Re: Friends and other strangers

[Guest guest]

Hi Janissa

I read your entire note and have a thought or two. I've had the same

experience. It's not necessarily because I am sick. What I came to

understand is that people come and go from our lives for a variety of

reasons. We meet up and become friends during a particular time when

it's appropriate and we have something to share... and then we move

on. We make new friends and the whole cycle starts again.

I had to get over the idea that just because something happened a

certain way at a certain time (such as your friend who was discouraged

and depressed... and now has a house and a job) implies any longevity.

You shared what you shared at that time.... and now s/he has moved on.

There's no disloyalty or disrespect implied in that. It's just life

changes.

As hard as it is (or at least has been for me), I know I have to be

constantly open to new people coming into my life and

knowing/accepting that it is only the moment we have. I've

corresponded with people about specific issues and when that's done,

we stop. And that's ok. Right now, I am corresponding with quite a

few people about the WTC explosions. We share views and ideas and

that sharing can even be rather intimate but it will eventually end.

The most I can do is enjoy it for now and not cling to " the future " or

what will happen then.

Maybe I think of people as being God's messengers. Sometimes someone

comes along and says just the right thing or brings a new idea into my

life. Sometimes someone comes along who challenges all my

preconcieved notions about something. Sometimes someone comes along

who just pisses me off to no end.. and I see that as an opportunity to

challenge my own unhealed parts.

I guess I've learned to go with the tides a bit more now... and it

really has decreased my stress levels a lot (thus improving my

health.)

Hopefully, some of this will be useful.

-FireSpirit

[Guest guest]

:

> My life is a changing, ever-flowing process and I can't

> even say where I'll be two weeks from now. I need that freedom and

> I need for my friends to be OK with that. I won't " work " to maintain

> it. I will be who I am. I will always be honest. I will be as

> compassionate and loving as I know how to be. I will not " work. "

I don't think that it would be work. In a friendship it takes two to make it

a relationship of friendliness. Let your friends know about how FMS often

does not allow you to do as you wanted to. I never say " I promise " to anyone

anymore except my granddaughters. My friends know that I will do what I can

and if I can't well there will be another time. So I guess in one sense, you

do have to work at a friendship.

###########################################################

>

> > circumstances change. I only wish that these friendships could

> weather

> > those changes without dissipating.

>

> Or maybe at least that there's some sort of closure? Sometimes it's

> the wondering that is the hardest part. In cases like that, I've been

> known to ask directly.

>

This is a common problem when someone changes from an illness. It is hard to

know what to say so often they will gradually change the friendship. Because

they do not know what to say to someone ill and not available at times, they

often drop away. It is sad but human nature being what it is, I am afraid

this will often happen.

I, too, have asked friends what has happened to our friendship and a lot of

times I find out that it is all in my head. Because I am ill, I see slights

that are not there. See if this could possibly be happening to you.

Take care of yourself,

Irene co-moderator

>

>

> Or maybe at least that there's some sort of closure? Sometimes it's

> the wondering that is the hardest part. In cases like that, I've been

> known to ask directly.

>

[Guest guest]

:

> My life is a changing, ever-flowing process and I can't

> even say where I'll be two weeks from now. I need that freedom and

> I need for my friends to be OK with that. I won't " work " to maintain

> it. I will be who I am. I will always be honest. I will be as

> compassionate and loving as I know how to be. I will not " work. "

I don't think that it would be work. In a friendship it takes two to make it

a relationship of friendliness. Let your friends know about how FMS often

does not allow you to do as you wanted to. I never say " I promise " to anyone

anymore except my granddaughters. My friends know that I will do what I can

and if I can't well there will be another time. So I guess in one sense, you

do have to work at a friendship.

###########################################################

>

> > circumstances change. I only wish that these friendships could

> weather

> > those changes without dissipating.

>

> Or maybe at least that there's some sort of closure? Sometimes it's

> the wondering that is the hardest part. In cases like that, I've been

> known to ask directly.

>

This is a common problem when someone changes from an illness. It is hard to

know what to say so often they will gradually change the friendship. Because

they do not know what to say to someone ill and not available at times, they

often drop away. It is sad but human nature being what it is, I am afraid

this will often happen.

I, too, have asked friends what has happened to our friendship and a lot of

times I find out that it is all in my head. Because I am ill, I see slights

that are not there. See if this could possibly be happening to you.

Take care of yourself,

Irene co-moderator

>

>

> Or maybe at least that there's some sort of closure? Sometimes it's

> the wondering that is the hardest part. In cases like that, I've been

> known to ask directly.

>

[Guest guest]

:

> My life is a changing, ever-flowing process and I can't

> even say where I'll be two weeks from now. I need that freedom and

> I need for my friends to be OK with that. I won't " work " to maintain

> it. I will be who I am. I will always be honest. I will be as

> compassionate and loving as I know how to be. I will not " work. "

I don't think that it would be work. In a friendship it takes two to make it

a relationship of friendliness. Let your friends know about how FMS often

does not allow you to do as you wanted to. I never say " I promise " to anyone

anymore except my granddaughters. My friends know that I will do what I can

and if I can't well there will be another time. So I guess in one sense, you

do have to work at a friendship.

###########################################################

>

> > circumstances change. I only wish that these friendships could

> weather

> > those changes without dissipating.

>

> Or maybe at least that there's some sort of closure? Sometimes it's

> the wondering that is the hardest part. In cases like that, I've been

> known to ask directly.

>

This is a common problem when someone changes from an illness. It is hard to

know what to say so often they will gradually change the friendship. Because

they do not know what to say to someone ill and not available at times, they

often drop away. It is sad but human nature being what it is, I am afraid

this will often happen.

I, too, have asked friends what has happened to our friendship and a lot of

times I find out that it is all in my head. Because I am ill, I see slights

that are not there. See if this could possibly be happening to you.

Take care of yourself,

Irene co-moderator

>

>

> Or maybe at least that there's some sort of closure? Sometimes it's

> the wondering that is the hardest part. In cases like that, I've been

> known to ask directly.

>

[Guest guest]

Somehow I regret posting this originally now, I'll keep this sort of thing

Please don't keep from posting something that you need to say. People will

not always agree with you. That is life. Keeping things to yourself is not

helpful to you. I feel that you are locking us out because we feel different

from you in some manner.

Keeping your feelings to yourself will cause you to run into a brick wall

from stress and then you will be worse than you are now.

I answer you email and I don't know if you will agree with what I said. I

said how I feel about your posting. I will be sorry if you get unhappy or

upset by what I said but I feel that I had to be true to myself by saying

what I feel.

I really do not know what else to say to you that would make you feel better

but I can't. The only way for you to feel and be better has to come from

inside.

Take care of yourself,

Irene

co-moderator

[Guest guest]

Somehow I regret posting this originally now, I'll keep this sort of thing

Please don't keep from posting something that you need to say. People will

not always agree with you. That is life. Keeping things to yourself is not

helpful to you. I feel that you are locking us out because we feel different

from you in some manner.

Keeping your feelings to yourself will cause you to run into a brick wall

from stress and then you will be worse than you are now.

I answer you email and I don't know if you will agree with what I said. I

said how I feel about your posting. I will be sorry if you get unhappy or

upset by what I said but I feel that I had to be true to myself by saying

what I feel.

I really do not know what else to say to you that would make you feel better

but I can't. The only way for you to feel and be better has to come from

inside.

Take care of yourself,

Irene

co-moderator

[Guest guest]

Somehow I regret posting this originally now, I'll keep this sort of thing

Please don't keep from posting something that you need to say. People will

not always agree with you. That is life. Keeping things to yourself is not

helpful to you. I feel that you are locking us out because we feel different

from you in some manner.

Keeping your feelings to yourself will cause you to run into a brick wall

from stress and then you will be worse than you are now.

I answer you email and I don't know if you will agree with what I said. I

said how I feel about your posting. I will be sorry if you get unhappy or

upset by what I said but I feel that I had to be true to myself by saying

what I feel.

I really do not know what else to say to you that would make you feel better

but I can't. The only way for you to feel and be better has to come from

inside.

Take care of yourself,

Irene

co-moderator

[Guest guest]

At 09:39 AM 10/02/2001 -0700, dc bradshaw wrote:

>I had to get over the idea that just because something happened a

>certain way at a certain time (such as your friend who was discouraged and

>depressed... and now has a house and a job) implies any longevity. You

>shared what you shared at that time.... and now s/he has moved on. There's

>no disloyalty or disrespect implied in that. It's just life changes.

There's a part of me that knows you're right. There's also a part of me

that just feels used and discouraged. If these were purely online friends,

I think I'd be a little more flexible, but these are people who have stayed

in my home, who have been a part of my *real* life. And I don't want that

to end, and yet it seems that it pretty much has. Friendships are work --

you can let them drift and they may end on their own, but if you care, you

pursue it. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. You see what I'm saying? What

hurts is not really the number of friends I (evidently don't) have. It is

that no one seems to be willing to participate in maintaining a

relationship that was once seemingly *mutually* important. Yes,

circumstances change. I only wish that these friendships could weather

those changes without dissipating.

>I guess I've learned to go with the tides a bit more now... and it

>really has decreased my stress levels a lot (thus improving my

>health.)

I'm glad for you. I hope that someday I'm going to develop a more

accepting feeling about this.

Best,

Em

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is the tale, not he who tells it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

At 09:39 AM 10/02/2001 -0700, dc bradshaw wrote:

>I had to get over the idea that just because something happened a

>certain way at a certain time (such as your friend who was discouraged and

>depressed... and now has a house and a job) implies any longevity. You

>shared what you shared at that time.... and now s/he has moved on. There's

>no disloyalty or disrespect implied in that. It's just life changes.

There's a part of me that knows you're right. There's also a part of me

that just feels used and discouraged. If these were purely online friends,

I think I'd be a little more flexible, but these are people who have stayed

in my home, who have been a part of my *real* life. And I don't want that

to end, and yet it seems that it pretty much has. Friendships are work --

you can let them drift and they may end on their own, but if you care, you

pursue it. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. You see what I'm saying? What

hurts is not really the number of friends I (evidently don't) have. It is

that no one seems to be willing to participate in maintaining a

relationship that was once seemingly *mutually* important. Yes,

circumstances change. I only wish that these friendships could weather

those changes without dissipating.

>I guess I've learned to go with the tides a bit more now... and it

>really has decreased my stress levels a lot (thus improving my

>health.)

I'm glad for you. I hope that someday I'm going to develop a more

accepting feeling about this.

Best,

Em

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is the tale, not he who tells it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

At 09:39 AM 10/02/2001 -0700, dc bradshaw wrote:

>I had to get over the idea that just because something happened a

>certain way at a certain time (such as your friend who was discouraged and

>depressed... and now has a house and a job) implies any longevity. You

>shared what you shared at that time.... and now s/he has moved on. There's

>no disloyalty or disrespect implied in that. It's just life changes.

There's a part of me that knows you're right. There's also a part of me

that just feels used and discouraged. If these were purely online friends,

I think I'd be a little more flexible, but these are people who have stayed

in my home, who have been a part of my *real* life. And I don't want that

to end, and yet it seems that it pretty much has. Friendships are work --

you can let them drift and they may end on their own, but if you care, you

pursue it. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. You see what I'm saying? What

hurts is not really the number of friends I (evidently don't) have. It is

that no one seems to be willing to participate in maintaining a

relationship that was once seemingly *mutually* important. Yes,

circumstances change. I only wish that these friendships could weather

those changes without dissipating.

>I guess I've learned to go with the tides a bit more now... and it

>really has decreased my stress levels a lot (thus improving my

>health.)

I'm glad for you. I hope that someday I'm going to develop a more

accepting feeling about this.

Best,

Em

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is the tale, not he who tells it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

....[Em writes]...

> There's a part of me that knows you're right. There's also a part

of me

> that just feels used and discouraged.

I think that's why I've found it so important to work through those

feelings of being " used " or anything like that. Really, at the root

of it is a belief that we can project into the future. Thus, we set

up a series of expectations... and when those expectations aren't met,

we get resentful. While others have moved on and are focussed

elsewhere, we stay " stuck " ... and that's a cruddy feeling to have!

> And I don't want that

> to end, and yet it seems that it pretty much has. Friendships are

work --

> you can let them drift and they may end on their own, but if you

care, you

> pursue it.

Aaah. Ok. Here's where we have a fundamental disagreement. (Which

is ok... ) I don't believe that friendships should be " work " . I

beleive they should happen naturally and when it's time for them to

end, it's time for them to end. Ideally, they end on a good note but

sometimes they don't.

I know, for me, I get scared when someone has expectations of me in

terms of availability or longevity. I know I am incapable of

promising anyone that I will " always " be there or " always " be

available. My life is a changing, ever-flowing process and I can't

even say where I'll be two weeks from now. I need that freedom and

I need for my friends to be ok with that. I won't " work " to maintain

it. I will be who I am. I will always be honest. I will be as

compassionate and loving as I know how to be. I will not " work. "

> circumstances change. I only wish that these friendships could

weather

> those changes without dissipating.

Or maybe at least that there's some sort of closure? Sometimes it's

the wondering that is the hardest part. In cases like that, I've been

known to ask directly.

--dc

[Guest guest]

....[Em writes]...

> There's a part of me that knows you're right. There's also a part

of me

> that just feels used and discouraged.

I think that's why I've found it so important to work through those

feelings of being " used " or anything like that. Really, at the root

of it is a belief that we can project into the future. Thus, we set

up a series of expectations... and when those expectations aren't met,

we get resentful. While others have moved on and are focussed

elsewhere, we stay " stuck " ... and that's a cruddy feeling to have!

> And I don't want that

> to end, and yet it seems that it pretty much has. Friendships are

work --

> you can let them drift and they may end on their own, but if you

care, you

> pursue it.

Aaah. Ok. Here's where we have a fundamental disagreement. (Which

is ok... ) I don't believe that friendships should be " work " . I

beleive they should happen naturally and when it's time for them to

end, it's time for them to end. Ideally, they end on a good note but

sometimes they don't.

I know, for me, I get scared when someone has expectations of me in

terms of availability or longevity. I know I am incapable of

promising anyone that I will " always " be there or " always " be

available. My life is a changing, ever-flowing process and I can't

even say where I'll be two weeks from now. I need that freedom and

I need for my friends to be ok with that. I won't " work " to maintain

it. I will be who I am. I will always be honest. I will be as

compassionate and loving as I know how to be. I will not " work. "

> circumstances change. I only wish that these friendships could

weather

> those changes without dissipating.

Or maybe at least that there's some sort of closure? Sometimes it's

the wondering that is the hardest part. In cases like that, I've been

known to ask directly.

--dc

[Guest guest]

....[Em writes]...

> There's a part of me that knows you're right. There's also a part

of me

> that just feels used and discouraged.

I think that's why I've found it so important to work through those

feelings of being " used " or anything like that. Really, at the root

of it is a belief that we can project into the future. Thus, we set

up a series of expectations... and when those expectations aren't met,

we get resentful. While others have moved on and are focussed

elsewhere, we stay " stuck " ... and that's a cruddy feeling to have!

> And I don't want that

> to end, and yet it seems that it pretty much has. Friendships are

work --

> you can let them drift and they may end on their own, but if you

care, you

> pursue it.

Aaah. Ok. Here's where we have a fundamental disagreement. (Which

is ok... ) I don't believe that friendships should be " work " . I

beleive they should happen naturally and when it's time for them to

end, it's time for them to end. Ideally, they end on a good note but

sometimes they don't.

I know, for me, I get scared when someone has expectations of me in

terms of availability or longevity. I know I am incapable of

promising anyone that I will " always " be there or " always " be

available. My life is a changing, ever-flowing process and I can't

even say where I'll be two weeks from now. I need that freedom and

I need for my friends to be ok with that. I won't " work " to maintain

it. I will be who I am. I will always be honest. I will be as

compassionate and loving as I know how to be. I will not " work. "

> circumstances change. I only wish that these friendships could

weather

> those changes without dissipating.

Or maybe at least that there's some sort of closure? Sometimes it's

the wondering that is the hardest part. In cases like that, I've been

known to ask directly.

--dc

[Guest guest]

At 11:56 AM 10/02/2001 -0700, dc bradshaw wrote:

>I think that's why I've found it so important to work through those

>feelings of being " used " or anything like that. Really, at the root

>of it is a belief that we can project into the future. Thus, we set

>up a series of expectations... and when those expectations aren't met, we

>get resentful. While others have moved on and are focussed

>elsewhere, we stay " stuck " ... and that's a cruddy feeling to have!

Somehow I regret posting this originally now, but I'll say this: Our

philosophies differ. I think it's okay to expect some things from

people. I don't think it's right to expect it 100%, 24/7, all the

time. But from a friend, yes, if I reach out to that person and he or she

doesn't reach back, it hurts. It's all right for people to move

on. Happens all the time. I don't know if I'm " stuck, " or just missing

people I used to be good friends with. It sounds as if you don't think I

should miss them. I don't understand that. New people are great -- but

when someone I've talked with and cried with and laughed with and spent

quality time with just disappears -- I miss them.

I'll keep this sort of thing to myself from now on. Thanks anyway.

Em

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is the tale, not he who tells it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

....[Em wrote]...

> Somehow I regret posting this originally now, but I'll say this: Our

> philosophies differ.

Yes. That's possible...but that's why it's so cool that there are 300

other people on this list, all of whom will have different things to

say, too.

> It sounds as if you don't think I

> should miss them. I don't understand that.

Well, it's really not my place to have an opinion about what you

" should " be doing/feeling/thinking or otherwise. All I can really do

is share my experience with you and if you find something of value

there, that's great. If you don't, that's ok, too.

> when someone I've talked with and cried with and laughed with and

spent

> quality time with just disappears -- I miss them.

I understand that and that's an entirely different issue. Of

course you are going to miss them.

> I'll keep this sort of thing to myself from now on. Thanks anyway.

That sounds kind of like, " if you don't give me what I want, then I

will just shut down. " I certainly hope you don't make that choice.

There are lots of other people on this list, too, and they might have

entirely different input.

--dc

[Guest guest]

janissa@... wrote:

> I don't know what to do right now. It seems as if all of the people I've

> gotten close to over the years on the internet, have disappeared. They

> mean well, but maybe they've gotten tired of the fact that I don't write

> like I used to, or something? I just never hear back from anyone

> anymore. I wrote to a private list that only has about 8 members, we're

> all good friends, and not a single one replied.

I think this is where my saying I try hard to keep in mind, " how other

people act has more to do with them, then with you " comes in mind.

However, when I'm upset, this saying doesn't sound very good to me. I

was ranting about this the other day. I think part of it is our

" lifestyle " nowadays. In our parents day, it was much more common for

the wife not to work. She could get all of the housework done during

the week, and was able to make plans with other families/couples. These

days, usually both adults work, they struggle to to get through chores

after work and on the weekends, and then have to fit (possibly) raising

kids in there. We simply have less time nowadays to be friends.

I'm a procrastinator, and I know a lot of my friends are too. You

think, oh, I'll call tomorrow, and tomorrow comes and you think, oh,

I'll call tomorrow. In the mean time, days turn into weeks, and weeks

into months. I think that is part of things too.

Also, people tend to gravitate towards similar people. Couples tend to

want to hang out with couples, people with small kids want other

families with small kids, etc. I know, I've had friends/email buddies

that have slowly drifted away as they started having kids/another kid.

I've got one friend who has two kids. Now that she's had the second

one, she is no longer the emailer she was. She'll email for several

days in a row, and then a week or two might go by before I hear from her

again.

>

> All I can think is that it's hard to be friends with someone who's sick. I

> hope I don't just sit around and complain 24/7 about it -- I know I don't

> -- but it's all I can think of.

I'm sure that some people have left due to uncomfortableness with your

illness, but I'm also think most of them have fallen away due to other

reasons. You not writing as much has probably not helped. I know, I'm

debating whether to continue friendship with people from whom I get

nothing. It isn't a short term thing, this has gone on for a long, long

time. I keep thinking of those stories of people who say " oh, I was so

upset, I couldn't write, but Jane Doe's letters kept me going. " On the

other hand, it has gotten wearisome to keep putting out and getting

nothing in return.

Exactly a year ago one of these people

> came to stay with me for a week, and I babied her the whole time. She was

> so depressed, so discouraged, and I did everything in my power to make her

> feel better -- she even said as much. Now? Well, she got a new job and

> bought a house, and I haven't heard from her in months.

I get you here, it's kind of a " well, what about me? " thing. I agree

with you here. I get tired of being the only one (or so it feels) to

think of the other person. For example, someone that I use to eat lunch

with every day, has sent me one email since I had to leave work sick,

she never has called or sent anything asking me how I am. I found out

that in the last couple of weeks, one of her parents became very ill. I

feel compelled to check on her father, yet I'm still going " how come I'm

the only one extending my hand? "

> It just feels as if I am maybe a burden to these people. I met them all

> because of my fiction writing, and at the moment I'm not writing -- is that

> friendship so fragile that the minute I stop doing what drew us together

> initially, they just split?

It is possible that they don't feel they have much in common with you

any more.

> Do I have any right to

> expect them to do something like that for me? Or am I expecting too

> much? I don't want chocolates or gifts, I just want my friends back. But

> I don't know where they went, or why. I just know they're gone.

Sometimes, one person is better at arranging, doing things, that person

is the only one to think of these things. It still sucks though. I

agree, I went through this very recently. I'm not asking for get

togethers once a week or letters once a month, just a letter once a year

would work. I had a friend one time who would call me up at all times

during the night, depressed over things with her boyfriend (she worked

nights). I always listened and gave her advice. One time, I was really

upset, and wanted to call her. I even waited until about 10 minutes

before I knew she'd be getting up for work, to call. She talked for

about 2 minutes and then said she would talk to me later, she didn't

want to wake the boyfriend up. I was really hurt, but thought about

it. She was a good friend out side of this flaw, so I decided I would

remain friends with her, knowing she wasn't going to be someone I could

call at any hour of the night.

>

> My friends are all I got. If they're gone, I really feel as if I am

> completely on my own. I feel worthless. Or maybe I drove them away? I

> just don't know.

You didn't drive them away, they went on their own. It probably has

little to do with you, and more to do with them. It still is hard when

it happens.

Darcy

[Guest guest]

janissa@... wrote:

> I don't know what to do right now. It seems as if all of the people I've

> gotten close to over the years on the internet, have disappeared. They

> mean well, but maybe they've gotten tired of the fact that I don't write

> like I used to, or something? I just never hear back from anyone

> anymore. I wrote to a private list that only has about 8 members, we're

> all good friends, and not a single one replied.

I think this is where my saying I try hard to keep in mind, " how other

people act has more to do with them, then with you " comes in mind.

However, when I'm upset, this saying doesn't sound very good to me. I

was ranting about this the other day. I think part of it is our

" lifestyle " nowadays. In our parents day, it was much more common for

the wife not to work. She could get all of the housework done during

the week, and was able to make plans with other families/couples. These

days, usually both adults work, they struggle to to get through chores

after work and on the weekends, and then have to fit (possibly) raising

kids in there. We simply have less time nowadays to be friends.

I'm a procrastinator, and I know a lot of my friends are too. You

think, oh, I'll call tomorrow, and tomorrow comes and you think, oh,

I'll call tomorrow. In the mean time, days turn into weeks, and weeks

into months. I think that is part of things too.

Also, people tend to gravitate towards similar people. Couples tend to

want to hang out with couples, people with small kids want other

families with small kids, etc. I know, I've had friends/email buddies

that have slowly drifted away as they started having kids/another kid.

I've got one friend who has two kids. Now that she's had the second

one, she is no longer the emailer she was. She'll email for several

days in a row, and then a week or two might go by before I hear from her

again.

>

> All I can think is that it's hard to be friends with someone who's sick. I

> hope I don't just sit around and complain 24/7 about it -- I know I don't

> -- but it's all I can think of.

I'm sure that some people have left due to uncomfortableness with your

illness, but I'm also think most of them have fallen away due to other

reasons. You not writing as much has probably not helped. I know, I'm

debating whether to continue friendship with people from whom I get

nothing. It isn't a short term thing, this has gone on for a long, long

time. I keep thinking of those stories of people who say " oh, I was so

upset, I couldn't write, but Jane Doe's letters kept me going. " On the

other hand, it has gotten wearisome to keep putting out and getting

nothing in return.

Exactly a year ago one of these people

> came to stay with me for a week, and I babied her the whole time. She was

> so depressed, so discouraged, and I did everything in my power to make her

> feel better -- she even said as much. Now? Well, she got a new job and

> bought a house, and I haven't heard from her in months.

I get you here, it's kind of a " well, what about me? " thing. I agree

with you here. I get tired of being the only one (or so it feels) to

think of the other person. For example, someone that I use to eat lunch

with every day, has sent me one email since I had to leave work sick,

she never has called or sent anything asking me how I am. I found out

that in the last couple of weeks, one of her parents became very ill. I

feel compelled to check on her father, yet I'm still going " how come I'm

the only one extending my hand? "

> It just feels as if I am maybe a burden to these people. I met them all

> because of my fiction writing, and at the moment I'm not writing -- is that

> friendship so fragile that the minute I stop doing what drew us together

> initially, they just split?

It is possible that they don't feel they have much in common with you

any more.

> Do I have any right to

> expect them to do something like that for me? Or am I expecting too

> much? I don't want chocolates or gifts, I just want my friends back. But

> I don't know where they went, or why. I just know they're gone.

Sometimes, one person is better at arranging, doing things, that person

is the only one to think of these things. It still sucks though. I

agree, I went through this very recently. I'm not asking for get

togethers once a week or letters once a month, just a letter once a year

would work. I had a friend one time who would call me up at all times

during the night, depressed over things with her boyfriend (she worked

nights). I always listened and gave her advice. One time, I was really

upset, and wanted to call her. I even waited until about 10 minutes

before I knew she'd be getting up for work, to call. She talked for

about 2 minutes and then said she would talk to me later, she didn't

want to wake the boyfriend up. I was really hurt, but thought about

it. She was a good friend out side of this flaw, so I decided I would

remain friends with her, knowing she wasn't going to be someone I could

call at any hour of the night.

>

> My friends are all I got. If they're gone, I really feel as if I am

> completely on my own. I feel worthless. Or maybe I drove them away? I

> just don't know.

You didn't drive them away, they went on their own. It probably has

little to do with you, and more to do with them. It still is hard when

it happens.

Darcy

[Guest guest]

janissa@... wrote:

> I don't know what to do right now. It seems as if all of the people I've

> gotten close to over the years on the internet, have disappeared. They

> mean well, but maybe they've gotten tired of the fact that I don't write

> like I used to, or something? I just never hear back from anyone

> anymore. I wrote to a private list that only has about 8 members, we're

> all good friends, and not a single one replied.

I think this is where my saying I try hard to keep in mind, " how other

people act has more to do with them, then with you " comes in mind.

However, when I'm upset, this saying doesn't sound very good to me. I

was ranting about this the other day. I think part of it is our

" lifestyle " nowadays. In our parents day, it was much more common for

the wife not to work. She could get all of the housework done during

the week, and was able to make plans with other families/couples. These

days, usually both adults work, they struggle to to get through chores

after work and on the weekends, and then have to fit (possibly) raising

kids in there. We simply have less time nowadays to be friends.

I'm a procrastinator, and I know a lot of my friends are too. You

think, oh, I'll call tomorrow, and tomorrow comes and you think, oh,

I'll call tomorrow. In the mean time, days turn into weeks, and weeks

into months. I think that is part of things too.

Also, people tend to gravitate towards similar people. Couples tend to

want to hang out with couples, people with small kids want other

families with small kids, etc. I know, I've had friends/email buddies

that have slowly drifted away as they started having kids/another kid.

I've got one friend who has two kids. Now that she's had the second

one, she is no longer the emailer she was. She'll email for several

days in a row, and then a week or two might go by before I hear from her

again.

>

> All I can think is that it's hard to be friends with someone who's sick. I

> hope I don't just sit around and complain 24/7 about it -- I know I don't

> -- but it's all I can think of.

I'm sure that some people have left due to uncomfortableness with your

illness, but I'm also think most of them have fallen away due to other

reasons. You not writing as much has probably not helped. I know, I'm

debating whether to continue friendship with people from whom I get

nothing. It isn't a short term thing, this has gone on for a long, long

time. I keep thinking of those stories of people who say " oh, I was so

upset, I couldn't write, but Jane Doe's letters kept me going. " On the

other hand, it has gotten wearisome to keep putting out and getting

nothing in return.

Exactly a year ago one of these people

> came to stay with me for a week, and I babied her the whole time. She was

> so depressed, so discouraged, and I did everything in my power to make her

> feel better -- she even said as much. Now? Well, she got a new job and

> bought a house, and I haven't heard from her in months.

I get you here, it's kind of a " well, what about me? " thing. I agree

with you here. I get tired of being the only one (or so it feels) to

think of the other person. For example, someone that I use to eat lunch

with every day, has sent me one email since I had to leave work sick,

she never has called or sent anything asking me how I am. I found out

that in the last couple of weeks, one of her parents became very ill. I

feel compelled to check on her father, yet I'm still going " how come I'm

the only one extending my hand? "

> It just feels as if I am maybe a burden to these people. I met them all

> because of my fiction writing, and at the moment I'm not writing -- is that

> friendship so fragile that the minute I stop doing what drew us together

> initially, they just split?

It is possible that they don't feel they have much in common with you

any more.

> Do I have any right to

> expect them to do something like that for me? Or am I expecting too

> much? I don't want chocolates or gifts, I just want my friends back. But

> I don't know where they went, or why. I just know they're gone.

Sometimes, one person is better at arranging, doing things, that person

is the only one to think of these things. It still sucks though. I

agree, I went through this very recently. I'm not asking for get

togethers once a week or letters once a month, just a letter once a year

would work. I had a friend one time who would call me up at all times

during the night, depressed over things with her boyfriend (she worked

nights). I always listened and gave her advice. One time, I was really

upset, and wanted to call her. I even waited until about 10 minutes

before I knew she'd be getting up for work, to call. She talked for

about 2 minutes and then said she would talk to me later, she didn't

want to wake the boyfriend up. I was really hurt, but thought about

it. She was a good friend out side of this flaw, so I decided I would

remain friends with her, knowing she wasn't going to be someone I could

call at any hour of the night.

>

> My friends are all I got. If they're gone, I really feel as if I am

> completely on my own. I feel worthless. Or maybe I drove them away? I

> just don't know.

You didn't drive them away, they went on their own. It probably has

little to do with you, and more to do with them. It still is hard when

it happens.

Darcy

[Guest guest]

dc bradshaw wrote:

> I read your entire note and have a thought or two. I've had the same

> experience. It's not necessarily because I am sick. What I came to

> understand is that people come and go from our lives for a variety of

> reasons. We meet up and become friends during a particular time when

> it's appropriate and we have something to share... and then we move

> on. We make new friends and the whole cycle starts again.

I think this can be a good attitude, and it probably applies to the vast

majority of your friends. I learned this in the Navy, but you also want

a few friends that are going to be around long term. I have one friend

who has been around since '78. If I need her for anything, I just have

to call. You do want a couple of those in your life, it doesn't have to

happen with everyone in your life.

Darcy

[Guest guest]

dc bradshaw wrote:

> I read your entire note and have a thought or two. I've had the same

> experience. It's not necessarily because I am sick. What I came to

> understand is that people come and go from our lives for a variety of

> reasons. We meet up and become friends during a particular time when

> it's appropriate and we have something to share... and then we move

> on. We make new friends and the whole cycle starts again.

I think this can be a good attitude, and it probably applies to the vast

majority of your friends. I learned this in the Navy, but you also want

a few friends that are going to be around long term. I have one friend

who has been around since '78. If I need her for anything, I just have

to call. You do want a couple of those in your life, it doesn't have to

happen with everyone in your life.

Darcy

[Guest guest]

dc bradshaw wrote:

> I read your entire note and have a thought or two. I've had the same

> experience. It's not necessarily because I am sick. What I came to

> understand is that people come and go from our lives for a variety of

> reasons. We meet up and become friends during a particular time when

> it's appropriate and we have something to share... and then we move

> on. We make new friends and the whole cycle starts again.

I think this can be a good attitude, and it probably applies to the vast

majority of your friends. I learned this in the Navy, but you also want

a few friends that are going to be around long term. I have one friend

who has been around since '78. If I need her for anything, I just have

to call. You do want a couple of those in your life, it doesn't have to

happen with everyone in your life.

Darcy

[Guest guest]

janissa@... wrote:

> Somehow I regret posting this originally now, but I'll say this: Our

> philosophies differ.

Oh, don't regret it, I've enjoyed it! It's helped to let me know I'm

not the only one going through this. It's also helped to remind me,

sometimes, you just need to let people go, they're done being in your

life and that's ok.

I think it's okay to expect some things from

> people. I don't think it's right to expect it 100%, 24/7, all the

> time. But from a friend, yes, if I reach out to that person and he or she

> doesn't reach back, it hurts.

I agree, it's all right to expect some things from people. The trick is

to figure out it's a " legitimate " expectation or your expectation. What

I mean by this is, I had a friend who expected that, as a friend, I

should be willing to talk to her several times a week, for an hour each

time. I just couldn't spend this much time talking to her. She had a

legitimate expectation in that, as a friend, I should be willing to talk

to her. However, it was her values of what a friendship should be that

dictated how I should act (call several times a week and talk for an

hour) rather than a more realistic expectation. I agree, when you reach

out to someone and that person ignores you, it does hurt.

> I don't understand that. New people are great -- but

> when someone I've talked with and cried with and laughed with and spent

> quality time with just disappears -- I miss them.

>

> I'll keep this sort of thing to myself from now on. Thanks anyway.

Don't keep it to yourself, please! I understand how it hurts when

people who have been your friends, suddenly seem to abandon you. It

almost seems as if they're saying your friendship is no longer worth

having, and that does hurt. I don't have much in the way of solutions,

people are so busy these days. Please continue to vent.

hugs

Darcy

[Guest guest]

janissa@... wrote:

> Somehow I regret posting this originally now, but I'll say this: Our

> philosophies differ.

Oh, don't regret it, I've enjoyed it! It's helped to let me know I'm

not the only one going through this. It's also helped to remind me,

sometimes, you just need to let people go, they're done being in your

life and that's ok.

I think it's okay to expect some things from

> people. I don't think it's right to expect it 100%, 24/7, all the

> time. But from a friend, yes, if I reach out to that person and he or she

> doesn't reach back, it hurts.

I agree, it's all right to expect some things from people. The trick is

to figure out it's a " legitimate " expectation or your expectation. What

I mean by this is, I had a friend who expected that, as a friend, I

should be willing to talk to her several times a week, for an hour each

time. I just couldn't spend this much time talking to her. She had a

legitimate expectation in that, as a friend, I should be willing to talk

to her. However, it was her values of what a friendship should be that

dictated how I should act (call several times a week and talk for an

hour) rather than a more realistic expectation. I agree, when you reach

out to someone and that person ignores you, it does hurt.

> I don't understand that. New people are great -- but

> when someone I've talked with and cried with and laughed with and spent

> quality time with just disappears -- I miss them.

>

> I'll keep this sort of thing to myself from now on. Thanks anyway.

Don't keep it to yourself, please! I understand how it hurts when

people who have been your friends, suddenly seem to abandon you. It

almost seems as if they're saying your friendship is no longer worth

having, and that does hurt. I don't have much in the way of solutions,

people are so busy these days. Please continue to vent.

hugs

Darcy

[Guest guest]

dc bradshaw wrote:

> Aaah. Ok. Here's where we have a fundamental disagreement. (Which

> is ok... ) I don't believe that friendships should be " work " . I

> beleive they should happen naturally and when it's time for them to

> end, it's time for them to end. Ideally, they end on a good note but

> sometimes they don't.

I guess it really depends on what you define as " work " . I've heard

marriage needs to be worked at in order for them to succeed. I've heard

people say they had to " work " at it, and others who said it wasn't work

at all. I don't feel like I've " worked " at mine, but I have. You have

to spend time and " effort " to make sure you are taking care of the other

person's needs and emotions as well as yourself. You can do what you

want, and " drift " away and the marriage ends or you can spend some time

making sure the other person is getting what they need, and the marriage

works. To me, the same thing occurs in a friendship in a lesser degree

as well. If you have to sit there and go " darn, I need to call, Pat

again, but I don't want to do it " , it's going to seem like work and you

aren't going to want to do it. If you sit there and say " oh, I'd really

like to have a nice conversations, when do I have time to call? " then it

isn't going to seem like work, but in both cases, you are " working " to

find time. One way is more pleasant though.

>

> I know, for me, I get scared when someone has expectations of me in

> terms of availability or longevity. I know I am incapable of

> promising anyone that I will " always " be there or " always " be

> available. My life is a changing, ever-flowing process and I can't

> even say where I'll be two weeks from now.

ah ha! A free spirit! We'll be reaching for our rain boots while

you're

already out dancing in the rain!

<g>

Darcy

[Guest guest]

dc bradshaw wrote:

> Aaah. Ok. Here's where we have a fundamental disagreement. (Which

> is ok... ) I don't believe that friendships should be " work " . I

> beleive they should happen naturally and when it's time for them to

> end, it's time for them to end. Ideally, they end on a good note but

> sometimes they don't.

I guess it really depends on what you define as " work " . I've heard

marriage needs to be worked at in order for them to succeed. I've heard

people say they had to " work " at it, and others who said it wasn't work

at all. I don't feel like I've " worked " at mine, but I have. You have

to spend time and " effort " to make sure you are taking care of the other

person's needs and emotions as well as yourself. You can do what you

want, and " drift " away and the marriage ends or you can spend some time

making sure the other person is getting what they need, and the marriage

works. To me, the same thing occurs in a friendship in a lesser degree

as well. If you have to sit there and go " darn, I need to call, Pat

again, but I don't want to do it " , it's going to seem like work and you

aren't going to want to do it. If you sit there and say " oh, I'd really

like to have a nice conversations, when do I have time to call? " then it

isn't going to seem like work, but in both cases, you are " working " to

find time. One way is more pleasant though.

>

> I know, for me, I get scared when someone has expectations of me in

> terms of availability or longevity. I know I am incapable of

> promising anyone that I will " always " be there or " always " be

> available. My life is a changing, ever-flowing process and I can't

> even say where I'll be two weeks from now.

ah ha! A free spirit! We'll be reaching for our rain boots while

you're

already out dancing in the rain!

<g>

Darcy