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,

You set forth the problems very well. The college programs have been beset

by problems caused by know-nothing administrators and clueless bean counters.

College is a BUSINESS. Forget any notions of lofty educational ideals.

And EMS programs are not money makers as a general rule.

I have some comments below.

Gene

>

>

> Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

> problem with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our

> training faculties? 

>

Yes, of course. Doctors are not expected to be able to practice like a

veteran at the end of medical school. There are internships and residencies.

Again. EMS is a BUSINESS. Whether it's carried on by private providers or

public, business concepts drive it, not healthcare concepts.

When Jane and I and were at Tyler Junior College, our program was

structured to make students street ready. We did this through extensive

clinical and internship training, beginning almost immediately after the

beginning of

the course. We had many battles with those who thought that students should

only go on internships after the course and clinicals are complete.

They're quite wrong. There is much about being a medic that has little or

nothing to do with medical skills. Learning the business aspects, how to check

out the ambulance, where things are kept, what the supplies are, call

response policies, radio procedures----and a zillion other factors can be

learned

before a student is ever ready to touch a patient. Starting internships

early gives the student time to see how calls go, and gradually to learn how to

assist in very important ways such as going and getting things, listening and

watching before being put into a position to have to perform under pressure.

Getting to see how to get stretchers in and out of tight places, tricks of

moving and lifting that are never covered in class, how to talk to patients.

All these things are important. And too many courses do not afford the

student time to learn these things prior to actual patient care beginning.

> In very few education settings do we expect

> those who are completing their formal education to be fully

> functional in there profession? By example when my son finishes his

> degree in business I do not expect him to be hired as the chief

> executive officer for a fortune 500 company, nor does the company

> hiring him expect the same, what they want is someone who understands

> the general concepts of the job and that is will to learn from a more

> seasoned person within there company. For many years within this

> country we had an on the job training process through internships or

> apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose to leave

> them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

> schools.  Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to fill

> a spot in there rotation with out additional experience.

> I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the last

> few days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the

> pitfalls of the education process. I for one do agree that there are

> many ways to improve the education process and improve EMS through

> education. I am all for the meetings that have been discussed here on

> this list. And look for ways to improve this program and myself as an

> instructor. As an EMS educator with approximately 7 years experience

> teaching and the last 5 of those as an assistant program director at

> a Community College, I too am becoming fully frustrated by many thing

> that have been discussed that affect our ability to educate our

> students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive in

> our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text

> that is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the local

> public schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple times

> until they pass, students whose mothers call because I must be

> picking on her child and he really should be given more attempts to

> complete projects and such.

>

There's no question in my mind that students are less prepared today than

they were 15 years ago. My first class at TJC, in 1989 was made up of people

of

the average age of 27. They were well motivated, could read, write, and

spell, and had learned good work habits through several years in the workforce.

We discouraged 18 year olds from coming to the program. Enter greedy

administrators. You WILL enroll as many as possible. Damn the entry

requirements. You WILL graduate them. Then, as you say, the administrators

lambast you

because your students cannot pass the national exams.

This bullshit about testing students and passing exams that the politicians

have imposed upon our public schools has led to a situation where students are

taught nothing except how to pass a specific exam. No wonder they cannot

think critically. High schools are doing a criminal job of education, but

parents and a generation of students who are lazy, spoiled, and arrogant are

also a

part of the problem.

I have actually had the mother of a student, a college student, argue with me

because little Suzy was failing. Little Suzy couldn't spell, read, or

write, was lazy, had no sense of responsibility, didn't understand anything

about

deadlines, couldn't understand why cheating wasn't allowed, and so forth.

> I am frustrated by administrators at my

> school that think I should pass a certain percentage on students that

> start a class and then are upset that the student has trouble passing

> a National Certification Exam. I think you get the idea that we can

> find many things to be frustrated about. But what amazes me the most

> that many employers expect that they should be able to hire a fresh

> graduate and use them as though they have years of experience in all

> aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

> intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do it

> has to be a education problem.

> I know that many students I have will have trouble with written exams

> and those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in an

> actual emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to

> certify a individual that included more than a multi-guess exam. Yes

> we test skills but under very sterile conditions. What I really want

> to know is how did the person perform under the distress of an

> emergency.

>

A big part of the education summit will be examining ways to do just that.

It involves extensive scenario practice with lots of stressful situations

built in, allowing the students to critique themselves and structure their own

improvement strategies, use of problem based learning, group learning, team

learning and practice, and so forth. That's what this summit will be about.

GG

> I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

> instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

> everyone or every program must be completely redone. What I suggest

> is that we try to look at all aspects of the problem and not just

> focus on a small part and hope it will repair all the problems within

> EMS Education at one time.

> Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

> wonderful days at the college and I had much to vent about. I am sure

> that some on this list will disagree with the above statements, and

> if you do and reply I will listen to your thoughts as well on this

> subject, because that is where we learn many things is listening to

> each other.

> Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

> might have.

>    

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

,

You set forth the problems very well. The college programs have been beset

by problems caused by know-nothing administrators and clueless bean counters.

College is a BUSINESS. Forget any notions of lofty educational ideals.

And EMS programs are not money makers as a general rule.

I have some comments below.

Gene

>

>

> Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

> problem with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our

> training faculties? 

>

Yes, of course. Doctors are not expected to be able to practice like a

veteran at the end of medical school. There are internships and residencies.

Again. EMS is a BUSINESS. Whether it's carried on by private providers or

public, business concepts drive it, not healthcare concepts.

When Jane and I and were at Tyler Junior College, our program was

structured to make students street ready. We did this through extensive

clinical and internship training, beginning almost immediately after the

beginning of

the course. We had many battles with those who thought that students should

only go on internships after the course and clinicals are complete.

They're quite wrong. There is much about being a medic that has little or

nothing to do with medical skills. Learning the business aspects, how to check

out the ambulance, where things are kept, what the supplies are, call

response policies, radio procedures----and a zillion other factors can be

learned

before a student is ever ready to touch a patient. Starting internships

early gives the student time to see how calls go, and gradually to learn how to

assist in very important ways such as going and getting things, listening and

watching before being put into a position to have to perform under pressure.

Getting to see how to get stretchers in and out of tight places, tricks of

moving and lifting that are never covered in class, how to talk to patients.

All these things are important. And too many courses do not afford the

student time to learn these things prior to actual patient care beginning.

> In very few education settings do we expect

> those who are completing their formal education to be fully

> functional in there profession? By example when my son finishes his

> degree in business I do not expect him to be hired as the chief

> executive officer for a fortune 500 company, nor does the company

> hiring him expect the same, what they want is someone who understands

> the general concepts of the job and that is will to learn from a more

> seasoned person within there company. For many years within this

> country we had an on the job training process through internships or

> apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose to leave

> them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

> schools.  Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to fill

> a spot in there rotation with out additional experience.

> I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the last

> few days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the

> pitfalls of the education process. I for one do agree that there are

> many ways to improve the education process and improve EMS through

> education. I am all for the meetings that have been discussed here on

> this list. And look for ways to improve this program and myself as an

> instructor. As an EMS educator with approximately 7 years experience

> teaching and the last 5 of those as an assistant program director at

> a Community College, I too am becoming fully frustrated by many thing

> that have been discussed that affect our ability to educate our

> students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive in

> our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text

> that is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the local

> public schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple times

> until they pass, students whose mothers call because I must be

> picking on her child and he really should be given more attempts to

> complete projects and such.

>

There's no question in my mind that students are less prepared today than

they were 15 years ago. My first class at TJC, in 1989 was made up of people

of

the average age of 27. They were well motivated, could read, write, and

spell, and had learned good work habits through several years in the workforce.

We discouraged 18 year olds from coming to the program. Enter greedy

administrators. You WILL enroll as many as possible. Damn the entry

requirements. You WILL graduate them. Then, as you say, the administrators

lambast you

because your students cannot pass the national exams.

This bullshit about testing students and passing exams that the politicians

have imposed upon our public schools has led to a situation where students are

taught nothing except how to pass a specific exam. No wonder they cannot

think critically. High schools are doing a criminal job of education, but

parents and a generation of students who are lazy, spoiled, and arrogant are

also a

part of the problem.

I have actually had the mother of a student, a college student, argue with me

because little Suzy was failing. Little Suzy couldn't spell, read, or

write, was lazy, had no sense of responsibility, didn't understand anything

about

deadlines, couldn't understand why cheating wasn't allowed, and so forth.

> I am frustrated by administrators at my

> school that think I should pass a certain percentage on students that

> start a class and then are upset that the student has trouble passing

> a National Certification Exam. I think you get the idea that we can

> find many things to be frustrated about. But what amazes me the most

> that many employers expect that they should be able to hire a fresh

> graduate and use them as though they have years of experience in all

> aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

> intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do it

> has to be a education problem.

> I know that many students I have will have trouble with written exams

> and those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in an

> actual emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to

> certify a individual that included more than a multi-guess exam. Yes

> we test skills but under very sterile conditions. What I really want

> to know is how did the person perform under the distress of an

> emergency.

>

A big part of the education summit will be examining ways to do just that.

It involves extensive scenario practice with lots of stressful situations

built in, allowing the students to critique themselves and structure their own

improvement strategies, use of problem based learning, group learning, team

learning and practice, and so forth. That's what this summit will be about.

GG

> I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

> instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

> everyone or every program must be completely redone. What I suggest

> is that we try to look at all aspects of the problem and not just

> focus on a small part and hope it will repair all the problems within

> EMS Education at one time.

> Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

> wonderful days at the college and I had much to vent about. I am sure

> that some on this list will disagree with the above statements, and

> if you do and reply I will listen to your thoughts as well on this

> subject, because that is where we learn many things is listening to

> each other.

> Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

> might have.

>    

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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In a message dated 11/3/2004 8:26:24 PM Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two criteria

an employer looks for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and a pulse.

Thank you, I know that you have been listening to this quote of mine for

years. I find it so much easier to train a newly graduated Paramedic in a

program

designed for my service and knowing that when I let him/her out of that 9

month program, he/she is finally ready to stand on their own two feet, and only

then, do they get to work alone.

Unfortunately, the problem becomes much more complicated when I send a

seasoned paramedic into the same program and have to DE-program him/her from

that

company that hired him because he had a patch and a pulse.

Andy Foote

BEMS Manager

Lamar University-Orange Faculty Member

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In a message dated 11/3/2004 8:26:24 PM Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two criteria

an employer looks for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and a pulse.

Thank you, I know that you have been listening to this quote of mine for

years. I find it so much easier to train a newly graduated Paramedic in a

program

designed for my service and knowing that when I let him/her out of that 9

month program, he/she is finally ready to stand on their own two feet, and only

then, do they get to work alone.

Unfortunately, the problem becomes much more complicated when I send a

seasoned paramedic into the same program and have to DE-program him/her from

that

company that hired him because he had a patch and a pulse.

Andy Foote

BEMS Manager

Lamar University-Orange Faculty Member

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Share on other sites

I think, in terms of medical skills and knowledge, the paramedic (and EMT)

should leave the class prepared to practice. In terms of local system

issues, then these can be learned in the field. In the introduction to the

USDOT Paramedic Curriculum it says, " The EMT-Paramedic: National Standard

Curriculum represents the minimum required information to be presented

within a course leading to certification as a Paramedic. It is recognized

that there is additional specific education that will be required of

Paramedics who operate in the field, i.e. ambulance driving, heavy and light

rescue, basic extrication, special needs, and so on. It is also recognized

that this information might differ from locality to locality, and that each

training program or system should identify and provide special instruction

for these training requirements. This curriculum is intended to prepare a

medically competent Paramedic to operate in the field. Enrichment programs

and continuing education will help fulfill other specific needs for the

Paramedic's education. " Besides, once the student has graduated all " student

protections " are lost (including institutional liability insurance) and the

student is expecetd to function at the same level of care as a graduate

paramed (or EMT). The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two criteria

an employer looks for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and a pulse.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Rantings of an EMS educator

Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a problem

with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our training

faculties? In very few education settings do we expect those who are

completing their formal education to be fully functional in there

profession? By example when my son finishes his degree in business I do not

expect him to be hired as the chief executive officer for a fortune 500

company, nor does the company hiring him expect the same, what they want is

someone who understands the general concepts of the job and that is will to

learn from a more seasoned person within there company. For many years

within this country we had an on the job training process through

internships or apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose

to leave them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to fill a spot

in there rotation with out additional experience.

I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the last few

days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the pitfalls of the

education process. I for one do agree that there are many ways to improve

the education process and improve EMS through education. I am all for the

meetings that have been discussed here on this list. And look for ways to

improve this program and myself as an instructor. As an EMS educator with

approximately 7 years experience teaching and the last 5 of those as an

assistant program director at a Community College, I too am becoming fully

frustrated by many thing that have been discussed that affect our ability to

educate our students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive

in our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text that

is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the local public

schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple times until they

pass, students whose mothers call because I must be picking on her child and

he really should be given more attempts to complete projects and such. I am

frustrated by administrators at my school that think I should pass a certain

percentage on students that start a class and then are upset that the

student has trouble passing a National Certification Exam. I think you get

the idea that we can find many things to be frustrated about. But what

amazes me the most that many employers expect that they should be able to

hire a fresh graduate and use them as though they have years of experience

in all aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do it has to

be a education problem.

I know that many students I have will have trouble with written exams and

those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in an actual

emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to certify a individual

that included more than a multi-guess exam. Yes we test skills but under

very sterile conditions. What I really want to know is how did the person

perform under the distress of an emergency.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying everyone or

every program must be completely redone. What I suggest is that we try to

look at all aspects of the problem and not just focus on a small part and

hope it will repair all the problems within EMS Education at one time.

Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those wonderful days

at the college and I had much to vent about. I am sure that some on this

list will disagree with the above statements, and if you do and reply I will

listen to your thoughts as well on this subject, because that is where we

learn many things is listening to each other.

Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you might

have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Amen, brother, I FEEEEEELLLLLL your pain!!!

Jane

-------------- Original message from " vmmedic " :

--------------

Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

problem with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our

training faculties? In very few education settings do we expect

those who are completing their formal education to be fully

functional in there profession? By example when my son finishes his

degree in business I do not expect him to be hired as the chief

executive officer for a fortune 500 company, nor does the company

hiring him expect the same, what they want is someone who understands

the general concepts of the job and that is will to learn from a more

seasoned person within there company. For many years within this

country we had an on the job training process through internships or

apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose to leave

them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to fill

a spot in there rotation with out additional experience.

I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the last

few days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the

pitfalls of the education process. I for one do agree that there are

many ways to improve the education process and improve EMS through

education. I am all for the meetings that have been discussed here on

this list. And look for ways to improve this program and myself as an

instructor. As an EMS educator with approximately 7 years experience

teaching and the last 5 of those as an assistant program director at

a Community College, I too am becoming fully frustrated by many thing

that have been discussed that affect our ability to educate our

students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive in

our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text

that is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the local

public schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple times

until they pass, students whose mothers call because I must be

picking on her child and he really should be given more attempts to

complete projects and such. I am frustrated by administrators at my

school that think I should pass a certain percentage on students that

start a class and then are upset that the student has trouble passing

a National Certification Exam. I think you get the idea that we can

find many things to be frustrated about. But what amazes me the most

that many employers expect that they should be able to hire a fresh

graduate and use them as though they have years of experience in all

aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do it

has to be a education problem.

I know that many students I have will have trouble with written exams

and those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in an

actual emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to

certify a individual that included more than a multi-guess exam. Yes

we test skills but under very sterile conditions. What I really want

to know is how did the person perform under the distress of an

emergency.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

everyone or every program must be completely redone. What I suggest

is that we try to look at all aspects of the problem and not just

focus on a small part and hope it will repair all the problems within

EMS Education at one time.

Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

wonderful days at the college and I had much to vent about. I am sure

that some on this list will disagree with the above statements, and

if you do and reply I will listen to your thoughts as well on this

subject, because that is where we learn many things is listening to

each other.

Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

might have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Amen, brother, I FEEEEEELLLLLL your pain!!!

Jane

-------------- Original message from " vmmedic " :

--------------

Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

problem with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our

training faculties? In very few education settings do we expect

those who are completing their formal education to be fully

functional in there profession? By example when my son finishes his

degree in business I do not expect him to be hired as the chief

executive officer for a fortune 500 company, nor does the company

hiring him expect the same, what they want is someone who understands

the general concepts of the job and that is will to learn from a more

seasoned person within there company. For many years within this

country we had an on the job training process through internships or

apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose to leave

them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to fill

a spot in there rotation with out additional experience.

I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the last

few days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the

pitfalls of the education process. I for one do agree that there are

many ways to improve the education process and improve EMS through

education. I am all for the meetings that have been discussed here on

this list. And look for ways to improve this program and myself as an

instructor. As an EMS educator with approximately 7 years experience

teaching and the last 5 of those as an assistant program director at

a Community College, I too am becoming fully frustrated by many thing

that have been discussed that affect our ability to educate our

students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive in

our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text

that is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the local

public schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple times

until they pass, students whose mothers call because I must be

picking on her child and he really should be given more attempts to

complete projects and such. I am frustrated by administrators at my

school that think I should pass a certain percentage on students that

start a class and then are upset that the student has trouble passing

a National Certification Exam. I think you get the idea that we can

find many things to be frustrated about. But what amazes me the most

that many employers expect that they should be able to hire a fresh

graduate and use them as though they have years of experience in all

aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do it

has to be a education problem.

I know that many students I have will have trouble with written exams

and those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in an

actual emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to

certify a individual that included more than a multi-guess exam. Yes

we test skills but under very sterile conditions. What I really want

to know is how did the person perform under the distress of an

emergency.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

everyone or every program must be completely redone. What I suggest

is that we try to look at all aspects of the problem and not just

focus on a small part and hope it will repair all the problems within

EMS Education at one time.

Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

wonderful days at the college and I had much to vent about. I am sure

that some on this list will disagree with the above statements, and

if you do and reply I will listen to your thoughts as well on this

subject, because that is where we learn many things is listening to

each other.

Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

might have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Amen, brother, I FEEEEEELLLLLL your pain!!!

Jane

-------------- Original message from " vmmedic " :

--------------

Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

problem with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our

training faculties? In very few education settings do we expect

those who are completing their formal education to be fully

functional in there profession? By example when my son finishes his

degree in business I do not expect him to be hired as the chief

executive officer for a fortune 500 company, nor does the company

hiring him expect the same, what they want is someone who understands

the general concepts of the job and that is will to learn from a more

seasoned person within there company. For many years within this

country we had an on the job training process through internships or

apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose to leave

them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to fill

a spot in there rotation with out additional experience.

I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the last

few days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the

pitfalls of the education process. I for one do agree that there are

many ways to improve the education process and improve EMS through

education. I am all for the meetings that have been discussed here on

this list. And look for ways to improve this program and myself as an

instructor. As an EMS educator with approximately 7 years experience

teaching and the last 5 of those as an assistant program director at

a Community College, I too am becoming fully frustrated by many thing

that have been discussed that affect our ability to educate our

students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive in

our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text

that is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the local

public schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple times

until they pass, students whose mothers call because I must be

picking on her child and he really should be given more attempts to

complete projects and such. I am frustrated by administrators at my

school that think I should pass a certain percentage on students that

start a class and then are upset that the student has trouble passing

a National Certification Exam. I think you get the idea that we can

find many things to be frustrated about. But what amazes me the most

that many employers expect that they should be able to hire a fresh

graduate and use them as though they have years of experience in all

aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do it

has to be a education problem.

I know that many students I have will have trouble with written exams

and those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in an

actual emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to

certify a individual that included more than a multi-guess exam. Yes

we test skills but under very sterile conditions. What I really want

to know is how did the person perform under the distress of an

emergency.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

everyone or every program must be completely redone. What I suggest

is that we try to look at all aspects of the problem and not just

focus on a small part and hope it will repair all the problems within

EMS Education at one time.

Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

wonderful days at the college and I had much to vent about. I am sure

that some on this list will disagree with the above statements, and

if you do and reply I will listen to your thoughts as well on this

subject, because that is where we learn many things is listening to

each other.

Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

might have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The pulse and a patch hiring practice is what got us to the lack of

professionalism that we here so much about here on this forum. But

much of that is then pushed back on to education. Damn viscous cycle

that is destroying the profession that I love.

> I think, in terms of medical skills and knowledge, the paramedic

(and EMT)

> should leave the class prepared to practice. In terms of local

system

> issues, then these can be learned in the field. In the introduction

to the

> USDOT Paramedic Curriculum it says, " The EMT-Paramedic: National

Standard

> Curriculum represents the minimum required information to be

presented

> within a course leading to certification as a Paramedic. It is

recognized

> that there is additional specific education that will be required of

> Paramedics who operate in the field, i.e. ambulance driving, heavy

and light

> rescue, basic extrication, special needs, and so on. It is also

recognized

> that this information might differ from locality to locality, and

that each

> training program or system should identify and provide special

instruction

> for these training requirements. This curriculum is intended to

prepare a

> medically competent Paramedic to operate in the field. Enrichment

programs

> and continuing education will help fulfill other specific needs for

the

> Paramedic's education. " Besides, once the student has graduated

all " student

> protections " are lost (including institutional liability insurance)

and the

> student is expecetd to function at the same level of care as a

graduate

> paramed (or EMT). The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two

criteria

> an employer looks for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and

a pulse.

>

> BEB

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

> Rantings of an EMS educator

>

>

>

> Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

problem

> with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our training

> faculties? In very few education settings do we expect those who

are

> completing their formal education to be fully functional in there

> profession? By example when my son finishes his degree in business

I do not

> expect him to be hired as the chief executive officer for a fortune

500

> company, nor does the company hiring him expect the same, what they

want is

> someone who understands the general concepts of the job and that is

will to

> learn from a more seasoned person within there company. For many

years

> within this country we had an on the job training process through

> internships or apprenticeship for many technical professions and we

choose

> to leave them behind for a more formal training such as college or

prep

> schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to

fill a spot

> in there rotation with out additional experience.

> I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the

last few

> days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the pitfalls

of the

> education process. I for one do agree that there are many ways to

improve

> the education process and improve EMS through education. I am all

for the

> meetings that have been discussed here on this list. And look for

ways to

> improve this program and myself as an instructor. As an EMS

educator with

> approximately 7 years experience teaching and the last 5 of those

as an

> assistant program director at a Community College, I too am

becoming fully

> frustrated by many thing that have been discussed that affect our

ability to

> educate our students. Some of the most frustrating are students

that arrive

> in our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a

text that

> is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the local

public

> schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple times until

they

> pass, students whose mothers call because I must be picking on her

child and

> he really should be given more attempts to complete projects and

such. I am

> frustrated by administrators at my school that think I should pass

a certain

> percentage on students that start a class and then are upset that

the

> student has trouble passing a National Certification Exam. I think

you get

> the idea that we can find many things to be frustrated about. But

what

> amazes me the most that many employers expect that they should be

able to

> hire a fresh graduate and use them as though they have years of

experience

> in all aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have

trouble

> intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do

it has to

> be a education problem.

> I know that many students I have will have trouble with written

exams and

> those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in an

actual

> emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to certify a

individual

> that included more than a multi-guess exam. Yes we test skills but

under

> very sterile conditions. What I really want to know is how did the

person

> perform under the distress of an emergency.

> I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

> instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

everyone or

> every program must be completely redone. What I suggest is that we

try to

> look at all aspects of the problem and not just focus on a small

part and

> hope it will repair all the problems within EMS Education at one

time.

> Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

wonderful days

> at the college and I had much to vent about. I am sure that some on

this

> list will disagree with the above statements, and if you do and

reply I will

> listen to your thoughts as well on this subject, because that is

where we

> learn many things is listening to each other.

> Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

might

> have.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The pulse and a patch hiring practice is what got us to the lack of

professionalism that we here so much about here on this forum. But

much of that is then pushed back on to education. Damn viscous cycle

that is destroying the profession that I love.

> I think, in terms of medical skills and knowledge, the paramedic

(and EMT)

> should leave the class prepared to practice. In terms of local

system

> issues, then these can be learned in the field. In the introduction

to the

> USDOT Paramedic Curriculum it says, " The EMT-Paramedic: National

Standard

> Curriculum represents the minimum required information to be

presented

> within a course leading to certification as a Paramedic. It is

recognized

> that there is additional specific education that will be required of

> Paramedics who operate in the field, i.e. ambulance driving, heavy

and light

> rescue, basic extrication, special needs, and so on. It is also

recognized

> that this information might differ from locality to locality, and

that each

> training program or system should identify and provide special

instruction

> for these training requirements. This curriculum is intended to

prepare a

> medically competent Paramedic to operate in the field. Enrichment

programs

> and continuing education will help fulfill other specific needs for

the

> Paramedic's education. " Besides, once the student has graduated

all " student

> protections " are lost (including institutional liability insurance)

and the

> student is expecetd to function at the same level of care as a

graduate

> paramed (or EMT). The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two

criteria

> an employer looks for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and

a pulse.

>

> BEB

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

> Rantings of an EMS educator

>

>

>

> Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

problem

> with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our training

> faculties? In very few education settings do we expect those who

are

> completing their formal education to be fully functional in there

> profession? By example when my son finishes his degree in business

I do not

> expect him to be hired as the chief executive officer for a fortune

500

> company, nor does the company hiring him expect the same, what they

want is

> someone who understands the general concepts of the job and that is

will to

> learn from a more seasoned person within there company. For many

years

> within this country we had an on the job training process through

> internships or apprenticeship for many technical professions and we

choose

> to leave them behind for a more formal training such as college or

prep

> schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to

fill a spot

> in there rotation with out additional experience.

> I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the

last few

> days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the pitfalls

of the

> education process. I for one do agree that there are many ways to

improve

> the education process and improve EMS through education. I am all

for the

> meetings that have been discussed here on this list. And look for

ways to

> improve this program and myself as an instructor. As an EMS

educator with

> approximately 7 years experience teaching and the last 5 of those

as an

> assistant program director at a Community College, I too am

becoming fully

> frustrated by many thing that have been discussed that affect our

ability to

> educate our students. Some of the most frustrating are students

that arrive

> in our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a

text that

> is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the local

public

> schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple times until

they

> pass, students whose mothers call because I must be picking on her

child and

> he really should be given more attempts to complete projects and

such. I am

> frustrated by administrators at my school that think I should pass

a certain

> percentage on students that start a class and then are upset that

the

> student has trouble passing a National Certification Exam. I think

you get

> the idea that we can find many things to be frustrated about. But

what

> amazes me the most that many employers expect that they should be

able to

> hire a fresh graduate and use them as though they have years of

experience

> in all aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have

trouble

> intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do

it has to

> be a education problem.

> I know that many students I have will have trouble with written

exams and

> those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in an

actual

> emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to certify a

individual

> that included more than a multi-guess exam. Yes we test skills but

under

> very sterile conditions. What I really want to know is how did the

person

> perform under the distress of an emergency.

> I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

> instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

everyone or

> every program must be completely redone. What I suggest is that we

try to

> look at all aspects of the problem and not just focus on a small

part and

> hope it will repair all the problems within EMS Education at one

time.

> Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

wonderful days

> at the college and I had much to vent about. I am sure that some on

this

> list will disagree with the above statements, and if you do and

reply I will

> listen to your thoughts as well on this subject, because that is

where we

> learn many things is listening to each other.

> Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

might

> have.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The pulse and a patch hiring practice is what got us to the lack of

professionalism that we here so much about here on this forum. But

much of that is then pushed back on to education. Damn viscous cycle

that is destroying the profession that I love.

> I think, in terms of medical skills and knowledge, the paramedic

(and EMT)

> should leave the class prepared to practice. In terms of local

system

> issues, then these can be learned in the field. In the introduction

to the

> USDOT Paramedic Curriculum it says, " The EMT-Paramedic: National

Standard

> Curriculum represents the minimum required information to be

presented

> within a course leading to certification as a Paramedic. It is

recognized

> that there is additional specific education that will be required of

> Paramedics who operate in the field, i.e. ambulance driving, heavy

and light

> rescue, basic extrication, special needs, and so on. It is also

recognized

> that this information might differ from locality to locality, and

that each

> training program or system should identify and provide special

instruction

> for these training requirements. This curriculum is intended to

prepare a

> medically competent Paramedic to operate in the field. Enrichment

programs

> and continuing education will help fulfill other specific needs for

the

> Paramedic's education. " Besides, once the student has graduated

all " student

> protections " are lost (including institutional liability insurance)

and the

> student is expecetd to function at the same level of care as a

graduate

> paramed (or EMT). The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two

criteria

> an employer looks for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and

a pulse.

>

> BEB

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

> Rantings of an EMS educator

>

>

>

> Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

problem

> with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our training

> faculties? In very few education settings do we expect those who

are

> completing their formal education to be fully functional in there

> profession? By example when my son finishes his degree in business

I do not

> expect him to be hired as the chief executive officer for a fortune

500

> company, nor does the company hiring him expect the same, what they

want is

> someone who understands the general concepts of the job and that is

will to

> learn from a more seasoned person within there company. For many

years

> within this country we had an on the job training process through

> internships or apprenticeship for many technical professions and we

choose

> to leave them behind for a more formal training such as college or

prep

> schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to

fill a spot

> in there rotation with out additional experience.

> I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the

last few

> days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the pitfalls

of the

> education process. I for one do agree that there are many ways to

improve

> the education process and improve EMS through education. I am all

for the

> meetings that have been discussed here on this list. And look for

ways to

> improve this program and myself as an instructor. As an EMS

educator with

> approximately 7 years experience teaching and the last 5 of those

as an

> assistant program director at a Community College, I too am

becoming fully

> frustrated by many thing that have been discussed that affect our

ability to

> educate our students. Some of the most frustrating are students

that arrive

> in our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a

text that

> is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the local

public

> schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple times until

they

> pass, students whose mothers call because I must be picking on her

child and

> he really should be given more attempts to complete projects and

such. I am

> frustrated by administrators at my school that think I should pass

a certain

> percentage on students that start a class and then are upset that

the

> student has trouble passing a National Certification Exam. I think

you get

> the idea that we can find many things to be frustrated about. But

what

> amazes me the most that many employers expect that they should be

able to

> hire a fresh graduate and use them as though they have years of

experience

> in all aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have

trouble

> intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do

it has to

> be a education problem.

> I know that many students I have will have trouble with written

exams and

> those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in an

actual

> emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to certify a

individual

> that included more than a multi-guess exam. Yes we test skills but

under

> very sterile conditions. What I really want to know is how did the

person

> perform under the distress of an emergency.

> I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

> instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

everyone or

> every program must be completely redone. What I suggest is that we

try to

> look at all aspects of the problem and not just focus on a small

part and

> hope it will repair all the problems within EMS Education at one

time.

> Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

wonderful days

> at the college and I had much to vent about. I am sure that some on

this

> list will disagree with the above statements, and if you do and

reply I will

> listen to your thoughts as well on this subject, because that is

where we

> learn many things is listening to each other.

> Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

might

> have.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And to quote a previous posting " What do we do about it? "

> Amen, brother, I FEEEEEELLLLLL your pain!!!

>

> Jane

>

> -------------- Original message from " vmmedic " <vmmedic@y...>: -----

---------

>

>

> Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

> problem with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our

> training faculties? In very few education settings do we expect

> those who are completing their formal education to be fully

> functional in there profession? By example when my son finishes his

> degree in business I do not expect him to be hired as the chief

> executive officer for a fortune 500 company, nor does the company

> hiring him expect the same, what they want is someone who

understands

> the general concepts of the job and that is will to learn from a

more

> seasoned person within there company. For many years within this

> country we had an on the job training process through internships

or

> apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose to

leave

> them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

> schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to

fill

> a spot in there rotation with out additional experience.

> I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the

last

> few days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the

> pitfalls of the education process. I for one do agree that there

are

> many ways to improve the education process and improve EMS through

> education. I am all for the meetings that have been discussed here

on

> this list. And look for ways to improve this program and myself as

an

> instructor. As an EMS educator with approximately 7 years

experience

> teaching and the last 5 of those as an assistant program director

at

> a Community College, I too am becoming fully frustrated by many

thing

> that have been discussed that affect our ability to educate our

> students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive in

> our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text

> that is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the

local

> public schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple

times

> until they pass, students whose mothers call because I must be

> picking on her child and he really should be given more attempts to

> complete projects and such. I am frustrated by administrators at my

> school that think I should pass a certain percentage on students

that

> start a class and then are upset that the student has trouble

passing

> a National Certification Exam. I think you get the idea that we can

> find many things to be frustrated about. But what amazes me the

most

> that many employers expect that they should be able to hire a fresh

> graduate and use them as though they have years of experience in

all

> aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

> intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do

it

> has to be a education problem.

> I know that many students I have will have trouble with written

exams

> and those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in

an

> actual emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to

> certify a individual that included more than a multi-guess exam.

Yes

> we test skills but under very sterile conditions. What I really

want

> to know is how did the person perform under the distress of an

> emergency.

> I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

> instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

> everyone or every program must be completely redone. What I suggest

> is that we try to look at all aspects of the problem and not just

> focus on a small part and hope it will repair all the problems

within

> EMS Education at one time.

> Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

> wonderful days at the college and I had much to vent about. I am

sure

> that some on this list will disagree with the above statements, and

> if you do and reply I will listen to your thoughts as well on this

> subject, because that is where we learn many things is listening to

> each other.

> Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

> might have.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And to quote a previous posting " What do we do about it? "

> Amen, brother, I FEEEEEELLLLLL your pain!!!

>

> Jane

>

> -------------- Original message from " vmmedic " <vmmedic@y...>: -----

---------

>

>

> Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

> problem with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our

> training faculties? In very few education settings do we expect

> those who are completing their formal education to be fully

> functional in there profession? By example when my son finishes his

> degree in business I do not expect him to be hired as the chief

> executive officer for a fortune 500 company, nor does the company

> hiring him expect the same, what they want is someone who

understands

> the general concepts of the job and that is will to learn from a

more

> seasoned person within there company. For many years within this

> country we had an on the job training process through internships

or

> apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose to

leave

> them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

> schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to

fill

> a spot in there rotation with out additional experience.

> I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the

last

> few days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the

> pitfalls of the education process. I for one do agree that there

are

> many ways to improve the education process and improve EMS through

> education. I am all for the meetings that have been discussed here

on

> this list. And look for ways to improve this program and myself as

an

> instructor. As an EMS educator with approximately 7 years

experience

> teaching and the last 5 of those as an assistant program director

at

> a Community College, I too am becoming fully frustrated by many

thing

> that have been discussed that affect our ability to educate our

> students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive in

> our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text

> that is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the

local

> public schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple

times

> until they pass, students whose mothers call because I must be

> picking on her child and he really should be given more attempts to

> complete projects and such. I am frustrated by administrators at my

> school that think I should pass a certain percentage on students

that

> start a class and then are upset that the student has trouble

passing

> a National Certification Exam. I think you get the idea that we can

> find many things to be frustrated about. But what amazes me the

most

> that many employers expect that they should be able to hire a fresh

> graduate and use them as though they have years of experience in

all

> aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

> intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do

it

> has to be a education problem.

> I know that many students I have will have trouble with written

exams

> and those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in

an

> actual emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to

> certify a individual that included more than a multi-guess exam.

Yes

> we test skills but under very sterile conditions. What I really

want

> to know is how did the person perform under the distress of an

> emergency.

> I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

> instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

> everyone or every program must be completely redone. What I suggest

> is that we try to look at all aspects of the problem and not just

> focus on a small part and hope it will repair all the problems

within

> EMS Education at one time.

> Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

> wonderful days at the college and I had much to vent about. I am

sure

> that some on this list will disagree with the above statements, and

> if you do and reply I will listen to your thoughts as well on this

> subject, because that is where we learn many things is listening to

> each other.

> Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

> might have.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And to quote a previous posting " What do we do about it? "

> Amen, brother, I FEEEEEELLLLLL your pain!!!

>

> Jane

>

> -------------- Original message from " vmmedic " <vmmedic@y...>: -----

---------

>

>

> Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

> problem with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our

> training faculties? In very few education settings do we expect

> those who are completing their formal education to be fully

> functional in there profession? By example when my son finishes his

> degree in business I do not expect him to be hired as the chief

> executive officer for a fortune 500 company, nor does the company

> hiring him expect the same, what they want is someone who

understands

> the general concepts of the job and that is will to learn from a

more

> seasoned person within there company. For many years within this

> country we had an on the job training process through internships

or

> apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose to

leave

> them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

> schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to

fill

> a spot in there rotation with out additional experience.

> I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the

last

> few days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the

> pitfalls of the education process. I for one do agree that there

are

> many ways to improve the education process and improve EMS through

> education. I am all for the meetings that have been discussed here

on

> this list. And look for ways to improve this program and myself as

an

> instructor. As an EMS educator with approximately 7 years

experience

> teaching and the last 5 of those as an assistant program director

at

> a Community College, I too am becoming fully frustrated by many

thing

> that have been discussed that affect our ability to educate our

> students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive in

> our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text

> that is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the

local

> public schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple

times

> until they pass, students whose mothers call because I must be

> picking on her child and he really should be given more attempts to

> complete projects and such. I am frustrated by administrators at my

> school that think I should pass a certain percentage on students

that

> start a class and then are upset that the student has trouble

passing

> a National Certification Exam. I think you get the idea that we can

> find many things to be frustrated about. But what amazes me the

most

> that many employers expect that they should be able to hire a fresh

> graduate and use them as though they have years of experience in

all

> aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

> intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do

it

> has to be a education problem.

> I know that many students I have will have trouble with written

exams

> and those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in

an

> actual emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to

> certify a individual that included more than a multi-guess exam.

Yes

> we test skills but under very sterile conditions. What I really

want

> to know is how did the person perform under the distress of an

> emergency.

> I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

> instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

> everyone or every program must be completely redone. What I suggest

> is that we try to look at all aspects of the problem and not just

> focus on a small part and hope it will repair all the problems

within

> EMS Education at one time.

> Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

> wonderful days at the college and I had much to vent about. I am

sure

> that some on this list will disagree with the above statements, and

> if you do and reply I will listen to your thoughts as well on this

> subject, because that is where we learn many things is listening to

> each other.

> Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

> might have.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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this is soooooo true. i remember that when i went through

class, it was the first class based on the new curriculum,

and i felt it was very educational. the only irony to the

whole thing was that my instructor told us that due to ems

being incorporated into other aspects of health care

(hosp,dr.

office and so on) that our education would be based on a

more clinical aspect that emergency. kenneth, i don't know

if that is a universal belief at every comm college or not.

my instructor also told us that we can't learn everything in

class, so we have to gain the rest of it in the field. but

at the same time, through heresay(and field training

officers) the company that i work for is known for releasing

their new employees even though field training officers have

told the clinical director over and over again that the

medic is not ready. of course it is based on the old saying

that has been quoted over and over again in this discussion

that " the company " just wants a " pulse and a patch, " or as

another way i have heard also, a " warm body and a patch. "

well now to start a new day saving lives and taking names.

or as " the company " encrypted to me " make my money " .

________________________________________

THIS EMAIL DOES NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS

OF GOLDSTAR EMS

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this is soooooo true. i remember that when i went through

class, it was the first class based on the new curriculum,

and i felt it was very educational. the only irony to the

whole thing was that my instructor told us that due to ems

being incorporated into other aspects of health care

(hosp,dr.

office and so on) that our education would be based on a

more clinical aspect that emergency. kenneth, i don't know

if that is a universal belief at every comm college or not.

my instructor also told us that we can't learn everything in

class, so we have to gain the rest of it in the field. but

at the same time, through heresay(and field training

officers) the company that i work for is known for releasing

their new employees even though field training officers have

told the clinical director over and over again that the

medic is not ready. of course it is based on the old saying

that has been quoted over and over again in this discussion

that " the company " just wants a " pulse and a patch, " or as

another way i have heard also, a " warm body and a patch. "

well now to start a new day saving lives and taking names.

or as " the company " encrypted to me " make my money " .

________________________________________

THIS EMAIL DOES NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS

OF GOLDSTAR EMS

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Share on other sites

I remember a state (not sure which one as I have been in 41 of them over the

last 3 years), but one met with legistlators and hospital associations and

physician associations and cleared the obstacles for paramedics to obtain

in-hospital intubations (and other proecdures). The system worked well. The

meetings put everything on the same page, the legislature passed a law that

bypassed nursing laws that preveneted EMS students from doing skills

in-hospital (the nurse association was a major impediment to EMS education),

and the legislature provided some liability immunity for the instructing

anesthesiologists. When the issue of civil liberties was raised

(anesthesiologists having immunity upset the trial lawyers), the legislature

determined that it was in the greater public interest to have competent and

well-trained paramedics and that outweighed whatever civil remedies were

lost by granting the anesthesiolgists some immunity. Why can't TCEP, EMSAT,

the Texas EMS Instructors, TMA, TOMA, and THA meet and get this ironed out

before our next legislature. I gurantee our largely rural legislature would

buy it if properly presented.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: Rantings of an EMS educator

In a message dated 11/3/2004 8:26:24 PM Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two criteria an employer looks

for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and a pulse.

Thank you, I know that you have been listening to this quote of mine for

years. I find it so much easier to train a newly graduated Paramedic in a

program designed for my service and knowing that when I let him/her out of

that 9 month program, he/she is finally ready to stand on their own two

feet, and only then, do they get to work alone.

Unfortunately, the problem becomes much more complicated when I send a

seasoned paramedic into the same program and have to DE-program him/her from

that company that hired him because he had a patch and a pulse.

Andy Foote

BEMS Manager

Lamar University-Orange Faculty Member

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember a state (not sure which one as I have been in 41 of them over the

last 3 years), but one met with legistlators and hospital associations and

physician associations and cleared the obstacles for paramedics to obtain

in-hospital intubations (and other proecdures). The system worked well. The

meetings put everything on the same page, the legislature passed a law that

bypassed nursing laws that preveneted EMS students from doing skills

in-hospital (the nurse association was a major impediment to EMS education),

and the legislature provided some liability immunity for the instructing

anesthesiologists. When the issue of civil liberties was raised

(anesthesiologists having immunity upset the trial lawyers), the legislature

determined that it was in the greater public interest to have competent and

well-trained paramedics and that outweighed whatever civil remedies were

lost by granting the anesthesiolgists some immunity. Why can't TCEP, EMSAT,

the Texas EMS Instructors, TMA, TOMA, and THA meet and get this ironed out

before our next legislature. I gurantee our largely rural legislature would

buy it if properly presented.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: Rantings of an EMS educator

In a message dated 11/3/2004 8:26:24 PM Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two criteria an employer looks

for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and a pulse.

Thank you, I know that you have been listening to this quote of mine for

years. I find it so much easier to train a newly graduated Paramedic in a

program designed for my service and knowing that when I let him/her out of

that 9 month program, he/she is finally ready to stand on their own two

feet, and only then, do they get to work alone.

Unfortunately, the problem becomes much more complicated when I send a

seasoned paramedic into the same program and have to DE-program him/her from

that company that hired him because he had a patch and a pulse.

Andy Foote

BEMS Manager

Lamar University-Orange Faculty Member

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember a state (not sure which one as I have been in 41 of them over the

last 3 years), but one met with legistlators and hospital associations and

physician associations and cleared the obstacles for paramedics to obtain

in-hospital intubations (and other proecdures). The system worked well. The

meetings put everything on the same page, the legislature passed a law that

bypassed nursing laws that preveneted EMS students from doing skills

in-hospital (the nurse association was a major impediment to EMS education),

and the legislature provided some liability immunity for the instructing

anesthesiologists. When the issue of civil liberties was raised

(anesthesiologists having immunity upset the trial lawyers), the legislature

determined that it was in the greater public interest to have competent and

well-trained paramedics and that outweighed whatever civil remedies were

lost by granting the anesthesiolgists some immunity. Why can't TCEP, EMSAT,

the Texas EMS Instructors, TMA, TOMA, and THA meet and get this ironed out

before our next legislature. I gurantee our largely rural legislature would

buy it if properly presented.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: Rantings of an EMS educator

In a message dated 11/3/2004 8:26:24 PM Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two criteria an employer looks

for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and a pulse.

Thank you, I know that you have been listening to this quote of mine for

years. I find it so much easier to train a newly graduated Paramedic in a

program designed for my service and knowing that when I let him/her out of

that 9 month program, he/she is finally ready to stand on their own two

feet, and only then, do they get to work alone.

Unfortunately, the problem becomes much more complicated when I send a

seasoned paramedic into the same program and have to DE-program him/her from

that company that hired him because he had a patch and a pulse.

Andy Foote

BEMS Manager

Lamar University-Orange Faculty Member

Link to comment
Share on other sites

et al,

Perhaps this is something that EMSAT can take on. I'll bring this to the

Board's attention.

Randell

Re: Rantings of an EMS educator

In a message dated 11/3/2004 8:26:24 PM Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two criteria an employer looks

for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and a pulse.

Thank you, I know that you have been listening to this quote of mine for

years. I find it so much easier to train a newly graduated Paramedic in a

program designed for my service and knowing that when I let him/her out of

that 9 month program, he/she is finally ready to stand on their own two

feet, and only then, do they get to work alone.

Unfortunately, the problem becomes much more complicated when I send a

seasoned paramedic into the same program and have to DE-program him/her from

that company that hired him because he had a patch and a pulse.

Andy Foote

BEMS Manager

Lamar University-Orange Faculty Member

Link to comment
Share on other sites

et al,

Perhaps this is something that EMSAT can take on. I'll bring this to the

Board's attention.

Randell

Re: Rantings of an EMS educator

In a message dated 11/3/2004 8:26:24 PM Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two criteria an employer looks

for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and a pulse.

Thank you, I know that you have been listening to this quote of mine for

years. I find it so much easier to train a newly graduated Paramedic in a

program designed for my service and knowing that when I let him/her out of

that 9 month program, he/she is finally ready to stand on their own two

feet, and only then, do they get to work alone.

Unfortunately, the problem becomes much more complicated when I send a

seasoned paramedic into the same program and have to DE-program him/her from

that company that hired him because he had a patch and a pulse.

Andy Foote

BEMS Manager

Lamar University-Orange Faculty Member

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure some of it we will ever have any control over - such as the

attitudes and demeanors of upper management in the colleges. As for the

attitude problems with physicians and nurses in relation to student rotations,

we can't defeat them all. However, I think we as a state need to figure out a

way to better educate hospitals as a whole as to what we do out here, how our

training programs are structured, and what our needs are. What I see is that we

are typically an afterthought - just those EMS people we have to deal with. I

have to wonder if there is a way that we could approach this issue from a higher

level, maybe something that could filter down through THA? Or am I grasping

here????

Jane

-------------- Original message from " vmmedic " :

--------------

And to quote a previous posting " What do we do about it? "

> Amen, brother, I FEEEEEELLLLLL your pain!!!

>

> Jane

>

> -------------- Original message from " vmmedic " <vmmedic@y...>: -----

---------

>

>

> Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

> problem with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our

> training faculties? In very few education settings do we expect

> those who are completing their formal education to be fully

> functional in there profession? By example when my son finishes his

> degree in business I do not expect him to be hired as the chief

> executive officer for a fortune 500 company, nor does the company

> hiring him expect the same, what they want is someone who

understands

> the general concepts of the job and that is will to learn from a

more

> seasoned person within there company. For many years within this

> country we had an on the job training process through internships

or

> apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose to

leave

> them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

> schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to

fill

> a spot in there rotation with out additional experience.

> I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the

last

> few days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the

> pitfalls of the education process. I for one do agree that there

are

> many ways to improve the education process and improve EMS through

> education. I am all for the meetings that have been discussed here

on

> this list. And look for ways to improve this program and myself as

an

> instructor. As an EMS educator with approximately 7 years

experience

> teaching and the last 5 of those as an assistant program director

at

> a Community College, I too am becoming fully frustrated by many

thing

> that have been discussed that affect our ability to educate our

> students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive in

> our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text

> that is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the

local

> public schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple

times

> until they pass, students whose mothers call because I must be

> picking on her child and he really should be given more attempts to

> complete projects and such. I am frustrated by administrators at my

> school that think I should pass a certain percentage on students

that

> start a class and then are upset that the student has trouble

passing

> a National Certification Exam. I think you get the idea that we can

> find many things to be frustrated about. But what amazes me the

most

> that many employers expect that they should be able to hire a fresh

> graduate and use them as though they have years of experience in

all

> aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

> intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do

it

> has to be a education problem.

> I know that many students I have will have trouble with written

exams

> and those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in

an

> actual emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to

> certify a individual that included more than a multi-guess exam.

Yes

> we test skills but under very sterile conditions. What I really

want

> to know is how did the person perform under the distress of an

> emergency.

> I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

> instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

> everyone or every program must be completely redone. What I suggest

> is that we try to look at all aspects of the problem and not just

> focus on a small part and hope it will repair all the problems

within

> EMS Education at one time.

> Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

> wonderful days at the college and I had much to vent about. I am

sure

> that some on this list will disagree with the above statements, and

> if you do and reply I will listen to your thoughts as well on this

> subject, because that is where we learn many things is listening to

> each other.

> Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

> might have.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure some of it we will ever have any control over - such as the

attitudes and demeanors of upper management in the colleges. As for the

attitude problems with physicians and nurses in relation to student rotations,

we can't defeat them all. However, I think we as a state need to figure out a

way to better educate hospitals as a whole as to what we do out here, how our

training programs are structured, and what our needs are. What I see is that we

are typically an afterthought - just those EMS people we have to deal with. I

have to wonder if there is a way that we could approach this issue from a higher

level, maybe something that could filter down through THA? Or am I grasping

here????

Jane

-------------- Original message from " vmmedic " :

--------------

And to quote a previous posting " What do we do about it? "

> Amen, brother, I FEEEEEELLLLLL your pain!!!

>

> Jane

>

> -------------- Original message from " vmmedic " <vmmedic@y...>: -----

---------

>

>

> Are the problems we see in EMS education an education problem or a

> problem with what employers expect from a person leaving one of our

> training faculties? In very few education settings do we expect

> those who are completing their formal education to be fully

> functional in there profession? By example when my son finishes his

> degree in business I do not expect him to be hired as the chief

> executive officer for a fortune 500 company, nor does the company

> hiring him expect the same, what they want is someone who

understands

> the general concepts of the job and that is will to learn from a

more

> seasoned person within there company. For many years within this

> country we had an on the job training process through internships

or

> apprenticeship for many technical professions and we choose to

leave

> them behind for a more formal training such as college or prep

> schools. Many EMS employers want these new medics to be able to

fill

> a spot in there rotation with out additional experience.

> I ask these questions because of the dialog on this list of the

last

> few days has had a lot of discussion on EMS education and the

> pitfalls of the education process. I for one do agree that there

are

> many ways to improve the education process and improve EMS through

> education. I am all for the meetings that have been discussed here

on

> this list. And look for ways to improve this program and myself as

an

> instructor. As an EMS educator with approximately 7 years

experience

> teaching and the last 5 of those as an assistant program director

at

> a Community College, I too am becoming fully frustrated by many

thing

> that have been discussed that affect our ability to educate our

> students. Some of the most frustrating are students that arrive in

> our classes with NO study habits, students that can not read a text

> that is written at a 9th grade level, students that within the

local

> public schools that have been allowed to retake exams multiple

times

> until they pass, students whose mothers call because I must be

> picking on her child and he really should be given more attempts to

> complete projects and such. I am frustrated by administrators at my

> school that think I should pass a certain percentage on students

that

> start a class and then are upset that the student has trouble

passing

> a National Certification Exam. I think you get the idea that we can

> find many things to be frustrated about. But what amazes me the

most

> that many employers expect that they should be able to hire a fresh

> graduate and use them as though they have years of experience in

all

> aspects of emergency care a new grad should never have trouble

> intubating a patient, never have trouble starting IV's if they do

it

> has to be a education problem.

> I know that many students I have will have trouble with written

exams

> and those exams tell me very little about how they will perform in

an

> actual emergency, I many times wished that there were a way to

> certify a individual that included more than a multi-guess exam.

Yes

> we test skills but under very sterile conditions. What I really

want

> to know is how did the person perform under the distress of an

> emergency.

> I guess what I am trying to say is that there are bad students, bad

> instructors, bad programs and bad employers. NO I am not saying

> everyone or every program must be completely redone. What I suggest

> is that we try to look at all aspects of the problem and not just

> focus on a small part and hope it will repair all the problems

within

> EMS Education at one time.

> Sorry that I ran this so long but today has been one of those

> wonderful days at the college and I had much to vent about. I am

sure

> that some on this list will disagree with the above statements, and

> if you do and reply I will listen to your thoughts as well on this

> subject, because that is where we learn many things is listening to

> each other.

> Thank you for reading my rants of the day and any comments that you

> might have.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dr. B, that is the best idea I have heard yet!!! I think we really should think

about this and maybe do just what you said. So how would we go about this now?

jane

--------- Re: Rantings of an EMS educator

In a message dated 11/3/2004 8:26:24 PM Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two criteria an employer looks

for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and a pulse.

Thank you, I know that you have been listening to this quote of mine for

years. I find it so much easier to train a newly graduated Paramedic in a

program designed for my service and knowing that when I let him/her out of

that 9 month program, he/she is finally ready to stand on their own two

feet, and only then, do they get to work alone.

Unfortunately, the problem becomes much more complicated when I send a

seasoned paramedic into the same program and have to DE-program him/her from

that company that hired him because he had a patch and a pulse.

Andy Foote

BEMS Manager

Lamar University-Orange Faculty Member

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dr. B, that is the best idea I have heard yet!!! I think we really should think

about this and maybe do just what you said. So how would we go about this now?

jane

--------- Re: Rantings of an EMS educator

In a message dated 11/3/2004 8:26:24 PM Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

The problem is sometimes deeper when the only two criteria an employer looks

for in a paramedic is the presence of a patch and a pulse.

Thank you, I know that you have been listening to this quote of mine for

years. I find it so much easier to train a newly graduated Paramedic in a

program designed for my service and knowing that when I let him/her out of

that 9 month program, he/she is finally ready to stand on their own two

feet, and only then, do they get to work alone.

Unfortunately, the problem becomes much more complicated when I send a

seasoned paramedic into the same program and have to DE-program him/her from

that company that hired him because he had a patch and a pulse.

Andy Foote

BEMS Manager

Lamar University-Orange Faculty Member

Link to comment
Share on other sites

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