Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 > > Hi, > I get see that EDTA is contra-indicated by Andy in 'Mercury Toxic' people. > " Agents which should never be used with mercury toxic people under any circumstances include chlorella, TTFD, and EDTA " 246 HTI > > So I'm not trying to confuse the issue and am clear that EDTA is NOT to be used in our mercury chelating protocols. > However, once you have completed chelation for mercury (perhaps confirmed by a hair test or symptoms) is it then possible to use Oral EDTA building up frequent dosing in the same way as with DMSA and ALA? TK--- for what purpose ? > > Has anybody done this or have any information about its possible value, benefits or contra-indications? > > I see EDTA chelates: Beryllium, Gadolinium, Lead (DMSA better), Tungsten, Manganese > Which is not that impressive really, but some people report astounding results with its use (I guess if not mercury poisoned) > > In Hair Test Book Andy Suggests to start EDTA every 8 hours starting with 1/4 mg per pound (to avoid nausea) and then doubling every few days until you reach 5-10mg/person. > > Any comments would be welcome. > > Thanks, > Dean > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 > > Hi, > I get see that EDTA is contra-indicated by Andy in 'Mercury Toxic' people. > " Agents which should never be used with mercury toxic people under any circumstances include chlorella, TTFD, and EDTA " 246 HTI > > So I'm not trying to confuse the issue and am clear that EDTA is NOT to be used in our mercury chelating protocols. > However, once you have completed chelation for mercury (perhaps confirmed by a hair test or symptoms) is it then possible to use Oral EDTA building up frequent dosing in the same way as with DMSA and ALA? > > Has anybody done this or have any information about its possible value, benefits or contra-indications? > When I used to work in research labs we used EDTA to precipitate proteins. EDTA denatures protein. We need our body proteins. EDTA chelates by a different mechanism from ALA, DMSA and DMPS. EDTA will chelate essential minerals like Mg, Zn. I would suggest that anyone thinking of using it keeps these things in mind when weighing the advantages/ disadvantages. The only thing I am aware of that EDTA is known to be useful for is removing calcified plaques from arteries. If I had a seriously blocked artery I would consider it for that purpose. I don't know how effective oral EDTA would be for that purpose, as compared to IV. Andy would likely be aware of what the research literature indicates. > I see EDTA chelates: Beryllium, Gadolinium, Lead (DMSA better), Tungsten, Manganese > Which is not that impressive really, but some people report astounding results with its use (I guess if not mercury poisoned) > Boyd Haley did some research and found that the EDTA/mercury complex is more toxic than mercury alone (100 x more, if my memory is correct). I think it was just one small study, and there is always more research needed before drawing conclusions. What I have noticed is that mercury poisoned people who use EDTA do report reactions that are consistant with Haley's findings. After amalgam removal I had an EDTA IV (I thought I was getting a Myer's cocktail) and it sure felt like I was about 100x more toxic. I had an emotional meltdown immediately after the IV. Later I had a horrible headache, that tylenol 3s (that's with codeine) didn't even take the edge off. I'm a person who usually never gets headaches. I suspect that the astounding results that people report may have something to do with cleaning out blocked arteries. J > In Hair Test Book Andy Suggests to start EDTA every 8 hours starting with 1/4 mg per pound (to avoid nausea) and then doubling every few days until you reach 5-10mg/person. > > Any comments would be welcome. > > Thanks, > Dean > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 > > Hi, > I get see that EDTA is contra-indicated by Andy in 'Mercury Toxic' people. > " Agents which should never be used with mercury toxic people under any circumstances include chlorella, TTFD, and EDTA " 246 HTI > > So I'm not trying to confuse the issue and am clear that EDTA is NOT to be used in our mercury chelating protocols. > However, once you have completed chelation for mercury (perhaps confirmed by a hair test or symptoms) is it then possible to use Oral EDTA building up frequent dosing in the same way as with DMSA and ALA? > > Has anybody done this or have any information about its possible value, benefits or contra-indications? > When I used to work in research labs we used EDTA to precipitate proteins. EDTA denatures protein. We need our body proteins. EDTA chelates by a different mechanism from ALA, DMSA and DMPS. EDTA will chelate essential minerals like Mg, Zn. I would suggest that anyone thinking of using it keeps these things in mind when weighing the advantages/ disadvantages. The only thing I am aware of that EDTA is known to be useful for is removing calcified plaques from arteries. If I had a seriously blocked artery I would consider it for that purpose. I don't know how effective oral EDTA would be for that purpose, as compared to IV. Andy would likely be aware of what the research literature indicates. > I see EDTA chelates: Beryllium, Gadolinium, Lead (DMSA better), Tungsten, Manganese > Which is not that impressive really, but some people report astounding results with its use (I guess if not mercury poisoned) > Boyd Haley did some research and found that the EDTA/mercury complex is more toxic than mercury alone (100 x more, if my memory is correct). I think it was just one small study, and there is always more research needed before drawing conclusions. What I have noticed is that mercury poisoned people who use EDTA do report reactions that are consistant with Haley's findings. After amalgam removal I had an EDTA IV (I thought I was getting a Myer's cocktail) and it sure felt like I was about 100x more toxic. I had an emotional meltdown immediately after the IV. Later I had a horrible headache, that tylenol 3s (that's with codeine) didn't even take the edge off. I'm a person who usually never gets headaches. I suspect that the astounding results that people report may have something to do with cleaning out blocked arteries. J > In Hair Test Book Andy Suggests to start EDTA every 8 hours starting with 1/4 mg per pound (to avoid nausea) and then doubling every few days until you reach 5-10mg/person. > > Any comments would be welcome. > > Thanks, > Dean > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 > > Hi, > I get see that EDTA is contra-indicated by Andy in 'Mercury Toxic' people. > " Agents which should never be used with mercury toxic people under any circumstances include chlorella, TTFD, and EDTA " 246 HTI > > So I'm not trying to confuse the issue and am clear that EDTA is NOT to be used in our mercury chelating protocols. > However, once you have completed chelation for mercury (perhaps confirmed by a hair test or symptoms) is it then possible to use Oral EDTA building up frequent dosing in the same way as with DMSA and ALA? > > Has anybody done this or have any information about its possible value, benefits or contra-indications? > When I used to work in research labs we used EDTA to precipitate proteins. EDTA denatures protein. We need our body proteins. EDTA chelates by a different mechanism from ALA, DMSA and DMPS. EDTA will chelate essential minerals like Mg, Zn. I would suggest that anyone thinking of using it keeps these things in mind when weighing the advantages/ disadvantages. The only thing I am aware of that EDTA is known to be useful for is removing calcified plaques from arteries. If I had a seriously blocked artery I would consider it for that purpose. I don't know how effective oral EDTA would be for that purpose, as compared to IV. Andy would likely be aware of what the research literature indicates. > I see EDTA chelates: Beryllium, Gadolinium, Lead (DMSA better), Tungsten, Manganese > Which is not that impressive really, but some people report astounding results with its use (I guess if not mercury poisoned) > Boyd Haley did some research and found that the EDTA/mercury complex is more toxic than mercury alone (100 x more, if my memory is correct). I think it was just one small study, and there is always more research needed before drawing conclusions. What I have noticed is that mercury poisoned people who use EDTA do report reactions that are consistant with Haley's findings. After amalgam removal I had an EDTA IV (I thought I was getting a Myer's cocktail) and it sure felt like I was about 100x more toxic. I had an emotional meltdown immediately after the IV. Later I had a horrible headache, that tylenol 3s (that's with codeine) didn't even take the edge off. I'm a person who usually never gets headaches. I suspect that the astounding results that people report may have something to do with cleaning out blocked arteries. J > In Hair Test Book Andy Suggests to start EDTA every 8 hours starting with 1/4 mg per pound (to avoid nausea) and then doubling every few days until you reach 5-10mg/person. > > Any comments would be welcome. > > Thanks, > Dean > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 > I guess my rationale behind the question was partly about maintenance programs after mercury is all out. > Do we do a round one a month or something like that? > > > I'd wondered whether EDTA had any role in post-mercury chelation. > If the person knows that lead is part of their problem I think DMSA works better. Lead is stored in bones and turns over about every 7 years or so, so about 7 years of slow chelation would be indicated for lead. I would only use EDTA for lead chelation if the person really can't tolerate DMSA (and I think that is quite rare, lots of people think they can't because they tried a dose that was too high). If I ever get beyond chelation I'll use ALA in some sort of routine for maintenance (because ALA has antioxidant properties as well as chelation properties, and it's a 'natural' component of the body). J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 > I guess my rationale behind the question was partly about maintenance programs after mercury is all out. > Do we do a round one a month or something like that? > > > I'd wondered whether EDTA had any role in post-mercury chelation. > If the person knows that lead is part of their problem I think DMSA works better. Lead is stored in bones and turns over about every 7 years or so, so about 7 years of slow chelation would be indicated for lead. I would only use EDTA for lead chelation if the person really can't tolerate DMSA (and I think that is quite rare, lots of people think they can't because they tried a dose that was too high). If I ever get beyond chelation I'll use ALA in some sort of routine for maintenance (because ALA has antioxidant properties as well as chelation properties, and it's a 'natural' component of the body). J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 > I guess my rationale behind the question was partly about maintenance programs after mercury is all out. > Do we do a round one a month or something like that? > > > I'd wondered whether EDTA had any role in post-mercury chelation. > If the person knows that lead is part of their problem I think DMSA works better. Lead is stored in bones and turns over about every 7 years or so, so about 7 years of slow chelation would be indicated for lead. I would only use EDTA for lead chelation if the person really can't tolerate DMSA (and I think that is quite rare, lots of people think they can't because they tried a dose that was too high). If I ever get beyond chelation I'll use ALA in some sort of routine for maintenance (because ALA has antioxidant properties as well as chelation properties, and it's a 'natural' component of the body). J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 > > > > Lead is stored in bones and turns over about every 7 > >years or so, so about 7 years of slow chelation would be indicated for > >lead. > > Hi , > What does it mean when it 'turns over about every 7 years or so'? Bone turnover is the natural bodily process of breakdown and replacement of bone tissue. I've been looking to see where I got the figure of '7 years' and can't find it. I could be wrong. In 'Hair Test Interpretation' Andy talks about lead chelation on p 244. He says 'several years' of chelation is necessary for someone with chronic lead poisoning. " Two or three years is most appropriate. " I couldn't find anyplace where he mentions how long it takes for bone to turnover. J > Thanks for the interesting response. > Dean > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 > > > > Lead is stored in bones and turns over about every 7 > >years or so, so about 7 years of slow chelation would be indicated for > >lead. > > Hi , > What does it mean when it 'turns over about every 7 years or so'? Bone turnover is the natural bodily process of breakdown and replacement of bone tissue. I've been looking to see where I got the figure of '7 years' and can't find it. I could be wrong. In 'Hair Test Interpretation' Andy talks about lead chelation on p 244. He says 'several years' of chelation is necessary for someone with chronic lead poisoning. " Two or three years is most appropriate. " I couldn't find anyplace where he mentions how long it takes for bone to turnover. J > Thanks for the interesting response. > Dean > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 > > > > Lead is stored in bones and turns over about every 7 > >years or so, so about 7 years of slow chelation would be indicated for > >lead. > > Hi , > What does it mean when it 'turns over about every 7 years or so'? Bone turnover is the natural bodily process of breakdown and replacement of bone tissue. I've been looking to see where I got the figure of '7 years' and can't find it. I could be wrong. In 'Hair Test Interpretation' Andy talks about lead chelation on p 244. He says 'several years' of chelation is necessary for someone with chronic lead poisoning. " Two or three years is most appropriate. " I couldn't find anyplace where he mentions how long it takes for bone to turnover. J > Thanks for the interesting response. > Dean > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 > > Boyd Haley did some research and found that the EDTA/mercury complex > > is more toxic than mercury alone (100 x more, if my memory is > > correct). > > IMR - For how long? Forever, as long as it is in your body, or just > when the EDTA is freely circulating? Any ideas on that? > I read about it in an old DAMS publication a long time ago. I don't remember the details, but I think he was probably testing in vitro (maybe with cell cultures?), not in vivo. I doubt that anyone has followed what happens with EDTA and mercury inside real people. It wouldn't be that easy to study. We do know that EDTA doesn't remove mercury from people, but what happens when they contact each other is a mystery. At least you have done quite a bit of chelation. Hopefully your mercury body burden is down somewhat. > > > What I have noticed is that mercury poisoned people who use EDTA do > > report reactions that > > are consistant with Haley's findings. > > IMR - I did too, but not with this particular formulation and this type > of EDTA. (EDTA comes in many forms) > and you have been chelating the mercury out.... When I had the EDTA IV right after amalgam removal it had to be about the worst time. And, there's an enormous difference between getting a ton of EDTA directly into the bloodstream compared to small doses every 8 h orally. The same doc that gave me the EDTA IV convinced me to try oral EDTA. The nausea was horrible at doses way, way less than what he told me to take. That was all happening about the same time as I was wondering who in the heck Andy Cutler was anyway, and was starting to read his words. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 > > Boyd Haley did some research and found that the EDTA/mercury complex > > is more toxic than mercury alone (100 x more, if my memory is > > correct). > > IMR - For how long? Forever, as long as it is in your body, or just > when the EDTA is freely circulating? Any ideas on that? > I read about it in an old DAMS publication a long time ago. I don't remember the details, but I think he was probably testing in vitro (maybe with cell cultures?), not in vivo. I doubt that anyone has followed what happens with EDTA and mercury inside real people. It wouldn't be that easy to study. We do know that EDTA doesn't remove mercury from people, but what happens when they contact each other is a mystery. At least you have done quite a bit of chelation. Hopefully your mercury body burden is down somewhat. > > > What I have noticed is that mercury poisoned people who use EDTA do > > report reactions that > > are consistant with Haley's findings. > > IMR - I did too, but not with this particular formulation and this type > of EDTA. (EDTA comes in many forms) > and you have been chelating the mercury out.... When I had the EDTA IV right after amalgam removal it had to be about the worst time. And, there's an enormous difference between getting a ton of EDTA directly into the bloodstream compared to small doses every 8 h orally. The same doc that gave me the EDTA IV convinced me to try oral EDTA. The nausea was horrible at doses way, way less than what he told me to take. That was all happening about the same time as I was wondering who in the heck Andy Cutler was anyway, and was starting to read his words. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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