Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to happen

[Guest guest]

So any thought to the fact that an increase in stolen vehicles and an

increase in illegal immigration is on the rise.

Food for thought:

For the most part illegal immigrants and their " coyotes " do not use any type

of system that will increase the likelihood of being caught.

Criminals are most likely to use stolen vehicles to get away from the point

of entry. Illegal immigrants are most likely the unwitting passengers of this

new tactic.

Read " Criminals " as " Terrorists. " Anyone care to disagree. We as EMS

professionals will be " in the thick of it " as we approach these scenes.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

So any thought to the fact that an increase in stolen vehicles and an

increase in illegal immigration is on the rise.

Food for thought:

For the most part illegal immigrants and their " coyotes " do not use any type

of system that will increase the likelihood of being caught.

Criminals are most likely to use stolen vehicles to get away from the point

of entry. Illegal immigrants are most likely the unwitting passengers of this

new tactic.

Read " Criminals " as " Terrorists. " Anyone care to disagree. We as EMS

professionals will be " in the thick of it " as we approach these scenes.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

When I mentioned Terrorists I mean terrorists. I did not mean the illegal

immigrants who are being duped into riding with these individuals. This is a

new tactic being used. As I mentioned before it is not the tactic of the

illegal immigrant to steal a car to get to where they are going or the " coyotes "

(smugglers of humans). The Coyotes do not get paid if they do not deliver. Facts

of the situation.

I am not using this as a means to cause unrealistic pandemonium. Scene

safety may be about to take on another meaning all together.

Does the meaning become more clear? I think the message was missed the first

time.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

When I mentioned Terrorists I mean terrorists. I did not mean the illegal

immigrants who are being duped into riding with these individuals. This is a

new tactic being used. As I mentioned before it is not the tactic of the

illegal immigrant to steal a car to get to where they are going or the " coyotes "

(smugglers of humans). The Coyotes do not get paid if they do not deliver. Facts

of the situation.

I am not using this as a means to cause unrealistic pandemonium. Scene

safety may be about to take on another meaning all together.

Does the meaning become more clear? I think the message was missed the first

time.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

When I mentioned Terrorists I mean terrorists. I did not mean the illegal

immigrants who are being duped into riding with these individuals. This is a

new tactic being used. As I mentioned before it is not the tactic of the

illegal immigrant to steal a car to get to where they are going or the " coyotes "

(smugglers of humans). The Coyotes do not get paid if they do not deliver. Facts

of the situation.

I am not using this as a means to cause unrealistic pandemonium. Scene

safety may be about to take on another meaning all together.

Does the meaning become more clear? I think the message was missed the first

time.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

Comments below...

> 6 Killed in Arizona As SUV Flees Deputies

> By ANABELLE GARAY, Associated Press Writer

>

> PHOENIX - A stolen truck filled with suspected illegal immigrants sped away

from deputies and rolled over at a busy intersection near an Army post Saturday,

causing an 11-car crash that killed six people and seriously injured 15,

sheriff's officials said.

>

> Passengers were thrown from the truck as it struck a center median and began

to spiral, hitting vehicles waiting at a turn lane, Deputy Chief Randy Redmond

of the Sierra Vista Fire Department said. Investigators think the truck was

traveling at about 90 mph when it lost control near Fort Huachuca in

southeastern Arizona, he said.

>

> At least 20 people were in the truck, Redmond said.

>

> " This is the worst multiple fatality accident I've been on, " Redmond said. " To

have people pinned, the huge language barrier, it was really a horrible,

horrible scene. "

>

> The impact tore the roofs from some cars and trapped some motorists in their

vehicles, Redmond said.

>

> Five people died at the scene. Two people were flown from the scene and

another 20 were transported by ambulance to hospitals, where one victim later

died, according to the fire department.

>

> Cochise County deputies believed the truck was carrying illegal immigrants.

They first saw the vehicle driving out of a brushy area along a highway and

trailed it for a short time, sheriff's spokeswoman Carol Capas said.

>

> Deputies called for backup and stopped chasing the vehicle after the suspect

sped and drove away recklessly, Capas said.

>

> Authorities then spotted the truck heading north on State Route 90. Sierra

Vista police officers used tire deflation devices to slow the vehicle, said

Valenzuela, a spokesman for the Public Safety Department.

>

> The driver lost control shortly before noon at a busy intersection near the

east entrance to Fort Huachuca, an Army post next to Sierra Vista. Traffic in

the area was diverted to Tombstone while authorities investigated.

>

> The vehicle had been reported stolen in Phoenix, Capas said.

>

> Vehicle-related deaths of undocumented immigrants have been on the rise in

Arizona, many of them involving overloaded vehicles used by immigrant smugglers.

>

> Also in the past year or so, authorities have noticed that stolen vehicles are

being used more frequently for smuggling human cargo.

******************************************************

Let me get this straight. We have a truck with at least 20 unsecured

passengers travelling at high speeds. The " only " violation is failure

to yield (yes, that's a violation, I understand, but we're not talking

about felony murder stops, etc. here). The initial pursuing agency,

realizing the danger created by the chase, calls it off.

Another agency then decides to lay out spike strips and NOT clear the

road after doing so, so the truck hits the strips, blows tires, loses

control and strikes other cars in an intersection, AND ejects its

unsecured occupants at high speeds?

I'm against illegal immigration. I'm also against running from the

police. But deciding to use spike strips to cause a high speed

vehicle with unesecured passengers to go out of control seems at the

VERY least a reckless act, and I'd tend to find the police officers in

this situation, at the VERY least, negligent... and even being a cop

myself I'd tend to think that there might be some manslaughter charges

coming. Surely they can't claim that the passengers themselves

induced the flight, or even had control over the driver. Therefore,

these officers recklessly caused the death of SEVERAL individuals...

and injured many more.

I'm probably back-seat driving this one a lot more than I should, but

I'd hope this one becomes a training case...

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

here are some pics on cnn.com

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/17/immigrant.truck.ap/index.html

Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

Comments below...

> 6 Killed in Arizona As SUV Flees Deputies

> By ANABELLE GARAY, Associated Press Writer

>

> PHOENIX - A stolen truck filled with suspected illegal immigrants sped away

from deputies and rolled over at a busy intersection near an Army post Saturday,

causing an 11-car crash that killed six people and seriously injured 15,

sheriff's officials said.

>

> Passengers were thrown from the truck as it struck a center median and began

to spiral, hitting vehicles waiting at a turn lane, Deputy Chief Randy Redmond

of the Sierra Vista Fire Department said. Investigators think the truck was

traveling at about 90 mph when it lost control near Fort Huachuca in

southeastern Arizona, he said.

>

> At least 20 people were in the truck, Redmond said.

>

> " This is the worst multiple fatality accident I've been on, " Redmond said.

" To have people pinned, the huge language barrier, it was really a horrible,

horrible scene. "

>

> The impact tore the roofs from some cars and trapped some motorists in their

vehicles, Redmond said.

>

> Five people died at the scene. Two people were flown from the scene and

another 20 were transported by ambulance to hospitals, where one victim later

died, according to the fire department.

>

> Cochise County deputies believed the truck was carrying illegal immigrants.

They first saw the vehicle driving out of a brushy area along a highway and

trailed it for a short time, sheriff's spokeswoman Carol Capas said.

>

> Deputies called for backup and stopped chasing the vehicle after the suspect

sped and drove away recklessly, Capas said.

>

> Authorities then spotted the truck heading north on State Route 90. Sierra

Vista police officers used tire deflation devices to slow the vehicle, said

Valenzuela, a spokesman for the Public Safety Department.

>

> The driver lost control shortly before noon at a busy intersection near the

east entrance to Fort Huachuca, an Army post next to Sierra Vista. Traffic in

the area was diverted to Tombstone while authorities investigated.

>

> The vehicle had been reported stolen in Phoenix, Capas said.

>

> Vehicle-related deaths of undocumented immigrants have been on the rise in

Arizona, many of them involving overloaded vehicles used by immigrant smugglers.

>

> Also in the past year or so, authorities have noticed that stolen vehicles

are being used more frequently for smuggling human cargo.

******************************************************

Let me get this straight. We have a truck with at least 20 unsecured

passengers travelling at high speeds. The " only " violation is failure

to yield (yes, that's a violation, I understand, but we're not talking

about felony murder stops, etc. here). The initial pursuing agency,

realizing the danger created by the chase, calls it off.

Another agency then decides to lay out spike strips and NOT clear the

road after doing so, so the truck hits the strips, blows tires, loses

control and strikes other cars in an intersection, AND ejects its

unsecured occupants at high speeds?

I'm against illegal immigration. I'm also against running from the

police. But deciding to use spike strips to cause a high speed

vehicle with unesecured passengers to go out of control seems at the

VERY least a reckless act, and I'd tend to find the police officers in

this situation, at the VERY least, negligent... and even being a cop

myself I'd tend to think that there might be some manslaughter charges

coming. Surely they can't claim that the passengers themselves

induced the flight, or even had control over the driver. Therefore,

these officers recklessly caused the death of SEVERAL individuals...

and injured many more.

I'm probably back-seat driving this one a lot more than I should, but

I'd hope this one becomes a training case...

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

and the Sierra Vista Herald newspaper site

http://www.svherald.com/

Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

Comments below...

> 6 Killed in Arizona As SUV Flees Deputies

> By ANABELLE GARAY, Associated Press Writer

>

> PHOENIX - A stolen truck filled with suspected illegal immigrants sped

away from deputies and rolled over at a busy intersection near an Army post

Saturday, causing an 11-car crash that killed six people and seriously injured

15, sheriff's officials said.

>

> Passengers were thrown from the truck as it struck a center median and

began to spiral, hitting vehicles waiting at a turn lane, Deputy Chief Randy

Redmond of the Sierra Vista Fire Department said. Investigators think the truck

was traveling at about 90 mph when it lost control near Fort Huachuca in

southeastern Arizona, he said.

>

> At least 20 people were in the truck, Redmond said.

>

> " This is the worst multiple fatality accident I've been on, " Redmond said.

" To have people pinned, the huge language barrier, it was really a horrible,

horrible scene. "

>

> The impact tore the roofs from some cars and trapped some motorists in

their vehicles, Redmond said.

>

> Five people died at the scene. Two people were flown from the scene and

another 20 were transported by ambulance to hospitals, where one victim later

died, according to the fire department.

>

> Cochise County deputies believed the truck was carrying illegal

immigrants. They first saw the vehicle driving out of a brushy area along a

highway and trailed it for a short time, sheriff's spokeswoman Carol Capas said.

>

> Deputies called for backup and stopped chasing the vehicle after the

suspect sped and drove away recklessly, Capas said.

>

> Authorities then spotted the truck heading north on State Route 90. Sierra

Vista police officers used tire deflation devices to slow the vehicle, said

Valenzuela, a spokesman for the Public Safety Department.

>

> The driver lost control shortly before noon at a busy intersection near

the east entrance to Fort Huachuca, an Army post next to Sierra Vista. Traffic

in the area was diverted to Tombstone while authorities investigated.

>

> The vehicle had been reported stolen in Phoenix, Capas said.

>

> Vehicle-related deaths of undocumented immigrants have been on the rise in

Arizona, many of them involving overloaded vehicles used by immigrant smugglers.

>

> Also in the past year or so, authorities have noticed that stolen vehicles

are being used more frequently for smuggling human cargo.

******************************************************

Let me get this straight. We have a truck with at least 20 unsecured

passengers travelling at high speeds. The " only " violation is failure

to yield (yes, that's a violation, I understand, but we're not talking

about felony murder stops, etc. here). The initial pursuing agency,

realizing the danger created by the chase, calls it off.

Another agency then decides to lay out spike strips and NOT clear the

road after doing so, so the truck hits the strips, blows tires, loses

control and strikes other cars in an intersection, AND ejects its

unsecured occupants at high speeds?

I'm against illegal immigration. I'm also against running from the

police. But deciding to use spike strips to cause a high speed

vehicle with unesecured passengers to go out of control seems at the

VERY least a reckless act, and I'd tend to find the police officers in

this situation, at the VERY least, negligent... and even being a cop

myself I'd tend to think that there might be some manslaughter charges

coming. Surely they can't claim that the passengers themselves

induced the flight, or even had control over the driver. Therefore,

these officers recklessly caused the death of SEVERAL individuals...

and injured many more.

I'm probably back-seat driving this one a lot more than I should, but

I'd hope this one becomes a training case...

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

and the Sierra Vista Herald newspaper site

http://www.svherald.com/

Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

Comments below...

> 6 Killed in Arizona As SUV Flees Deputies

> By ANABELLE GARAY, Associated Press Writer

>

> PHOENIX - A stolen truck filled with suspected illegal immigrants sped

away from deputies and rolled over at a busy intersection near an Army post

Saturday, causing an 11-car crash that killed six people and seriously injured

15, sheriff's officials said.

>

> Passengers were thrown from the truck as it struck a center median and

began to spiral, hitting vehicles waiting at a turn lane, Deputy Chief Randy

Redmond of the Sierra Vista Fire Department said. Investigators think the truck

was traveling at about 90 mph when it lost control near Fort Huachuca in

southeastern Arizona, he said.

>

> At least 20 people were in the truck, Redmond said.

>

> " This is the worst multiple fatality accident I've been on, " Redmond said.

" To have people pinned, the huge language barrier, it was really a horrible,

horrible scene. "

>

> The impact tore the roofs from some cars and trapped some motorists in

their vehicles, Redmond said.

>

> Five people died at the scene. Two people were flown from the scene and

another 20 were transported by ambulance to hospitals, where one victim later

died, according to the fire department.

>

> Cochise County deputies believed the truck was carrying illegal

immigrants. They first saw the vehicle driving out of a brushy area along a

highway and trailed it for a short time, sheriff's spokeswoman Carol Capas said.

>

> Deputies called for backup and stopped chasing the vehicle after the

suspect sped and drove away recklessly, Capas said.

>

> Authorities then spotted the truck heading north on State Route 90. Sierra

Vista police officers used tire deflation devices to slow the vehicle, said

Valenzuela, a spokesman for the Public Safety Department.

>

> The driver lost control shortly before noon at a busy intersection near

the east entrance to Fort Huachuca, an Army post next to Sierra Vista. Traffic

in the area was diverted to Tombstone while authorities investigated.

>

> The vehicle had been reported stolen in Phoenix, Capas said.

>

> Vehicle-related deaths of undocumented immigrants have been on the rise in

Arizona, many of them involving overloaded vehicles used by immigrant smugglers.

>

> Also in the past year or so, authorities have noticed that stolen vehicles

are being used more frequently for smuggling human cargo.

******************************************************

Let me get this straight. We have a truck with at least 20 unsecured

passengers travelling at high speeds. The " only " violation is failure

to yield (yes, that's a violation, I understand, but we're not talking

about felony murder stops, etc. here). The initial pursuing agency,

realizing the danger created by the chase, calls it off.

Another agency then decides to lay out spike strips and NOT clear the

road after doing so, so the truck hits the strips, blows tires, loses

control and strikes other cars in an intersection, AND ejects its

unsecured occupants at high speeds?

I'm against illegal immigration. I'm also against running from the

police. But deciding to use spike strips to cause a high speed

vehicle with unesecured passengers to go out of control seems at the

VERY least a reckless act, and I'd tend to find the police officers in

this situation, at the VERY least, negligent... and even being a cop

myself I'd tend to think that there might be some manslaughter charges

coming. Surely they can't claim that the passengers themselves

induced the flight, or even had control over the driver. Therefore,

these officers recklessly caused the death of SEVERAL individuals...

and injured many more.

I'm probably back-seat driving this one a lot more than I should, but

I'd hope this one becomes a training case...

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

and the Sierra Vista Herald newspaper site

http://www.svherald.com/

Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

Comments below...

> 6 Killed in Arizona As SUV Flees Deputies

> By ANABELLE GARAY, Associated Press Writer

>

> PHOENIX - A stolen truck filled with suspected illegal immigrants sped

away from deputies and rolled over at a busy intersection near an Army post

Saturday, causing an 11-car crash that killed six people and seriously injured

15, sheriff's officials said.

>

> Passengers were thrown from the truck as it struck a center median and

began to spiral, hitting vehicles waiting at a turn lane, Deputy Chief Randy

Redmond of the Sierra Vista Fire Department said. Investigators think the truck

was traveling at about 90 mph when it lost control near Fort Huachuca in

southeastern Arizona, he said.

>

> At least 20 people were in the truck, Redmond said.

>

> " This is the worst multiple fatality accident I've been on, " Redmond said.

" To have people pinned, the huge language barrier, it was really a horrible,

horrible scene. "

>

> The impact tore the roofs from some cars and trapped some motorists in

their vehicles, Redmond said.

>

> Five people died at the scene. Two people were flown from the scene and

another 20 were transported by ambulance to hospitals, where one victim later

died, according to the fire department.

>

> Cochise County deputies believed the truck was carrying illegal

immigrants. They first saw the vehicle driving out of a brushy area along a

highway and trailed it for a short time, sheriff's spokeswoman Carol Capas said.

>

> Deputies called for backup and stopped chasing the vehicle after the

suspect sped and drove away recklessly, Capas said.

>

> Authorities then spotted the truck heading north on State Route 90. Sierra

Vista police officers used tire deflation devices to slow the vehicle, said

Valenzuela, a spokesman for the Public Safety Department.

>

> The driver lost control shortly before noon at a busy intersection near

the east entrance to Fort Huachuca, an Army post next to Sierra Vista. Traffic

in the area was diverted to Tombstone while authorities investigated.

>

> The vehicle had been reported stolen in Phoenix, Capas said.

>

> Vehicle-related deaths of undocumented immigrants have been on the rise in

Arizona, many of them involving overloaded vehicles used by immigrant smugglers.

>

> Also in the past year or so, authorities have noticed that stolen vehicles

are being used more frequently for smuggling human cargo.

******************************************************

Let me get this straight. We have a truck with at least 20 unsecured

passengers travelling at high speeds. The " only " violation is failure

to yield (yes, that's a violation, I understand, but we're not talking

about felony murder stops, etc. here). The initial pursuing agency,

realizing the danger created by the chase, calls it off.

Another agency then decides to lay out spike strips and NOT clear the

road after doing so, so the truck hits the strips, blows tires, loses

control and strikes other cars in an intersection, AND ejects its

unsecured occupants at high speeds?

I'm against illegal immigration. I'm also against running from the

police. But deciding to use spike strips to cause a high speed

vehicle with unesecured passengers to go out of control seems at the

VERY least a reckless act, and I'd tend to find the police officers in

this situation, at the VERY least, negligent... and even being a cop

myself I'd tend to think that there might be some manslaughter charges

coming. Surely they can't claim that the passengers themselves

induced the flight, or even had control over the driver. Therefore,

these officers recklessly caused the death of SEVERAL individuals...

and injured many more.

I'm probably back-seat driving this one a lot more than I should, but

I'd hope this one becomes a training case...

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

> Read " Criminals " as " Terrorists. " Anyone care to disagree. We as EMS

> professionals will be " in the thick of it " as we approach these

> scenes.

I care to disagree. There is a very big difference between someone who

commits your basic crime, be it blue collar, white collar or whatever, and a

terrorist. To think that all criminals are terrorists is dehumanize, and when

we dehumanize, we are no better than the terrorist or criminal involved.

As for being " in the thick of it " when we approach these scenes, yeah, sort

of, but quite honestly, that's what we do, that what we either volunteer to do

or are paid to do. It's what we chose as a career. We need to be aware of

scene safety and do our best to care for the victims, who, as they are laying

there on the road bleeding out or whatever are NOT terrorists. They are

human beings, like you and me, and our families, and they are hurting. It's

not our job to decide if they are terrorists or not. We are trained to care for

them, not judge them in any way except for triageing them and we better be

damned sure that we are not triageing out of a prejudice for some color of

skin, or hair, or shape of eye, but for what the injury really is and how

serious the victim is.

As for criminals being terrorists, that's backwards. All terrorists are

criminals, but not all criminals are terrorists. Someone who steals your

purse or wallet or even mugs you is not in the same category as someone

who blows up the three block radius around the building that you work in.

Perspective, people. Don't buy into hysteria.

Yes, that was a doozie of an MCI in Sierra Vista. No, it's probably not the

worst MCI that's ever happened, nor will it be the last MCI that's ever

happened. Just because the vehicle that caused the accident was full of

illegals does not make it full of terrorists.

Carol

Getting down off my soapbox now.

[Guest guest]

Should south Texas ems carry guns on there anti terrorist ems units for national

defense.

Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

When I mentioned Terrorists I mean terrorists. I did not mean the illegal

immigrants who are being duped into riding with these individuals. This is a

new tactic being used. As I mentioned before it is not the tactic of the

illegal immigrant to steal a car to get to where they are going or the

" coyotes "

(smugglers of humans). The Coyotes do not get paid if they do not deliver.

Facts

of the situation.

I am not using this as a means to cause unrealistic pandemonium. Scene

safety may be about to take on another meaning all together.

Does the meaning become more clear? I think the message was missed the first

time.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

No. Ethically blurs the line between being a patient advocate and a cop.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

Should south Texas ems carry guns on there anti terrorist ems units for

national defense.

Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

When I mentioned Terrorists I mean terrorists. I did not mean the illegal

immigrants who are being duped into riding with these individuals. This

is a

new tactic being used. As I mentioned before it is not the tactic of the

illegal immigrant to steal a car to get to where they are going or the

" coyotes "

(smugglers of humans). The Coyotes do not get paid if they do not deliver.

Facts

of the situation.

I am not using this as a means to cause unrealistic pandemonium. Scene

safety may be about to take on another meaning all together.

Does the meaning become more clear? I think the message was missed the

first

time.

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

FAX

[Guest guest]

Oh, Hell no!

I think that this " national defense " stuff has gotten way out of hand. If you

want to carry a gun, join the military.

No, I am not an advocate of gun control or gun registration or restrictions.

Yes, I support the Second Ammendment AS IT IS WRITTEN, not as it is

interpretted by many. I don't think that guns and EMS should be considered

in the same sentence.

Carol

> Should south Texas ems carry guns on there anti terrorist ems units

> for national defense.

> Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a

> place to

> happen

>

>

> When I mentioned Terrorists I mean terrorists. I did not mean the

> illegal immigrants who are being duped into riding with these

> individuals. This is

> a

> new tactic being used. As I mentioned before it is not the tactic of

> the illegal immigrant to steal a car to get to where they are going

> or the

> " coyotes "

> (smugglers of humans). The Coyotes do not get paid if they do not

> deliver.

> Facts

> of the situation.

>

> I am not using this as a means to cause unrealistic pandemonium.

> Scene safety may be about to take on another meaning all together.

>

> Does the meaning become more clear? I think the message was missed

> the

> first

> time.

>

> Danny L.

> Owner/NREMT-P

> Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

> (PETSAR)

> Office

> FAX

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, Hell no!

I think that this " national defense " stuff has gotten way out of hand. If you

want to carry a gun, join the military.

No, I am not an advocate of gun control or gun registration or restrictions.

Yes, I support the Second Ammendment AS IT IS WRITTEN, not as it is

interpretted by many. I don't think that guns and EMS should be considered

in the same sentence.

Carol

> Should south Texas ems carry guns on there anti terrorist ems units

> for national defense.

> Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a

> place to

> happen

>

>

> When I mentioned Terrorists I mean terrorists. I did not mean the

> illegal immigrants who are being duped into riding with these

> individuals. This is

> a

> new tactic being used. As I mentioned before it is not the tactic of

> the illegal immigrant to steal a car to get to where they are going

> or the

> " coyotes "

> (smugglers of humans). The Coyotes do not get paid if they do not

> deliver.

> Facts

> of the situation.

>

> I am not using this as a means to cause unrealistic pandemonium.

> Scene safety may be about to take on another meaning all together.

>

> Does the meaning become more clear? I think the message was missed

> the

> first

> time.

>

> Danny L.

> Owner/NREMT-P

> Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

> (PETSAR)

> Office

> FAX

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, Hell no!

I think that this " national defense " stuff has gotten way out of hand. If you

want to carry a gun, join the military.

No, I am not an advocate of gun control or gun registration or restrictions.

Yes, I support the Second Ammendment AS IT IS WRITTEN, not as it is

interpretted by many. I don't think that guns and EMS should be considered

in the same sentence.

Carol

> Should south Texas ems carry guns on there anti terrorist ems units

> for national defense.

> Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a

> place to

> happen

>

>

> When I mentioned Terrorists I mean terrorists. I did not mean the

> illegal immigrants who are being duped into riding with these

> individuals. This is

> a

> new tactic being used. As I mentioned before it is not the tactic of

> the illegal immigrant to steal a car to get to where they are going

> or the

> " coyotes "

> (smugglers of humans). The Coyotes do not get paid if they do not

> deliver.

> Facts

> of the situation.

>

> I am not using this as a means to cause unrealistic pandemonium.

> Scene safety may be about to take on another meaning all together.

>

> Does the meaning become more clear? I think the message was missed

> the

> first

> time.

>

> Danny L.

> Owner/NREMT-P

> Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

> (PETSAR)

> Office

> FAX

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why can't you be a patient advocate and a cop? Others, as well as myself, do it

with no ethically blurred lines.

Cpl. Moseley, LP

Cleburne PD SWAT

Tactical Paramedic

Pager:

RE: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

No. Ethically blurs the line between being a patient advocate and a cop.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[Guest guest]

Olney cops should be ems people that way if some one is sick enough and is not a

legal citizen they could just shoot them like a horse with a broken leg. That is

why the farmer said he was ok at the accident scene when asked by the state

trooper after the cop shot the hurt horse that was injured in the wreak.

:-)

RE: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

No. Ethically blurs the line between being a patient advocate and a cop.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[Guest guest]

What if the patient is intoxicated and you are responding as a paramedic? Do

you arrest him? If so, you disclosed confidential patient information to the

police. Everywhere the DPS system has been attempted, EMS has been the

stepchild and most of the departments have reverted to more traditional

models.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

Why can't you be a patient advocate and a cop? Others, as well as myself,

do it with no ethically blurred lines.

Cpl. Moseley, LP

Cleburne PD SWAT

Tactical Paramedic

Pager:

RE: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

No. Ethically blurs the line between being a patient advocate and a cop.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[Guest guest]

What if the patient is intoxicated and you are responding as a paramedic? Do

you arrest him? If so, you disclosed confidential patient information to the

police. Everywhere the DPS system has been attempted, EMS has been the

stepchild and most of the departments have reverted to more traditional

models.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

Why can't you be a patient advocate and a cop? Others, as well as myself,

do it with no ethically blurred lines.

Cpl. Moseley, LP

Cleburne PD SWAT

Tactical Paramedic

Pager:

RE: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

No. Ethically blurs the line between being a patient advocate and a cop.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[Guest guest]

What if the patient is intoxicated and you are responding as a paramedic? Do

you arrest him? If so, you disclosed confidential patient information to the

police. Everywhere the DPS system has been attempted, EMS has been the

stepchild and most of the departments have reverted to more traditional

models.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

Why can't you be a patient advocate and a cop? Others, as well as myself,

do it with no ethically blurred lines.

Cpl. Moseley, LP

Cleburne PD SWAT

Tactical Paramedic

Pager:

RE: A mass casualty incident, looking for a place to

happen

No. Ethically blurs the line between being a patient advocate and a cop.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[Guest guest]

I am going to say that it depends. All officers have discretion whether to

arrest, cite or none of the above. And what would you be doing, disclosing

patient information to yourself? I am not going to let myself know that

info? Give me a break. Nah, I don't buy that police and EMS can't be

meshed. It can be done, and is done. Now, that being said, it needs to be

done with much wisdom and integrity, which we should possess anyway.

I am not so sure about your statement, Dr. B, that " Everywhere the DPS

system has been attempted, EMS has been the stepchild and most of the

departments have reverted to more traditional models. " I can't cite any off

of the top of my head, but I know that police agencies, in other states at

least, are the sole EMS providers in some areas.

Corporal Moseley, LP

Cleburne PD SWAT

Tactical Paramedic

Pager:

What if the patient is intoxicated and you are responding as a paramedic? Do

you arrest him? If so, you disclosed confidential patient information to the

police. Everywhere the DPS system has been attempted, EMS has been the

stepchild and most of the departments have reverted to more traditional

models.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[Guest guest]

I am going to say that it depends. All officers have discretion whether to

arrest, cite or none of the above. And what would you be doing, disclosing

patient information to yourself? I am not going to let myself know that

info? Give me a break. Nah, I don't buy that police and EMS can't be

meshed. It can be done, and is done. Now, that being said, it needs to be

done with much wisdom and integrity, which we should possess anyway.

I am not so sure about your statement, Dr. B, that " Everywhere the DPS

system has been attempted, EMS has been the stepchild and most of the

departments have reverted to more traditional models. " I can't cite any off

of the top of my head, but I know that police agencies, in other states at

least, are the sole EMS providers in some areas.

Corporal Moseley, LP

Cleburne PD SWAT

Tactical Paramedic

Pager:

What if the patient is intoxicated and you are responding as a paramedic? Do

you arrest him? If so, you disclosed confidential patient information to the

police. Everywhere the DPS system has been attempted, EMS has been the

stepchild and most of the departments have reverted to more traditional

models.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[Guest guest]

I am going to say that it depends. All officers have discretion whether to

arrest, cite or none of the above. And what would you be doing, disclosing

patient information to yourself? I am not going to let myself know that

info? Give me a break. Nah, I don't buy that police and EMS can't be

meshed. It can be done, and is done. Now, that being said, it needs to be

done with much wisdom and integrity, which we should possess anyway.

I am not so sure about your statement, Dr. B, that " Everywhere the DPS

system has been attempted, EMS has been the stepchild and most of the

departments have reverted to more traditional models. " I can't cite any off

of the top of my head, but I know that police agencies, in other states at

least, are the sole EMS providers in some areas.

Corporal Moseley, LP

Cleburne PD SWAT

Tactical Paramedic

Pager:

What if the patient is intoxicated and you are responding as a paramedic? Do

you arrest him? If so, you disclosed confidential patient information to the

police. Everywhere the DPS system has been attempted, EMS has been the

stepchild and most of the departments have reverted to more traditional

models.

BEB

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[Guest guest]

Aren't Highland Park and Watagua in the D/FW area both running the DPS model

still? And isn't Southlake running some variant of a DPS model?

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-B (passed, registered, waiting on arrival of

paperwork)