My repsonse to Jack P.

[Guest guest]

Following was my response to Jack P. on the Delphi board -- thought I'd

post it here for posterity, since board moderator Buddy T. will probably delete

the whole thread -- too " un-serene " for his taste.

~Rita

***begin***

<< I thought it would be enlightening to join the 12-Step-Free message board at

. >>

Hmm, yes, I suspected it was you.

12-Step-Free is not a mere " message board " , it is a PRIVATE listserve with a

very specific mission statement:

" Twelve Step Free Zone is a discussion list for people who have left the step

groups or are seriously questioning 12-step doctrine. "

You got the mission statement when you subscribed to that private list, and you

knew full well you did not belong there. In AA terminology, " the only

requirement for membership is to have rejected or become very skeptical of

12-step philosophy. " You didn't meet the criteria and deliberately joined under

false pretenses, for the sole purpose of disrupting the list with OFF-TOPIC

posts. And yes, talking about how mistaken you were for having to much

" intellectual pride " at first and how wonderful you think AA is now and how God

and AA saved your life is offensively off-topic for that list.

<< I was hoping my reply would be recieved in the spirit in which it was

written; helpful. >>

No you weren't. The lady had joined 12-step-Free and was specifically asking

for leads to NON-12-STEP sobriety programs and ideas. If she had wanted advice

on how to be more receptive to AA she would have posted to an AA list, which

there are dozens of. Your " advice " to her was unsolicited and unhelpful. You

were trying to " save " her from what you arrogantly thought was a " wrong "

approach to sobriety. I notice you didn't answer anyone else's posts to you on

that list, including mine -- you were deliberately seeking out what appeared to

be a vulnerable newcomer, so you could 12-step her. That was not only

inappropriate on a private non-12-step list, it is downright malicious.

<< Apparently, Mr. Ragge refuses to tolerate a dissenting view. >>

Wrong again. This About.com alcoholism message board is described as a place to

discuss alcoholism and recovery issues in general, which includes both 12-step

and non-12-step ideologies, and legal issues, etc. 12-Step-Free is not a

general alcoholism/recovery site, but a listserve with a specific theme. That

is the difference. There is all kind of disagreement among non-steppers about

many things and Mr. Ragge is in fact quite tolerant of political arguments on

the list, which sometimes have gotten quite heated. But there is absolutely no

reason for him to accept someone deliberately and provocatively going against

the whole purpose of the list. You might as well post to a religious Jewish

list about how " happy joyous and free " you've become since accepting Jesus as

your savior.

How about some " rigorous honesty " , Jack -- admit that you joined 12-Step-Free in

order to (1) troll for potential converts to 12-steppism and (2) deliberately

get yourself unsubscribed by the listowner for continuing to behave blatantly

inappropriately, so you could come back here and try to discredit Ken and the

listmembers as " intolerant of dissent " . You were wrong to do this -- how about

promptly admitting it, and making amends by apologizing?

~Rita

--------------------------

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>

>Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:46:05 -0000

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Jack P.'s post at about.com

> Hi All,

>

> I thought it would be enlightening to join the 12-Step-Free message

>board at .

(SNIP)

>

> Jack,

>

> Unfortunately, your " hardly ever " acting like an idiot has all been

> here.

>

> You are banned from the list.

>

> Ken Ragge

> list manager >>

>

> Apparently, Mr. Ragge refuses to tolerate a dissenting view. Isn't

>this the kind of " cultist " behavior AntiSteppers are trying to

> avoid.

>

> " We talked of intolerance while we were intolerant ourselves. "

>(Alcoholics Anonymous, p.50)

>

> Jack P.

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