Various

[Guest guest]

Wow...a lot of activity since I last visited (60+ posts). Some

comments:

Pete (#27609)

> An AA friend of mine said that the culture of his home group said

that

> only 1 in a 1000 made it to his 10 yr abstinence. This was of

course

> proof of the power of the disease rather than the ineffectiveness

of

> AA.

Ya know, given the numbers I cited earlier (msg. 27597), and, given

steppers' belief in " one day at a time " (which necessarily entails

treating each day to some extent as a statistically independent

event)....well, 1 in 1000 over 10 years is actually a plausible

figure.

Don't you just love stuff like this? What they're really saying

is, " Hey, you should join us...because this thing doesn't really work

at all!! "

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kayleighs (#27614)

> Check Chaz Bufe's book for an analysis of the relevant Triennial

> Survey. I believe AA has recently stopped making it available.

I can easily believe that...I've been meaning to read Bufe's book for

quite a while now, but just never got around to it. You just talked

me into it.

-----------------------------------------

(#27617)

> The Mardi Gras Cam's are working

> over time.

Thanks! Having lived in Memphis for a while, I've been to Mardi Gras

three times. Ah, memories...

BTW, I checked out the Warner web page. Nice to see it when someone

picks apart AA's " spirituality " and shows it for what it is. Haven't

had a chance to look at the rest of it yet, but I will soon.

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ggoble (#27634)

Wow...I don't know really what else to say that hasn't already been

said, except that we've all been through it to various degrees. It

really angers me to hear stories like this - society would not

tolerate abuse like this in any other context. But when it's

connected with steppism and AA, too many people seem to politely

ignore it, refuse to believe it, or sweep it under the rug. FWIW, I

think you *are* making the right moves, and you're in a good place to

do that.

And while we're on the topic of stories about AA weirdos doing weird,

offensive things, for example, harassing an ex-member...

Re message 27656:

Dan...I'm not gonna dignify the load of garbage your attacker wrote

by responding to it directly. I will say, though, that your story

rings incredibly true, is far from being unique, and I have no

trouble believing it.

I guess that makes me an angry, bitter, paranoid, conspiracy

theorizing, hateful, closed minded, non-serene, vindictive, self

important, delusional, rabid, unspritual dry drunk in denial, huh?

That's nice...

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pat (#27645)

> > But we still have ambiguous feelings about alcohol,

because

> > none of us have been encouraged to acknowledge the positive

effects

> > that alcohol had for us, but only to dwell on the harm.

Acknowledging

> > the positive aspects would help us to achieve those positive

states

of

> > mind without alcohol.

> I was rather suprised to see you alluding to having experienced

> positive effects with alcohol. Maybe my mind is still entrenched

with

> AA beliefs relating to alcohol. But, from what I have heard and my

> experience with booze it is very difficult for me to honestly say

that

> I had positive experiences with alcohol. I am sincerely interested

in

> hearing what they may have been for you. [...] I would really

appreciate

> hearing others views on this topic.

Well, here goes...Positive experiences? Sure. My drinking

experience was a slow increase, over many years, from light to

moderate to heavy to ridiculous drinking And, for me, the positive

effects were, it reduced inhibitions (I could really enjoy the party,

or talk a little more freely to the gorgeous woman I'd just met. Not

to mention that, after a couple of drinks, she really started to

*look* gorgeous. But that's another topic :-) )...Also, it improved

my mood; I was a very happy drunk. I've heard stories of people who

drank and invariably got into fights in bars - I was the opposite,

everyone suddenly seemed like a really great guy or gal to me. If I

was having a few in my apartment alone, then the movie on TV which I

would have considered stupid and boring if I were sober became very

funny. Finally, it just felt good; apart from the mood enhancement,

there was a literal, sensory pleasure associated with the feeling of

intoxication.

Later,

McKellan