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>

> http://www.MindFreedom.org/mindfreedom/ioc/

>

> Tommy

Psychiatry's Greatest Hits (Vol VIII):

http://www.trufax.org/reports/lapon.html

1938. Ugo Cerletti became the first to use electroshock (ECT-electro-

convulsive treatments) on a human being. It was done in fascist

Italy. Carletti got the idea from watching hogs get shocked into

unconsciousness before they were killed at a slaughterhouse. The

first victim was a 39-year old engineer who had been arrested at a

railroad station for meandering about without a ticket on trains

ready for departures. After the first shock of 80 volts, which failed

to produce a convulsion, and before the second one, of 110 volts,

which did the " Patient " cried out, " O not another one it's deadly "

Present at this first administration of electroshock was Lothar S.

Kalinowsky who today is a member of the American Psychiatric

Association and has been one of the most avid proponents and users of

this torture in the United States. Kalinowsky has authored several

books and hundreds of articles on electroshock.

-

1916. Madison Grant published The Passing Of the Great Race, or the

Racial Basis of European History, in New York, in which he stated:

Mistaken regard for what are believed to be divine laws and a

sentimental belief in the sanctity of human life tend to prevent both

the elimination of defective infants and the sterilization of such

adults as are themselves of no value to a community. The laws of

nature require the obliteration of the unfit and human life is

valuable only when of use to the community or race.

-

1912. The first international Congress of Eugenics was held at the

University of London. The president of the Congress was Major Leonard

Darwin son of Darwin. One of the English vice- presidents was

First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill, later Prime Minister.

German vice-presidents included M. von Gruber, professor of hygiene

at Munich and Dr. Alfred Ploetz president of the International

Society for Race Hygiene. American vice-presidents included

W. Eliot, president emeritus of Harvard University and

Graham Bell.

-

1920. Alfred Mocha, professor of psychiatry and director of the

psychiatric clinic in Freiburg, and Karl Binding, a German judge

published The Release of the Destruction of Life Devoid of Value in

Leipzig. His work advocated the killing of people labelled " mentally

ill " and " mentally defective " and used the euphemism " euthanasia " .

Some quotes from this book are:

-

Dr. E. Lind, a psychiatrist at St. s hospital in

Washington, published his racist view of low " Psychology of the

African " in the Psychoanalytic Review:

The precocity of the children, the early onset of puberty, the

failure to grasp subjective ideas , the strong sexual and herd

instincts with the few inhibitions, the simple dream life, the easy

reversion to savagery when deprived of the restraining influence of

the whites (as in Haiti and Uberial), the tendency to seek expression

in such rhythmic means as music and dancing, the low resistance to

such toxins as syphlilis and alchohol, the sway of superstition, all

these and many other things betray the savage heart beneath the

civilized exterior

-

1922. H H Laughlin, the Expert Eugenics Agent of the United States

House of Representatives Committee on immigration and Naturalization

published the Model Eugenical Sterilization Law. This model formed a

basis for any state sterilisation laws and for Nazi Germany's 1933

law. Laughlin listed the categories of people who were to be

subjected to mandatory Sterilization:

The socially inadequate classes, regardless of etiology or

prognosis... are the following: Feeble-minded; insane (including the

psychopathic); Criminalistic (including the delinquent and wayward);

Epileptic; Inebriate (including drug-habitues); Diseased (including

the tuberculous, the syphilitic, the leprous, and others with

chronic, infectious, and legally segregable diseases); Blind

(including those with seriously impaired vision); Deformed (including

the crippled). and Dependent (including orphans, naer-do-wells, the

homeless, tramps and paupers.)

--

1925. Adolf Hitler published Mein Kampf to the glee of the

eugenicists. Hitler's book included the following statements:

--

1927. Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote the United States Supreme Court's

decision in Buck v. Bell. Buck was Buck, a 11-year old girl

committed to the State Colony for Epileptics and Feeble-Minded in

Virginia, where Bell was the superintendent. 's mother was also

an inmate at the same institution. had recently given birth to

a child and the state of Virginia wanted to have her sterilized

against her will. Associate Justice Holmes wrote

The judgment finds the facts that have been recited and that

Buck is the probably potential parent of socially inadequate

offspring, likewise afflicted, and she may be sexually sterilized

without detriment to her general health and that her welfare and that

of society will be promoted by her sterilization, and thereupon makes

the order... We have seen more then once that the public welfare may

call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if

it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the

State for those lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those

concerned. in order to prevent our being swamped with incompetence.

It is better for all the world. If instead of waiting to execute

degenerate offspring for crime, or let them starve for their

imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from

brooding their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory

vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes....

Three generations of imbeciles are enough.

--

1930. Ernst Rudin professor of psychiatry at Munich and director of

the Department of Heredity at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute visited

the United States and was praised by leaders of the Carnegie

Foundation. Rudin, later architect of Nail Germany's sterilisation

law was financially supported in his work by a large grant from the

Rockefeller Foundation.

--

Between 1931 and 1939, 375,000 forced sterilisations were performed

under this act. Accordlng to Wallace R. Duell, a German correspondent

for the Chicago Daily News, the official rationales were as follows -

Congenital feeble-

mindedness 203,250

Schizophrenia 73,125

Epilepsy 57,730

Acute alcoholism 28.500

Manic-depressive insanity 6,000

Hereditary deafness 2,575

Severe hereditary physical- deformity 1,875

Hereditary blindness 1,125

St. Vitus' dance 750

TOTAL 375.000

According to the Central Association of Sterilized Persons organized

in Germany in 1945, the total number of people sterilized under

Hitler's Third Reich (1913-1945) was two million.

N.H. Laughlin received an honorary degree from Germany's Heidelberg

University, a major Nazi research centre on " race purification' for

his contributions to eugenics.

1934. Psychiatry professor Ernst Rudin wrote that it was thanks to

Hitler that the dream we have cherished for more than thirty years of

seeing racial hygiene converted into action has become reality.

1935. Egos Moniz performed the first lobotomy in Portugal. Four years

later he was shot and partially paralyzed by a victim of one of his

lobotomies, and in 1955 he was beaten to death by another of

his " patients " who obviously didn't want his " help " .

The Nazis instituted the Law for the Protection of the Genetic Health

of the German People, which required couples to have a medical

examination before marriage. It forbade marriage if one person was

considered genetically defective. It also did not allow marriage

between Jews and Aryans and was later extended to include Gypsies,

slaves and other people deemed inferior.

--

There's much more here:

http://www.trufax.org/reports/lapon.html

J.

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> 1935. Egos Moniz performed the first lobotomy in Portugal. Four

years

> later he was shot and partially paralyzed by a victim of one of his

> lobotomies, and in 1955 he was beaten to death by another of

> his " patients " who obviously didn't want his " help " .

Jim,

I did not know about the attacks on Moniz. The following comes from

the Appendix of Szasz's " Manufacture of Madness " :

" 1955. Egas Moniz is awarded the Nobel Prize for Physiology or

Medicine for the treatment of schizophrenia by prefrontal lobotomy. "

Hopefully, one day people will look back on forced drugging and other

assorted works of torture on today's " mentally ill " with the same

horror we see these acts. I read somewhere, perhaps the Reason

interview, that Szasz is now working on a book on the history of the

misdeeds of psychiatry.

Tommy

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> 1935. Egos Moniz performed the first lobotomy in Portugal. Four

years

> later he was shot and partially paralyzed by a victim of one of his

> lobotomies, and in 1955 he was beaten to death by another of

> his " patients " who obviously didn't want his " help " .

Jim,

I did not know about the attacks on Moniz. The following comes from

the Appendix of Szasz's " Manufacture of Madness " :

" 1955. Egas Moniz is awarded the Nobel Prize for Physiology or

Medicine for the treatment of schizophrenia by prefrontal lobotomy. "

Hopefully, one day people will look back on forced drugging and other

assorted works of torture on today's " mentally ill " with the same

horror we see these acts. I read somewhere, perhaps the Reason

interview, that Szasz is now working on a book on the history of the

misdeeds of psychiatry.

Tommy

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>

> > 1935. Egos Moniz performed the first lobotomy in Portugal. Four

> years

> > later he was shot and partially paralyzed by a victim of one of

his

> > lobotomies, and in 1955 he was beaten to death by another of

> > his " patients " who obviously didn't want his " help " .

>

>

> Jim,

>

> I did not know about the attacks on Moniz. The following comes

from

> the Appendix of Szasz's " Manufacture of Madness " :

>

> " 1955. Egas Moniz is awarded the Nobel Prize for Physiology or

> Medicine for the treatment of schizophrenia by prefrontal lobotomy. "

>

>

> Hopefully, one day people will look back on forced drugging and

other

> assorted works of torture on today's " mentally ill " with the same

> horror we see these acts. I read somewhere, perhaps the Reason

> interview, that Szasz is now working on a book on the history of

the

> misdeeds of psychiatry.

>

> Tommy

Hey Tommy,

The site came up on a search. I can't vouch for it's accuracy

although some examples jived with my knowlege from known sources.

This is my favorite (I love his bedside manner;-) :

1948. Walter Freemen, who performed more them 3500 lobotomies,

demonstrated his icepick technique at the University of Virginia in

Charlottesville. Dorian, then a student nurse, described the

procedure which was done in front of lights and cameras in an

amphitheater full of doctors from throughout the state:

As each patient was brought in, Dr. Freenman would shout at him that

this was going to do something that would make him feel a lot better.

The patients had been given electroshock just before they were

brought in: that's probably why he yelled at them. The shock was the

only medication they received. He gave nothing for the pain, no

anaesthesia, no muscle relaxant.

After the patient was placed on the table, Dr. Freeman would clap his

hands and his two assistants would hold up an enormous piece of green

felt the color of a pool table. That was the photographic backdrop.

Dr. Freemen would direct the placement of lights so that each

operation could be photographed, and he checked carefully to be sure

that the cameraman was ready that he had a good shot showing Dr.

Freemen with his instrument, that there was no shadow to spoil the

picture. His main interest during the entire series of lobotomies

seemed to be on getting good photographic angles. He had each

operation photographed with the ice-pick in place. When all was

ready, he would plunge it in. I suppose that was part of his surgical

technique, if there is a technique for such surgery. You probably

have to plunge it in to break through the back of the eye socket. He

lifted up the eyelid and slid the ice-pick-like instrument over the

eyeball. Then he would stab it in suddenly, check to be sure the

pictures were being made, and move the pick from side to side to cut

the brain.

Freeman called lobotomy a mercy killing of the psyche. According to

Scheflin and Opton in their book The Mind Manipulators, 100,000

people received psychosurgical operations in one ten-year period,

1946-1955, half of them in the U.S.

--

J.

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>

> > 1935. Egos Moniz performed the first lobotomy in Portugal. Four

> years

> > later he was shot and partially paralyzed by a victim of one of

his

> > lobotomies, and in 1955 he was beaten to death by another of

> > his " patients " who obviously didn't want his " help " .

>

>

> Jim,

>

> I did not know about the attacks on Moniz. The following comes

from

> the Appendix of Szasz's " Manufacture of Madness " :

>

> " 1955. Egas Moniz is awarded the Nobel Prize for Physiology or

> Medicine for the treatment of schizophrenia by prefrontal lobotomy. "

>

>

> Hopefully, one day people will look back on forced drugging and

other

> assorted works of torture on today's " mentally ill " with the same

> horror we see these acts. I read somewhere, perhaps the Reason

> interview, that Szasz is now working on a book on the history of

the

> misdeeds of psychiatry.

>

> Tommy

Hey Tommy,

The site came up on a search. I can't vouch for it's accuracy

although some examples jived with my knowlege from known sources.

This is my favorite (I love his bedside manner;-) :

1948. Walter Freemen, who performed more them 3500 lobotomies,

demonstrated his icepick technique at the University of Virginia in

Charlottesville. Dorian, then a student nurse, described the

procedure which was done in front of lights and cameras in an

amphitheater full of doctors from throughout the state:

As each patient was brought in, Dr. Freenman would shout at him that

this was going to do something that would make him feel a lot better.

The patients had been given electroshock just before they were

brought in: that's probably why he yelled at them. The shock was the

only medication they received. He gave nothing for the pain, no

anaesthesia, no muscle relaxant.

After the patient was placed on the table, Dr. Freeman would clap his

hands and his two assistants would hold up an enormous piece of green

felt the color of a pool table. That was the photographic backdrop.

Dr. Freemen would direct the placement of lights so that each

operation could be photographed, and he checked carefully to be sure

that the cameraman was ready that he had a good shot showing Dr.

Freemen with his instrument, that there was no shadow to spoil the

picture. His main interest during the entire series of lobotomies

seemed to be on getting good photographic angles. He had each

operation photographed with the ice-pick in place. When all was

ready, he would plunge it in. I suppose that was part of his surgical

technique, if there is a technique for such surgery. You probably

have to plunge it in to break through the back of the eye socket. He

lifted up the eyelid and slid the ice-pick-like instrument over the

eyeball. Then he would stab it in suddenly, check to be sure the

pictures were being made, and move the pick from side to side to cut

the brain.

Freeman called lobotomy a mercy killing of the psyche. According to

Scheflin and Opton in their book The Mind Manipulators, 100,000

people received psychosurgical operations in one ten-year period,

1946-1955, half of them in the U.S.

--

J.

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>

> > 1935. Egos Moniz performed the first lobotomy in Portugal. Four

> years

> > later he was shot and partially paralyzed by a victim of one of

his

> > lobotomies, and in 1955 he was beaten to death by another of

> > his " patients " who obviously didn't want his " help " .

>

>

> Jim,

>

> I did not know about the attacks on Moniz. The following comes

from

> the Appendix of Szasz's " Manufacture of Madness " :

>

> " 1955. Egas Moniz is awarded the Nobel Prize for Physiology or

> Medicine for the treatment of schizophrenia by prefrontal lobotomy. "

>

>

> Hopefully, one day people will look back on forced drugging and

other

> assorted works of torture on today's " mentally ill " with the same

> horror we see these acts. I read somewhere, perhaps the Reason

> interview, that Szasz is now working on a book on the history of

the

> misdeeds of psychiatry.

>

> Tommy

Hey Tommy,

The site came up on a search. I can't vouch for it's accuracy

although some examples jived with my knowlege from known sources.

This is my favorite (I love his bedside manner;-) :

1948. Walter Freemen, who performed more them 3500 lobotomies,

demonstrated his icepick technique at the University of Virginia in

Charlottesville. Dorian, then a student nurse, described the

procedure which was done in front of lights and cameras in an

amphitheater full of doctors from throughout the state:

As each patient was brought in, Dr. Freenman would shout at him that

this was going to do something that would make him feel a lot better.

The patients had been given electroshock just before they were

brought in: that's probably why he yelled at them. The shock was the

only medication they received. He gave nothing for the pain, no

anaesthesia, no muscle relaxant.

After the patient was placed on the table, Dr. Freeman would clap his

hands and his two assistants would hold up an enormous piece of green

felt the color of a pool table. That was the photographic backdrop.

Dr. Freemen would direct the placement of lights so that each

operation could be photographed, and he checked carefully to be sure

that the cameraman was ready that he had a good shot showing Dr.

Freemen with his instrument, that there was no shadow to spoil the

picture. His main interest during the entire series of lobotomies

seemed to be on getting good photographic angles. He had each

operation photographed with the ice-pick in place. When all was

ready, he would plunge it in. I suppose that was part of his surgical

technique, if there is a technique for such surgery. You probably

have to plunge it in to break through the back of the eye socket. He

lifted up the eyelid and slid the ice-pick-like instrument over the

eyeball. Then he would stab it in suddenly, check to be sure the

pictures were being made, and move the pick from side to side to cut

the brain.

Freeman called lobotomy a mercy killing of the psyche. According to

Scheflin and Opton in their book The Mind Manipulators, 100,000

people received psychosurgical operations in one ten-year period,

1946-1955, half of them in the U.S.

--

J.

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The site came up on a search. I can't vouch for it's accuracy

although some examples jived with my knowlege from known sources.

--

Tommy,

" jived " is unclear. I meant that I had read about some of this before

and it appeared to be accurate. What shocked me was the extent to

which " Nazi " ideology was actually mainstream " scientific " thought

preached by psychiatry and other pseudosciences in the US, Britian

and elsewhere.

J.

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>It's too rainy to build cement ponds on the Outer Banks today so I'm

>enjoying a catch-up day on the net. Here is something I promised Miss

>Texas Tax-us a while back.

>

>http://www.MindFreedom.org/mindfreedom/ioc/

I went to this site. A lot of hystrionics, a few facts, no science. No

discussion of why these people are being medicated--are they deemed to be a

threat to themselves or others? Hey, if they don't like taking their

medications on the outside, they can go back into an institution--just like

if you don't want a court to order you into treatment, you have an

option--serve out your jail sentence.

The above site had no real discussion of mental illness or how to help

mentally ill people live in society. There was no discussion or recognition

of the problems of mentally ill people who refuse to take their meds. In

short, it was a lot of hystrionics, and I wasn't impressed.

Dixie

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>It's too rainy to build cement ponds on the Outer Banks today so I'm

>enjoying a catch-up day on the net. Here is something I promised Miss

>Texas Tax-us a while back.

>

>http://www.MindFreedom.org/mindfreedom/ioc/

I went to this site. A lot of hystrionics, a few facts, no science. No

discussion of why these people are being medicated--are they deemed to be a

threat to themselves or others? Hey, if they don't like taking their

medications on the outside, they can go back into an institution--just like

if you don't want a court to order you into treatment, you have an

option--serve out your jail sentence.

The above site had no real discussion of mental illness or how to help

mentally ill people live in society. There was no discussion or recognition

of the problems of mentally ill people who refuse to take their meds. In

short, it was a lot of hystrionics, and I wasn't impressed.

Dixie

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>

> Psychiatry's Greatest Hits (Vol VIII):

>

Jim, here are two more:

" 1885. Hysteria is treated by means of the surgical removal of the

ovary in Paris; by means of the surgical removal of the clitoris in

London and Vienna; and by means of cauterization of the clitoris in

Heidelberg. "

Don't feel left out dudes, here is one for you. As has been

previously pointed out on this list, for many, many years psychiatry

believed masturbation to be THE cause of " mental illness. "

" 1890. Hutchinson, president of the Royal College of

Surgeons, treats masturbation by means of circumcision and advocates

that 'measures more radical than circumcision would, if public opinion

permitted their adoption, be a true kindness to many patients of both

sexes.' "

Some of you might remember where I live, in that little beach town

with the looney name. Well my neighborhood is loaded with

masterbaiters. If you click on the link below you might be able to

see some of them in action, but it's a rainy winter day so maybe not.

But you never know, since masterbaiting causes lunacy. Perhaps that

explains why these loonies would even do such a thing, not only in

public, but in front of a live cam for the whole world to see. I'm

convinced that there is a genetic component to masterbaiting; it

certainly runs in families around. In fact there is one family in the

neighborhood with four living generations of masterbaiters. I mean

these four, all the way from the seven year old up to great grand dad

are true masters at what they do.

http://avalonpier.com/javacam.html

Tommy

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>

> Psychiatry's Greatest Hits (Vol VIII):

>

Jim, here are two more:

" 1885. Hysteria is treated by means of the surgical removal of the

ovary in Paris; by means of the surgical removal of the clitoris in

London and Vienna; and by means of cauterization of the clitoris in

Heidelberg. "

Don't feel left out dudes, here is one for you. As has been

previously pointed out on this list, for many, many years psychiatry

believed masturbation to be THE cause of " mental illness. "

" 1890. Hutchinson, president of the Royal College of

Surgeons, treats masturbation by means of circumcision and advocates

that 'measures more radical than circumcision would, if public opinion

permitted their adoption, be a true kindness to many patients of both

sexes.' "

Some of you might remember where I live, in that little beach town

with the looney name. Well my neighborhood is loaded with

masterbaiters. If you click on the link below you might be able to

see some of them in action, but it's a rainy winter day so maybe not.

But you never know, since masterbaiting causes lunacy. Perhaps that

explains why these loonies would even do such a thing, not only in

public, but in front of a live cam for the whole world to see. I'm

convinced that there is a genetic component to masterbaiting; it

certainly runs in families around. In fact there is one family in the

neighborhood with four living generations of masterbaiters. I mean

these four, all the way from the seven year old up to great grand dad

are true masters at what they do.

http://avalonpier.com/javacam.html

Tommy

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>

> Psychiatry's Greatest Hits (Vol VIII):

>

Jim, here are two more:

" 1885. Hysteria is treated by means of the surgical removal of the

ovary in Paris; by means of the surgical removal of the clitoris in

London and Vienna; and by means of cauterization of the clitoris in

Heidelberg. "

Don't feel left out dudes, here is one for you. As has been

previously pointed out on this list, for many, many years psychiatry

believed masturbation to be THE cause of " mental illness. "

" 1890. Hutchinson, president of the Royal College of

Surgeons, treats masturbation by means of circumcision and advocates

that 'measures more radical than circumcision would, if public opinion

permitted their adoption, be a true kindness to many patients of both

sexes.' "

Some of you might remember where I live, in that little beach town

with the looney name. Well my neighborhood is loaded with

masterbaiters. If you click on the link below you might be able to

see some of them in action, but it's a rainy winter day so maybe not.

But you never know, since masterbaiting causes lunacy. Perhaps that

explains why these loonies would even do such a thing, not only in

public, but in front of a live cam for the whole world to see. I'm

convinced that there is a genetic component to masterbaiting; it

certainly runs in families around. In fact there is one family in the

neighborhood with four living generations of masterbaiters. I mean

these four, all the way from the seven year old up to great grand dad

are true masters at what they do.

http://avalonpier.com/javacam.html

Tommy

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>

> >

> > Psychiatry's Greatest Hits (Vol VIII):

> >

>

> Jim, here are two more:

>

> " 1885. Hysteria is treated by means of the surgical removal of the

> ovary in Paris; by means of the surgical removal of the clitoris in

> London and Vienna; and by means of cauterization of the clitoris in

> Heidelberg. "

>

> Don't feel left out dudes, here is one for you. As has been

> previously pointed out on this list, for many, many years

psychiatry

> believed masturbation to be THE cause of " mental illness. "

>

> " 1890. Hutchinson, president of the Royal College of

> Surgeons, treats masturbation by means of circumcision and

advocates

> that 'measures more radical than circumcision would, if public

opinion

> permitted their adoption, be a true kindness to many patients of

both

> sexes.' "

>

> Some of you might remember where I live, in that little beach town

> with the looney name. Well my neighborhood is loaded with

> masterbaiters. If you click on the link below you might be able to

> see some of them in action, but it's a rainy winter day so maybe

not.

> But you never know, since masterbaiting causes lunacy. Perhaps

that

> explains why these loonies would even do such a thing, not only in

> public, but in front of a live cam for the whole world to see. I'm

> convinced that there is a genetic component to masterbaiting; it

> certainly runs in families around. In fact there is one family in

the

> neighborhood with four living generations of masterbaiters. I mean

> these four, all the way from the seven year old up to great grand

dad

> are true masters at what they do.

>

> http://avalonpier.com/javacam.html

>

> Tommy

You're a SICK MAN, Mr. Perkins! <Vbg>

I once explored the Outer Banks for several days on a motorcycle.

Fantastic place (I hope development hasn't ruined it yet). After the

Rocky Mountains, this would be my second choice for a great place to

live.

(oops... shhhhhhh!)

Jim :-)

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> > I wasn't impressed.

>

> Dixie, your bridge called. All is forgiven.

>

> *plonk*

>

> Dan

Four of us now.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

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;;;;;;; __/________\__ ;;;;;;;

;;;;;; ^V^ '--/}}}}}} " }}--' ;;;;;;

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;;;;; }}}}} ,___ __} ;;;;;

;;;;; {{{{{\ \_// ;;;;;

;;;;; }}}}//'--u ;;;;;

;;;;; _ .--'`U\ ;;;;;

;;;;; ::::| \ ( _,\\\ ;;;;;

;;;;;; ::::| |===\ \\=\))=======D ;;;;;;

;;;;;;; ::::|_/ `> \\ ;;;;;;;

;;;;;;;;. /__// .;;;;;;;;

;;;;;;;;;;. Y\_\\_ .;;;;;;;;;;

;;;;;;;;;;;;-._ _.-;;;;;;;;;;;;

;;;;;;;jgs;;;;;;-. .-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

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> > I wasn't impressed.

>

> Dixie, your bridge called. All is forgiven.

>

> *plonk*

>

> Dan

Four of us now.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

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>

>> > I wasn't impressed.

>>

>> Dixie, your bridge called. All is forgiven.

>>

>> *plonk*

Shrug. Okay, so you rave hysterically with no real evidence or facts, just

hysteria and lots of hand waving, no substantative argument. Okay, if

that's the way you want to do things, fine. Just don't expect to be taken

seriously by anyone.

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>

>> > I wasn't impressed.

>>

>> Dixie, your bridge called. All is forgiven.

>>

>> *plonk*

Shrug. Okay, so you rave hysterically with no real evidence or facts, just

hysteria and lots of hand waving, no substantative argument. Okay, if

that's the way you want to do things, fine. Just don't expect to be taken

seriously by anyone.

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>

>> > I wasn't impressed.

>>

>> Dixie, your bridge called. All is forgiven.

>>

>> *plonk*

Shrug. Okay, so you rave hysterically with no real evidence or facts, just

hysteria and lots of hand waving, no substantative argument. Okay, if

that's the way you want to do things, fine. Just don't expect to be taken

seriously by anyone.

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dixie@... wrote:

>

> >

> >> > I wasn't impressed.

> >>

> >> Dixie, your bridge called. All is forgiven.

> >>

> >> *plonk*

>

> Shrug. Okay, so you rave hysterically with no real evidence or facts, just

> hysteria and lots of hand waving, no substantative argument. Okay, if

> that's the way you want to do things, fine. Just don't expect to be taken

> seriously by anyone.

>

Dixie,

If anyone is guilty of raving hysterically with no real evidence or

facts, it is you.

How can you expect anyone to take _you_ seriously on a list where people

are concerned with things like character, integrity, civil liberties and

restrictions on state power when your very best arguments are totally

devoid of a knowledge of _any_ of those matters? Do you think calling

someone who disagrees with you " mentally ill " makes your weak arguments

any stronger?

In other posts, you take a stand in favor of coerced treatment.

I'm curious how many list members think your opinions and beliefs are a

sign of your mental illness. Perhaps we should get together and have

you committed, forced to take drugs, or use some other technique to get

you to express socially acceptable values? Surely, you have committed

some sort of crime or breach of social ettiquette that would qualify

under your value system as expressed here that you lose your right to

freedom of conscience, freedom of thought and freedom of expression, all

that burdensome nonsense that we have inherited in our Western

traditions.

Ken Ragge

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