Re: Gotta quit smoking, dammit

[Guest guest]

This is really interesting, dixie. I guess I never considered the

possibility that all the junk they add to cigarettes actually does

make them more addictive. Have you seen the " target market "

commercials, with teenage kids reading portions of confidential memos

from tobacco companies?

MN where I live won a class-action lawsuit against tobacco companies,

so they reimburse the government, somehow, for the healthcare costs

associated with smoking. I don't think I agree with that, especially

when I see smokers huddled in below-zero weather to smoke. It seems to

be a way, not only of recovering health care costs, but of

marginalizing smokers as a group.

Like Jim, I fear smoking could possibly be a felony soon. Perhaps more

prohibition is the answer to the current trend toward evangelism as a

cure for bad habits.

judith

> You might try Winstons or another additive free cigaratte, such as

American

> Spirits.

>

> Open disclosure: I used to work for Santa Fe Natural Tobacco

Company, the

> maker of additive-free American Spirits. We kept getting these

letters

> saying, " Once I started smoking your brand, it was so much easier to

quit! "

> It wasn't just a few letters, but quite a number. We learned that

there are

> over 400 different chemicals put into cigarettes by most cigarette

> manufacturers. (Not every cigarette will have all 400--some are

flavor

> enhancers, etc--but each brand of cigarette contains a w hopping

load of

> chemicals. And these are chemicals added in the processing plant,

not when

> the tobacco is growing in the field.) it seems that some of the

chemicals

> they add to cigarettes enhance the addiction--that nicotine,

addictive

> though it is, is not as addictive as the other crap they add to

cigarettes.

> American Spirits take a bit of getting used to, as your body is

used to

> the other crap, but once you do get used to them, it's easier to

quit

> entirely.

>

> You can get American Spirits via phone/mail order or through tobacco

shops.

> Some convenience stores sell them, but it's not that widespread. You

could

> also try Winstons, as they are now supposedly additive-free.

>

> Good luck on kicking the addiction.

[Guest guest]

This is really interesting, dixie. I guess I never considered the

possibility that all the junk they add to cigarettes actually does

make them more addictive. Have you seen the " target market "

commercials, with teenage kids reading portions of confidential memos

from tobacco companies?

MN where I live won a class-action lawsuit against tobacco companies,

so they reimburse the government, somehow, for the healthcare costs

associated with smoking. I don't think I agree with that, especially

when I see smokers huddled in below-zero weather to smoke. It seems to

be a way, not only of recovering health care costs, but of

marginalizing smokers as a group.

Like Jim, I fear smoking could possibly be a felony soon. Perhaps more

prohibition is the answer to the current trend toward evangelism as a

cure for bad habits.

judith

> You might try Winstons or another additive free cigaratte, such as

American

> Spirits.

>

> Open disclosure: I used to work for Santa Fe Natural Tobacco

Company, the

> maker of additive-free American Spirits. We kept getting these

letters

> saying, " Once I started smoking your brand, it was so much easier to

quit! "

> It wasn't just a few letters, but quite a number. We learned that

there are

> over 400 different chemicals put into cigarettes by most cigarette

> manufacturers. (Not every cigarette will have all 400--some are

flavor

> enhancers, etc--but each brand of cigarette contains a w hopping

load of

> chemicals. And these are chemicals added in the processing plant,

not when

> the tobacco is growing in the field.) it seems that some of the

chemicals

> they add to cigarettes enhance the addiction--that nicotine,

addictive

> though it is, is not as addictive as the other crap they add to

cigarettes.

> American Spirits take a bit of getting used to, as your body is

used to

> the other crap, but once you do get used to them, it's easier to

quit

> entirely.

>

> You can get American Spirits via phone/mail order or through tobacco

shops.

> Some convenience stores sell them, but it's not that widespread. You

could

> also try Winstons, as they are now supposedly additive-free.

>

> Good luck on kicking the addiction.

[Guest guest]

This is really interesting, dixie. I guess I never considered the

possibility that all the junk they add to cigarettes actually does

make them more addictive. Have you seen the " target market "

commercials, with teenage kids reading portions of confidential memos

from tobacco companies?

MN where I live won a class-action lawsuit against tobacco companies,

so they reimburse the government, somehow, for the healthcare costs

associated with smoking. I don't think I agree with that, especially

when I see smokers huddled in below-zero weather to smoke. It seems to

be a way, not only of recovering health care costs, but of

marginalizing smokers as a group.

Like Jim, I fear smoking could possibly be a felony soon. Perhaps more

prohibition is the answer to the current trend toward evangelism as a

cure for bad habits.

judith

> You might try Winstons or another additive free cigaratte, such as

American

> Spirits.

>

> Open disclosure: I used to work for Santa Fe Natural Tobacco

Company, the

> maker of additive-free American Spirits. We kept getting these

letters

> saying, " Once I started smoking your brand, it was so much easier to

quit! "

> It wasn't just a few letters, but quite a number. We learned that

there are

> over 400 different chemicals put into cigarettes by most cigarette

> manufacturers. (Not every cigarette will have all 400--some are

flavor

> enhancers, etc--but each brand of cigarette contains a w hopping

load of

> chemicals. And these are chemicals added in the processing plant,

not when

> the tobacco is growing in the field.) it seems that some of the

chemicals

> they add to cigarettes enhance the addiction--that nicotine,

addictive

> though it is, is not as addictive as the other crap they add to

cigarettes.

> American Spirits take a bit of getting used to, as your body is

used to

> the other crap, but once you do get used to them, it's easier to

quit

> entirely.

>

> You can get American Spirits via phone/mail order or through tobacco

shops.

> Some convenience stores sell them, but it's not that widespread. You

could

> also try Winstons, as they are now supposedly additive-free.

>

> Good luck on kicking the addiction.

[Guest guest]

At 11:20 AM 2/9/01 -0000, mrreindeer2000@... wrote:

>I went to see my ENT doc, referred by my primary care physician. He

>told me to quit smoking, then proceeded to stick a very sharp object

>in my ear and pull out part of my brain. He says I should hear better

>now.

>

>Anyway, I switched from regular Camels to Camel Lights, then Marlboro

>Ultra Lights (Slogan: " All the cancer, none of the fun. " ) It's like

>smoking paper.

I thought what someone else said about " the best indicator of someone

who will quit is that the have tried and failed. " I quit for two or three

weeks in 1991. In 1992 I started running (actually, more like jogging or

trying to jog)), and smoked my last cigarette a few weeks later. I was

moderately overweight and hoping to lose some weight too.

For the next several years I ran the Peachtree Road Race (the 10k

held in Atlanta on July 4, run by 40,000 to 60,000 people (depending on

the entry limits they set)). I also started biking and swimming. In 1996

I did some sprint triathlons and a half marathon. In 1997 I did an

olympic-distance triathlon.

I'm ashamed to say I haven't done much since, especially in the last

year - I've gained weight, and have only done one or two 2-mile runs a

week in the last year or so. There's been snow on the ground for over a

month, and it hasn't looked safe to run, and its also cold. OTOH, I see

lots of other people out running.

But I still haven't smoked or been tempted to smoke.

-----

This post (except quoted portions) Copyright 2001, Ben Bradley.

http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

At 11:20 AM 2/9/01 -0000, mrreindeer2000@... wrote:

>I went to see my ENT doc, referred by my primary care physician. He

>told me to quit smoking, then proceeded to stick a very sharp object

>in my ear and pull out part of my brain. He says I should hear better

>now.

>

>Anyway, I switched from regular Camels to Camel Lights, then Marlboro

>Ultra Lights (Slogan: " All the cancer, none of the fun. " ) It's like

>smoking paper.

I thought what someone else said about " the best indicator of someone

who will quit is that the have tried and failed. " I quit for two or three

weeks in 1991. In 1992 I started running (actually, more like jogging or

trying to jog)), and smoked my last cigarette a few weeks later. I was

moderately overweight and hoping to lose some weight too.

For the next several years I ran the Peachtree Road Race (the 10k

held in Atlanta on July 4, run by 40,000 to 60,000 people (depending on

the entry limits they set)). I also started biking and swimming. In 1996

I did some sprint triathlons and a half marathon. In 1997 I did an

olympic-distance triathlon.

I'm ashamed to say I haven't done much since, especially in the last

year - I've gained weight, and have only done one or two 2-mile runs a

week in the last year or so. There's been snow on the ground for over a

month, and it hasn't looked safe to run, and its also cold. OTOH, I see

lots of other people out running.

But I still haven't smoked or been tempted to smoke.

-----

This post (except quoted portions) Copyright 2001, Ben Bradley.

http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

At 11:20 AM 2/9/01 -0000, mrreindeer2000@... wrote:

>I went to see my ENT doc, referred by my primary care physician. He

>told me to quit smoking, then proceeded to stick a very sharp object

>in my ear and pull out part of my brain. He says I should hear better

>now.

>

>Anyway, I switched from regular Camels to Camel Lights, then Marlboro

>Ultra Lights (Slogan: " All the cancer, none of the fun. " ) It's like

>smoking paper.

I thought what someone else said about " the best indicator of someone

who will quit is that the have tried and failed. " I quit for two or three

weeks in 1991. In 1992 I started running (actually, more like jogging or

trying to jog)), and smoked my last cigarette a few weeks later. I was

moderately overweight and hoping to lose some weight too.

For the next several years I ran the Peachtree Road Race (the 10k

held in Atlanta on July 4, run by 40,000 to 60,000 people (depending on

the entry limits they set)). I also started biking and swimming. In 1996

I did some sprint triathlons and a half marathon. In 1997 I did an

olympic-distance triathlon.

I'm ashamed to say I haven't done much since, especially in the last

year - I've gained weight, and have only done one or two 2-mile runs a

week in the last year or so. There's been snow on the ground for over a

month, and it hasn't looked safe to run, and its also cold. OTOH, I see

lots of other people out running.

But I still haven't smoked or been tempted to smoke.

-----

This post (except quoted portions) Copyright 2001, Ben Bradley.

http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

If we're going to discuss side effects, which in my case, definitely

come under the " more than you wanted to know " category, we better

take the discussion off list...;-) I suspect I felt initial " placebo "

effects regarding cravings (a definite decrease in the number of

times I reached for a cigarette), but now, on day 4, I'm not noticing

any decrease in cravings--or should I call it my automatic reflex of

reaching for a smoke?

It's odd, 13 years ago, when I delivered my twins by C-section, I

developed bronchitis and didn't smoke while I was in the hospital--

much too painfull to cough with that huge incision in my belly. After

I came home from the hospital, I tried one cigarette, it tasted awful

and I didn't smoke again for over 3 years. I firmly believe that it

was the AA brainwashing that led me to smoke agin. I thought I wanted

to drink, but AA " conventional wisdom " (BS) said that it was better

to smoke than drink, so off I went. Today, I know that I would have

been much more likely to stop the booze than the cigarettes.

Please don't misunderstand me, I take full reponsibility for the

starting and quitting, I just believe that my thinking process was

definitely influenced by the AA talk that anything was better than

drinking.

During the time I was in AA, I took most things with a grain of salt,

and even though at one point, I was almost caught up in " AA think " --

as if it was the answer to all problems-- I gradually became more and

more skeptical. I began to see the abuses and nonesense, and started

speaking my mind about those things in meetings. It seemed to do

little good, and I eventually quit meetings. After I joined this

list, I began to see just how influenced my thinking was by AA. It

seems to take a long time to uncover and root out all the

nonesensical thinking that AA planted in my brain. I am always

stunned when I discover one more remnant of AA brainwashing in my

thinking and have to pull it our under the cold, clear light of day

for examination.

The really weird part (or maybe not) is that I quit drinking because

I DECIDED to quit drinking, NOT because of the " fellowship " ,

the " program " , the " steps " or a " spiritual awakening " . However, the

support of the group, or the connection I felt with many of the

people in AA was important and helpful, even when I had to ignore the

rabid " gratitude " to a " higher power " for the " grace " of being

alcoholic.

My cousin has been on Wellbutrin for the last 6 years for depression.

She says that she tried to go off it a couple of times, but felt

the " dark clouds " return and decided to go back on the meds. I asked

my doctor for Zyban (he gave me a prescription for Wllbutrin SR,

which is the same drug, but I think cheaper than the Zyban) to quit

smoking, but if it helps with the depression, I will probably stay on

it. I am about at the end of my rope with this depression stuff, some

days my kids are the only reason to keep going. I think my depression

is connected to my hormones, and the Wellbutrin already seems to be

having some effect on those, although only time will tell if that is

true.

Kate

> One thing I noticed about Wellbutrin, it does not seem to give me

> borderline diarrhea, like Zoloft does. That may be more information

> than you wanted. I can't tell if it's affecting the cravings.

> Supposedly that takes a couple of weeks to begin, but I'm in a

hurry.

> I don't want to keep smoking these accursed Marlboro Ultralights,

but

> I don't dare go back to Camels, because I like them too damn much.

[Guest guest]

If we're going to discuss side effects, which in my case, definitely

come under the " more than you wanted to know " category, we better

take the discussion off list...;-) I suspect I felt initial " placebo "

effects regarding cravings (a definite decrease in the number of

times I reached for a cigarette), but now, on day 4, I'm not noticing

any decrease in cravings--or should I call it my automatic reflex of

reaching for a smoke?

It's odd, 13 years ago, when I delivered my twins by C-section, I

developed bronchitis and didn't smoke while I was in the hospital--

much too painfull to cough with that huge incision in my belly. After

I came home from the hospital, I tried one cigarette, it tasted awful

and I didn't smoke again for over 3 years. I firmly believe that it

was the AA brainwashing that led me to smoke agin. I thought I wanted

to drink, but AA " conventional wisdom " (BS) said that it was better

to smoke than drink, so off I went. Today, I know that I would have

been much more likely to stop the booze than the cigarettes.

Please don't misunderstand me, I take full reponsibility for the

starting and quitting, I just believe that my thinking process was

definitely influenced by the AA talk that anything was better than

drinking.

During the time I was in AA, I took most things with a grain of salt,

and even though at one point, I was almost caught up in " AA think " --

as if it was the answer to all problems-- I gradually became more and

more skeptical. I began to see the abuses and nonesense, and started

speaking my mind about those things in meetings. It seemed to do

little good, and I eventually quit meetings. After I joined this

list, I began to see just how influenced my thinking was by AA. It

seems to take a long time to uncover and root out all the

nonesensical thinking that AA planted in my brain. I am always

stunned when I discover one more remnant of AA brainwashing in my

thinking and have to pull it our under the cold, clear light of day

for examination.

The really weird part (or maybe not) is that I quit drinking because

I DECIDED to quit drinking, NOT because of the " fellowship " ,

the " program " , the " steps " or a " spiritual awakening " . However, the

support of the group, or the connection I felt with many of the

people in AA was important and helpful, even when I had to ignore the

rabid " gratitude " to a " higher power " for the " grace " of being

alcoholic.

My cousin has been on Wellbutrin for the last 6 years for depression.

She says that she tried to go off it a couple of times, but felt

the " dark clouds " return and decided to go back on the meds. I asked

my doctor for Zyban (he gave me a prescription for Wllbutrin SR,

which is the same drug, but I think cheaper than the Zyban) to quit

smoking, but if it helps with the depression, I will probably stay on

it. I am about at the end of my rope with this depression stuff, some

days my kids are the only reason to keep going. I think my depression

is connected to my hormones, and the Wellbutrin already seems to be

having some effect on those, although only time will tell if that is

true.

Kate

> One thing I noticed about Wellbutrin, it does not seem to give me

> borderline diarrhea, like Zoloft does. That may be more information

> than you wanted. I can't tell if it's affecting the cravings.

> Supposedly that takes a couple of weeks to begin, but I'm in a

hurry.

> I don't want to keep smoking these accursed Marlboro Ultralights,

but

> I don't dare go back to Camels, because I like them too damn much.

[Guest guest]

If we're going to discuss side effects, which in my case, definitely

come under the " more than you wanted to know " category, we better

take the discussion off list...;-) I suspect I felt initial " placebo "

effects regarding cravings (a definite decrease in the number of

times I reached for a cigarette), but now, on day 4, I'm not noticing

any decrease in cravings--or should I call it my automatic reflex of

reaching for a smoke?

It's odd, 13 years ago, when I delivered my twins by C-section, I

developed bronchitis and didn't smoke while I was in the hospital--

much too painfull to cough with that huge incision in my belly. After

I came home from the hospital, I tried one cigarette, it tasted awful

and I didn't smoke again for over 3 years. I firmly believe that it

was the AA brainwashing that led me to smoke agin. I thought I wanted

to drink, but AA " conventional wisdom " (BS) said that it was better

to smoke than drink, so off I went. Today, I know that I would have

been much more likely to stop the booze than the cigarettes.

Please don't misunderstand me, I take full reponsibility for the

starting and quitting, I just believe that my thinking process was

definitely influenced by the AA talk that anything was better than

drinking.

During the time I was in AA, I took most things with a grain of salt,

and even though at one point, I was almost caught up in " AA think " --

as if it was the answer to all problems-- I gradually became more and

more skeptical. I began to see the abuses and nonesense, and started

speaking my mind about those things in meetings. It seemed to do

little good, and I eventually quit meetings. After I joined this

list, I began to see just how influenced my thinking was by AA. It

seems to take a long time to uncover and root out all the

nonesensical thinking that AA planted in my brain. I am always

stunned when I discover one more remnant of AA brainwashing in my

thinking and have to pull it our under the cold, clear light of day

for examination.

The really weird part (or maybe not) is that I quit drinking because

I DECIDED to quit drinking, NOT because of the " fellowship " ,

the " program " , the " steps " or a " spiritual awakening " . However, the

support of the group, or the connection I felt with many of the

people in AA was important and helpful, even when I had to ignore the

rabid " gratitude " to a " higher power " for the " grace " of being

alcoholic.

My cousin has been on Wellbutrin for the last 6 years for depression.

She says that she tried to go off it a couple of times, but felt

the " dark clouds " return and decided to go back on the meds. I asked

my doctor for Zyban (he gave me a prescription for Wllbutrin SR,

which is the same drug, but I think cheaper than the Zyban) to quit

smoking, but if it helps with the depression, I will probably stay on

it. I am about at the end of my rope with this depression stuff, some

days my kids are the only reason to keep going. I think my depression

is connected to my hormones, and the Wellbutrin already seems to be

having some effect on those, although only time will tell if that is

true.

Kate

> One thing I noticed about Wellbutrin, it does not seem to give me

> borderline diarrhea, like Zoloft does. That may be more information

> than you wanted. I can't tell if it's affecting the cravings.

> Supposedly that takes a couple of weeks to begin, but I'm in a

hurry.

> I don't want to keep smoking these accursed Marlboro Ultralights,

but

> I don't dare go back to Camels, because I like them too damn much.

[Guest guest]

Kate, both my brothers took Wellbutrin and both got a weird vascular

side effect. I believe it causes little blood vessels near the skin

to burst, which creates bruise-like discoloration. I think it usually

happens in the legs or feet. But it's never happened to me.

As far as I can tell, it affects me about the same as Zoloft --

stimulating rather than sedating. I have to watch my coffee intake,

but of course I usually don't and end up staying awake till the wee

hours.

As far as what you said about discovering ways that AA has influenced

you that you never suspected till you got away -- yeah, we're all

like the Manchurian candidate. You never know when you're going to

turn up that queen card and a bunch of AA thoughts come flying into

your consciousness out of nowhere. Matter of a fact, I've always

thought the scenes in that movie where Wo Fat was showing off the

brainwashed POWs reminded me a lot of a group session in drug rehab.

[Guest guest]

Kate, both my brothers took Wellbutrin and both got a weird vascular

side effect. I believe it causes little blood vessels near the skin

to burst, which creates bruise-like discoloration. I think it usually

happens in the legs or feet. But it's never happened to me.

As far as I can tell, it affects me about the same as Zoloft --

stimulating rather than sedating. I have to watch my coffee intake,

but of course I usually don't and end up staying awake till the wee

hours.

As far as what you said about discovering ways that AA has influenced

you that you never suspected till you got away -- yeah, we're all

like the Manchurian candidate. You never know when you're going to

turn up that queen card and a bunch of AA thoughts come flying into

your consciousness out of nowhere. Matter of a fact, I've always

thought the scenes in that movie where Wo Fat was showing off the

brainwashed POWs reminded me a lot of a group session in drug rehab.

[Guest guest]

Kate, both my brothers took Wellbutrin and both got a weird vascular

side effect. I believe it causes little blood vessels near the skin

to burst, which creates bruise-like discoloration. I think it usually

happens in the legs or feet. But it's never happened to me.

As far as I can tell, it affects me about the same as Zoloft --

stimulating rather than sedating. I have to watch my coffee intake,

but of course I usually don't and end up staying awake till the wee

hours.

As far as what you said about discovering ways that AA has influenced

you that you never suspected till you got away -- yeah, we're all

like the Manchurian candidate. You never know when you're going to

turn up that queen card and a bunch of AA thoughts come flying into

your consciousness out of nowhere. Matter of a fact, I've always

thought the scenes in that movie where Wo Fat was showing off the

brainwashed POWs reminded me a lot of a group session in drug rehab.

[Guest guest]

Lessee, one down`` how many other

> things do i have to give up? <counting on fingers.

Argh! I hate giving up another vice. First it was drinking, then

heroin and pot, and now my beloved Camel Wides! What's next? Greasy

food? My weekly trips to the Oriental Massage Parlor? Every time I

quit another life-shortening habit, it makes me feel 10 years older.

What's really irritating is that after you've stopped all these

unhealthy practices, you'll probably be killed prematurely by a bolt

of lightning or something like that -- something totally unrelated to

the venal indulgences that you've given up in hopes of increased

longevity.

[Guest guest]

> Lessee, one down`` how many other

> > things do i have to give up? <counting on fingers.

>

> Argh! I hate giving up another vice. First it was drinking, then

> heroin and pot, and now my beloved Camel Wides! What's next? Greasy

> food? My weekly trips to the Oriental Massage Parlor? Every time I

> quit another life-shortening habit, it makes me feel 10 years older.

lol, HO!

Don't forget those 12-step meetings--but maybe you never got addicted

to those.

Is there is something else you could replace it with...? Hey, I

know, exercise! I knew someone who said she was addicted. I tried

and tried to get addicted, but never could. Rats.