Guest guest Posted February 27, 2001 Report Share Posted February 27, 2001 > ----- > To Pete (watts_pete@h...): No, now I'm > admitting that YOU'RE wrong. Directly quoting the MM > website stating that abstinence is more advisable than > moderation when taking " medications that interact with > alcohol " constitutes giving out " false info " ?! Again, WASNT WHAT YOU FIRST SAID YOU A**HOLE. You said that MM membership wasnt possible for someone who took took psych meds! THAT is misinformation. Also, I DONT GIVE A DAMN WHAT YOU CLAIM HAPPENS TO YOU IF YOU DRINK WITH MEDS. I also dont care if you claim to speak for the whole friggin' American medical profession, the official advice to patients on Prozac DOES NOT SAY YOU CANNOT DRINK. One stepper habit you have manifestly not given up is persitent lying and restatemtnet of falsehoods despite having had them demonstrated as false! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2001 Report Share Posted February 27, 2001 > ----- > To Pete (watts_pete@h...): No, now I'm > admitting that YOU'RE wrong. Directly quoting the MM > website stating that abstinence is more advisable than > moderation when taking " medications that interact with > alcohol " constitutes giving out " false info " ?! Again, WASNT WHAT YOU FIRST SAID YOU A**HOLE. You said that MM membership wasnt possible for someone who took took psych meds! THAT is misinformation. Also, I DONT GIVE A DAMN WHAT YOU CLAIM HAPPENS TO YOU IF YOU DRINK WITH MEDS. I also dont care if you claim to speak for the whole friggin' American medical profession, the official advice to patients on Prozac DOES NOT SAY YOU CANNOT DRINK. One stepper habit you have manifestly not given up is persitent lying and restatemtnet of falsehoods despite having had them demonstrated as false! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2001 Report Share Posted February 27, 2001 > AA HAS indeed helped many of you stay sober! Hanging > on to all of that pain, guilt, anger, bitterness, and > resentment against AA surely creates and/or > perpetuates such a desire to " prove AA wrong " that > you'll even stay away from a drink (or drunkeness for > those moderating) in order to do it! Hey, as I said > in that now infamous letter to Matt--whatever works! > (At least I get PAID by the world-wide conspiracy to > be an AA troll! I'll be rich because now I can twist > words around like a good little AA and say that AA > kept all of you sober! We're in the money...We're in > the money...) This is the first time, I think, that I've replied to you. Unfortunately, you probably won't see it because you've unsubscribed. It's not surprising that reforming AA vs. getting rid of AA is an ongoing rift within our 12 step free community. It's like abstinence vs. moderation, there is room for reasonable people to disagree. You're wrong to assume that you know what AA has done for or to all the 300+ people on this list. Most of us must lurk, most of the time, because I can't think of even 100 regular posters. So you have inadequate evidence upon which to base your statement that AA has helped us in any way at all. It's equally possible that the majority of people here in 12sf, and the majority of the entire population of people who have ever attended AA, have been hideously harmed by the 12 steps. Given the suicides, broken families, and other behavior that goes on within the wonderful organization of AA, I think I have as much evidence to support the latter assumption, as you have to support your assumption. Also, you accuse some of us of " Hanging on to all of that pain, guilt, anger, bitterness, and resentment against AA. " Do you sincerely not hear the sarcastic anger in your own post? You seem to feel, in defending AA, that you have the moral high ground. That allows you to become enraged, when you see what you interpret as anger in someone who disagrees with you. This is a pet peeve of mine, and it doesn't just happen here. It's pure hypocrisy, based on your assumption above that AA helps most people. Since I do not share your assumption (I did when I came here but I see more clearly now), I am in the line of fire for your rage. I agree that things are said in anger that are later regretted; I have said angry things that I'm not proud to have in the archive of 12sf. But I admit that my anger is the same as anyone else's: it's an emotion. It's uncomfortable to be around conflict, harmony is more pleasant. But conflict exists. Anger exists. I'm not as angry as I used to be, but I still regard AA and its impact on public policy as ominous. And we are here to talk about that. My bottom line for this list is that I want it to be as inclusive as possible. But we are like any large group of people: disagreement exists here. And we are not AA, so we don't have to pretend to feel serene when we're really angry. We don't have to pretend to laugh at stupid AA slogans and jokes that aren't funny. We don't have to pretend to agree when we disagree. It's really better that way, although it can get very intense. This is getting long so I should end it. Good luck with your new list, we need more places for people to talk about their AA experience. As an fyi, there's another list, an offshoot of this one, that I think is specifically for people who were indoctrinated into AA at an early age--Pete, do you know what list I'm talking about? anyone else here? Hopefully, with more places to discuss AA critically, more people will feel comfortable sharing their experiences. That's where change comes from, in my opinion. judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2001 Report Share Posted February 27, 2001 > AA HAS indeed helped many of you stay sober! Hanging > on to all of that pain, guilt, anger, bitterness, and > resentment against AA surely creates and/or > perpetuates such a desire to " prove AA wrong " that > you'll even stay away from a drink (or drunkeness for > those moderating) in order to do it! Hey, as I said > in that now infamous letter to Matt--whatever works! > (At least I get PAID by the world-wide conspiracy to > be an AA troll! I'll be rich because now I can twist > words around like a good little AA and say that AA > kept all of you sober! We're in the money...We're in > the money...) This is the first time, I think, that I've replied to you. Unfortunately, you probably won't see it because you've unsubscribed. It's not surprising that reforming AA vs. getting rid of AA is an ongoing rift within our 12 step free community. It's like abstinence vs. moderation, there is room for reasonable people to disagree. You're wrong to assume that you know what AA has done for or to all the 300+ people on this list. Most of us must lurk, most of the time, because I can't think of even 100 regular posters. So you have inadequate evidence upon which to base your statement that AA has helped us in any way at all. It's equally possible that the majority of people here in 12sf, and the majority of the entire population of people who have ever attended AA, have been hideously harmed by the 12 steps. Given the suicides, broken families, and other behavior that goes on within the wonderful organization of AA, I think I have as much evidence to support the latter assumption, as you have to support your assumption. Also, you accuse some of us of " Hanging on to all of that pain, guilt, anger, bitterness, and resentment against AA. " Do you sincerely not hear the sarcastic anger in your own post? You seem to feel, in defending AA, that you have the moral high ground. That allows you to become enraged, when you see what you interpret as anger in someone who disagrees with you. This is a pet peeve of mine, and it doesn't just happen here. It's pure hypocrisy, based on your assumption above that AA helps most people. Since I do not share your assumption (I did when I came here but I see more clearly now), I am in the line of fire for your rage. I agree that things are said in anger that are later regretted; I have said angry things that I'm not proud to have in the archive of 12sf. But I admit that my anger is the same as anyone else's: it's an emotion. It's uncomfortable to be around conflict, harmony is more pleasant. But conflict exists. Anger exists. I'm not as angry as I used to be, but I still regard AA and its impact on public policy as ominous. And we are here to talk about that. My bottom line for this list is that I want it to be as inclusive as possible. But we are like any large group of people: disagreement exists here. And we are not AA, so we don't have to pretend to feel serene when we're really angry. We don't have to pretend to laugh at stupid AA slogans and jokes that aren't funny. We don't have to pretend to agree when we disagree. It's really better that way, although it can get very intense. This is getting long so I should end it. Good luck with your new list, we need more places for people to talk about their AA experience. As an fyi, there's another list, an offshoot of this one, that I think is specifically for people who were indoctrinated into AA at an early age--Pete, do you know what list I'm talking about? anyone else here? Hopefully, with more places to discuss AA critically, more people will feel comfortable sharing their experiences. That's where change comes from, in my opinion. judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2001 Report Share Posted February 27, 2001 > AA HAS indeed helped many of you stay sober! Hanging > on to all of that pain, guilt, anger, bitterness, and > resentment against AA surely creates and/or > perpetuates such a desire to " prove AA wrong " that > you'll even stay away from a drink (or drunkeness for > those moderating) in order to do it! Hey, as I said > in that now infamous letter to Matt--whatever works! > (At least I get PAID by the world-wide conspiracy to > be an AA troll! I'll be rich because now I can twist > words around like a good little AA and say that AA > kept all of you sober! We're in the money...We're in > the money...) This is the first time, I think, that I've replied to you. Unfortunately, you probably won't see it because you've unsubscribed. It's not surprising that reforming AA vs. getting rid of AA is an ongoing rift within our 12 step free community. It's like abstinence vs. moderation, there is room for reasonable people to disagree. You're wrong to assume that you know what AA has done for or to all the 300+ people on this list. Most of us must lurk, most of the time, because I can't think of even 100 regular posters. So you have inadequate evidence upon which to base your statement that AA has helped us in any way at all. It's equally possible that the majority of people here in 12sf, and the majority of the entire population of people who have ever attended AA, have been hideously harmed by the 12 steps. Given the suicides, broken families, and other behavior that goes on within the wonderful organization of AA, I think I have as much evidence to support the latter assumption, as you have to support your assumption. Also, you accuse some of us of " Hanging on to all of that pain, guilt, anger, bitterness, and resentment against AA. " Do you sincerely not hear the sarcastic anger in your own post? You seem to feel, in defending AA, that you have the moral high ground. That allows you to become enraged, when you see what you interpret as anger in someone who disagrees with you. This is a pet peeve of mine, and it doesn't just happen here. It's pure hypocrisy, based on your assumption above that AA helps most people. Since I do not share your assumption (I did when I came here but I see more clearly now), I am in the line of fire for your rage. I agree that things are said in anger that are later regretted; I have said angry things that I'm not proud to have in the archive of 12sf. But I admit that my anger is the same as anyone else's: it's an emotion. It's uncomfortable to be around conflict, harmony is more pleasant. But conflict exists. Anger exists. I'm not as angry as I used to be, but I still regard AA and its impact on public policy as ominous. And we are here to talk about that. My bottom line for this list is that I want it to be as inclusive as possible. But we are like any large group of people: disagreement exists here. And we are not AA, so we don't have to pretend to feel serene when we're really angry. We don't have to pretend to laugh at stupid AA slogans and jokes that aren't funny. We don't have to pretend to agree when we disagree. It's really better that way, although it can get very intense. This is getting long so I should end it. Good luck with your new list, we need more places for people to talk about their AA experience. As an fyi, there's another list, an offshoot of this one, that I think is specifically for people who were indoctrinated into AA at an early age--Pete, do you know what list I'm talking about? anyone else here? Hopefully, with more places to discuss AA critically, more people will feel comfortable sharing their experiences. That's where change comes from, in my opinion. judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2001 Report Share Posted February 27, 2001 Actually, Pete, in US the info with packaging of Prozac does say you cannot drink, last time I looked. Interestingly, I take Effexor. When I first started it the packaging info (pretty much identical to what's in the PDR) said that drinking alcohol with Effexor didn't appear to have any adverse effects. Last time I had the prescription filled, they had changed that. I think you're right about the American alcohol hysteria. Unfortunately, knowing that you're being lied to makes many people cynical, and unlikely to believe even good advice. My doctor has always known at all times what the level of my drinking was. He never considered me an alcoholic. He has prescribed Paxil and Zoloft for me in the past. I now see a psychiatrist for depression medication who also knows about my drinking history and he has never said a word about alcohol interactions with what he prescribes. > > > ----- > > To Pete (watts_pete@h...): No, now I'm > > admitting that YOU'RE wrong. Directly quoting the MM > > website stating that abstinence is more advisable than > > moderation when taking " medications that interact with > > alcohol " constitutes giving out " false info " ?! > > Again, WASNT WHAT YOU FIRST SAID YOU A**HOLE. You said that MM > membership wasnt possible for someone who took took psych meds! THAT > is misinformation. Also, I DONT GIVE A DAMN WHAT YOU CLAIM HAPPENS TO > YOU IF YOU DRINK WITH MEDS. I also dont care if you claim to speak for > the whole friggin' American medical profession, the official advice to > patients on Prozac DOES NOT SAY YOU CANNOT DRINK. One stepper habit > you have manifestly not given up is persitent lying and restatemtnet > of falsehoods despite having had them demonstrated as false! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2001 Report Share Posted February 27, 2001 Actually, Pete, in US the info with packaging of Prozac does say you cannot drink, last time I looked. Interestingly, I take Effexor. When I first started it the packaging info (pretty much identical to what's in the PDR) said that drinking alcohol with Effexor didn't appear to have any adverse effects. Last time I had the prescription filled, they had changed that. I think you're right about the American alcohol hysteria. Unfortunately, knowing that you're being lied to makes many people cynical, and unlikely to believe even good advice. My doctor has always known at all times what the level of my drinking was. He never considered me an alcoholic. He has prescribed Paxil and Zoloft for me in the past. I now see a psychiatrist for depression medication who also knows about my drinking history and he has never said a word about alcohol interactions with what he prescribes. > > > ----- > > To Pete (watts_pete@h...): No, now I'm > > admitting that YOU'RE wrong. Directly quoting the MM > > website stating that abstinence is more advisable than > > moderation when taking " medications that interact with > > alcohol " constitutes giving out " false info " ?! > > Again, WASNT WHAT YOU FIRST SAID YOU A**HOLE. You said that MM > membership wasnt possible for someone who took took psych meds! THAT > is misinformation. Also, I DONT GIVE A DAMN WHAT YOU CLAIM HAPPENS TO > YOU IF YOU DRINK WITH MEDS. I also dont care if you claim to speak for > the whole friggin' American medical profession, the official advice to > patients on Prozac DOES NOT SAY YOU CANNOT DRINK. One stepper habit > you have manifestly not given up is persitent lying and restatemtnet > of falsehoods despite having had them demonstrated as false! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2001 Report Share Posted February 27, 2001 Actually, Pete, in US the info with packaging of Prozac does say you cannot drink, last time I looked. Interestingly, I take Effexor. When I first started it the packaging info (pretty much identical to what's in the PDR) said that drinking alcohol with Effexor didn't appear to have any adverse effects. Last time I had the prescription filled, they had changed that. I think you're right about the American alcohol hysteria. Unfortunately, knowing that you're being lied to makes many people cynical, and unlikely to believe even good advice. My doctor has always known at all times what the level of my drinking was. He never considered me an alcoholic. He has prescribed Paxil and Zoloft for me in the past. I now see a psychiatrist for depression medication who also knows about my drinking history and he has never said a word about alcohol interactions with what he prescribes. > > > ----- > > To Pete (watts_pete@h...): No, now I'm > > admitting that YOU'RE wrong. Directly quoting the MM > > website stating that abstinence is more advisable than > > moderation when taking " medications that interact with > > alcohol " constitutes giving out " false info " ?! > > Again, WASNT WHAT YOU FIRST SAID YOU A**HOLE. You said that MM > membership wasnt possible for someone who took took psych meds! THAT > is misinformation. Also, I DONT GIVE A DAMN WHAT YOU CLAIM HAPPENS TO > YOU IF YOU DRINK WITH MEDS. I also dont care if you claim to speak for > the whole friggin' American medical profession, the official advice to > patients on Prozac DOES NOT SAY YOU CANNOT DRINK. One stepper habit > you have manifestly not given up is persitent lying and restatemtnet > of falsehoods despite having had them demonstrated as false! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2001 Report Share Posted February 27, 2001 I have read a lot of the posts by this person, as well as many of the responses. I guess I am about as anti-AA as anyone, and I, too, found much of what Toth had to say annoying. I just hope that, in leaving this post, he doesn't find himself in another where he might actually be influential rather than just irritating. Perhaps this was actually the safest place for him to be. Joan Parting Glances > ALL O' Y'ALL ALL: After sending a private message to > Gaston, I agree with his decision to unsubscribe and > will be doing the same. Aw, don't cry. > > I am starting my own listserve to do what this one's > guidelines claim but fail to do, provide a forum for > seriously questioning the 12 steps without being > immediately slammed for some character defect or > other, in my case, being (laughable to any, in or out > of " the program, " who know me) an AA troll, Stepper, > baiter, whatever, AS WELL AS for those who, as > aadeprogramming.com puts it, wish to become better and > " more careful consumers " of whatever program(s) or > lack thereof they choose to " work. " It will focus, > unlike this one, on practical, " what works for me, " > information, whether or not such is related to AA or > any other program of recovery, rather than on > statistics, dictionary quotes, and diatribes. > > Any one of you, especially those who remain > unconvinced that I am a Pig from Hell, are welcome to > send me a private e-mail if you want more information > on this yet unnamed listserve (yes, your message will > stay private). This is also, of course, the only way > you'll have any say in what the initial guidelines > are. > > I can't resist saying, before I leave for good, that > as totally pissed off as I know most of you will be > for my saying it: > > AA HAS indeed helped many of you stay sober! Hanging > on to all of that pain, guilt, anger, bitterness, and > resentment against AA surely creates and/or > perpetuates such a desire to " prove AA wrong " that > you'll even stay away from a drink (or drunkeness for > those moderating) in order to do it! Hey, as I said > in that now infamous letter to Matt--whatever works! > (At least I get PAID by the world-wide conspiracy to > be an AA troll! I'll be rich because now I can twist > words around like a good little AA and say that AA > kept all of you sober! We're in the money...We're in > the money...) > > And as I've said 'til I'm blue in the face to no > avail, if that's not an accurate description of you, > then I'm not talking to you, am I?!! However, if the > shoe fits--CRAM IT! > > And since this will be my last missive (again, please > don't cry!) > > Some final responses/answers (snips throughout; if you > don't get the concept/utility of " responding in > complete sentences, " check with a 6th-grade teacher > somewhere): > ----- > To : You essentially asked Gaston whether anyone > on this listserve has crammed their way of getting > sober down anyone's throat as the one true way. Yes, > they have; if you include " just " giving up booze (and > then staying emotionally crippled by one's resentment > against AA). Anyone who can't or won't " just do it " > is simply " weak " according to these people, some of > whom, judging from their defensiveness when even > slightly challenged, must be lying and others of whom > may be sober (abstinent, whatever) but, judging from > their peace of mind, or lack thereof, don't have a > damn thing I want, drunk or sober. As for you > personally, , I must say thank you. You are one > of the few people I've " met " herein who has been truly > helpful. The " something " I said I was going to do > after your appeal to trusting my own mind, which > again, brought tears to my eyes, is above. As you > might imagine, it's been a long time (certainly not in > AA or on this listserve) since anyone, in the context > of discussing recovery, has appealed to my own > integrity and intuitive wisdom. Feel free to send me > a private e-mail for more information if you wish. At > the very least, I think you might find the description > of the list interesting. > ----- > To Pete (watts_pete@...): No, now I'm > admitting that YOU'RE wrong. Directly quoting the MM > website stating that abstinence is more advisable than > moderation when taking " medications that interact with > alcohol " constitutes giving out " false info " ?! The > point is that ALL psychiatric medications (yes, > including but not limited to psychotropics), including > and ESPECIALLY Prozac(!), Zoloft, Paxil, and other > SSRIs, interact (and very poorly) with even moderate > amounts of alcohol. Personal experience at work here: > I drank on Prozac (and not very much) and damn near > died. I was also a stark raving lunatic. (Left > myself open there, didn't I? Go for it. I'm out of > here!) No, such mixing may not always be " dangerous, " > as you put it, in the sense of being deadly, although, > with tranquilizers, for example, it definitely can be, > but in many cases (like mine, with lithium) causes the > medication to lose its effectiveness and/or makes one > SO " drunk " from just one or two beers as to be unable, > for example, to defend oneself as need be or certainly > to operate a motor vehicle. This is according to BOTH > of my M.D.s, my psychiatrist and my family physician, > as well as my best friend, a psychiatric nurse, the > pharmacist at my psychiatrist's clinic, AND the over > 50 psychiatrists for whom I have typed medical > transcriptions for the past 13 years, one of whom used > to be my AA sponsor! If you can't or won't put 2 and > 2 together and see that (as I said) trying to drink > moderately, whether in or out of MM, while continuing > to take psychiatric medication of any kind is > medically inadvisable, then you're just being > deliberately obtuse! You don't have to like it. In > fact, you can get as bent out of shape as you want to > about it. But if you don't believe me, ask your OWN > damn M.D.! And for the record, I did NOT say > abstinence is unacceptable as a goal within MM; I said > that FOR ME(!)(two words to which so many people on > this list seem struck blind), abstinence within MM is > unrealistic given the jealousy I feel when I'm around > successfully moderate drinkers now! How am I going to > feel when I start some serious " fellowship " with them? > ----- > To Dan: Given our previous heated exchanges over the > whole blessed Blessed Be crap, you may find this > difficult to believe but: Give 'em Hell! I HATE it > when anybody tries to cram anything down my throat, > and when they cross the line into harrassment and > blackmail, it's difficult not to want to take the law > into my own hands in retaliation! The letter doesn't > look scary to me, but if these idiots have two brain > cells left to rub together, they'll back off! Yes, > I'll bet they'll have some serious talk about that > " poor soul " they were " only trying to help " who's > " still out there " and needs to " get with the program " > at their next meeting. Well, at least they'll " pray > for you " ! Glad you got it all on tape! > ----- > To : Yes, I suspect there are few of us who > haven't been " raped " by AA. I believe it's a VERY > good analogy. I've had friends and relatives who were > raped for real, and many of them couldn't even stand > to be hugged, or even touched, not even by a doctor, > for awhile. But eventually, probably not with the > rapist(!), they were ready to attempt intimacy with > others again, with not all attempts immediately > " successful. " I believe there are some on this list > who are very much in the hurt and angry stage, unable > and unwilling to take any " help " if it even faintly > reminds them of anything they heard in AA--i.e., their > " rapist. " There are others who have fully " recovered " > and are out there " having sex, " with no strings > attached, and don't understand why others can't " get > over it " (just drop both AA and booze and be > abstinent/moderate all on their own). Then there are > those like me, still suffering from " Stockholm > syndrome " but wanting to eventually become > 12-step-free. AA raped me, but once I got horny > again, I found out AA has a brother, " AA light, " who > has been at least relatively good to me. No, maybe > it's not a " true " alternative, and it is undoubtedly a > dysfunctional relationship that will probably > eventually end very stormily, but it'll do for now, > until someone better comes along. So far, he hasn't. > Yes, I should dump the brother and try living on my > own, but every time I've done so, I've been seduced, > then raped again by big daddy himself--alcohol. I > completely understand the " sour taste " in your > " brain " ! > ----- > To : I'm glad we came to some understanding. > Allergic to " spiritual " terms? Sorry for wearing > cologne to the party. Since you asked a > legitimate question, I'll answer it this one last > time. (I did say all this before when someone else > asked me the VERY same question. And people wonder > why I go " on and on " !): I advised Matt that he might > want to consider staying in AA while exploring other > possibilities because he seemed so torn between having > to " choose. " He had, again, two years of sobriety in > AA. Causal or coincidental? I don't know. I know > that two years is six months more than I've ever had, > and a whole year more than the second most I've ever > had, and that I could not put together even one MONTH > of " clean time, " and certainly not moderation(!), > after six years of trying, BEFORE AA. This list ( " one > more time! " ) is NOT for people " trying to leave " or > " wanting to leave " AA. It is for people " seriously > questioning AA doctrine. " That mean's seriously > questioning, not abandoning. Yes, the name is > " 12-step-free, " but I always saw that as a goal which > only some of us had reached. This dichotomous > either/or, friend/enemy, good/evil attitude toward > anything--up to and including AA, RR, etc., or, for > that matter, alcohol, is beyond simplistic. It's > stupid. That's only directed at you if you want it to > be. I didn't mean it for you, however. As a former > housemate's favorite saying went, " Deal with it as > best you can. " > ----- > To Joan: Though your question was to , I believe > the part you're looking for might be in " Came To > Believe " by Bill W. Once, when I was " back out " and > having a heart-to-heart with someone in " the program " > about coming back in and mentioned other programs > (like RR), I was told that in that book (which I > admittedly haven't read) there is a passage that says > something like unto, " we ought never believe that we > have the final say in any matter, including alcohol. " > >From the gasps and " ninny ninny boo boo " tone of voice > when people first hear of " MODERATION MANAGEMENT??!! " > in AA, it looks like a lot of other people haven't > read " Came To Believe " either, or, of they have, they > follow it as selectively as they do that part in the > Big Book they so love to thump about avoiding > " contempt prior to investigation. " > ----- > Well, athe, athe, athe, athe, a'that's ALL, folks! > I'm honestly going to miss some of you, and I suspect > you know who you are. Feel free to private e-mail me > anytime. For all others, and you know who you are > too, come on, admit it: You're going to miss having > me to scapegoat. Here's mud in your eye! --CTT > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.