Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Hi Joy! I have FMS and MPS. My doctor thought they were the same disorder too. After reading the book I realized that I had to work to treat both syndromes. I will probably buy every book Starlanyl's writes. It is easy to understand is explains exactly what wrong and ways to treat it. I have a new book, Freedom From Fibromyalgia which is helping with the emotional effects of having a disease that wears you down before you deal with your life, children, doctors, daily emergencies and idiots who just don't have a clue. There's my sandbox for the day. I am the type of person who deals with things intellectually. I feel better when I understand. That is difficult with FMS/MPS because there are many unknowns. Deep Pfrimmer massage therapy and Cranial Sacral therapy kept me moving for almost four years. Four months after I could not afford to pay for it anymore, the pain became so severe that I had to quit working. Now I am in physcial therapy. The therapist is doing trigger point therapy and it is really helping with mobility. The pain is still severe, but I can move. I have to force myself to do it. The therapy is very painful, but it is wonderful to walk with only on walking stick and know that I can avoid being in a wheelchair for a few more years (I hope). I treat the squeaky wheel. If the MPS areas are causing the most pain I do what Starlanyl's recommends for MPS. If the FMS is worse then I do what is recommended for FMS. Sometimes it is osteo-arthritis and then I just have to wait it out. Don't give up. These groups have helped me alot. My life is baaaad to the bone right now, but hearing from others helps me keep trying. Feel free to email me direct or add me to your IM. I'll be glad to talk with you. I have been diagnosed since 1995. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Hi Joy! I have FMS and MPS. My doctor thought they were the same disorder too. After reading the book I realized that I had to work to treat both syndromes. I will probably buy every book Starlanyl's writes. It is easy to understand is explains exactly what wrong and ways to treat it. I have a new book, Freedom From Fibromyalgia which is helping with the emotional effects of having a disease that wears you down before you deal with your life, children, doctors, daily emergencies and idiots who just don't have a clue. There's my sandbox for the day. I am the type of person who deals with things intellectually. I feel better when I understand. That is difficult with FMS/MPS because there are many unknowns. Deep Pfrimmer massage therapy and Cranial Sacral therapy kept me moving for almost four years. Four months after I could not afford to pay for it anymore, the pain became so severe that I had to quit working. Now I am in physcial therapy. The therapist is doing trigger point therapy and it is really helping with mobility. The pain is still severe, but I can move. I have to force myself to do it. The therapy is very painful, but it is wonderful to walk with only on walking stick and know that I can avoid being in a wheelchair for a few more years (I hope). I treat the squeaky wheel. If the MPS areas are causing the most pain I do what Starlanyl's recommends for MPS. If the FMS is worse then I do what is recommended for FMS. Sometimes it is osteo-arthritis and then I just have to wait it out. Don't give up. These groups have helped me alot. My life is baaaad to the bone right now, but hearing from others helps me keep trying. Feel free to email me direct or add me to your IM. I'll be glad to talk with you. I have been diagnosed since 1995. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Dear , I am so sorry to hear you are in so much pain, if there is one person there are more out there who know what you are going through. I feel like that certain days and I complain, I do, however have some good days. But as the months go by I feel my level of tolorence of the pain and the flare ups getting worse. We have reach the period where I no longer can afford the massages either. So I feel for your pain and reconize it. I assume you do not work. I am working part-time and do not know how much longer I can keep it up. But how do the bills get paid. Please write me and if you want give me your im name, mine is deerncharmer. I would love to chat with you and if I can do anything for you, by giving out my phone # I would be glad too. I just wanted to know is seems so hopeless, but God above has a reason for all of this and he has a plan for us. I hope you did not mind me saying that I will say a prayer for you. If that is not your preference. I will not be offended. But sometimes it is the only thing that keeps me going. Deana On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:11:33 EDT catherinej3@... writes: > Hi Joy! I have FMS and MPS. My doctor thought they were the same > disorder > too. After reading the book I realized that I had to work to treat > both > syndromes. I will probably buy every book Starlanyl's writes. It > is easy to > understand is explains exactly what wrong and ways to treat it. I > have a new > book, Freedom From Fibromyalgia which is helping with the emotional > effects > of having a disease that wears you down before you deal with your > life, > children, doctors, daily emergencies and idiots who just don't have > a clue. > There's my sandbox for the day. I am the type of person who deals > with > things intellectually. I feel better when I understand. That is > difficult > with FMS/MPS because there are many unknowns. Deep Pfrimmer massage > therapy > and Cranial Sacral therapy kept me moving for almost four years. > Four months > after I could not afford to pay for it anymore, the pain became so > severe > that I had to quit working. Now I am in physcial therapy. The > therapist is > doing trigger point therapy and it is really helping with mobility. > The pain > is still severe, but I can move. I have to force myself to do it. > The > therapy is very painful, but it is wonderful to walk with only on > walking > stick and know that I can avoid being in a wheelchair for a few more > years (I > hope). I treat the squeaky wheel. If the MPS areas are causing the > most > pain I do what Starlanyl's recommends for MPS. If the FMS is worse > then I do > what is recommended for FMS. Sometimes it is osteo-arthritis and > then I just > have to wait it out. Don't give up. These groups have helped me > alot. My > life is baaaad to the bone right now, but hearing from others helps > me keep > trying. Feel free to email me direct or add me to your IM. I'll be > glad to > talk with you. I have been diagnosed since 1995. LOL > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Dear , I am so sorry to hear you are in so much pain, if there is one person there are more out there who know what you are going through. I feel like that certain days and I complain, I do, however have some good days. But as the months go by I feel my level of tolorence of the pain and the flare ups getting worse. We have reach the period where I no longer can afford the massages either. So I feel for your pain and reconize it. I assume you do not work. I am working part-time and do not know how much longer I can keep it up. But how do the bills get paid. Please write me and if you want give me your im name, mine is deerncharmer. I would love to chat with you and if I can do anything for you, by giving out my phone # I would be glad too. I just wanted to know is seems so hopeless, but God above has a reason for all of this and he has a plan for us. I hope you did not mind me saying that I will say a prayer for you. If that is not your preference. I will not be offended. But sometimes it is the only thing that keeps me going. Deana On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:11:33 EDT catherinej3@... writes: > Hi Joy! I have FMS and MPS. My doctor thought they were the same > disorder > too. After reading the book I realized that I had to work to treat > both > syndromes. I will probably buy every book Starlanyl's writes. It > is easy to > understand is explains exactly what wrong and ways to treat it. I > have a new > book, Freedom From Fibromyalgia which is helping with the emotional > effects > of having a disease that wears you down before you deal with your > life, > children, doctors, daily emergencies and idiots who just don't have > a clue. > There's my sandbox for the day. I am the type of person who deals > with > things intellectually. I feel better when I understand. That is > difficult > with FMS/MPS because there are many unknowns. Deep Pfrimmer massage > therapy > and Cranial Sacral therapy kept me moving for almost four years. > Four months > after I could not afford to pay for it anymore, the pain became so > severe > that I had to quit working. Now I am in physcial therapy. The > therapist is > doing trigger point therapy and it is really helping with mobility. > The pain > is still severe, but I can move. I have to force myself to do it. > The > therapy is very painful, but it is wonderful to walk with only on > walking > stick and know that I can avoid being in a wheelchair for a few more > years (I > hope). I treat the squeaky wheel. If the MPS areas are causing the > most > pain I do what Starlanyl's recommends for MPS. If the FMS is worse > then I do > what is recommended for FMS. Sometimes it is osteo-arthritis and > then I just > have to wait it out. Don't give up. These groups have helped me > alot. My > life is baaaad to the bone right now, but hearing from others helps > me keep > trying. Feel free to email me direct or add me to your IM. I'll be > glad to > talk with you. I have been diagnosed since 1995. LOL > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Dear , I am so sorry to hear you are in so much pain, if there is one person there are more out there who know what you are going through. I feel like that certain days and I complain, I do, however have some good days. But as the months go by I feel my level of tolorence of the pain and the flare ups getting worse. We have reach the period where I no longer can afford the massages either. So I feel for your pain and reconize it. I assume you do not work. I am working part-time and do not know how much longer I can keep it up. But how do the bills get paid. Please write me and if you want give me your im name, mine is deerncharmer. I would love to chat with you and if I can do anything for you, by giving out my phone # I would be glad too. I just wanted to know is seems so hopeless, but God above has a reason for all of this and he has a plan for us. I hope you did not mind me saying that I will say a prayer for you. If that is not your preference. I will not be offended. But sometimes it is the only thing that keeps me going. Deana On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:11:33 EDT catherinej3@... writes: > Hi Joy! I have FMS and MPS. My doctor thought they were the same > disorder > too. After reading the book I realized that I had to work to treat > both > syndromes. I will probably buy every book Starlanyl's writes. It > is easy to > understand is explains exactly what wrong and ways to treat it. I > have a new > book, Freedom From Fibromyalgia which is helping with the emotional > effects > of having a disease that wears you down before you deal with your > life, > children, doctors, daily emergencies and idiots who just don't have > a clue. > There's my sandbox for the day. I am the type of person who deals > with > things intellectually. I feel better when I understand. That is > difficult > with FMS/MPS because there are many unknowns. Deep Pfrimmer massage > therapy > and Cranial Sacral therapy kept me moving for almost four years. > Four months > after I could not afford to pay for it anymore, the pain became so > severe > that I had to quit working. Now I am in physcial therapy. The > therapist is > doing trigger point therapy and it is really helping with mobility. > The pain > is still severe, but I can move. I have to force myself to do it. > The > therapy is very painful, but it is wonderful to walk with only on > walking > stick and know that I can avoid being in a wheelchair for a few more > years (I > hope). I treat the squeaky wheel. If the MPS areas are causing the > most > pain I do what Starlanyl's recommends for MPS. If the FMS is worse > then I do > what is recommended for FMS. Sometimes it is osteo-arthritis and > then I just > have to wait it out. Don't give up. These groups have helped me > alot. My > life is baaaad to the bone right now, but hearing from others helps > me keep > trying. Feel free to email me direct or add me to your IM. I'll be > glad to > talk with you. I have been diagnosed since 1995. LOL > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 In a message dated 5/24/01 10:29:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, abraxis3@... writes: > Feed yourself with > positive thoughts like, I'm having a great day..even > when it is lousy, and watch how the next day will be > better...it works! > Take care, LOL > Sue > Sue, What beautiful advice you have. Let me know on our little group what you do or have done for a living. You seem like you were in the therapy business. Absolute BEAUTIFUL advice. Does LOL also stand for lot's of love and laugh out loud? How do you know the difference? Kathy D. Diagnosed in 98 Live in Western Massachusetts Married for almost 19yrs, to a sweetheart Mother to 16 and 14 My Rottie dog Shelby Spooky the cat Hobbies: Boating, Learning this computer Arts & Crafts, and a passionate reader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2001 Report Share Posted May 26, 2001 abraxis3@... Dear Kathy, I tried to answer you last night, but I kept losing my message before I could get it sent!!! I was really getting upset, cause the computer kept disconnecting me and I lost everything I typed! I finally gave up and went to bed! So, I'm finally attempting this again! I never took psychological courses or worked at counseling anyone...I simply have my own life experiences and my understanding from my search into spirituality to draw from. I know what has helped me, and I like to share that with others. I know how much I have suffered, not only physically, but emotionally over the years...in fact, all of my life,...'up until now'! My life has been full of many losses and traumatic events. I've undergone therapy, shock treatments, more therapy, medications and I finally found relief in spirituality. I've learned how my thoughts and beliefs have manifested my experiences, both by experimentation and retrospection. I've also learned that I have thoughts that aren't my own! I'll try to explain that with an example: One day I was upset and I said to myself, " Nobody loves me..nobody cares about me " . I can't count the times in my life that I have thought those same thoughts, but never before had I ever questioned 'where' they came from! I then remembered that my mother use to say it all the time, everytime she got upset...which was a lot! So, as a child, I copied her, and have carried those thoughts with me all of my life! Never questioning them, but truly believing them. I've pushed people away, and I didn't have to do anything...they just stayed away...so I've discovered that we truly are connected consciously. When I started to tell myself that I was worthy of love and loveable, I noticed them coming back, and I also had others coming into my life, all of a sudden! How many other things I think and believe didn't originate in my mind by my choice?!!! Another way that I can have other people's thoughts may be hard to accept unless you have experienced it yourself, but one day I was at work, and my co-worker was sitting close to me. My day had started just fine. I was happy. I was working and listening to my music and humming, when all of sudden I started to think things like, I want to go home...I hate this place. " I loved my job!!! I stopped what I was doing and said to myself, " Where did that come from? " I looked over at my co-worker and noticed she didn't look happy. I said, " Well, Jackie, how are you today? " She said, " I want to go home...I hate this place " !!!!!!! WOW!!!! When I was very little, I stumbled into a fight between my mother and my father. I'd come down from bed to go to the bathroom and found them yelling at each other. My mother was saying, " I wish I'd never had any kids. " It wasn't until I was in my late 30's that I finally recalled it. I often remembered being in the hallway with them, and them fighting, but I could never recall what they had been fighting about. I only knew, that kept coming to me. Then I learned about meditation, and I had started attempting to meditate. Within a week, I woke up one morning remembering everything! As a child, hearing this, I had said to myself, " If I'd never been born, they would be happy. " I realized that I went through life feeling responsible for their unhappiness and...also that I was unworthy of love. As an adult, I can now understand that my mother felt 'trapped', and I can look back at my life and see how I have 'replayed' her life in my own. I have been married to men that have reflected my feelings of 'shame'. I was married to not one, but three alcoholics! Why didn't I learn? Because I didn't understand the power of my thoughts. I was raped, not once, but twice, and it left me feeling 'powerless'. Alcoholics all have one thing in common...they are ashamed of something, and they try to escape through the drug. I didn't drink, but I suffered from feelings of 'shame', so we mirrored each other! We all do, in one way or another! I felt, at a very deep level, that I deserved punishment, even tho' I wasn't consciously aware of it! In a spiritual sense, I raped myself with my critical thoughts of myself long before I was raped! I know now, that my physical pain began in my emotional pain. Thoughts come first, then the experience...not the other way around!!! When you realize this, it can't help but change your life. You realize that you are responsible for your own happiness, and it starts with your thoughts! How do you talk to yourself? Are gentle with yourself and loving, or are you critical? I've learned that when I'm loving, I attract loving people to me, and when I'm being critical, I run into all sorts of nasty people! The days I'm doing good, I only run into nice, loving people! I use to say, " He/She is a pain in the butt. " I try not to say that anymore, because I got hemmaroids! tehe! I've learned that I command my body to do the things it's done. That when my knees are hurting terribly, I've been feeling as if I can't carry myself. When my arms hurt, I've been feeling as though I've been carrying too heavy a load for other people, etc. I also have become aware of how many times I say, " He's a pain in the neck " . I've commanded my body to give me a pain in the neck! I haven't had as much neck pain, since I became aware of this..and I have a spur in my neck!!! I've also tried to look at pain from a positive level. What has it brought into my life, that I never would have experienced without it? Meeting you, and the other people on this site, for one. Being able to encourage, share, show compassion, and all the things that 'love' stands for! Pain is the best 'motivator' there is! I feel blessed to have all of you to interact with. I was feeling very lonely, and you have helped to show me that I'm never alone...only if I choose to be! As for 'LOL'...I use it in the context of LOVE. Love is the only thing that is real, and it's what I feel for all of you. My pain, emotional and physical, has forced me to learn who and what I truly am. It has also shown me what 'love' really is. I'm still learning, and there's so much more that I've already learned that could never be conveyed in one e-mail, and when I share with you and others, it helps me to 'remember' what I need to 'remember', and it helps me to truly 'understand' what I've learned. I go through each day just like everyone else...falling and getting back up again! But I'm gaining the tools to do the job. I see medication as a 'bandaide'. It helps, but it's not the cure. The illness, whether I want to except it or not, at some level, began in me, otherwise, I feel, my immune system would have handled it. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and that's fine, but you have to agree, it's food for thought. I'm learning how important it is to be responsible for myself at a very deep level, without kicking myself. I don't always want to do this! Sometimes it seems like a real effort! 'up until now'...I say this to help cancel any negativity as soon as I catch it! I was told to say this every time I had a negative thought, and promised that within one year my life would change, and I can truly say that it has...for my friends, too! We're always saying it, and we laugh!!! Well, I've gone on too long, and I hope that you are having a very nice day! You take care! LOL Sue --- faydra913@... wrote: > In a message dated 5/24/01 10:29:02 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > abraxis3@... writes: > > > > Feed yourself with > > positive thoughts like, I'm having a great > day..even > > when it is lousy, and watch how the next day will > be > > better...it works! > > Take care, LOL > > Sue > > > > Sue, > What beautiful advice you have. Let me know on > our little group what you > do or have done for a living. You seem like you > were in the therapy > business. Absolute BEAUTIFUL advice. Does LOL also > stand for lot's of love > and laugh out loud? How do you know the > difference? > Kathy D. > Diagnosed in 98 > Live in Western Massachusetts > Married for almost 19yrs, to a sweetheart > Mother to 16 and 14 > My Rottie dog Shelby > Spooky the cat > Hobbies: Boating, Learning this computer > Arts & Crafts, and a passionate reader > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2001 Report Share Posted May 26, 2001 abraxis3@... Dear Kathy, I tried to answer you last night, but I kept losing my message before I could get it sent!!! I was really getting upset, cause the computer kept disconnecting me and I lost everything I typed! I finally gave up and went to bed! So, I'm finally attempting this again! I never took psychological courses or worked at counseling anyone...I simply have my own life experiences and my understanding from my search into spirituality to draw from. I know what has helped me, and I like to share that with others. I know how much I have suffered, not only physically, but emotionally over the years...in fact, all of my life,...'up until now'! My life has been full of many losses and traumatic events. I've undergone therapy, shock treatments, more therapy, medications and I finally found relief in spirituality. I've learned how my thoughts and beliefs have manifested my experiences, both by experimentation and retrospection. I've also learned that I have thoughts that aren't my own! I'll try to explain that with an example: One day I was upset and I said to myself, " Nobody loves me..nobody cares about me " . I can't count the times in my life that I have thought those same thoughts, but never before had I ever questioned 'where' they came from! I then remembered that my mother use to say it all the time, everytime she got upset...which was a lot! So, as a child, I copied her, and have carried those thoughts with me all of my life! Never questioning them, but truly believing them. I've pushed people away, and I didn't have to do anything...they just stayed away...so I've discovered that we truly are connected consciously. When I started to tell myself that I was worthy of love and loveable, I noticed them coming back, and I also had others coming into my life, all of a sudden! How many other things I think and believe didn't originate in my mind by my choice?!!! Another way that I can have other people's thoughts may be hard to accept unless you have experienced it yourself, but one day I was at work, and my co-worker was sitting close to me. My day had started just fine. I was happy. I was working and listening to my music and humming, when all of sudden I started to think things like, I want to go home...I hate this place. " I loved my job!!! I stopped what I was doing and said to myself, " Where did that come from? " I looked over at my co-worker and noticed she didn't look happy. I said, " Well, Jackie, how are you today? " She said, " I want to go home...I hate this place " !!!!!!! WOW!!!! When I was very little, I stumbled into a fight between my mother and my father. I'd come down from bed to go to the bathroom and found them yelling at each other. My mother was saying, " I wish I'd never had any kids. " It wasn't until I was in my late 30's that I finally recalled it. I often remembered being in the hallway with them, and them fighting, but I could never recall what they had been fighting about. I only knew, that kept coming to me. Then I learned about meditation, and I had started attempting to meditate. Within a week, I woke up one morning remembering everything! As a child, hearing this, I had said to myself, " If I'd never been born, they would be happy. " I realized that I went through life feeling responsible for their unhappiness and...also that I was unworthy of love. As an adult, I can now understand that my mother felt 'trapped', and I can look back at my life and see how I have 'replayed' her life in my own. I have been married to men that have reflected my feelings of 'shame'. I was married to not one, but three alcoholics! Why didn't I learn? Because I didn't understand the power of my thoughts. I was raped, not once, but twice, and it left me feeling 'powerless'. Alcoholics all have one thing in common...they are ashamed of something, and they try to escape through the drug. I didn't drink, but I suffered from feelings of 'shame', so we mirrored each other! We all do, in one way or another! I felt, at a very deep level, that I deserved punishment, even tho' I wasn't consciously aware of it! In a spiritual sense, I raped myself with my critical thoughts of myself long before I was raped! I know now, that my physical pain began in my emotional pain. Thoughts come first, then the experience...not the other way around!!! When you realize this, it can't help but change your life. You realize that you are responsible for your own happiness, and it starts with your thoughts! How do you talk to yourself? Are gentle with yourself and loving, or are you critical? I've learned that when I'm loving, I attract loving people to me, and when I'm being critical, I run into all sorts of nasty people! The days I'm doing good, I only run into nice, loving people! I use to say, " He/She is a pain in the butt. " I try not to say that anymore, because I got hemmaroids! tehe! I've learned that I command my body to do the things it's done. That when my knees are hurting terribly, I've been feeling as if I can't carry myself. When my arms hurt, I've been feeling as though I've been carrying too heavy a load for other people, etc. I also have become aware of how many times I say, " He's a pain in the neck " . I've commanded my body to give me a pain in the neck! I haven't had as much neck pain, since I became aware of this..and I have a spur in my neck!!! I've also tried to look at pain from a positive level. What has it brought into my life, that I never would have experienced without it? Meeting you, and the other people on this site, for one. Being able to encourage, share, show compassion, and all the things that 'love' stands for! Pain is the best 'motivator' there is! I feel blessed to have all of you to interact with. I was feeling very lonely, and you have helped to show me that I'm never alone...only if I choose to be! As for 'LOL'...I use it in the context of LOVE. Love is the only thing that is real, and it's what I feel for all of you. My pain, emotional and physical, has forced me to learn who and what I truly am. It has also shown me what 'love' really is. I'm still learning, and there's so much more that I've already learned that could never be conveyed in one e-mail, and when I share with you and others, it helps me to 'remember' what I need to 'remember', and it helps me to truly 'understand' what I've learned. I go through each day just like everyone else...falling and getting back up again! But I'm gaining the tools to do the job. I see medication as a 'bandaide'. It helps, but it's not the cure. The illness, whether I want to except it or not, at some level, began in me, otherwise, I feel, my immune system would have handled it. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and that's fine, but you have to agree, it's food for thought. I'm learning how important it is to be responsible for myself at a very deep level, without kicking myself. I don't always want to do this! Sometimes it seems like a real effort! 'up until now'...I say this to help cancel any negativity as soon as I catch it! I was told to say this every time I had a negative thought, and promised that within one year my life would change, and I can truly say that it has...for my friends, too! We're always saying it, and we laugh!!! Well, I've gone on too long, and I hope that you are having a very nice day! You take care! LOL Sue --- faydra913@... wrote: > In a message dated 5/24/01 10:29:02 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > abraxis3@... writes: > > > > Feed yourself with > > positive thoughts like, I'm having a great > day..even > > when it is lousy, and watch how the next day will > be > > better...it works! > > Take care, LOL > > Sue > > > > Sue, > What beautiful advice you have. Let me know on > our little group what you > do or have done for a living. You seem like you > were in the therapy > business. Absolute BEAUTIFUL advice. Does LOL also > stand for lot's of love > and laugh out loud? How do you know the > difference? > Kathy D. > Diagnosed in 98 > Live in Western Massachusetts > Married for almost 19yrs, to a sweetheart > Mother to 16 and 14 > My Rottie dog Shelby > Spooky the cat > Hobbies: Boating, Learning this computer > Arts & Crafts, and a passionate reader > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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