Re: A powerfull and dangerous idea

February 10, 2001

> For those of you who have criticized my views, this is worth your

> time: http://mentalhelp.net/perspectives/articles/art090620004.htm

>

> I'm working on a long response to the White House shooting post and

> then I will leave this subject be as far as 12sf is concerned.

>

> Tommy

You know, the only thing that protects an " alcoholic " from the forced

druging of psychiatry is AA. Why? Because Psychiatry is a big fan of

AA!

Great article, Tommy.

Jim

February 10, 2001

> For those of you who have criticized my views, this is worth your

> time: http://mentalhelp.net/perspectives/articles/art090620004.htm

>

> I'm working on a long response to the White House shooting post and

> then I will leave this subject be as far as 12sf is concerned.

>

> Tommy

You know, the only thing that protects an " alcoholic " from the forced

druging of psychiatry is AA. Why? Because Psychiatry is a big fan of

AA!

Great article, Tommy.

Jim

February 10, 2001

> For those of you who have criticized my views, this is worth your

> time: http://mentalhelp.net/perspectives/articles/art090620004.htm

>

> I'm working on a long response to the White House shooting post and

> then I will leave this subject be as far as 12sf is concerned.

>

> Tommy

You know, the only thing that protects an " alcoholic " from the forced

druging of psychiatry is AA. Why? Because Psychiatry is a big fan of

AA!

Great article, Tommy.

Jim

February 10, 2001

>

> You know, the only thing that protects an " alcoholic " from the

forced

> druging of psychiatry is AA. Why? Because Psychiatry is a big fan of

> AA!

Not particularly outside the US.

February 10, 2001

>

> You know, the only thing that protects an " alcoholic " from the

forced

> druging of psychiatry is AA. Why? Because Psychiatry is a big fan of

> AA!

Not particularly outside the US.

February 10, 2001

>

> You know, the only thing that protects an " alcoholic " from the

forced

> druging of psychiatry is AA. Why? Because Psychiatry is a big fan of

> AA!

Not particularly outside the US.

February 11, 2001

> For those of you who have criticized my views, this is worth your

> time: http://mentalhelp.net/perspectives/articles/art090620004.htm

>

> I'm working on a long response to the White House shooting post and

> then I will leave this subject be as far as 12sf is concerned.

>

> Tommy

It's a great article, Tommy. My inner jury is still out on the

matter, but I did learn something very interesting while interviewing

Dr. Jeff Schaler for 12-Step Horror Stories.

He said delusions are very common, but it's only the unpopular

delusions that are called mental illness.

He gave the example of Christianity. He said no one questions the

many tens or hundreds of thousands of people who say they have had a

Christian spiritual experience, or say they beleive that Satan is on

earth causing trouble, or that there are angels in heaven, etc.

No one says they are mentally ill.

However, is the delusion one is not popular, for instance, someone

who thinks he's Napolean or someone who thinks that the government is

speaking to him through micro-waves, he is dubbed mentally ill.

Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

and came accross this site:

http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

I think anyone who was to take these personality tests would be found

mentall ill. Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to a

shrink because of your answers.

February 11, 2001

> For those of you who have criticized my views, this is worth your

> time: http://mentalhelp.net/perspectives/articles/art090620004.htm

>

> I'm working on a long response to the White House shooting post and

> then I will leave this subject be as far as 12sf is concerned.

>

> Tommy

It's a great article, Tommy. My inner jury is still out on the

matter, but I did learn something very interesting while interviewing

Dr. Jeff Schaler for 12-Step Horror Stories.

He said delusions are very common, but it's only the unpopular

delusions that are called mental illness.

He gave the example of Christianity. He said no one questions the

many tens or hundreds of thousands of people who say they have had a

Christian spiritual experience, or say they beleive that Satan is on

earth causing trouble, or that there are angels in heaven, etc.

No one says they are mentally ill.

However, is the delusion one is not popular, for instance, someone

who thinks he's Napolean or someone who thinks that the government is

speaking to him through micro-waves, he is dubbed mentally ill.

Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

and came accross this site:

http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

I think anyone who was to take these personality tests would be found

mentall ill. Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to a

shrink because of your answers.

February 11, 2001

> For those of you who have criticized my views, this is worth your

> time: http://mentalhelp.net/perspectives/articles/art090620004.htm

>

> I'm working on a long response to the White House shooting post and

> then I will leave this subject be as far as 12sf is concerned.

>

> Tommy

It's a great article, Tommy. My inner jury is still out on the

matter, but I did learn something very interesting while interviewing

Dr. Jeff Schaler for 12-Step Horror Stories.

He said delusions are very common, but it's only the unpopular

delusions that are called mental illness.

He gave the example of Christianity. He said no one questions the

many tens or hundreds of thousands of people who say they have had a

Christian spiritual experience, or say they beleive that Satan is on

earth causing trouble, or that there are angels in heaven, etc.

No one says they are mentally ill.

However, is the delusion one is not popular, for instance, someone

who thinks he's Napolean or someone who thinks that the government is

speaking to him through micro-waves, he is dubbed mentally ill.

Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

and came accross this site:

http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

I think anyone who was to take these personality tests would be found

mentall ill. Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to a

shrink because of your answers.

February 11, 2001

At 09:01 AM 2/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

>Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

>and came accross this site:

>

>http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

>

>I think anyone who was to take these personality tests would be found

>mentall ill. Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to a

>shrink because of your answers.

Wow, you're right. I have *everything.* Who knew I was so

screwed up in every single area of life?

Fortunately I think there's a 12-step program for each of these

diseases. :-)

February 11, 2001

At 09:01 AM 2/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

>Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

>and came accross this site:

>

>http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

>

>I think anyone who was to take these personality tests would be found

>mentall ill. Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to a

>shrink because of your answers.

Wow, you're right. I have *everything.* Who knew I was so

screwed up in every single area of life?

Fortunately I think there's a 12-step program for each of these

diseases. :-)

February 11, 2001

At 09:01 AM 2/11/01 +0000, you wrote:

>Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

>and came accross this site:

>

>http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

>

>I think anyone who was to take these personality tests would be found

>mentall ill. Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to a

>shrink because of your answers.

Wow, you're right. I have *everything.* Who knew I was so

screwed up in every single area of life?

Fortunately I think there's a 12-step program for each of these

diseases. :-)

February 11, 2001

I have a paranoid personality, an anxiety disorder, am sexually

dysfunctional, but the good news is, that there's absolutely no

indication of ADD. Phew!

Apple

> >Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

> >and came accross this site:

> >

> >http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

> >

> >I think anyone who was to take these personality tests would be found

> >mentall ill. Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to a

> >shrink because of your answers.

>

> Wow, you're right. I have *everything.* Who knew I was so

> screwed up in every single area of life?

>

> Fortunately I think there's a 12-step program for each of these

> diseases. :-)

>

February 11, 2001

I have a paranoid personality, an anxiety disorder, am sexually

dysfunctional, but the good news is, that there's absolutely no

indication of ADD. Phew!

Apple

> >Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

> >and came accross this site:

> >

> >http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

> >

> >I think anyone who was to take these personality tests would be found

> >mentall ill. Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to a

> >shrink because of your answers.

>

> Wow, you're right. I have *everything.* Who knew I was so

> screwed up in every single area of life?

>

> Fortunately I think there's a 12-step program for each of these

> diseases. :-)

>

February 11, 2001

I have a paranoid personality, an anxiety disorder, am sexually

dysfunctional, but the good news is, that there's absolutely no

indication of ADD. Phew!

Apple

> >Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

> >and came accross this site:

> >

> >http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

> >

> >I think anyone who was to take these personality tests would be found

> >mentall ill. Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to a

> >shrink because of your answers.

>

> Wow, you're right. I have *everything.* Who knew I was so

> screwed up in every single area of life?

>

> Fortunately I think there's a 12-step program for each of these

> diseases. :-)

>

February 11, 2001

Hmmm--I'm just depressed, but that's no surprise, I always have been.

>I have a paranoid personality, an anxiety disorder, am sexually

>dysfunctional, but the good news is, that there's absolutely no

>indication of ADD. Phew!

>Apple

>

>> >Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

>> >and came accross this site:

>> >

>> >http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

February 11, 2001

Hmmm--I'm just depressed, but that's no surprise, I always have been.

>I have a paranoid personality, an anxiety disorder, am sexually

>dysfunctional, but the good news is, that there's absolutely no

>indication of ADD. Phew!

>Apple

>

>> >Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

>> >and came accross this site:

>> >

>> >http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

February 11, 2001

Hmmm--I'm just depressed, but that's no surprise, I always have been.

>I have a paranoid personality, an anxiety disorder, am sexually

>dysfunctional, but the good news is, that there's absolutely no

>indication of ADD. Phew!

>Apple

>

>> >Anyhow, aside from that point, I was looking for something in googel

>> >and came accross this site:

>> >

>> >http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

February 11, 2001

>

> It's a great article, Tommy. My inner jury is still out on the

> matter, but I did learn something very interesting while

interviewing

> Dr. Jeff Schaler for 12-Step Horror Stories.

>

> He said delusions are very common, but it's only the unpopular

> delusions that are called mental illness.

>

> He gave the example of Christianity. He said no one questions the

> many tens or hundreds of thousands of people who say they have had a

> Christian spiritual experience, or say they beleive that Satan is on

> earth causing trouble, or that there are angels in heaven, etc.

> No one says they are mentally ill.

>

> However, is the delusion one is not popular, for instance, someone

> who thinks he's Napolean or someone who thinks that the government

is

> speaking to him through micro-waves, he is dubbed mentally ill.

Very interesting, . Perhaps we should all examine our own

tolerance of the beliefs of others, whether they be fact or delusion.

Afterall, tolerance is the heart of the Free Exercise Clause.

Consider the following quotes, the first by Szasz (Reason interview)

and the second by Jefferson (Notes on the State of Virginia).

" Why don't you have a right to say you are Jesus? And why isn't the

proper response to that 'congratulations'? "

" The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are

injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say

there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor

breaks my leg... Had not the Roman government permitted free enquiry,

Christianity could never have been introduced. Had not free enquiry

been indulged, at the era of the reformation, the corruptions of

Christianity could not have been purged away. If it be restrained now,

the present corruptions will be protected, and new ones encouraged.

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our

bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. Thus in France

the emetic was once forbidden as a medicine, and the potatoe as an

article of food. Government is just as infallible too when it fixes

systems in physics. Galileo was sent to the inquisition for affirming

that the earth was a sphere: the government had declared it to be as

flat as a trencher, and Galileo was obliged to abjure his error. This

error however at length prevailed, the earth became a globe, and

Descartes declared it was whirled round its axis by a vortex. The

government in which he lived was wise enough to see that this was no

question of civil jurisdiction, or we should all have been involved by

authority in vortices. In fact, the vortices have been exploded, and

the Newtonian principle of gravitation is now more firmly established,

on the basis of reason, than it would be were the government to step

in, and to make it an article of necessary faith. Reason and

experiment have been indulged, and error has fled before them. It is

error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by

itself. Subject opinion to coercion: whom will you make your

inquisitors? Fallible men; men governed by bad passions, by private as

well as public reasons. And why subject it to coercion? To produce

uniformity. But is uniformity of opinion desireable? No more than of

face and stature... Difference of opinion is advantageous in religion.

The several sects perform the office of a Censor morum over each

other. Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and

children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt,

tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards

uniformity. "

And as tolerence is the heart or the Free Exercise Clause, so

protection from coercion(either to attend/participate or support

through taxes) is the heart of the Establishment Clause. The

following two quotes come from Dickson White's " A History of

the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christencom " The first quote

comes from Galileo as he kneels before the Roman Inquisition knowing

he will be burnt at the stake if he does not recant. The second is

official doctrine of the Inquisition on why Galileo cannot be right:

" I, Galileo, being in my seventieth year, being a prisoner and on my

knees, and before your Eminences, having before my eyes the Holy

Gospel, which I touch with my hands, abjure, curse, and detest the

error and the heresy of the movement of the earth. "

" Animals, which move, have limbs and muscles; the earth has no limbs

or muscles, therefore it does not move. It is angels who make Saturn,

Jupiter, the sun, etc., turn round. If the earth revolves, it must

also have an angel in the centre to set it in motion; but only devils

live there; it would therefore be a devil who would impart motion to

the earth.... "

The true horror story is when power imposes the delusions.

Tommy

February 11, 2001