Re: Re: reponse to need some advice

[Guest guest]

In " The Disease Concept of Alcoholism " Jellinek describes where he got his

theory. The whole thing was based on questionnaires filled out by AA

members. As I recall, he got about 100 responses, all anonymous. Jellinek

explains in the book that under most circumstances his procedure would not

exactly be considered the most scientific way to go about gathering data,

but this was a special case because AA members always tell the truth!

Of course the reality is that this ain't even Fringe Science -- you need a

special category for guys like Jellinek, and I consider him an outstanding

exemplar of Joke Science. (And btw there's solid evidence that Jellinek

faked his academic credentials.)

Anyone who's hung out with the Fellowship for any length of time knows how

AA members tend to distort and twist the facts of their drinking history to

make it fit the AA model. Imagine what a fine job they would do if they knew

that their recollections would be treated as " data " !

--wally

----- Original Message -----

> So this is where Jellinek and his senseless " curve " came from. Such

> interesting information. Thanks. Piper.

> In a message dated 1/31/01 9:54:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> wagt@... writes:

>

> << I think the answer to your question would really be 'none of the above'

> meaning that right from the beginning there was a collaborative effort

among

> AAers, medical people, and other groups to start a treatment movement.

> Kurtz's 'Not-God' says the announcement of the 'Yale Plan for Alcohol

> Studies', the 'Yale Plan Clinics for the Treatment of Alcoholism' and the

> 'National Council for Education on Alcoholism' in January 1944 was made

by a

> group including Marty Mann, E. M. Jellinek, Dr. W. Haggard

(medical

> authority on alcoholism) and Dr. Selden D. Bacon (sociologist.) This

'Yale

> Group' seems to be the primal source. >>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In " The Disease Concept of Alcoholism " Jellinek describes where he got his

theory. The whole thing was based on questionnaires filled out by AA

members. As I recall, he got about 100 responses, all anonymous. Jellinek

explains in the book that under most circumstances his procedure would not

exactly be considered the most scientific way to go about gathering data,

but this was a special case because AA members always tell the truth!

Of course the reality is that this ain't even Fringe Science -- you need a

special category for guys like Jellinek, and I consider him an outstanding

exemplar of Joke Science. (And btw there's solid evidence that Jellinek

faked his academic credentials.)

Anyone who's hung out with the Fellowship for any length of time knows how

AA members tend to distort and twist the facts of their drinking history to

make it fit the AA model. Imagine what a fine job they would do if they knew

that their recollections would be treated as " data " !

--wally

----- Original Message -----

> So this is where Jellinek and his senseless " curve " came from. Such

> interesting information. Thanks. Piper.

> In a message dated 1/31/01 9:54:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> wagt@... writes:

>

> << I think the answer to your question would really be 'none of the above'

> meaning that right from the beginning there was a collaborative effort

among

> AAers, medical people, and other groups to start a treatment movement.

> Kurtz's 'Not-God' says the announcement of the 'Yale Plan for Alcohol

> Studies', the 'Yale Plan Clinics for the Treatment of Alcoholism' and the

> 'National Council for Education on Alcoholism' in January 1944 was made

by a

> group including Marty Mann, E. M. Jellinek, Dr. W. Haggard

(medical

> authority on alcoholism) and Dr. Selden D. Bacon (sociologist.) This

'Yale

> Group' seems to be the primal source. >>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In " The Disease Concept of Alcoholism " Jellinek describes where he got his

theory. The whole thing was based on questionnaires filled out by AA

members. As I recall, he got about 100 responses, all anonymous. Jellinek

explains in the book that under most circumstances his procedure would not

exactly be considered the most scientific way to go about gathering data,

but this was a special case because AA members always tell the truth!

Of course the reality is that this ain't even Fringe Science -- you need a

special category for guys like Jellinek, and I consider him an outstanding

exemplar of Joke Science. (And btw there's solid evidence that Jellinek

faked his academic credentials.)

Anyone who's hung out with the Fellowship for any length of time knows how

AA members tend to distort and twist the facts of their drinking history to

make it fit the AA model. Imagine what a fine job they would do if they knew

that their recollections would be treated as " data " !

--wally

----- Original Message -----

> So this is where Jellinek and his senseless " curve " came from. Such

> interesting information. Thanks. Piper.

> In a message dated 1/31/01 9:54:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> wagt@... writes:

>

> << I think the answer to your question would really be 'none of the above'

> meaning that right from the beginning there was a collaborative effort

among

> AAers, medical people, and other groups to start a treatment movement.

> Kurtz's 'Not-God' says the announcement of the 'Yale Plan for Alcohol

> Studies', the 'Yale Plan Clinics for the Treatment of Alcoholism' and the

> 'National Council for Education on Alcoholism' in January 1944 was made

by a

> group including Marty Mann, E. M. Jellinek, Dr. W. Haggard

(medical

> authority on alcoholism) and Dr. Selden D. Bacon (sociologist.) This

'Yale

> Group' seems to be the primal source. >>

>

>

>

>