Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Andy, I agree. We're only as free as the right to speech we grant those who differ with us. We must always be careful of stifling free speech. Because, someday the speech that's stifled may indeed be ours. History has a way of " flipflopping " to use a popular term. Today's hero may be tomorrow's bum. Absolutists will disagree with me, but absolutists have been crushed by avalanches they refused to acknowledge until they were under tons of snow and rocks. " Virtue " is a common theme of political discourse these days. So, on the subject of virtue, morals and " family values, " which prominent politician, an unceasing advocate and champion of morality and family values told his first wife he was divorcing her while she was ill with cancer, then told his second wife he was divorcing her while she was celebrating her mother's 84th birthday, and admitted that he had had anextra-marital affair of many years' duration while married to his second wife? This guy pointed out Bill Clinton's transgressions with a straight face. What " National Mayor " installed his live-in in the Mayor's Mansion before his divorce was final, prompting his wife to go to court to have her thrown out of his publically provided digs? What champion of morality, family values, and an advocate of sending all drug offenders to prison for life is an addict, used a household servant to procure his illicit drugs and is still under inverstigation for felony drug offenses? What General of the Army and later President of the US kept a mistress during most of his professional career, who served as his driver when he was a general, and whose First Lady was a lush who kept a whiskey bottle on the nightstand of her bed in the White House? (Gerald Ford was never a general). What prominent radio and TV bloviator (a great word he taught me) recently paid off a lady to keep her mouth shut about allegations of sexual harassment? What self-proclaimed arbitor of morals admitted to gambling away millions of dollars at casinos? All of these people are " left winged liberals. " Right? WRONG! All these people are " traditional, family values conservatives. " Do the research and you'll find out who if they are unless you don't read or have the other disabilities I mentioned. If you cannot find out, write me and I'll identify them for you. So, you see, truth, beauty and virtue are truly in the eye of the beholder. We all see life through the filters we choose. Similar examples of hypocracy may be found in any political, religious, or social group. I just chose conservatives to make a point. I could as easily have chosen Methodists. Oops. Our President is now a Methodist, after having been of several other persuasions. Instead of attempting to stifle free speech, I believe that we ought to seek it out. Listening to the absurd rantings of of madmen can sometimes be the cheapest way to learn an important lesson. Satire is the most potent political sword. If the swipe of the sword cuts, it may have found a vulnerable spot. If a comedian offends you, it's probably because he or she is targeting you for offense, and if you're " shocked " by the speech, perhaps you're a little too secure in your beliefs. The house built upon the rock cannot be shaken. Who the gods would destroy, they first make mad. And finally, if you're 100% sure that your beliefs are truth supreme, you either don't read, or you're blind, deaf, dumb, and not allowed to learn Braille. The person who never questions the " truth du jour " enjoys life best in a totalitarian state. Blind obedience requires little thought. Hobbes would have loved you. Think about it. Or don't. It's your choice. The United States of America is practically the only places in the world that has, so far, allowed the greatest freedom of thought and expression. That freedom is fragile indeed and must be reaffirmed daily. How tempting it is to tell others just to shut up, or better, to shut them up through the power of the state. The country that gave us most of our great legal concepts, the UK, is nowhere close to us in allowing freedom of speech. Newspapers can be fined and reporters and editors imprisoned for breaching the " Offical Secrets Act. " Details of lawsuits are kept secret, so that ordinary people never know the outcomes. Our sytem may not be the best, but it is better than all the others in the world. Sir Winston Churchill said as much: “'Democracy is the worst form of government, with the exception of all others.' (Note: historians disagree about the exact wording of the quote, but a sufficient number of them attribute the essential thought to Churchill.) So maybe we should listen to Al en and hear what he has to say. If he's so full of shit, it will float quickly and we'll see it. But if what he says stings, then ask why. Today, I am a confessed independent thinker with a lot of libertarian tendencies, some social liberalism, and a lot of economic conservatism. I regularly read, listen to or watch Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity and Colmes, Begala and Tucker Carlson, Carville and Novak, Jim Hightower, Molly Ivins, Bill Kristol, s, NPR, and lots and lots more. One of my favorite commentators is Cal , a religious and political conservative, who is one of the most eclectic and brilliant men I have ever observed, and of the above named, the one I would most like to meet. I used to hate and despise him. The more I learn, the more I question what I know. Tomorrow I may truly see the light and become a member of The Flat Earth Society. Who knows. But I'll listen to their arguments and decide for myself what to believe. I will fight to the death for their right to be wrong. Will you? Incidentally, as I write this, American soldiers are undoubtedly being wounded and killed. What is it REALLY that they're fighting for? What indeed are we seeking to gain by our Iraq expedition? While you're thinking about that, I'll tell you what I am thinking. First, they are fighting for our internal security and the security of the world. Second, they are fighting for the preservation of our Bill of Rights, that most magnificent of documents which guarantees us the right to free speech, the right to keep and bear arms, the right to be secure in our homes and free from unreasonable searches and seizures of property, the right to keep our mouths shut when we need to and not have confessions tortured out of us, the right to be treated equally no matter what our race, gender, religion, and national origen, and yes, our God bestowed sexual selves. They are fighting for the liberty of women everywhere. For the freedom of women to appear in public without their husbands or a male escort, without a veil, without a ridiculous garment that renders them a ghost spector, the right for them to drive a car, go to school, hold a job, and a thousand other things that women in the free world take for granted; and, as I believe, the right of a woman solely to determine how her body is used for procreation. They are fighting for all of us who are sitting here in our secure dwellings or workplaces, confident that we'll get up tomorrow and go to work without being killed by a suicide bomber, a sniper, a roadside bomb, a rocket propelled grenade, a morter shell, or a cannister of nerve gas. Whether we are liberal, conservative, independent, libertarian, or clueless, we should at this moment thank those who serve us, and we should honor them. They do not choose the missions they are sent to carry out. We may criticize the decision to send them, and if we truly have doubts, we have the right and mandate to air those doubts. Truth will prevail, and truth can withstand any attack. A truth that cannot withstand scrutiny is a false truth. But we must never criticize the troops who carry out the orders of our leaders. They deserve our everlasting praise and devotion, and if we are religious, our prayers for their safe return. If we are not religious, then they deserve whatever honor that is the highest that we can bestow upon them. And when they return they deserve the best our country can do for them to care for them and make them as nearly whole as we can given what they have been through and lost as a result of their devotion to duty. That means expending the resources necessary to get the best treatment, rehab, and prosthetics for them. (Are we doing that? NO!) As I like to say: Bottom line: Be thankful that we allow people like Al en and even to live. In China today they'd both be in prison. In the Taliban's Afganistan they'd be executed, as they would be in Sunni or Baathist Iraq. In Saudi Arabia they'd be in prison and undergoing torture at this moment, wouldn't they? And their books and films would never have seen the light of day. If you wish that folks like en and could be shut up and stifled, be careful what you wish for. Because next year, it could be you. Salute our soldiers and veterans. And salute our Constitution and Bill of Rights, which they fight for. GG > > If you really think about it, that's why we live in this great country, so > other people can have opinions also. We do not have to agree but should > this > forum be in charge of the removal of free speech? Just because someone else > has > another opinion. Oh well, what do I know? > > Andy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 It is nice to hear Civil War era history from somebody who saw it first hand! BEB E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX Veterans Day Message Andy, I agree. We're only as free as the right to speech we grant those who differ with us. We must always be careful of stifling free speech. Because, someday the speech that's stifled may indeed be ours. History has a way of " flipflopping " to use a popular term. Today's hero may be tomorrow's bum. Absolutists will disagree with me, but absolutists have been crushed by avalanches they refused to acknowledge until they were under tons of snow and rocks. " Virtue " is a common theme of political discourse these days. So, on the subject of virtue, morals and " family values, " which prominent politician, an unceasing advocate and champion of morality and family values told his first wife he was divorcing her while she was ill with cancer, then told his second wife he was divorcing her while she was celebrating her mother's 84th birthday, and admitted that he had had anextra-marital affair of many years' duration while married to his second wife? This guy pointed out Bill Clinton's transgressions with a straight face. What " National Mayor " installed his live-in in the Mayor's Mansion before his divorce was final, prompting his wife to go to court to have her thrown out of his publically provided digs? What champion of morality, family values, and an advocate of sending all drug offenders to prison for life is an addict, used a household servant to procure his illicit drugs and is still under inverstigation for felony drug offenses? What General of the Army and later President of the US kept a mistress during most of his professional career, who served as his driver when he was a general, and whose First Lady was a lush who kept a whiskey bottle on the nightstand of her bed in the White House? (Gerald Ford was never a general). What prominent radio and TV bloviator (a great word he taught me) recently paid off a lady to keep her mouth shut about allegations of sexual harassment? What self-proclaimed arbitor of morals admitted to gambling away millions of dollars at casinos? All of these people are " left winged liberals. " Right? WRONG! All these people are " traditional, family values conservatives. " Do the research and you'll find out who if they are unless you don't read or have the other disabilities I mentioned. If you cannot find out, write me and I'll identify them for you. So, you see, truth, beauty and virtue are truly in the eye of the beholder. We all see life through the filters we choose. Similar examples of hypocracy may be found in any political, religious, or social group. I just chose conservatives to make a point. I could as easily have chosen Methodists. Oops. Our President is now a Methodist, after having been of several other persuasions. Instead of attempting to stifle free speech, I believe that we ought to seek it out. Listening to the absurd rantings of of madmen can sometimes be the cheapest way to learn an important lesson. Satire is the most potent political sword. If the swipe of the sword cuts, it may have found a vulnerable spot. If a comedian offends you, it's probably because he or she is targeting you for offense, and if you're " shocked " by the speech, perhaps you're a little too secure in your beliefs. The house built upon the rock cannot be shaken. Who the gods would destroy, they first make mad. And finally, if you're 100% sure that your beliefs are truth supreme, you either don't read, or you're blind, deaf, dumb, and not allowed to learn Braille. The person who never questions the " truth du jour " enjoys life best in a totalitarian state. Blind obedience requires little thought. Hobbes would have loved you. Think about it. Or don't. It's your choice. The United States of America is practically the only places in the world that has, so far, allowed the greatest freedom of thought and expression. That freedom is fragile indeed and must be reaffirmed daily. How tempting it is to tell others just to shut up, or better, to shut them up through the power of the state. The country that gave us most of our great legal concepts, the UK, is nowhere close to us in allowing freedom of speech. Newspapers can be fined and reporters and editors imprisoned for breaching the " Offical Secrets Act. " Details of lawsuits are kept secret, so that ordinary people never know the outcomes. Our sytem may not be the best, but it is better than all the others in the world. Sir Winston Churchill said as much: “'Democracy is the worst form of government, with the exception of all others.' (Note: historians disagree about the exact wording of the quote, but a sufficient number of them attribute the essential thought to Churchill.) So maybe we should listen to Al en and hear what he has to say. If he's so full of shit, it will float quickly and we'll see it. But if what he says stings, then ask why. Today, I am a confessed independent thinker with a lot of libertarian tendencies, some social liberalism, and a lot of economic conservatism. I regularly read, listen to or watch Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity and Colmes, Begala and Tucker Carlson, Carville and Novak, Jim Hightower, Molly Ivins, Bill Kristol, s, NPR, and lots and lots more. One of my favorite commentators is Cal , a religious and political conservative, who is one of the most eclectic and brilliant men I have ever observed, and of the above named, the one I would most like to meet. I used to hate and despise him. The more I learn, the more I question what I know. Tomorrow I may truly see the light and become a member of The Flat Earth Society. Who knows. But I'll listen to their arguments and decide for myself what to believe. I will fight to the death for their right to be wrong. Will you? Incidentally, as I write this, American soldiers are undoubtedly being wounded and killed. What is it REALLY that they're fighting for? What indeed are we seeking to gain by our Iraq expedition? While you're thinking about that, I'll tell you what I am thinking. First, they are fighting for our internal security and the security of the world. Second, they are fighting for the preservation of our Bill of Rights, that most magnificent of documents which guarantees us the right to free speech, the right to keep and bear arms, the right to be secure in our homes and free from unreasonable searches and seizures of property, the right to keep our mouths shut when we need to and not have confessions tortured out of us, the right to be treated equally no matter what our race, gender, religion, and national origen, and yes, our God bestowed sexual selves. They are fighting for the liberty of women everywhere. For the freedom of women to appear in public without their husbands or a male escort, without a veil, without a ridiculous garment that renders them a ghost spector, the right for them to drive a car, go to school, hold a job, and a thousand other things that women in the free world take for granted; and, as I believe, the right of a woman solely to determine how her body is used for procreation. They are fighting for all of us who are sitting here in our secure dwellings or workplaces, confident that we'll get up tomorrow and go to work without being killed by a suicide bomber, a sniper, a roadside bomb, a rocket propelled grenade, a morter shell, or a cannister of nerve gas. Whether we are liberal, conservative, independent, libertarian, or clueless, we should at this moment thank those who serve us, and we should honor them. They do not choose the missions they are sent to carry out. We may criticize the decision to send them, and if we truly have doubts, we have the right and mandate to air those doubts. Truth will prevail, and truth can withstand any attack. A truth that cannot withstand scrutiny is a false truth. But we must never criticize the troops who carry out the orders of our leaders. They deserve our everlasting praise and devotion, and if we are religious, our prayers for their safe return. If we are not religious, then they deserve whatever honor that is the highest that we can bestow upon them. And when they return they deserve the best our country can do for them to care for them and make them as nearly whole as we can given what they have been through and lost as a result of their devotion to duty. That means expending the resources necessary to get the best treatment, rehab, and prosthetics for them. (Are we doing that? NO!) As I like to say: Bottom line: Be thankful that we allow people like Al en and even to live. In China today they'd both be in prison. In the Taliban's Afganistan they'd be executed, as they would be in Sunni or Baathist Iraq. In Saudi Arabia they'd be in prison and undergoing torture at this moment, wouldn't they? And their books and films would never have seen the light of day. If you wish that folks like en and could be shut up and stifled, be careful what you wish for. Because next year, it could be you. Salute our soldiers and veterans. And salute our Constitution and Bill of Rights, which they fight for. GG > > If you really think about it, that's why we live in this great > country, so other people can have opinions also. We do not have to > agree but should this forum be in charge of the removal of free > speech? Just because someone else has another opinion. Oh well, what > do I know? > > Andy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 It is nice to hear Civil War era history from somebody who saw it first hand! BEB E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX Veterans Day Message Andy, I agree. We're only as free as the right to speech we grant those who differ with us. We must always be careful of stifling free speech. Because, someday the speech that's stifled may indeed be ours. History has a way of " flipflopping " to use a popular term. Today's hero may be tomorrow's bum. Absolutists will disagree with me, but absolutists have been crushed by avalanches they refused to acknowledge until they were under tons of snow and rocks. " Virtue " is a common theme of political discourse these days. So, on the subject of virtue, morals and " family values, " which prominent politician, an unceasing advocate and champion of morality and family values told his first wife he was divorcing her while she was ill with cancer, then told his second wife he was divorcing her while she was celebrating her mother's 84th birthday, and admitted that he had had anextra-marital affair of many years' duration while married to his second wife? This guy pointed out Bill Clinton's transgressions with a straight face. What " National Mayor " installed his live-in in the Mayor's Mansion before his divorce was final, prompting his wife to go to court to have her thrown out of his publically provided digs? What champion of morality, family values, and an advocate of sending all drug offenders to prison for life is an addict, used a household servant to procure his illicit drugs and is still under inverstigation for felony drug offenses? What General of the Army and later President of the US kept a mistress during most of his professional career, who served as his driver when he was a general, and whose First Lady was a lush who kept a whiskey bottle on the nightstand of her bed in the White House? (Gerald Ford was never a general). What prominent radio and TV bloviator (a great word he taught me) recently paid off a lady to keep her mouth shut about allegations of sexual harassment? What self-proclaimed arbitor of morals admitted to gambling away millions of dollars at casinos? All of these people are " left winged liberals. " Right? WRONG! All these people are " traditional, family values conservatives. " Do the research and you'll find out who if they are unless you don't read or have the other disabilities I mentioned. If you cannot find out, write me and I'll identify them for you. So, you see, truth, beauty and virtue are truly in the eye of the beholder. We all see life through the filters we choose. Similar examples of hypocracy may be found in any political, religious, or social group. I just chose conservatives to make a point. I could as easily have chosen Methodists. Oops. Our President is now a Methodist, after having been of several other persuasions. Instead of attempting to stifle free speech, I believe that we ought to seek it out. Listening to the absurd rantings of of madmen can sometimes be the cheapest way to learn an important lesson. Satire is the most potent political sword. If the swipe of the sword cuts, it may have found a vulnerable spot. If a comedian offends you, it's probably because he or she is targeting you for offense, and if you're " shocked " by the speech, perhaps you're a little too secure in your beliefs. The house built upon the rock cannot be shaken. Who the gods would destroy, they first make mad. And finally, if you're 100% sure that your beliefs are truth supreme, you either don't read, or you're blind, deaf, dumb, and not allowed to learn Braille. The person who never questions the " truth du jour " enjoys life best in a totalitarian state. Blind obedience requires little thought. Hobbes would have loved you. Think about it. Or don't. It's your choice. The United States of America is practically the only places in the world that has, so far, allowed the greatest freedom of thought and expression. That freedom is fragile indeed and must be reaffirmed daily. How tempting it is to tell others just to shut up, or better, to shut them up through the power of the state. The country that gave us most of our great legal concepts, the UK, is nowhere close to us in allowing freedom of speech. Newspapers can be fined and reporters and editors imprisoned for breaching the " Offical Secrets Act. " Details of lawsuits are kept secret, so that ordinary people never know the outcomes. Our sytem may not be the best, but it is better than all the others in the world. Sir Winston Churchill said as much: “'Democracy is the worst form of government, with the exception of all others.' (Note: historians disagree about the exact wording of the quote, but a sufficient number of them attribute the essential thought to Churchill.) So maybe we should listen to Al en and hear what he has to say. If he's so full of shit, it will float quickly and we'll see it. But if what he says stings, then ask why. Today, I am a confessed independent thinker with a lot of libertarian tendencies, some social liberalism, and a lot of economic conservatism. I regularly read, listen to or watch Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity and Colmes, Begala and Tucker Carlson, Carville and Novak, Jim Hightower, Molly Ivins, Bill Kristol, s, NPR, and lots and lots more. One of my favorite commentators is Cal , a religious and political conservative, who is one of the most eclectic and brilliant men I have ever observed, and of the above named, the one I would most like to meet. I used to hate and despise him. The more I learn, the more I question what I know. Tomorrow I may truly see the light and become a member of The Flat Earth Society. Who knows. But I'll listen to their arguments and decide for myself what to believe. I will fight to the death for their right to be wrong. Will you? Incidentally, as I write this, American soldiers are undoubtedly being wounded and killed. What is it REALLY that they're fighting for? What indeed are we seeking to gain by our Iraq expedition? While you're thinking about that, I'll tell you what I am thinking. First, they are fighting for our internal security and the security of the world. Second, they are fighting for the preservation of our Bill of Rights, that most magnificent of documents which guarantees us the right to free speech, the right to keep and bear arms, the right to be secure in our homes and free from unreasonable searches and seizures of property, the right to keep our mouths shut when we need to and not have confessions tortured out of us, the right to be treated equally no matter what our race, gender, religion, and national origen, and yes, our God bestowed sexual selves. They are fighting for the liberty of women everywhere. For the freedom of women to appear in public without their husbands or a male escort, without a veil, without a ridiculous garment that renders them a ghost spector, the right for them to drive a car, go to school, hold a job, and a thousand other things that women in the free world take for granted; and, as I believe, the right of a woman solely to determine how her body is used for procreation. They are fighting for all of us who are sitting here in our secure dwellings or workplaces, confident that we'll get up tomorrow and go to work without being killed by a suicide bomber, a sniper, a roadside bomb, a rocket propelled grenade, a morter shell, or a cannister of nerve gas. Whether we are liberal, conservative, independent, libertarian, or clueless, we should at this moment thank those who serve us, and we should honor them. They do not choose the missions they are sent to carry out. We may criticize the decision to send them, and if we truly have doubts, we have the right and mandate to air those doubts. Truth will prevail, and truth can withstand any attack. A truth that cannot withstand scrutiny is a false truth. But we must never criticize the troops who carry out the orders of our leaders. They deserve our everlasting praise and devotion, and if we are religious, our prayers for their safe return. If we are not religious, then they deserve whatever honor that is the highest that we can bestow upon them. And when they return they deserve the best our country can do for them to care for them and make them as nearly whole as we can given what they have been through and lost as a result of their devotion to duty. That means expending the resources necessary to get the best treatment, rehab, and prosthetics for them. (Are we doing that? NO!) As I like to say: Bottom line: Be thankful that we allow people like Al en and even to live. In China today they'd both be in prison. In the Taliban's Afganistan they'd be executed, as they would be in Sunni or Baathist Iraq. In Saudi Arabia they'd be in prison and undergoing torture at this moment, wouldn't they? And their books and films would never have seen the light of day. If you wish that folks like en and could be shut up and stifled, be careful what you wish for. Because next year, it could be you. Salute our soldiers and veterans. And salute our Constitution and Bill of Rights, which they fight for. GG > > If you really think about it, that's why we live in this great > country, so other people can have opinions also. We do not have to > agree but should this forum be in charge of the removal of free > speech? Just because someone else has another opinion. Oh well, what > do I know? > > Andy > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 , Thanks. I watched you do the first field amputation I ever saw, at Gettysburg, I think it was. After that, you were General Lee's personal physician, weren't you? GG > It is nice to hear Civil War era history from somebody who saw it first > hand! > > BEB > > > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP > Midlothian, TX > E.(Gene) Gandy POB 1651 Albany, TX 76430 wegandy1938@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 , Thanks. I watched you do the first field amputation I ever saw, at Gettysburg, I think it was. After that, you were General Lee's personal physician, weren't you? GG > It is nice to hear Civil War era history from somebody who saw it first > hand! > > BEB > > > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP > Midlothian, TX > E.(Gene) Gandy POB 1651 Albany, TX 76430 wegandy1938@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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