Re: Craving meats!

July 10, 2004

HI Amy,

I ditto your comments; great post Pierre and an important reminder for all of

us, including me.

Amy, do you happen to have those good protein filled vegetarian recipes on

your computer that you could forward? I have been having a hard time eating

meat, and perhaps something would sound better to me.

Thanks!

In a message dated 7/10/2004 5:06:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

purr-fect@... writes:

> found some good protein filled vegetarian recipes in there that I haven't

> tried yet.

>

July 10, 2004

Those of you who crave meat should probably just eat some. I wouldn't be

surprised if your combined protein and calorie intake is too low and your

body is craving protein.

One thing I found when I started on the renal diet (I was at about 30%

kidney function then), was that I consistently overestimated the number of

ounces of meat or alternatives I was eating. In other words, I wasn't eating

enough of it. It's really hard to guess. Get a little food scale and for the

meat alternatives, measure them with measuring spoons, etc. until you

develop the ability to estimate. If you have to guess and fudge, do so on

the side of eating more rather than less. Also, don't confuse ounces or mg

of meat with ounces or mg of protein. Meat is about one third protein by

weight, so you may have to eat more meat than you think.

It also bears repeating that low protein MUST be balanced by way more

calories than most people are intially comfortable with (especially those

who have been on wait loss diets), because years have been spent teaching

people to limit calories. The renal diet throws this right on its head. If

you don't eat enough protein and calories (the typical renal diet limits

protein to a certain number of ounces or grams per body weight), your body

WILL get the protein it needs from your own muscle tissues. It will

literally break down your own muscles for protein. This is not a good thing.

Besides playing havoc with your creatinine numbers, it's laying the

foundation for malnutrition. If you don't eat the specified number of extra

calories, you can be sure you will be fatigued and lack energy.

Pierre

P.S. Kidney patients should not be limiting anything unless their

nephrologist or renal dietician tells them to (and the renal dietician will

almost always be a lot more specific than the nephrologist). It's not that

doctors and dieticians know everything, but there are all kinds of good

reasons for this. It's just as easy to be too low on things like potassium

and phosphorus as it is to be too high on them, and when you have chronic

renal insufficiency, it's also more easy than most people would think to

become malnourished (especially as one approached ESRD).

July 10, 2004

Ditto what Pierre said...great post yet again. I can also add that for

vegetarians you MUST make sure you are getting the right kind of proteins.

The proteins provided by plant based diets are not as digestible as those

provided by meats. There are protein sources like soy that act like meat

proteins but you also can't get all your proteins from one source. I truly

feel a dietician is very important when it comes to the vegetarian renal

diet. It's taken me a year to get to the point of being able to make it

thru the day knowing I've eaten enough protein. (and I still have days where

I have to sit and really think about the tally for the day, those are

normally the days I have to have a big glass of soy milk and peanut butter

with my apple for my snack to make up for lack of protein in meals) I've

taken nearly a year of measuring my food, writing down the proteins I have

eaten for the day, and making a list of food serving sizes and the amount of

protein in each serving size, now I am finally comfortable enough to wing

it. I still keep a list on the fridge showing portion sizes and amounts of

protein in them so when I cook I have a quick reference. I do find, when I

write things down for the day, that I tend to fudge things higher than my

max amount set by my neph. Filling in the extra calories is hard but

needed. Try eating 7 servings of fruit daily...it gets tiresome but I force

myself to do it because I need the calories.

I find my cravings tend to hit the first few days of my menstrual

cycle...hence why I equate it with being low on iron rather than protein.

Amy

PS these posts have made me go back and look over a bunch of info I gathered

when I was first diagnosed...found some good protein filled vegetarian

recipes in there that I haven't tried yet.

Re: Craving meats!

> Those of you who crave meat should probably just eat some. I wouldn't be

> surprised if your combined protein and calorie intake is too low and your

> body is craving protein.

>

> One thing I found when I started on the renal diet (I was at about 30%

> kidney function then), was that I consistently overestimated the number of

> ounces of meat or alternatives I was eating. In other words, I wasn't

eating

> enough of it. It's really hard to guess. Get a little food scale and for

the

> meat alternatives, measure them with measuring spoons, etc. until you

> develop the ability to estimate. If you have to guess and fudge, do so on

> the side of eating more rather than less. Also, don't confuse ounces or mg

> of meat with ounces or mg of protein. Meat is about one third protein by

> weight, so you may have to eat more meat than you think.

>

> It also bears repeating that low protein MUST be balanced by way more

> calories than most people are intially comfortable with (especially those

> who have been on wait loss diets), because years have been spent teaching

> people to limit calories. The renal diet throws this right on its head. If

> you don't eat enough protein and calories (the typical renal diet limits

> protein to a certain number of ounces or grams per body weight), your body

> WILL get the protein it needs from your own muscle tissues. It will

> literally break down your own muscles for protein. This is not a good

thing.

> Besides playing havoc with your creatinine numbers, it's laying the

> foundation for malnutrition. If you don't eat the specified number of

extra

> calories, you can be sure you will be fatigued and lack energy.

> Pierre

> P.S. Kidney patients should not be limiting anything unless their

> nephrologist or renal dietician tells them to (and the renal dietician

will

> almost always be a lot more specific than the nephrologist). It's not that

> doctors and dieticians know everything, but there are all kinds of good

> reasons for this. It's just as easy to be too low on things like potassium

> and phosphorus as it is to be too high on them, and when you have chronic

> renal insufficiency, it's also more easy than most people would think to

> become malnourished (especially as one approached ESRD).

>

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> Thank you

>

July 11, 2004

I get the meat bad craving too; I have notice its when I am leaking a

major amount of protien or on my period. But I just remind myself

everything in moderation. I was warn about eating lots of protien,

Martha

-- In iga-nephropathy , " andymaisel " <andymaisel@y...>

wrote:

> Haven't written in a while. Things are stable with my 5yr. old son.

I

> HAVE noticed, though, that he craves and eats a ton of meat. He can

> polish off an entire steak or two hot dogs in one sitting. I know

> that protein is lost through the kidneys with IGNA. Is this his way

> of replenishing it? Has anyone else experienced this? He has not

been

> on prednisone for over six months. My family is in shock when they

> see him eat dinner these days LOL! Thanks for the feedback, Andy

July 11, 2004

Hi Amy,

I don't know if I thanked you at the time, but you mentioned malt-o-meal

several months ago. When I was in the grocer's I checked the labels and you

were absolutely right. There's also house brands of the stuff that have

comparable iron values. Maybe we'll try the muffins..

Cy

Re: Craving meats!

>

> > Amy,

> >

> > I've been wondering if my body needs iron and that's why I have been

> craving

> > meat after being a vegetarian for over 20 years. I've never worried

about

> > iron, but my labs showed I was borderline anemic. I wonder if that's

> connected.

> > What other foods do you eat to get iron? Thanks.

> > Cheryl

> >

July 13, 2004

Dave,

It would be the potassium and sodium that would be high so it depends on if

you have been told to watch the intake of those or not.

In a message dated 7/13/2004 11:47:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

teamcourage1@... writes:

> the best pizza we have anitalian rst5ant here owned by an itlialn and it

> is tru itialian pizza hmm but im sure not good oj the kdineys

July 13, 2004

Dave,

It would be the potassium and sodium that would be high so it depends on if

you have been told to watch the intake of those or not.

In a message dated 7/13/2004 11:47:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

teamcourage1@... writes:

> the best pizza we have anitalian rst5ant here owned by an itlialn and it

> is tru itialian pizza hmm but im sure not good oj the kdineys

July 15, 2004

I still eat pizza, just not to the extent I used to. I'll have a couple of

slices now and then. If you couldn't cheat once in a while, life would be

pretty dull. With pizza, the main culprits would be sodium (a pizza is very

salty) and phosphorus (the cheese), and potassium a little, but only really

if you ate the whole pizza.

By now, I've been on dialysis long enough that I have a pretty good idea

what will affect my monthly blood work results. It takes a lot. One time I

deliberately ate an order of fries from a chip wagon the day before monthly

blood work. Instead of my potassium being 4.5 (that's before treatment), it

was 5, which is more than acceptable. Of course, I wouldn't have done this

if my nephrologist hadn't said that I needn't have my wife soak the potatoes

anymore - as my potassium isn't really too high. I'm still on the potassium

" bath " concentration that removes the least amount of potassium during

dialysis.

Of course, that's me. I wouldn't suggest that anyone not follow their diet.

Most of use more aware dialysis patients will say that you do get to know

what you can and can't tolerate, after a while.

Pierre

Re: Craving meats!

> Dave,

>

> It would be the potassium and sodium that would be high so it depends on

if

> you have been told to watch the intake of those or not.

>

> In a message dated 7/13/2004 11:47:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> teamcourage1@... writes:

>

> > the best pizza we have anitalian rst5ant here owned by an itlialn and it

> > is tru itialian pizza hmm but im sure not good oj the kdineys

>

July 15, 2004