Always the counterpointer,

> Gene G.

The counter-counterpointer,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" The vanity of teaching doth oft tempt a man to forget that he is a

blockhead. "

~~ Saville, Marquis of Halifax ~~

Don't Miss EMStock

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

In North Carolina, you have to pass the High School Proficiency test before

undertaking any EMS school (whether community or college-based). Paramedic

students have to take an anatomy and physiology test and a test of basic

skills (reading/writing/math) prior to matriculation. These are all a

legislative mandate and have been in effect for several years now.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

" I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. "

Don't miss EMStock 2005 (http://www.EMStock.com)

RE: Entrance Exam for EMS Courses

wegandy1938@... wrote:

> Berry Ingram wrote that the site visitors recommended use of a

> " competency exam " as a means of identifying qualified students for

> entrance into an EMS program.

>

> Great. Now, can anybody identify such an exam that has ANY

> proven value?

Depends on what you're looking for as the qualifying bar, doesn't it? If

you're looking for a predictive prequalification test to identify those who

might do well in EMS I think you are correct that nothing exists nor is

likely to be developed. However, if your plan is to eliminate those who will

certainly *not* do well I think tests *do* exist.

> Now, TASP will show us who can read, write, spell and do arithmetic,

> and those skills are important. So if we're talking about verifying

> basic skills, I can relate to that.

I feel the TASP has some value and this or something like it is (I think)

all that is being suggested. For too long our programs have accepted all

comers and have graduated some questionable suspects (Can I say that in

public?). Heck, until recently a person could enter an EMS education program

and become a Paramedic without so much as a high school diploma or GED

(perhaps we need to be able to prove the efficacy of high school?). This

failure of the rules is perhaps partially responsible for the sad state of

the profession today. But even so, as you point out later, a high school

diploma is no guarantee the candidate is capable of even elementary math.

Gene, you've railed on this forum regarding poor spelling, grammar and

sentence structure seen on PCR's. This is but one example of where a

prequalification exam might be of value in the effort to elevate our

professional status. If the candidate cannot spell or do basic math I don't

see how we can hammer him into much of a medic in the woefully short time

allowed in a traditional EMT class.

> But insofar as predicting who will do well in EMS, I don't know of a

> single test that has predictive value.

Do we know for a fact the site visitors were recommending such a predictive

test, or were they simply suggesting some basic skills test? Were they even

recommending a test or simply verification of some background and skills

abilities? Berry?

> although I had to become a 3rd grade math teacher in order to get some

> of them through drug calculations, thanks to the abject failure of our

> public education system to teach students the basic skills necessary

> to function in life.

Sad but true, and a true shame. Also an example of my earlier comment. Do we

have the time to make this effort or should we weed these folks out with

some kind of prequalification? How do we justify allowing these people to

enter our programs and take your time away from more qualified students?

Shouldn't they be looking for remediation *prior* to applying for EMT

school?

> But success on the TASP test told me very little.

Did it not tell you that these students could or could not perform basic

math and English skills?

> So, my caveat to all, including DSHS site visitors, is: be wary

> of the efficacy of qualifying examinations. We tout evidence

> based medicine. Perhaps we ought to also tout evidence based

> qualifying exams.

Indeed we must beware of anything in our profession without proven

efficacy...... including exams..... although there is much in EMS that is

quoted as law but has no foundation in research. Perhaps this is an

opportunity for all those under worked educators with time on their hands

and money to spare. I wonder if someone could design a research project

capable of testing the tests. The National Registry might be a good one to

start with.

> Always the counterpointer,

> Gene G.

The counter-counterpointer,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" The vanity of teaching doth oft tempt a man to forget that he is a

blockhead. "

~~ Saville, Marquis of Halifax ~~

Don't Miss EMStock

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

From: D.E. (Donn)

Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 8:03 AM

To:

Subject: RE: Entrance Exam for EMS Courses

" Do we know for a fact the site visitors were recommending such a predictive

test, or were they simply suggesting some basic skills test? Were they even

recommending a test or simply verification of some background and skills

abilities? Berry? "

The recommendation was for an evaluation of simple skills (or maybe not so

simple) such as reading, writing, and basic math. I was questioning the

list in hopes of finding something that works without having to 'pad the

pockets' of the regulatory agencies.

Berry

[Guest guest]

From: D.E. (Donn)

Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 8:03 AM

To:

Subject: RE: Entrance Exam for EMS Courses

" Do we know for a fact the site visitors were recommending such a predictive

test, or were they simply suggesting some basic skills test? Were they even

recommending a test or simply verification of some background and skills

abilities? Berry? "

The recommendation was for an evaluation of simple skills (or maybe not so

simple) such as reading, writing, and basic math. I was questioning the

list in hopes of finding something that works without having to 'pad the

pockets' of the regulatory agencies.

Berry

[Guest guest]

Berry Ingram wrote:

> The recommendation was for an evaluation of simple skills

> (or maybe not so simple) such as reading, writing, and

> basic math. I was questioning the list in hopes of finding

> something that works without having to 'pad the pockets' of

> the regulatory agencies.

It seems every new suggestion or requirement sets us up for an onslaught of

new " business opportunities " and a chance for the entrepreneurs amongst us

to fleece the flock. Still, I see the need for some kind of

pre-qualification and applaud the intent of the site visitors. Hopefully you

are hear for someone with a good suggestion. It will be interesting to see

what kind of answers you get.

Regards,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" Part of the American myth is that people who are handed the skin of a

dead sheep at graduating time think that it will keep their minds alive

forever. "

~~ Mason Brown ~~

Don't Miss EMStock 2005

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

Berry Ingram wrote:

> The recommendation was for an evaluation of simple skills

> (or maybe not so simple) such as reading, writing, and

> basic math. I was questioning the list in hopes of finding

> something that works without having to 'pad the pockets' of

> the regulatory agencies.

It seems every new suggestion or requirement sets us up for an onslaught of

new " business opportunities " and a chance for the entrepreneurs amongst us

to fleece the flock. Still, I see the need for some kind of

pre-qualification and applaud the intent of the site visitors. Hopefully you

are hear for someone with a good suggestion. It will be interesting to see

what kind of answers you get.

Regards,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" Part of the American myth is that people who are handed the skin of a

dead sheep at graduating time think that it will keep their minds alive

forever. "

~~ Mason Brown ~~

Don't Miss EMStock 2005

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

Berry Ingram wrote:

> The recommendation was for an evaluation of simple skills

> (or maybe not so simple) such as reading, writing, and

> basic math. I was questioning the list in hopes of finding

> something that works without having to 'pad the pockets' of

> the regulatory agencies.

It seems every new suggestion or requirement sets us up for an onslaught of

new " business opportunities " and a chance for the entrepreneurs amongst us

to fleece the flock. Still, I see the need for some kind of

pre-qualification and applaud the intent of the site visitors. Hopefully you

are hear for someone with a good suggestion. It will be interesting to see

what kind of answers you get.

Regards,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" Part of the American myth is that people who are handed the skin of a

dead sheep at graduating time think that it will keep their minds alive

forever. "

~~ Mason Brown ~~

Don't Miss EMStock 2005

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence enough that the

holder possessed the simple skills of reading, writing, and basic math. What

happened?

GG

>

> Berry Ingram   wrote:

>

> > The recommendation was for an evaluation of simple skills

> > (or maybe not so  simple) such as reading, writing, and

> >  basic math.  I was questioning the list in hopes of finding

> > something that works without having to 'pad the pockets' of

> > the regulatory agencies. 

>

> It seems every new suggestion or requirement sets us up for an onslaught of

> new " business opportunities " and a chance for the entrepreneurs amongst us

> to fleece the flock. Still, I see the need for some kind of

> pre-qualification and applaud the intent of the site visitors. Hopefully you

> are hear for someone with a good suggestion. It will be interesting to see

> what kind of answers you get.

>

>

> Regards,

> Donn

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

>

>      " Part of the American myth is that people who are handed the skin of a

> dead sheep at graduating time think that it will keep their minds alive

> forever. "

>      ~~ Mason Brown ~~

>

> Don't Miss EMStock 2005

> www.EMStock.com

> May 20-22 2005

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence enough that the

holder possessed the simple skills of reading, writing, and basic math. What

happened?

GG

>

> Berry Ingram   wrote:

>

> > The recommendation was for an evaluation of simple skills

> > (or maybe not so  simple) such as reading, writing, and

> >  basic math.  I was questioning the list in hopes of finding

> > something that works without having to 'pad the pockets' of

> > the regulatory agencies. 

>

> It seems every new suggestion or requirement sets us up for an onslaught of

> new " business opportunities " and a chance for the entrepreneurs amongst us

> to fleece the flock. Still, I see the need for some kind of

> pre-qualification and applaud the intent of the site visitors. Hopefully you

> are hear for someone with a good suggestion. It will be interesting to see

> what kind of answers you get.

>

>

> Regards,

> Donn

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

>

>      " Part of the American myth is that people who are handed the skin of a

> dead sheep at graduating time think that it will keep their minds alive

> forever. "

>      ~~ Mason Brown ~~

>

> Don't Miss EMStock 2005

> www.EMStock.com

> May 20-22 2005

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gene, you and I are of the same generation, and it did mean something when

we earned them. It has been my observation over the years, both as a higher

ed administrator and as an EMS educator, that many students manage to get

that piece of paper without attaining the level of proficiency and knowledge

we would expect. As a result, we require our entering basic students to

take a reading level test. Only if they score below 9th grade level do we

advise them out. Between 9th and 12th grade levels we tell them they will

probably have some trouble with the material, but we let them try. Almost

without exception, those who read at less than the 12th grade level

struggle. Some pass, but many don't. Reading level doesn't tell us much

about their ability to express themselves in writing, however. I shudder at

the narratives they write.

Kay

Re: Entrance Exam for EMS Courses

There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence enough that the

holder possessed the simple skills of reading, writing, and basic math.

What

happened?

GG

>

> Berry Ingram wrote:

>

> > The recommendation was for an evaluation of simple skills

> > (or maybe not so simple) such as reading, writing, and

> > basic math. I was questioning the list in hopes of finding

> > something that works without having to 'pad the pockets' of

> > the regulatory agencies.

>

> It seems every new suggestion or requirement sets us up for an onslaught

of

> new " business opportunities " and a chance for the entrepreneurs amongst us

> to fleece the flock. Still, I see the need for some kind of

> pre-qualification and applaud the intent of the site visitors. Hopefully

you

> are hear for someone with a good suggestion. It will be interesting to see

> what kind of answers you get.

>

>

> Regards,

> Donn

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

>

> " Part of the American myth is that people who are handed the skin of

a

> dead sheep at graduating time think that it will keep their minds alive

> forever. "

> ~~ Mason Brown ~~

>

> Don't Miss EMStock 2005

> www.EMStock.com

> May 20-22 2005

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gene, you and I are of the same generation, and it did mean something when

we earned them. It has been my observation over the years, both as a higher

ed administrator and as an EMS educator, that many students manage to get

that piece of paper without attaining the level of proficiency and knowledge

we would expect. As a result, we require our entering basic students to

take a reading level test. Only if they score below 9th grade level do we

advise them out. Between 9th and 12th grade levels we tell them they will

probably have some trouble with the material, but we let them try. Almost

without exception, those who read at less than the 12th grade level

struggle. Some pass, but many don't. Reading level doesn't tell us much

about their ability to express themselves in writing, however. I shudder at

the narratives they write.

Kay

Re: Entrance Exam for EMS Courses

There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence enough that the

holder possessed the simple skills of reading, writing, and basic math.

What

happened?

GG

>

> Berry Ingram wrote:

>

> > The recommendation was for an evaluation of simple skills

> > (or maybe not so simple) such as reading, writing, and

> > basic math. I was questioning the list in hopes of finding

> > something that works without having to 'pad the pockets' of

> > the regulatory agencies.

>

> It seems every new suggestion or requirement sets us up for an onslaught

of

> new " business opportunities " and a chance for the entrepreneurs amongst us

> to fleece the flock. Still, I see the need for some kind of

> pre-qualification and applaud the intent of the site visitors. Hopefully

you

> are hear for someone with a good suggestion. It will be interesting to see

> what kind of answers you get.

>

>

> Regards,

> Donn

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

>

> " Part of the American myth is that people who are handed the skin of

a

> dead sheep at graduating time think that it will keep their minds alive

> forever. "

> ~~ Mason Brown ~~

>

> Don't Miss EMStock 2005

> www.EMStock.com

> May 20-22 2005

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gene, you and I are of the same generation, and it did mean something when

we earned them. It has been my observation over the years, both as a higher

ed administrator and as an EMS educator, that many students manage to get

that piece of paper without attaining the level of proficiency and knowledge

we would expect. As a result, we require our entering basic students to

take a reading level test. Only if they score below 9th grade level do we

advise them out. Between 9th and 12th grade levels we tell them they will

probably have some trouble with the material, but we let them try. Almost

without exception, those who read at less than the 12th grade level

struggle. Some pass, but many don't. Reading level doesn't tell us much

about their ability to express themselves in writing, however. I shudder at

the narratives they write.

Kay

Re: Entrance Exam for EMS Courses

There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence enough that the

holder possessed the simple skills of reading, writing, and basic math.

What

happened?

GG

>

> Berry Ingram wrote:

>

> > The recommendation was for an evaluation of simple skills

> > (or maybe not so simple) such as reading, writing, and

> > basic math. I was questioning the list in hopes of finding

> > something that works without having to 'pad the pockets' of

> > the regulatory agencies.

>

> It seems every new suggestion or requirement sets us up for an onslaught

of

> new " business opportunities " and a chance for the entrepreneurs amongst us

> to fleece the flock. Still, I see the need for some kind of

> pre-qualification and applaud the intent of the site visitors. Hopefully

you

> are hear for someone with a good suggestion. It will be interesting to see

> what kind of answers you get.

>

>

> Regards,

> Donn

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

>

> " Part of the American myth is that people who are handed the skin of

a

> dead sheep at graduating time think that it will keep their minds alive

> forever. "

> ~~ Mason Brown ~~

>

> Don't Miss EMStock 2005

> www.EMStock.com

> May 20-22 2005

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-- wegandy1938@... wrote:

There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence enough that the holder

possessed the simple skills of reading, writing, and basic math. What

happened?

Dr. Spock, Social promotions, and the coup de grace, the Department of

Education- another Federal boondoggle meant to 'help' us.

" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit

violence on those who would do us harm. " - Orwell.

Larry RN LP

[Guest guest]

-- wegandy1938@... wrote:

There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence enough that the holder

possessed the simple skills of reading, writing, and basic math. What

happened?

Dr. Spock, Social promotions, and the coup de grace, the Department of

Education- another Federal boondoggle meant to 'help' us.

" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit

violence on those who would do us harm. " - Orwell.

Larry RN LP

[Guest guest]

-- wegandy1938@... wrote:

There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence enough that the holder

possessed the simple skills of reading, writing, and basic math. What

happened?

Dr. Spock, Social promotions, and the coup de grace, the Department of

Education- another Federal boondoggle meant to 'help' us.

" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit

violence on those who would do us harm. " - Orwell.

Larry RN LP

[Guest guest]

wegandy1938@... wrote:

> There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence

> enough that the holder possessed the simple skills of

> reading, writing, and basic math. What happened?

Overpopulation happened. Apathy happened. Budgets happened. Taxes happened.

Football happened. Unions happened. Fiscal conservatives happened. Politics

happened. Etc.

Regards,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" Education seems to be in America the only commodity of which the

customer tries to get as little he can for his money. "

~~ Max Forman ~~

Don't Miss EMStock 2005

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

wegandy1938@... wrote:

> There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence

> enough that the holder possessed the simple skills of

> reading, writing, and basic math. What happened?

Overpopulation happened. Apathy happened. Budgets happened. Taxes happened.

Football happened. Unions happened. Fiscal conservatives happened. Politics

happened. Etc.

Regards,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" Education seems to be in America the only commodity of which the

customer tries to get as little he can for his money. "

~~ Max Forman ~~

Don't Miss EMStock 2005

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

wegandy1938@... wrote:

> There was a time when a high school diploma was evidence

> enough that the holder possessed the simple skills of

> reading, writing, and basic math. What happened?

Overpopulation happened. Apathy happened. Budgets happened. Taxes happened.

Football happened. Unions happened. Fiscal conservatives happened. Politics

happened. Etc.

Regards,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" Education seems to be in America the only commodity of which the

customer tries to get as little he can for his money. "

~~ Max Forman ~~

Don't Miss EMStock 2005

www.EMStock.com

May 20-22 2005

[Guest guest]

All of those things also existed way back in the

good old days.

Maxine Pate

---- Original message ----

Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:55:13 -0600

>

> Overpopulation happened. Apathy happened.

Budgets

> happened. Taxes happened.

> Football happened. Unions happened. Fiscal

> conservatives happened. Politics

> happened. Etc.

>

> Regards,

> Donn

[Guest guest]

All of those things also existed way back in the

good old days.

Maxine Pate

---- Original message ----

Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:55:13 -0600

>

> Overpopulation happened. Apathy happened.

Budgets

> happened. Taxes happened.

> Football happened. Unions happened. Fiscal

> conservatives happened. Politics

> happened. Etc.

>

> Regards,

> Donn