Re: Professional ethics and the 12 steps

[Guest guest]

basically they are given a license to carry the message of gods

will, a nd of course being an aa member and having seen so

many miracle of the program, they (they being almost any

12-step member ) know whats best for us, even if we dont.

afterall, we're insane remember?

[Guest guest]

basically they are given a license to carry the message of gods

will, a nd of course being an aa member and having seen so

many miracle of the program, they (they being almost any

12-step member ) know whats best for us, even if we dont.

afterall, we're insane remember?

[Guest guest]

Hi Dan

Don't think I've seen you here before - welcome.

This stuff is terrible. This should go into the next edition of

's 12 step horror stories!

I guess you cant really tell us more about this becasue you dont want

to risk being sued and wish to protect the innocent parties. However,

I cant help but want to be able to quote them as more than hearsay.

Even odder about all this is that steppers make such a big deal about

their " moral program " and often do a bit of group self-flagellation

like " We are cheats. We are liars... " etc. One guy who does this a

lot is guy on add_med, on an addiction medicine list. I've been

tempted to fwd some of his stuff and in fact have done a few dribs,

but I'm a little concerned abt my own ethicality in doing this without

his ability to reply, so I've held back a bit. Besides, he comes out

with so much amazing stuff I'd be fwding a continuous stream! Just

recently my paranoia has wondered whether he might be lurking here, as

after I commented that often " Thanks for your response " on a list is

code for " Shut up and let me have the last word " he thanked me for my

responses on add_med, something I've never seen him do before.

Another interesting thing is that he fwded a " How do I get off this

list? " post from another subscriber without comment. The fact that he

got it implies that the enquirer made a mistake and meant it to go to

the list, but even so its odd that he didnt just fwd it to the

listowner and that he also made no comment like " This went to me in

error " . When I or anyone else challenges step orthodoxy there it

usually produces a rash of ppl leaving, which is perhaps what he was

hinting at. I know Stanton Peele and other folks have been turfed off

that list, my turn will probably be coming soon.

Something he came out with recently was that RDowney Jr should be

forced to do 12-step work with a sponsor - because " he's too good a

con man " for a speaker circuit. The thing that really staggers me

about this is how out of keeping it is with AA's own supposed

traditions. Voluntary, cant give away what you cant have, anonymity,

non-controversial, no outside issues, yadayadayada.

The guy is a former addictions counsellor and I'm sure he is no longer

because he's some kind of loonytoon. However, his beliefs I am sure

are very common among XA, lay and professional.

P.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dan

Don't think I've seen you here before - welcome.

This stuff is terrible. This should go into the next edition of

's 12 step horror stories!

I guess you cant really tell us more about this becasue you dont want

to risk being sued and wish to protect the innocent parties. However,

I cant help but want to be able to quote them as more than hearsay.

Even odder about all this is that steppers make such a big deal about

their " moral program " and often do a bit of group self-flagellation

like " We are cheats. We are liars... " etc. One guy who does this a

lot is guy on add_med, on an addiction medicine list. I've been

tempted to fwd some of his stuff and in fact have done a few dribs,

but I'm a little concerned abt my own ethicality in doing this without

his ability to reply, so I've held back a bit. Besides, he comes out

with so much amazing stuff I'd be fwding a continuous stream! Just

recently my paranoia has wondered whether he might be lurking here, as

after I commented that often " Thanks for your response " on a list is

code for " Shut up and let me have the last word " he thanked me for my

responses on add_med, something I've never seen him do before.

Another interesting thing is that he fwded a " How do I get off this

list? " post from another subscriber without comment. The fact that he

got it implies that the enquirer made a mistake and meant it to go to

the list, but even so its odd that he didnt just fwd it to the

listowner and that he also made no comment like " This went to me in

error " . When I or anyone else challenges step orthodoxy there it

usually produces a rash of ppl leaving, which is perhaps what he was

hinting at. I know Stanton Peele and other folks have been turfed off

that list, my turn will probably be coming soon.

Something he came out with recently was that RDowney Jr should be

forced to do 12-step work with a sponsor - because " he's too good a

con man " for a speaker circuit. The thing that really staggers me

about this is how out of keeping it is with AA's own supposed

traditions. Voluntary, cant give away what you cant have, anonymity,

non-controversial, no outside issues, yadayadayada.

The guy is a former addictions counsellor and I'm sure he is no longer

because he's some kind of loonytoon. However, his beliefs I am sure

are very common among XA, lay and professional.

P.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dan

Don't think I've seen you here before - welcome.

This stuff is terrible. This should go into the next edition of

's 12 step horror stories!

I guess you cant really tell us more about this becasue you dont want

to risk being sued and wish to protect the innocent parties. However,

I cant help but want to be able to quote them as more than hearsay.

Even odder about all this is that steppers make such a big deal about

their " moral program " and often do a bit of group self-flagellation

like " We are cheats. We are liars... " etc. One guy who does this a

lot is guy on add_med, on an addiction medicine list. I've been

tempted to fwd some of his stuff and in fact have done a few dribs,

but I'm a little concerned abt my own ethicality in doing this without

his ability to reply, so I've held back a bit. Besides, he comes out

with so much amazing stuff I'd be fwding a continuous stream! Just

recently my paranoia has wondered whether he might be lurking here, as

after I commented that often " Thanks for your response " on a list is

code for " Shut up and let me have the last word " he thanked me for my

responses on add_med, something I've never seen him do before.

Another interesting thing is that he fwded a " How do I get off this

list? " post from another subscriber without comment. The fact that he

got it implies that the enquirer made a mistake and meant it to go to

the list, but even so its odd that he didnt just fwd it to the

listowner and that he also made no comment like " This went to me in

error " . When I or anyone else challenges step orthodoxy there it

usually produces a rash of ppl leaving, which is perhaps what he was

hinting at. I know Stanton Peele and other folks have been turfed off

that list, my turn will probably be coming soon.

Something he came out with recently was that RDowney Jr should be

forced to do 12-step work with a sponsor - because " he's too good a

con man " for a speaker circuit. The thing that really staggers me

about this is how out of keeping it is with AA's own supposed

traditions. Voluntary, cant give away what you cant have, anonymity,

non-controversial, no outside issues, yadayadayada.

The guy is a former addictions counsellor and I'm sure he is no longer

because he's some kind of loonytoon. However, his beliefs I am sure

are very common among XA, lay and professional.

P.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/12/01 2:18:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, dansb@...

writes:

<< You hear a lot of people in the program talk about being miracles and shit.

There's a mindset that because they defied the odds, that maybe the rules

that bind the rest of us don't apply. When they become therapists, you've

got that train of thought and then add on a really big ego, which all of the

pro's seem to have. So now you have this prick with a huge ego who can't

stand it when his clients don't do what he wants them to do, and he goes

apeshit. "

>>

Many so-called therapists are stupid. They aren't thinkers. That is

abysmal.

I honestly don't know how to account for the behaviors above or sleeping with

clients etc. except stupidity along a great number of dimensions. Sigh.

Piper.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/12/01 2:18:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, dansb@...

writes:

<< You hear a lot of people in the program talk about being miracles and shit.

There's a mindset that because they defied the odds, that maybe the rules

that bind the rest of us don't apply. When they become therapists, you've

got that train of thought and then add on a really big ego, which all of the

pro's seem to have. So now you have this prick with a huge ego who can't

stand it when his clients don't do what he wants them to do, and he goes

apeshit. "

>>

Many so-called therapists are stupid. They aren't thinkers. That is

abysmal.

I honestly don't know how to account for the behaviors above or sleeping with

clients etc. except stupidity along a great number of dimensions. Sigh.

Piper.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/12/01 2:18:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, dansb@...

writes:

<< You hear a lot of people in the program talk about being miracles and shit.

There's a mindset that because they defied the odds, that maybe the rules

that bind the rest of us don't apply. When they become therapists, you've

got that train of thought and then add on a really big ego, which all of the

pro's seem to have. So now you have this prick with a huge ego who can't

stand it when his clients don't do what he wants them to do, and he goes

apeshit. "

>>

Many so-called therapists are stupid. They aren't thinkers. That is

abysmal.

I honestly don't know how to account for the behaviors above or sleeping with

clients etc. except stupidity along a great number of dimensions. Sigh.

Piper.