Re: Rational Recovery needs to get real and be proactive

[Guest guest]

> > Have you ever read a novel where the heroine was in recovery from

> > recovery? Seen it in a movie? On TV? In the paper?

>

> Hey, I bet you could get a pretty decent Harlequin romance out of

> this idea. A beautiful young alcoholic woman, doing her best to

work

> the Steps even though they make no sense to her. She's trapped in

an

> unfulfilling relationship with a Book Thumper guy she met in AA.

Then

> one day, a mysterious and broodingly handsome stranger walks into

the

> meeting room. The leader calls on him to share. He says, " My name

is

> Mr. Reindeer and I think this 12-Step business is a load of

> folderol! " Their eyes meet... she feels a strange inexplicable

> attraction.

>

> Now, I've got to think of a title for it. Something like " In Denial

> of Love " might be good. Or " Working a Forbidden Program. "

lol! HAR....! " folderol! " :^D

This is a great IDEA!

AA people in fiction that popped into my mind are Scudder in

the Lawrence Block mysteries and Sipowitcz and his ex on NYPD Blue...

[Guest guest]

> > Have you ever read a novel where the heroine was in recovery from

> > recovery? Seen it in a movie? On TV? In the paper?

>

> Hey, I bet you could get a pretty decent Harlequin romance out of

> this idea. A beautiful young alcoholic woman, doing her best to

work

> the Steps even though they make no sense to her. She's trapped in

an

> unfulfilling relationship with a Book Thumper guy she met in AA.

Then

> one day, a mysterious and broodingly handsome stranger walks into

the

> meeting room. The leader calls on him to share. He says, " My name

is

> Mr. Reindeer and I think this 12-Step business is a load of

> folderol! " Their eyes meet... she feels a strange inexplicable

> attraction.

>

> Now, I've got to think of a title for it. Something like " In Denial

> of Love " might be good. Or " Working a Forbidden Program. "

lol! HAR....! " folderol! " :^D

This is a great IDEA!

AA people in fiction that popped into my mind are Scudder in

the Lawrence Block mysteries and Sipowitcz and his ex on NYPD Blue...

[Guest guest]

> > Have you ever read a novel where the heroine was in recovery from

> > recovery? Seen it in a movie? On TV? In the paper?

>

> Hey, I bet you could get a pretty decent Harlequin romance out of

> this idea. A beautiful young alcoholic woman, doing her best to

work

> the Steps even though they make no sense to her. She's trapped in

an

> unfulfilling relationship with a Book Thumper guy she met in AA.

Then

> one day, a mysterious and broodingly handsome stranger walks into

the

> meeting room. The leader calls on him to share. He says, " My name

is

> Mr. Reindeer and I think this 12-Step business is a load of

> folderol! " Their eyes meet... she feels a strange inexplicable

> attraction.

>

> Now, I've got to think of a title for it. Something like " In Denial

> of Love " might be good. Or " Working a Forbidden Program. "

lol! HAR....! " folderol! " :^D

This is a great IDEA!

AA people in fiction that popped into my mind are Scudder in

the Lawrence Block mysteries and Sipowitcz and his ex on NYPD Blue...

[Guest guest]

> By cancelling RR meetings, Trimpey is denying the benefits of AVRT

to those

> who don't have computer access, to those who have to show meeting

> attendance for court compliance, for those who learn by

> discussion/instruction rather than by reading. He is guaranteeing

that RR

> will forever remain a small minority. He is shooting his own

organization

> in the foot. It has nothing to do with meeting addiction, and

everything to

> do with Trimpey's power trip.

>

> Dixie

Have you ever heard of a library? anyone can use RR books for free.

[Guest guest]

> By cancelling RR meetings, Trimpey is denying the benefits of AVRT

to those

> who don't have computer access, to those who have to show meeting

> attendance for court compliance, for those who learn by

> discussion/instruction rather than by reading. He is guaranteeing

that RR

> will forever remain a small minority. He is shooting his own

organization

> in the foot. It has nothing to do with meeting addiction, and

everything to

> do with Trimpey's power trip.

>

> Dixie

Have you ever heard of a library? anyone can use RR books for free.

[Guest guest]

> By cancelling RR meetings, Trimpey is denying the benefits of AVRT

to those

> who don't have computer access, to those who have to show meeting

> attendance for court compliance, for those who learn by

> discussion/instruction rather than by reading. He is guaranteeing

that RR

> will forever remain a small minority. He is shooting his own

organization

> in the foot. It has nothing to do with meeting addiction, and

everything to

> do with Trimpey's power trip.

>

> Dixie

Have you ever heard of a library? anyone can use RR books for free.

[Guest guest]

> Hi Dixie,

> Let's look at your responses

> You said " deciding isn't enough " . Yes it is. If one decide's not

to drink

> and then returns to drinking, either that person A) didn't really

decide,

> that is,there were reservations or that person changed his

mind. In both

> cases (which I've experienced) one is free to reap the

reward/punishment of

> his/her behavior.

If you get rid of all the disease nonsense, failure is a

> terrific teacher and motivator to A) really decide and never

change your

> mind. (where I am now). One more thing. There are no issues in

RR. That

> whole idea is AA nonsense. Let me assure you, I get hungry, angry,

lonely,

> tired, I have resentments, problems in relationships, births,

deaths, I

> succeed at some things and fail at others etc, etc. This is called

being

> human and has nothing I repeat NOTHING to do with drinking or

drugging.

> Where did that nonsense come from? Trimpey is not blasting support

groups

> (nor am I). Of course people need support if they have cancer (a

real

> disease) or lose a loved one etc. But, if one decides to go to

France over

> the summer as opposed to decides not to go, support just isn't

applicable,

> likewise a decision to not drink/use no more requires support then

a decision

> to drink or use.

Hi,

This is a really interesting point, but I don't agree. People are

constantly around other people, whether in a meeting or not, and what

those people are doing affects them. If you start to be around

people who aren't drinking, and it isn't the same cultural thing with

them, that makes it easier to see the benefits of your own decision

for yourself. The sad thing is, if the people who are sober are all

*high on god* in the AA sense, that isn't such a good trade-off.

I'm saying this because I recently went to a SMART meeting. The

frenetic AA energy and ass-kissing (program spouting) wasn't there.

It was much more discussion oriented, rather than " drunkalogue "

oriented. People talked about issues in their lives they felt had

contributed to their drinking and about their mental process, sans

all that " self-will " crap, that led to the drinking episode.

For many people, the change from being a drinker to being sober,

however one defines that for himself, is a huge change. While some

people may be able to make a single decision and stick with it

forever, that is a rare person from what I've seen. There is a

learning process that takes place regarding how to cope with life's

issues without drinking/using. It is comfortable, familiar, and

works in the short term to drink. It's a little harder to look at

what is making someone upset and use other methods to cope. Seeing

other people do just that can make a big difference.

That said, I HEARTILY oppose AA's coping methods. Powerlessness and

disease concepts are damaging and create a dependency on the group.

I really think that's why the group has grown to such proportions.

I do have to confess that it has been years since I've read RR's

literature. I went to one meeting before the scism. It was run by a

very fat man professing to be an athiest who laid out the plan and

told us we were cured. It was just a lecture about our beast selves

overrunning everything. He lost a lot of credibility with me when he

rationalized lighting up a big cigar in the meeting! So, I will need

to revisit the RR stuff. From what I've heard about RR, I can see

why meetings would be anathema to them.

Fortunately for everyone, it isn't an either/or situation. There are

plenty of other roads away from addiction that aren't as extreme as

either RR or AA.

[Guest guest]

> Hi Dixie,

> Let's look at your responses

> You said " deciding isn't enough " . Yes it is. If one decide's not

to drink

> and then returns to drinking, either that person A) didn't really

decide,

> that is,there were reservations or that person changed his

mind. In both

> cases (which I've experienced) one is free to reap the

reward/punishment of

> his/her behavior.

If you get rid of all the disease nonsense, failure is a

> terrific teacher and motivator to A) really decide and never

change your

> mind. (where I am now). One more thing. There are no issues in

RR. That

> whole idea is AA nonsense. Let me assure you, I get hungry, angry,

lonely,

> tired, I have resentments, problems in relationships, births,

deaths, I

> succeed at some things and fail at others etc, etc. This is called

being

> human and has nothing I repeat NOTHING to do with drinking or

drugging.

> Where did that nonsense come from? Trimpey is not blasting support

groups

> (nor am I). Of course people need support if they have cancer (a

real

> disease) or lose a loved one etc. But, if one decides to go to

France over

> the summer as opposed to decides not to go, support just isn't

applicable,

> likewise a decision to not drink/use no more requires support then

a decision

> to drink or use.

Hi,

This is a really interesting point, but I don't agree. People are

constantly around other people, whether in a meeting or not, and what

those people are doing affects them. If you start to be around

people who aren't drinking, and it isn't the same cultural thing with

them, that makes it easier to see the benefits of your own decision

for yourself. The sad thing is, if the people who are sober are all

*high on god* in the AA sense, that isn't such a good trade-off.

I'm saying this because I recently went to a SMART meeting. The

frenetic AA energy and ass-kissing (program spouting) wasn't there.

It was much more discussion oriented, rather than " drunkalogue "

oriented. People talked about issues in their lives they felt had

contributed to their drinking and about their mental process, sans

all that " self-will " crap, that led to the drinking episode.

For many people, the change from being a drinker to being sober,

however one defines that for himself, is a huge change. While some

people may be able to make a single decision and stick with it

forever, that is a rare person from what I've seen. There is a

learning process that takes place regarding how to cope with life's

issues without drinking/using. It is comfortable, familiar, and

works in the short term to drink. It's a little harder to look at

what is making someone upset and use other methods to cope. Seeing

other people do just that can make a big difference.

That said, I HEARTILY oppose AA's coping methods. Powerlessness and

disease concepts are damaging and create a dependency on the group.

I really think that's why the group has grown to such proportions.

I do have to confess that it has been years since I've read RR's

literature. I went to one meeting before the scism. It was run by a

very fat man professing to be an athiest who laid out the plan and

told us we were cured. It was just a lecture about our beast selves

overrunning everything. He lost a lot of credibility with me when he

rationalized lighting up a big cigar in the meeting! So, I will need

to revisit the RR stuff. From what I've heard about RR, I can see

why meetings would be anathema to them.

Fortunately for everyone, it isn't an either/or situation. There are

plenty of other roads away from addiction that aren't as extreme as

either RR or AA.

[Guest guest]

> Hi Dixie,

> Let's look at your responses

> You said " deciding isn't enough " . Yes it is. If one decide's not

to drink

> and then returns to drinking, either that person A) didn't really

decide,

> that is,there were reservations or that person changed his

mind. In both

> cases (which I've experienced) one is free to reap the

reward/punishment of

> his/her behavior.

If you get rid of all the disease nonsense, failure is a

> terrific teacher and motivator to A) really decide and never

change your

> mind. (where I am now). One more thing. There are no issues in

RR. That

> whole idea is AA nonsense. Let me assure you, I get hungry, angry,

lonely,

> tired, I have resentments, problems in relationships, births,

deaths, I

> succeed at some things and fail at others etc, etc. This is called

being

> human and has nothing I repeat NOTHING to do with drinking or

drugging.

> Where did that nonsense come from? Trimpey is not blasting support

groups

> (nor am I). Of course people need support if they have cancer (a

real

> disease) or lose a loved one etc. But, if one decides to go to

France over

> the summer as opposed to decides not to go, support just isn't

applicable,

> likewise a decision to not drink/use no more requires support then

a decision

> to drink or use.

Hi,

This is a really interesting point, but I don't agree. People are

constantly around other people, whether in a meeting or not, and what

those people are doing affects them. If you start to be around

people who aren't drinking, and it isn't the same cultural thing with

them, that makes it easier to see the benefits of your own decision

for yourself. The sad thing is, if the people who are sober are all

*high on god* in the AA sense, that isn't such a good trade-off.

I'm saying this because I recently went to a SMART meeting. The

frenetic AA energy and ass-kissing (program spouting) wasn't there.

It was much more discussion oriented, rather than " drunkalogue "

oriented. People talked about issues in their lives they felt had

contributed to their drinking and about their mental process, sans

all that " self-will " crap, that led to the drinking episode.

For many people, the change from being a drinker to being sober,

however one defines that for himself, is a huge change. While some

people may be able to make a single decision and stick with it

forever, that is a rare person from what I've seen. There is a

learning process that takes place regarding how to cope with life's

issues without drinking/using. It is comfortable, familiar, and

works in the short term to drink. It's a little harder to look at

what is making someone upset and use other methods to cope. Seeing

other people do just that can make a big difference.

That said, I HEARTILY oppose AA's coping methods. Powerlessness and

disease concepts are damaging and create a dependency on the group.

I really think that's why the group has grown to such proportions.

I do have to confess that it has been years since I've read RR's

literature. I went to one meeting before the scism. It was run by a

very fat man professing to be an athiest who laid out the plan and

told us we were cured. It was just a lecture about our beast selves

overrunning everything. He lost a lot of credibility with me when he

rationalized lighting up a big cigar in the meeting! So, I will need

to revisit the RR stuff. From what I've heard about RR, I can see

why meetings would be anathema to them.

Fortunately for everyone, it isn't an either/or situation. There are

plenty of other roads away from addiction that aren't as extreme as

either RR or AA.