Re: ALA and high copper - Val

October 8, 2006

>

> In Andy's book, he says some people excrete copper through urine

and

> some through bile. If through bile, don't take ala. If through

> urine, it's ok.

>

> How the heck do you find out how you excrete copper?

TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ? The

above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a known

copper problem.

I believe he

> recommended some test but again, where do I go to get these tests?

> Some copper toxicity experts recommend ala. They never mention

about

> it blocking copper excretion. I took ala and felt great!

TK--- how much ala, how often ?

But then

> felt scary/rotten a couple days after I finished a round. Was

this

> redistribution or was it copper retention? !

TK--- common side effects after a round

>

> I want to take ala again but now I'm confused.

>

> I almost feel like just throwing my hands up and giving up. Do

I

> have LYme? Copper toxicity? Mercury toxicity? Arsenic? How do

I

> proceed without going broke (again!) paying ridiculous fees to

> overpriced greedy docs?

TK--- what did your DDI hair elements test show about the above

[Hg,copper, arsenic] ? Most tests you can do without using a

doctor - DLS links section.

>

> Val

>

October 8, 2006

>

> In Andy's book, he says some people excrete copper through urine

and

> some through bile. If through bile, don't take ala. If through

> urine, it's ok.

>

> How the heck do you find out how you excrete copper?

TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ? The

above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a known

copper problem.

I believe he

> recommended some test but again, where do I go to get these tests?

> Some copper toxicity experts recommend ala. They never mention

about

> it blocking copper excretion. I took ala and felt great!

TK--- how much ala, how often ?

But then

> felt scary/rotten a couple days after I finished a round. Was

this

> redistribution or was it copper retention? !

TK--- common side effects after a round

>

> I want to take ala again but now I'm confused.

>

> I almost feel like just throwing my hands up and giving up. Do

I

> have LYme? Copper toxicity? Mercury toxicity? Arsenic? How do

I

> proceed without going broke (again!) paying ridiculous fees to

> overpriced greedy docs?

TK--- what did your DDI hair elements test show about the above

[Hg,copper, arsenic] ? Most tests you can do without using a

doctor - DLS links section.

>

> Val

>

October 8, 2006

>

> TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ? The

> above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a known

> copper problem.

--- On my hair test - the copper goes off the page past the 97.5

percentile (result 110ug/g)

--- I also had a dmps urine provocation (I know, bad!) and again

my copper levels went off the page (.33 ug/mg creat)

---- Also, I am/was a chocolate fanatic. I mean I would gorge on

it. My lower back is constantly sore and my belly is also constantly

distended. I feel sick all the time. Jeez, now I've got myself

thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking about going to the

hospital and having tests done. What do you think? Kinda scared.

October 8, 2006

>

> TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ? The

> above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a known

> copper problem.

--- On my hair test - the copper goes off the page past the 97.5

percentile (result 110ug/g)

--- I also had a dmps urine provocation (I know, bad!) and again

my copper levels went off the page (.33 ug/mg creat)

---- Also, I am/was a chocolate fanatic. I mean I would gorge on

it. My lower back is constantly sore and my belly is also constantly

distended. I feel sick all the time. Jeez, now I've got myself

thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking about going to the

hospital and having tests done. What do you think? Kinda scared.

October 8, 2006

>Jeez, now I've got myself thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking

about going to the

>hospital and having tests done. What do you think? Kinda scared.

Do you have Kayser-fleischer rings in eyes (see image at

http://health.enotes.com/images/neurological-disorders/gend_02_img0110.jpg)

They appear in 's Disease. You can also check RBC copper and urine

copper (not serum copper) and Serum ceruloplasmin test.

www.wilsonsdisease.org/about%20wilsons%20disease.html

October 8, 2006

>Jeez, now I've got myself thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking

about going to the

>hospital and having tests done. What do you think? Kinda scared.

Do you have Kayser-fleischer rings in eyes (see image at

http://health.enotes.com/images/neurological-disorders/gend_02_img0110.jpg)

They appear in 's Disease. You can also check RBC copper and urine

copper (not serum copper) and Serum ceruloplasmin test.

www.wilsonsdisease.org/about%20wilsons%20disease.html

October 8, 2006

>Jeez, now I've got myself thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking

about going to the

>hospital and having tests done. What do you think? Kinda scared.

Do you have Kayser-fleischer rings in eyes (see image at

http://health.enotes.com/images/neurological-disorders/gend_02_img0110.jpg)

They appear in 's Disease. You can also check RBC copper and urine

copper (not serum copper) and Serum ceruloplasmin test.

www.wilsonsdisease.org/about%20wilsons%20disease.html

October 8, 2006

>

> >

> > TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ?

The

> > above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a

known

> > copper problem.

>

> --- On my hair test - the copper goes off the page past the 97.5

> percentile (result 110ug/g)

TK--- this is reflective of high copper levels and you should make

sure you eliminate it from your diet and exposure. You need to add

the other supplements suggested for high copper. You should not

chelate with ALA for now until you get the levels down, use dmsa or

dmps.

>

> --- I also had a dmps urine provocation (I know, bad!) and again

> my copper levels went off the page (.33 ug/mg creat)

>

> ---- Also, I am/was a chocolate fanatic. I mean I would gorge on

> it.

TK--- stop, you are hurting yourself.

My lower back is constantly sore and my belly is also constantly

> distended. I feel sick all the time. Jeez, now I've got myself

> thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking about going to the

> hospital and having tests done.

TK--- what tests ?

What do you think? Kinda scared.

>

October 8, 2006

>

> >

> > TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ?

The

> > above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a

known

> > copper problem.

>

> --- On my hair test - the copper goes off the page past the 97.5

> percentile (result 110ug/g)

TK--- this is reflective of high copper levels and you should make

sure you eliminate it from your diet and exposure. You need to add

the other supplements suggested for high copper. You should not

chelate with ALA for now until you get the levels down, use dmsa or

dmps.

>

> --- I also had a dmps urine provocation (I know, bad!) and again

> my copper levels went off the page (.33 ug/mg creat)

>

> ---- Also, I am/was a chocolate fanatic. I mean I would gorge on

> it.

TK--- stop, you are hurting yourself.

My lower back is constantly sore and my belly is also constantly

> distended. I feel sick all the time. Jeez, now I've got myself

> thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking about going to the

> hospital and having tests done.

TK--- what tests ?

What do you think? Kinda scared.

>

October 8, 2006

>

> >

> > TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ?

The

> > above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a

known

> > copper problem.

>

> --- On my hair test - the copper goes off the page past the 97.5

> percentile (result 110ug/g)

TK--- this is reflective of high copper levels and you should make

sure you eliminate it from your diet and exposure. You need to add

the other supplements suggested for high copper. You should not

chelate with ALA for now until you get the levels down, use dmsa or

dmps.

>

> --- I also had a dmps urine provocation (I know, bad!) and again

> my copper levels went off the page (.33 ug/mg creat)

>

> ---- Also, I am/was a chocolate fanatic. I mean I would gorge on

> it.

TK--- stop, you are hurting yourself.

My lower back is constantly sore and my belly is also constantly

> distended. I feel sick all the time. Jeez, now I've got myself

> thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking about going to the

> hospital and having tests done.

TK--- what tests ?

What do you think? Kinda scared.

>

October 8, 2006

>

> TK--- what tests ?

>

Tests to check for 's disease. And have my liver checked. I

swear, SOMETHING is wrong. Whether it's mercury,lyme,copper,arsenic I

don't know. Copper is starting to make alot of sense.

October 8, 2006

>

> TK--- what tests ?

>

Tests to check for 's disease. And have my liver checked. I

swear, SOMETHING is wrong. Whether it's mercury,lyme,copper,arsenic I

don't know. Copper is starting to make alot of sense.

October 8, 2006

>

> TK--- what tests ?

>

Tests to check for 's disease. And have my liver checked. I

swear, SOMETHING is wrong. Whether it's mercury,lyme,copper,arsenic I

don't know. Copper is starting to make alot of sense.

October 8, 2006

>

> >

> > TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ? The

> > above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a known

> > copper problem.

>

> --- On my hair test - the copper goes off the page past the 97.5

> percentile (result 110ug/g)

This level of copper is toxic (but could be worse, so don't get

too worried). Andy's basic recommendations are supposed to make

people feel better. They include: stop eating high copper foods,

take zinc every meal, high doses of molybdenum (1,000-3000 mcg/day),

take supps to increase bile flow (milk thistle, glycine, taurine,

phosphatidylcholine). If you have problems with these supps, take

what you can.

I don't know your symptoms, but if you suspect a gall bladder or

other bile flow problem, you may want to look into it. Andy says

high copper suggests the possibility of problems in this area.

Sometimes you have to be creative in order to get a proper workup

by a doctor.

> --- I also had a dmps urine provocation (I know, bad!) and again

> my copper levels went off the page (.33 ug/mg creat)

I don't know what it means.

> ---- Also, I am/was a chocolate fanatic. I mean I would gorge on

> it. My lower back is constantly sore and my belly is also constantly

> distended. I feel sick all the time. Jeez, now I've got myself

> thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking about going to the

> hospital and having tests done. What do you think? Kinda scared.

>

Eliminating high copper foods from diet apparently helps people

to feel a lot better. There are good lists. Check the archives.

W has posted before a compilation of Andy's comments on high

copper (either here or maybe check onibasu).

You might want to find a book by Ann Louise Gittleman called

Why Am I Always So Tired? I don't think the book is entirely

consistent with Andy's recommendations, but there is a lot of

overlap and it will give you a good introduction and a lot more

information to start from. Andy's HTI book is a good resource

for recommendations on what to do about copper, what symptoms

it causes, etc. You will probably find it more readable than

the AI book.

Oh - and according to the HTI book, you don't have to totally

stop ALA, just restrict how often you use it (not every round).

Andy gives guidelines in HTI for how often you can use ALA for

a given hair level of copper. If your hair test is not recent,

I ecommend getting a new one since copper can change a lot even

in a couple of months.

--

October 8, 2006

>

> >

> > TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ? The

> > above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a known

> > copper problem.

>

> --- On my hair test - the copper goes off the page past the 97.5

> percentile (result 110ug/g)

This level of copper is toxic (but could be worse, so don't get

too worried). Andy's basic recommendations are supposed to make

people feel better. They include: stop eating high copper foods,

take zinc every meal, high doses of molybdenum (1,000-3000 mcg/day),

take supps to increase bile flow (milk thistle, glycine, taurine,

phosphatidylcholine). If you have problems with these supps, take

what you can.

I don't know your symptoms, but if you suspect a gall bladder or

other bile flow problem, you may want to look into it. Andy says

high copper suggests the possibility of problems in this area.

Sometimes you have to be creative in order to get a proper workup

by a doctor.

> --- I also had a dmps urine provocation (I know, bad!) and again

> my copper levels went off the page (.33 ug/mg creat)

I don't know what it means.

> ---- Also, I am/was a chocolate fanatic. I mean I would gorge on

> it. My lower back is constantly sore and my belly is also constantly

> distended. I feel sick all the time. Jeez, now I've got myself

> thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking about going to the

> hospital and having tests done. What do you think? Kinda scared.

>

Eliminating high copper foods from diet apparently helps people

to feel a lot better. There are good lists. Check the archives.

W has posted before a compilation of Andy's comments on high

copper (either here or maybe check onibasu).

You might want to find a book by Ann Louise Gittleman called

Why Am I Always So Tired? I don't think the book is entirely

consistent with Andy's recommendations, but there is a lot of

overlap and it will give you a good introduction and a lot more

information to start from. Andy's HTI book is a good resource

for recommendations on what to do about copper, what symptoms

it causes, etc. You will probably find it more readable than

the AI book.

Oh - and according to the HTI book, you don't have to totally

stop ALA, just restrict how often you use it (not every round).

Andy gives guidelines in HTI for how often you can use ALA for

a given hair level of copper. If your hair test is not recent,

I ecommend getting a new one since copper can change a lot even

in a couple of months.

--

October 8, 2006

>

> >

> > TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ? The

> > above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a known

> > copper problem.

>

> --- On my hair test - the copper goes off the page past the 97.5

> percentile (result 110ug/g)

This level of copper is toxic (but could be worse, so don't get

too worried). Andy's basic recommendations are supposed to make

people feel better. They include: stop eating high copper foods,

take zinc every meal, high doses of molybdenum (1,000-3000 mcg/day),

take supps to increase bile flow (milk thistle, glycine, taurine,

phosphatidylcholine). If you have problems with these supps, take

what you can.

I don't know your symptoms, but if you suspect a gall bladder or

other bile flow problem, you may want to look into it. Andy says

high copper suggests the possibility of problems in this area.

Sometimes you have to be creative in order to get a proper workup

by a doctor.

> --- I also had a dmps urine provocation (I know, bad!) and again

> my copper levels went off the page (.33 ug/mg creat)

I don't know what it means.

> ---- Also, I am/was a chocolate fanatic. I mean I would gorge on

> it. My lower back is constantly sore and my belly is also constantly

> distended. I feel sick all the time. Jeez, now I've got myself

> thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking about going to the

> hospital and having tests done. What do you think? Kinda scared.

>

Eliminating high copper foods from diet apparently helps people

to feel a lot better. There are good lists. Check the archives.

W has posted before a compilation of Andy's comments on high

copper (either here or maybe check onibasu).

You might want to find a book by Ann Louise Gittleman called

Why Am I Always So Tired? I don't think the book is entirely

consistent with Andy's recommendations, but there is a lot of

overlap and it will give you a good introduction and a lot more

information to start from. Andy's HTI book is a good resource

for recommendations on what to do about copper, what symptoms

it causes, etc. You will probably find it more readable than

the AI book.

Oh - and according to the HTI book, you don't have to totally

stop ALA, just restrict how often you use it (not every round).

Andy gives guidelines in HTI for how often you can use ALA for

a given hair level of copper. If your hair test is not recent,

I ecommend getting a new one since copper can change a lot even

in a couple of months.

--

October 8, 2006

thanks, . I just bought the book you were referring to

last week. And that test is 3 yrs old! I've been researching high

copper and the NIH did a study back in 1980 how adolescents

w/scoliosis all tested high for hair copper. I grew up with

scoliosis. So, I'm wondering what exactly my problem is - copper,

mercury? both? My gut says the two don't travel alone. Maybe I'll

check out Andy's other book. I hope it's easier to understand than

the amalgam one!

Val

==============

>

> >

> > >

> > > TK--- do you think you have a copper problem and if so why ?

The

> > > above is usually not a problem for people unless they have a

known

> > > copper problem.

> >

> > --- On my hair test - the copper goes off the page past the

97.5

> > percentile (result 110ug/g)

>

> This level of copper is toxic (but could be worse, so don't get

> too worried). Andy's basic recommendations are supposed to make

> people feel better. They include: stop eating high copper foods,

> take zinc every meal, high doses of molybdenum (1,000-3000

mcg/day),

> take supps to increase bile flow (milk thistle, glycine, taurine,

> phosphatidylcholine). If you have problems with these supps, take

> what you can.

>

> I don't know your symptoms, but if you suspect a gall bladder or

> other bile flow problem, you may want to look into it. Andy says

> high copper suggests the possibility of problems in this area.

> Sometimes you have to be creative in order to get a proper workup

> by a doctor.

>

> > --- I also had a dmps urine provocation (I know, bad!) and

again

> > my copper levels went off the page (.33 ug/mg creat)

>

> I don't know what it means.

>

> > ---- Also, I am/was a chocolate fanatic. I mean I would gorge

on

> > it. My lower back is constantly sore and my belly is also

constantly

> > distended. I feel sick all the time. Jeez, now I've got myself

> > thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking about going to

the

> > hospital and having tests done. What do you think? Kinda

scared.

> >

>

> Eliminating high copper foods from diet apparently helps people

> to feel a lot better. There are good lists. Check the archives.

> W has posted before a compilation of Andy's comments on high

> copper (either here or maybe check onibasu).

>

> You might want to find a book by Ann Louise Gittleman called

> Why Am I Always So Tired? I don't think the book is entirely

> consistent with Andy's recommendations, but there is a lot of

> overlap and it will give you a good introduction and a lot more

> information to start from. Andy's HTI book is a good resource

> for recommendations on what to do about copper, what symptoms

> it causes, etc. You will probably find it more readable than

> the AI book.

>

> Oh - and according to the HTI book, you don't have to totally

> stop ALA, just restrict how often you use it (not every round).

> Andy gives guidelines in HTI for how often you can use ALA for

> a given hair level of copper. If your hair test is not recent,

> I ecommend getting a new one since copper can change a lot even

> in a couple of months.

>

> --

>

October 8, 2006

Jeez, now I've got myself

> thinking I have 's disease. I'm thinking about going to the

> hospital and having tests done. What do you think? Kinda scared.

>

People with wilsons don't excrete copper therefore you probably would

have low copper in your hair. What Andy was referring to to see if you

excrete copper is to do a fecal copper test. Since most copper is

released in the bile then if your fecal metals (copper) are above the

minimum then your ok. If its below then you have something messed up

in your liver (wilson or the other 20 things that cause copper

problems) Then doing ALA would be beneficial since it increases urine

copper levels.

October 10, 2006

Hi Val,

Your hair test definitely shows high copper, and you had 3 elements in the red

zone, only one away from meeting that counting rule, so i would be suspicious of

mercury also. Andy does mention in HTI that copper and mercury can go together

and have very similar symptoms and are easily confused. On page 116 of HTI, he

says, " The derangement of mineral transport that mercury causes usually favors

the accumulation of copper. " Also, " Most body copper is in the liver and the

brain and these can become damaged and function improperly due to copper

toxicity......Thus copper is a synergistic poison with other heavy metals and

those who have a heavy metal problem usually do best to maintain low-normal

copper levels. "

I agree that you should get a new hair test done, since this one is 3 years old.

And yes, I think the Hair Test book is an easier read. Hang in there Val, we'll

figure this out!

Jackie t.

----- Original Message -----

From: thanks, . I just bought the book you were referring to

last week. And that test is 3 yrs old! I've been researching high

copper and the NIH did a study back in 1980 how adolescents

w/scoliosis all tested high for hair copper. I grew up with

scoliosis. So, I'm wondering what exactly my problem is - copper,

mercury? both? My gut says the two don't travel alone. Maybe I'll

check out Andy's other book. I hope it's easier to understand than

the amalgam one!

Val

seashell_555

October 10, 2006