12SF 2/11/01:The Myth Of Psychology

February 12, 2001

On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, rfransway@y... recommended:

http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

with the caveat that " I think anyone who was to take

these personality tests would be found mentally ill.

Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to

a shrink because of your answers. "

My response: I took just the test for personality

disorders and was told that I am not just mentally ill

but may actually have " schizoid personality disorder "

(!)(break out the antipsychotics, y'all!) simply

because I:

1. " prefer solitary activities, " ( " The primary cause

of all of man's problems is his inability to sit by

himself alone in his room. " --Blaise Pascal I suppose

if I didn't appreciate my solitude, I'd be cloying for

attention and diagnosed " codependent " or " enmeshed, "

huh?)

2. am " indifferent to praise or criticism, "

(Independence of thought; now we can't have that now

can we?! Lock him up!)

3. engage in " magical thinking, " (At least I'm honest

about the fact that praying to a Higher Power IS the

ultimate magical thinking. I'm a practicing NeoPagan!

What other kind of thinking would one expect me to

engage in?)

4. have " unstable/intense relationships, " (There are

a lot of jerks out there, including, in some cases,

relatives. If you've never hooked up with any,

consider yourself lucky.)

5. (and) am " preoccupied with unlimited success or

ideal love, " (Are being ambitious and/or romantic

mental illnesses now too?)

As a practicing NeoPagan (in the Eclectic tradition,

so I also get to dabble in everything from Gnostic

Christianity to Sufi dancing), I also concur with the

general consensus that " delusions " that are

politically popular ( " Jesus is coming back " ) are

protected while those that are not ( " I cast a spell to

drive away my roommate from Hell--and it worked! " ) are

maligned--e.g., last night, one of my favorite TV

shows, The Practice, featured a beloved character,

, critically/fatally injured and unconscious,

whose estranged mother refused to allow her daughter

to have a blood transfusion because the mother claimed

they were both Jehovah's Witnesses, despite the fact

that , from her acceptance of homosexuality and

divorce to her having had an abortion, was apparently

not a very " good " JH--a fact Bobby, her lawyer boss,

tried to use in court to overthrow the mother's

decision. In his passion, he slipped and compared

being a JH to practicing " Voodoo. " The mother later

took offense to that and used it to claim he was

prejudiced against JHs. I'm tempted to write in to

the show in mock offense and inform them that one of

my ex-lovers and my late best friend's widower both

practice " Voodoo " (Santeria, actually) and are two of

the most deeply spiritual people I've ever known!

(So, by the way, is the atheist minister--yes,

" atheist minister " --of the first Unitarian church I

ever attended!)

Anyway, I think it's all about balance. I spent 15+

years going to therapists who told me that my being

raised in a dysfunctional family (like most people?!)

and my homosexuality (a state I share with happy

millions) were the causes of my suicidal depression.

I pointed out classic signs of manic-depression and

begged to be put on lithium. They refused: " Too much

bloodwork. " Yes, there are still some out there who

believe EXCLUSIVELY in " talk " therapy. Finally, about

four years ago, I found a psychiatrist who put me on

lithium within 15 minutes of meeting me, who had

difficulty believing no one had " even tried " me on it.

The difference is like night and day. I even refer

to my life thus far, not altogether jokingly, as " BL "

and " AL. " Yes, technically, lithium is a mineral

salt, not a " drug, " but, whatever it is, try to take

mine away, and I'll hurt you! Yes, it works best in

tandem with psychotherapy, which I'm just now

beginning because of the long waiting list at the only

affordable option for me, the local County clinic. It

also, by the way, helped me stop " self-medicating " my

depression with alcohol. Also, by the way, I now get

" too much bloodwork " twice a year(!) Interestingly,

statistics show that the Japanese have 1/10 as many

cases per capita of depression as we do, and many

believe it's due to the all of the lithium and omega-3

and -6 fatty acids (building blocks of the nervous

system) in all of the fish and seaweed they eat!

Are drugs (like Ritalin and Prozac) overprescribed?

Hell, yes. Are there people who are subjected to

unnecessary treatment when they really just need a

good cry? Of course. Does that mean that there

aren't people out there who are just plain looney

toons and desperately need even very strong

antipsychotics to even function or that psychiatric

drugs are NEVER useful? Get real!

And yes, I also firmly agree with, Nadine Strossman,

president of the ACLU, who so eloquently stated in an

interview with Stossel for his feature " Sex,

Lies, and Consenting Adults " (available on videotape),

" consulting adults, in private places, have the

absolute right to ingest, imbibe, inhale, or insert

anything they wish into their own bodies. " (I love

statements like that that concisely combine opposition

to both the " War On Drugs " and the " Crimes Against

Nature " laws. As one friend put it, " Helms says

two men making love is a crime against nature, then

goes out and burns down a rain forest! " Society isn't

quite ready to recognize Ms. Strossman's " right " yet,

but I have faith.

As I've implied, it is " the system " that is screwed

up, not necessarily any and all of the methods, and so

I'll leave you with one group who is trying to change

that system. Ever since I heard of such a profession

(about age five), I've wanted to be a

psychotherapist--if only because I was already so sick

of the " small talk " that passed for real conversation

in the small (minded) town I grew up in. I gave up

that dream in my early 20s when I encountered the same

kinds of coercion and corruption in the social

sciences that other posters have detailed. I am now

back in school, studying psychology, because that

dream has been rekindled by the people at the East

Side Institute for Short-Term Psychotherapy in New

York City, with whom I hope to do eventual

postgraduate work. The fact that they are branded as

a " cult " by the same media who so blindly and blithely

praise AA only further supports their contention that

their brand of therapy is, as they put it, " more

cultural than scientific and intimately linked to

radical/revolutionary social change. " I especially

recommend the layperson's magnum opus of their

founder, Dr. Fred Newman, " The Myth Of Psychology, "

especially, to 12SF people, the chapter entitled,

" Addiction is a Myth. " For more " heady " reading,

check out his (together with Lois Holzman) " Lev

Vygotsky: Revolutionary Scientist " a virtual textbook

about their methodological founder. Their website is

at http://www.eastsideinstitute.org

Check it out!

P.S.: Is there anybody out there who, like me, still

goes to occasional " less fundamentalist " AA meetings

(because there's so little else available locally)

while (exactly as they suggest) " maintaining an open

mind " (by reading Stanton Peele, RR literature,

aadeprogramming.com, etc.)? I may be " indifferent to

praise or criticism, " but I still like company. There

are even a few of us (AA backsliders) locally who

might like to start a " freethinkers/skeptics " group.

Has anybody done anything like that, and, if so, what

do you call it? (For that matter, what kind of

readings do you do?!) Any, to borrow a phrase,

" experience, strength, and hope " you can offer would

be much appreciated.

(My favorite quote): " We don't see things as they

are; we see them as we are. " --Anais Nin

Take care, y'all. --Clifton T.

__________________________________________________

February 13, 2001

http://www.jesusmysteries.demon.co.uk/home.html

you may find this book interesting. it bascialy comes to

conclusion christ is a myth based on pagan lore

February 13, 2001

What an interesting and lengthy post, Clifton. I see that you have a

Hungarian surname. I'm Hungarian as well. Born there even.

The mental illness questionnaire is just plain stupid. It can be more

damaging for people to accept a stigmatizing " diagnosis " than to accept

their own quirky personality. As a society, we should be especially

careful about stigmatizing children, and labeling them " failure to

thrive " children, " borderline personality " or whatever. That can have

serious negative reprecussions.

It can be as bad as donning the label of lifetime alcoholic for anyone

who has a concern about exessive drinking.

Your comment on the Japanese diet and their statistics of depression

were very interesting to me. I've always been a proponent of listening

to what my body craves, and feeding it accordingly. I've always had

difficulty during the winter, and in past winters, I've resorted to St.

's Wort, which is very effective for me in controlling seasonal

depression. But this winter, I did not choose St. 's Wort, but

interestingly, have gravitated to eating a lot of fish and seaweed.

I agree that the motivator for many people to continue to go to

meetings, is the desire for social contact. That was the hardest thing

for me to deal with. The sudden drop of people in my life from

hundreds to zero. I've managed to supplement this, by joining other

types of groups, but you are right, that 12 step groups are very

plentiful. The thing about it, is that people bond over their pain,

trauma or weaknesses, versus their strengths or interests. Also, I find

that 12 step groups, because of their internal vocabulary, manage to

supress an otherwise potential urge for political activism, something

that I'm just beginning to develop an interest in.

Apple

> On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, rfransway@y... recommended:

> http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/public.html

> with the caveat that " I think anyone who was to take

> these personality tests would be found mentally ill.

> Try it. Take them all. See how often they refer you to

> a shrink because of your answers. "

>

> My response: I took just the test for personality

> disorders and was told that I am not just mentally ill

> but may actually have " schizoid personality disorder "

> (!)(break out the antipsychotics, y'all!) simply

> because I:

> 1. " prefer solitary activities, " ( " The primary cause

> of all of man's problems is his inability to sit by

> himself alone in his room. " --Blaise Pascal I suppose

> if I didn't appreciate my solitude, I'd be cloying for

> attention and diagnosed " codependent " or " enmeshed, "

> huh?)

> 2. am " indifferent to praise or criticism, "

> (Independence of thought; now we can't have that now

> can we?! Lock him up!)

> 3. engage in " magical thinking, " (At least I'm honest

> about the fact that praying to a Higher Power IS the

> ultimate magical thinking. I'm a practicing NeoPagan!

> What other kind of thinking would one expect me to

> engage in?)

> 4. have " unstable/intense relationships, " (There are

> a lot of jerks out there, including, in some cases,

> relatives. If you've never hooked up with any,

> consider yourself lucky.)

> 5. (and) am " preoccupied with unlimited success or

> ideal love, " (Are being ambitious and/or romantic

> mental illnesses now too?)

>

> As a practicing NeoPagan (in the Eclectic tradition,

> so I also get to dabble in everything from Gnostic

> Christianity to Sufi dancing), I also concur with the

> general consensus that " delusions " that are

> politically popular ( " Jesus is coming back " ) are

> protected while those that are not ( " I cast a spell to

> drive away my roommate from Hell--and it worked! " ) are

> maligned--e.g., last night, one of my favorite TV

> shows, The Practice, featured a beloved character,

> , critically/fatally injured and unconscious,

> whose estranged mother refused to allow her daughter

> to have a blood transfusion because the mother claimed

> they were both Jehovah's Witnesses, despite the fact

> that , from her acceptance of homosexuality and

> divorce to her having had an abortion, was apparently

> not a very " good " JH--a fact Bobby, her lawyer boss,

> tried to use in court to overthrow the mother's

> decision. In his passion, he slipped and compared

> being a JH to practicing " Voodoo. " The mother later

> took offense to that and used it to claim he was

> prejudiced against JHs. I'm tempted to write in to

> the show in mock offense and inform them that one of

> my ex-lovers and my late best friend's widower both

> practice " Voodoo " (Santeria, actually) and are two of

> the most deeply spiritual people I've ever known!

> (So, by the way, is the atheist minister--yes,

> " atheist minister " --of the first Unitarian church I

> ever attended!)

>

> Anyway, I think it's all about balance. I spent 15+

> years going to therapists who told me that my being

> raised in a dysfunctional family (like most people?!)

> and my homosexuality (a state I share with happy

> millions) were the causes of my suicidal depression.

> I pointed out classic signs of manic-depression and

> begged to be put on lithium. They refused: " Too much

> bloodwork. " Yes, there are still some out there who

> believe EXCLUSIVELY in " talk " therapy. Finally, about

> four years ago, I found a psychiatrist who put me on

> lithium within 15 minutes of meeting me, who had

> difficulty believing no one had " even tried " me on it.

> The difference is like night and day. I even refer

> to my life thus far, not altogether jokingly, as " BL "

> and " AL. " Yes, technically, lithium is a mineral

> salt, not a " drug, " but, whatever it is, try to take

> mine away, and I'll hurt you! Yes, it works best in

> tandem with psychotherapy, which I'm just now

> beginning because of the long waiting list at the only

> affordable option for me, the local County clinic. It

> also, by the way, helped me stop " self-medicating " my

> depression with alcohol. Also, by the way, I now get

> " too much bloodwork " twice a year(!) Interestingly,

> statistics show that the Japanese have 1/10 as many

> cases per capita of depression as we do, and many

> believe it's due to the all of the lithium and omega-3

> and -6 fatty acids (building blocks of the nervous

> system) in all of the fish and seaweed they eat!

>

> Are drugs (like Ritalin and Prozac) overprescribed?

> Hell, yes. Are there people who are subjected to

> unnecessary treatment when they really just need a

> good cry? Of course. Does that mean that there

> aren't people out there who are just plain looney

> toons and desperately need even very strong

> antipsychotics to even function or that psychiatric

> drugs are NEVER useful? Get real!

>

> And yes, I also firmly agree with, Nadine Strossman,

> president of the ACLU, who so eloquently stated in an

> interview with Stossel for his feature " Sex,

> Lies, and Consenting Adults " (available on videotape),

> " consulting adults, in private places, have the

> absolute right to ingest, imbibe, inhale, or insert

> anything they wish into their own bodies. " (I love

> statements like that that concisely combine opposition

> to both the " War On Drugs " and the " Crimes Against

> Nature " laws. As one friend put it, " Helms says

> two men making love is a crime against nature, then

> goes out and burns down a rain forest! " Society isn't

> quite ready to recognize Ms. Strossman's " right " yet,

> but I have faith.

>

> As I've implied, it is " the system " that is screwed

> up, not necessarily any and all of the methods, and so

> I'll leave you with one group who is trying to change

> that system. Ever since I heard of such a profession

> (about age five), I've wanted to be a

> psychotherapist--if only because I was already so sick

> of the " small talk " that passed for real conversation

> in the small (minded) town I grew up in. I gave up

> that dream in my early 20s when I encountered the same

> kinds of coercion and corruption in the social

> sciences that other posters have detailed. I am now

> back in school, studying psychology, because that

> dream has been rekindled by the people at the East

> Side Institute for Short-Term Psychotherapy in New

> York City, with whom I hope to do eventual

> postgraduate work. The fact that they are branded as

> a " cult " by the same media who so blindly and blithely

> praise AA only further supports their contention that

> their brand of therapy is, as they put it, " more

> cultural than scientific and intimately linked to

> radical/revolutionary social change. " I especially

> recommend the layperson's magnum opus of their

> founder, Dr. Fred Newman, " The Myth Of Psychology, "

> especially, to 12SF people, the chapter entitled,

> " Addiction is a Myth. " For more " heady " reading,

> check out his (together with Lois Holzman) " Lev

> Vygotsky: Revolutionary Scientist " a virtual textbook

> about their methodological founder. Their website is

> at http://www.eastsideinstitute.org

> Check it out!

>

> P.S.: Is there anybody out there who, like me, still

> goes to occasional " less fundamentalist " AA meetings

> (because there's so little else available locally)

> while (exactly as they suggest) " maintaining an open

> mind " (by reading Stanton Peele, RR literature,

> aadeprogramming.com, etc.)? I may be " indifferent to

> praise or criticism, " but I still like company. There

> are even a few of us (AA backsliders) locally who

> might like to start a " freethinkers/skeptics " group.

> Has anybody done anything like that, and, if so, what

> do you call it? (For that matter, what kind of

> readings do you do?!) Any, to borrow a phrase,

> " experience, strength, and hope " you can offer would

> be much appreciated.

>

> (My favorite quote): " We don't see things as they

> are; we see them as we are. " --Anais Nin

>

> Take care, y'all. --Clifton T.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

February 13, 2001