Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 >From: jennifer_201@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: In need of help >Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:42:22 -0000 > >Hello, >My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 >years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and >I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some >things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel >good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but >of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just >not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions >on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont >think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im >afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if >anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons >father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have >shared things I deeply regret. Please help. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 >From: jennifer_201@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: In need of help >Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:42:22 -0000 > >Hello, >My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 >years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and >I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some >things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel >good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but >of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just >not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions >on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont >think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im >afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if >anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons >father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have >shared things I deeply regret. Please help. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 Hi The main thing to do if you are worried about staying sober is just DONT DRINK. It's that simple. As well as making this firm commitment, after that just make sure you keep yourself nice and busy and away from temptation and that might be all that you need. You could look into alternative forms of help - even taken Antabuse if you think it would help you avoid drinking. You'll probably find the only alternatives are web-based - you could try SMART and Rational Recovery - Moderation Management will accept seeking abstinence as well as controlled drinking. You can find these with a search on the web. You presumably can only be coerced back to AA by the authorities if you commit an alcohol related crime. Even if you drink there is no reason why you should do this. NEVER drink and drive for example. You are not powerless over your life or your drinking, and you need not suffer harmful consequences, even if they have happened before. Good luck and let us know of you get on. Pete > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and > I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some > things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel > good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but > of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just > not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions > on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont > think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im > afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if > anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons > father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have > shared things I deeply regret. Please help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 Hi The main thing to do if you are worried about staying sober is just DONT DRINK. It's that simple. As well as making this firm commitment, after that just make sure you keep yourself nice and busy and away from temptation and that might be all that you need. You could look into alternative forms of help - even taken Antabuse if you think it would help you avoid drinking. You'll probably find the only alternatives are web-based - you could try SMART and Rational Recovery - Moderation Management will accept seeking abstinence as well as controlled drinking. You can find these with a search on the web. You presumably can only be coerced back to AA by the authorities if you commit an alcohol related crime. Even if you drink there is no reason why you should do this. NEVER drink and drive for example. You are not powerless over your life or your drinking, and you need not suffer harmful consequences, even if they have happened before. Good luck and let us know of you get on. Pete > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and > I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some > things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel > good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but > of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just > not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions > on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont > think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im > afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if > anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons > father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have > shared things I deeply regret. Please help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 - The URL of Rational Recovery is www.rational.org. Email Jack Trimpey; from what I've heard and experienced, he's very good at returning email. He returned one of mine the same day. Regarding AA: The most important thing to remember about AA is not that it's much less effective than it claims. (Although that is very true.) The most important thing to remember is that AA works for those who want to be in AA. In your case, the fact that AA didn't "click" with you has absolutely nothing to do with your future prospects. AA sabotages the sobriety of people who don't like AA, leading them to believe they're a relapse machine if they don't get with the AA way. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 - The URL of Rational Recovery is www.rational.org. Email Jack Trimpey; from what I've heard and experienced, he's very good at returning email. He returned one of mine the same day. Regarding AA: The most important thing to remember about AA is not that it's much less effective than it claims. (Although that is very true.) The most important thing to remember is that AA works for those who want to be in AA. In your case, the fact that AA didn't "click" with you has absolutely nothing to do with your future prospects. AA sabotages the sobriety of people who don't like AA, leading them to believe they're a relapse machine if they don't get with the AA way. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 With the help of a sympathetic medical practitioner, you might also investigate the possibilities for treatment with anti-craving drugs such as naltrexone or acamprosate (if available). These might provide a useful supplement to whatever OTHER SUPPORT you choose and again just might give you the abstinence time to get the ball rolling... Best Wishes, Mack > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and > I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some > things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel > good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but > of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just > not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions > on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont > think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im > afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if > anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons > father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have > shared things I deeply regret. Please help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 With the help of a sympathetic medical practitioner, you might also investigate the possibilities for treatment with anti-craving drugs such as naltrexone or acamprosate (if available). These might provide a useful supplement to whatever OTHER SUPPORT you choose and again just might give you the abstinence time to get the ball rolling... Best Wishes, Mack > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and > I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some > things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel > good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but > of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just > not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions > on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont > think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im > afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if > anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons > father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have > shared things I deeply regret. Please help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 Hi . I'm glad you're here at 12 step free, because this list has been very helpful for me in undoing the damage done by AA. As for things you've already done, I find it helps me to try and remember why I made the choices I did. For instance, I can tell from this post that you are afraid, worried, feeling like you don't know what to do but you have to do something. I think, when you're afraid, it's very healthy to talk about it. Almost impossible NOT to talk about it! Also, many people find themselves in AA without really choosing to be there and, once there, AA can expand and take over, choking out all your other relationships. Anyway, you were probably afraid in the past, and AA was your main source of support. So you talked about your concerns with people in AA. From your perspective now, it maybe seems like a bad choice; but at the time you did it, it probably made a lot of sense. Here's what I think. You are perfectly capable of 1) dealing with the consequences of your past actions, 2) learning from your mistakes, and 3) going on to make better choices based on what you've learned. The hard part for me in overcoming 12 step garbage has been trusting myself, which makes sense, because AA is all about not trusting yourself and trusting the group. But I have to trust myself, because there is only one person I can count on to take care of me 24/7/365, and that's me. Choosing 12 step free over AA is a step in the direction of life for me. Best of luck, , and welcome to 12 step free. btw, there are a couple of other s here ( from England and Java Jen) so you may want to find something to identify yourself. I hope you stick around. judith > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and > I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some > things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel > good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but > of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just > not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions > on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont > think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im > afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if > anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons > father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have > shared things I deeply regret. Please help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 Hi . I'm glad you're here at 12 step free, because this list has been very helpful for me in undoing the damage done by AA. As for things you've already done, I find it helps me to try and remember why I made the choices I did. For instance, I can tell from this post that you are afraid, worried, feeling like you don't know what to do but you have to do something. I think, when you're afraid, it's very healthy to talk about it. Almost impossible NOT to talk about it! Also, many people find themselves in AA without really choosing to be there and, once there, AA can expand and take over, choking out all your other relationships. Anyway, you were probably afraid in the past, and AA was your main source of support. So you talked about your concerns with people in AA. From your perspective now, it maybe seems like a bad choice; but at the time you did it, it probably made a lot of sense. Here's what I think. You are perfectly capable of 1) dealing with the consequences of your past actions, 2) learning from your mistakes, and 3) going on to make better choices based on what you've learned. The hard part for me in overcoming 12 step garbage has been trusting myself, which makes sense, because AA is all about not trusting yourself and trusting the group. But I have to trust myself, because there is only one person I can count on to take care of me 24/7/365, and that's me. Choosing 12 step free over AA is a step in the direction of life for me. Best of luck, , and welcome to 12 step free. btw, there are a couple of other s here ( from England and Java Jen) so you may want to find something to identify yourself. I hope you stick around. judith > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and > I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some > things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel > good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but > of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just > not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions > on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont > think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im > afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if > anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons > father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have > shared things I deeply regret. Please help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 jennifer, you can stay sober! my advise is to do it for yourself, thik of as an act of self love and respect. since i stopped drinking, i tried to alwsy do whats best for me and my well being. noit drinking isnt an act of surrentder of my will power, my just opposit, its acknowledgement my will is not hurt my self or others. there are other groups you can investigate, but depending where you are, you may or may not find a meeting for one. some dont even rely on meetings at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 -- When I decided to flee the 12 steps, I stumbled upon a book thru the AADeprogramming.com site. Lots of info I'm sure will help you. I'm now reading " the 16 steps " by Charlotte Kasl, which is written in the same " step " format, but is based on finding your own power and making changes, rather than giving it all up to The Group. There is also a very active 16 step group on egroups. Write me privately if you'd like more info. My two cents, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 -- When I decided to flee the 12 steps, I stumbled upon a book thru the AADeprogramming.com site. Lots of info I'm sure will help you. I'm now reading " the 16 steps " by Charlotte Kasl, which is written in the same " step " format, but is based on finding your own power and making changes, rather than giving it all up to The Group. There is also a very active 16 step group on egroups. Write me privately if you'd like more info. My two cents, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 Thursday, January 18, 2001, 8:42:22 AM, you wrote: > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and > I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some > things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel > good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but > of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just > not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions > on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont > think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im > afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if > anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons > father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have > shared things I deeply regret. Please help. Hi - as has been pointed out, one of the most important things to do is to grasp that AA's predictions of alcoholic disaster for people who do not do what AA suggests are self-serving. They serve to keep members fearful of what they might do, so they remain good Aa members. But these predictions do not relate to reality. AA as a recovery method is about as successful as doing nothing and just stopping drinking- in fact it is probably less effective, because of all the negative programming it gives people. Drinking is not a disease, it is a behaviour, and like any other habit you can stop doing it. You might find various things helpful, such as professional help (NOT the " AA counsellor " type!), or one of the modern approaches to addiction recovery. AA is certainly not the only program out there. One approach you might find helpful is SMART Recovery. It is based in cognitive-behavioural methods and is the " scientific " approach to self-help. It is pretty much the opposite of AA. There is a web site, a Message Board with a lot of traffic, online meetings, and an email list. All available here; www.smartrecovery.org and there is a link to several other modern recovery programs you might like to take a look at. http://www.smartrecovery.org/substanc.htm One link that is conspicuously missing is Rational Recovery, I seem to recall Jack Trimpey asked to have all links to his site removed! AA would probably describe him as an example of " self-will run riot " . But it's a good site. It is here; www.rational.org Hope you find something you like. And if you don't, you can still stay sober. Joe B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2001 Report Share Posted January 18, 2001 Thursday, January 18, 2001, 8:42:22 AM, you wrote: > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and > I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some > things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel > good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but > of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just > not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions > on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont > think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im > afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if > anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons > father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have > shared things I deeply regret. Please help. Hi - as has been pointed out, one of the most important things to do is to grasp that AA's predictions of alcoholic disaster for people who do not do what AA suggests are self-serving. They serve to keep members fearful of what they might do, so they remain good Aa members. But these predictions do not relate to reality. AA as a recovery method is about as successful as doing nothing and just stopping drinking- in fact it is probably less effective, because of all the negative programming it gives people. Drinking is not a disease, it is a behaviour, and like any other habit you can stop doing it. You might find various things helpful, such as professional help (NOT the " AA counsellor " type!), or one of the modern approaches to addiction recovery. AA is certainly not the only program out there. One approach you might find helpful is SMART Recovery. It is based in cognitive-behavioural methods and is the " scientific " approach to self-help. It is pretty much the opposite of AA. There is a web site, a Message Board with a lot of traffic, online meetings, and an email list. All available here; www.smartrecovery.org and there is a link to several other modern recovery programs you might like to take a look at. http://www.smartrecovery.org/substanc.htm One link that is conspicuously missing is Rational Recovery, I seem to recall Jack Trimpey asked to have all links to his site removed! AA would probably describe him as an example of " self-will run riot " . But it's a good site. It is here; www.rational.org Hope you find something you like. And if you don't, you can still stay sober. Joe B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2001 Report Share Posted January 19, 2001 > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have shared things I deeply regret. Please help. , I also have an extensive history of relapse going back to about 1981. I had a great deal of intellectual pride. I had many fears (mostly fear of people and social situations) and lacked the willingness to confront them with the necessary force. I was holding out hope that God would solve my problems without me having to put a whole lot of work into it. The repeated beatings administered by my alcoholic drinking eventually made me humble enough and willing enough to put the effort into sobriety that was necessary to begin to have a new experience in AA and life. This time around I decided to take ALL the basic suggestion and, more importantly, stick with them. I have been alcohol and drug free for a little more than 2.5 years by applying the principles I learned in AA to my life. There are several differences between this time around in AA and past times but the most important has been a concerted effort to put the 12th Step into my life. I see that I must do battle with my self-centeredness or I will return to alcohol. If you find you can remain sober without spiritual help, that's great. I believe that ANY time somebody reachs out to another person for help, that is a spiritual act. As you probably know, an athiest or agnostic CAN stay sober in AA. I am sorry if you have been given a different impression. Many members of AA do not have a clear knowledge of the program as described in the book " Alcoholics Anoymous " . Whatever happens, if you don't take the first drink, you can't get drunk. I wish you well on your journey. Jack P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2001 Report Share Posted January 19, 2001 > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have shared things I deeply regret. Please help. , I also have an extensive history of relapse going back to about 1981. I had a great deal of intellectual pride. I had many fears (mostly fear of people and social situations) and lacked the willingness to confront them with the necessary force. I was holding out hope that God would solve my problems without me having to put a whole lot of work into it. The repeated beatings administered by my alcoholic drinking eventually made me humble enough and willing enough to put the effort into sobriety that was necessary to begin to have a new experience in AA and life. This time around I decided to take ALL the basic suggestion and, more importantly, stick with them. I have been alcohol and drug free for a little more than 2.5 years by applying the principles I learned in AA to my life. There are several differences between this time around in AA and past times but the most important has been a concerted effort to put the 12th Step into my life. I see that I must do battle with my self-centeredness or I will return to alcohol. If you find you can remain sober without spiritual help, that's great. I believe that ANY time somebody reachs out to another person for help, that is a spiritual act. As you probably know, an athiest or agnostic CAN stay sober in AA. I am sorry if you have been given a different impression. Many members of AA do not have a clear knowledge of the program as described in the book " Alcoholics Anoymous " . Whatever happens, if you don't take the first drink, you can't get drunk. I wish you well on your journey. Jack P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2001 Report Share Posted January 19, 2001 > Hello, > My name is and I have been in and out of AA for about 6 > years. At this point I'm very afraid. I cant seem to stay sober and I knoe I need to obviously. I told a girl I know in the program some things that happened the last time I drank. I defidently dont feel good about some of the things I did. I know AA wont work for me but of course they all say ( I know almost everyone here in AA) Im just not willing. Anyway first of all do any of you have any suggestions on what I can do to stay sober and also Im so scared because I dont think I can trust this person with what I told, what do I do. Im afraid the law will make me do AA again and I know it wont help if anything it will only hurt me. I have a huge past in AA, my sons father is in it and I know a lot of the people in there that i have shared things I deeply regret. Please help. , I also have an extensive history of relapse going back to about 1981. I had a great deal of intellectual pride. I had many fears (mostly fear of people and social situations) and lacked the willingness to confront them with the necessary force. I was holding out hope that God would solve my problems without me having to put a whole lot of work into it. The repeated beatings administered by my alcoholic drinking eventually made me humble enough and willing enough to put the effort into sobriety that was necessary to begin to have a new experience in AA and life. This time around I decided to take ALL the basic suggestion and, more importantly, stick with them. I have been alcohol and drug free for a little more than 2.5 years by applying the principles I learned in AA to my life. There are several differences between this time around in AA and past times but the most important has been a concerted effort to put the 12th Step into my life. I see that I must do battle with my self-centeredness or I will return to alcohol. If you find you can remain sober without spiritual help, that's great. I believe that ANY time somebody reachs out to another person for help, that is a spiritual act. As you probably know, an athiest or agnostic CAN stay sober in AA. I am sorry if you have been given a different impression. Many members of AA do not have a clear knowledge of the program as described in the book " Alcoholics Anoymous " . Whatever happens, if you don't take the first drink, you can't get drunk. I wish you well on your journey. Jack P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2001 Report Share Posted January 19, 2001 > In a message dated 1/19/01 6:39:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, > jnpfaff@e... writes: > > << I had a great deal of intellectual pride. >> > > Jack, evidently not enough. AA not only does not work, it is pathological. > The people on this list understand that. When someone, posts a message for > help and someone such as yourself comes back with this kind of toxic > response, it makes me VERY unhappy. The information and caring on this list > that is communicated by people here, is most encouraging in that it fosters a > sense of belief in one's own committments, power and clarity of needs and > goals re: using substances, or not. > > I do not believe in censorship, but I can certainly be dismayed by pride in > ignorance. Intellectual pride is something you have yet to become acquainted > with. > > Piper Hi Piper, What is pathological about AA? Why so angry? Jack P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2001 Report Share Posted January 19, 2001 > In a message dated 1/19/01 6:39:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, > jnpfaff@e... writes: > > << I had a great deal of intellectual pride. >> > > Jack, evidently not enough. AA not only does not work, it is pathological. > The people on this list understand that. When someone, posts a message for > help and someone such as yourself comes back with this kind of toxic > response, it makes me VERY unhappy. The information and caring on this list > that is communicated by people here, is most encouraging in that it fosters a > sense of belief in one's own committments, power and clarity of needs and > goals re: using substances, or not. > > I do not believe in censorship, but I can certainly be dismayed by pride in > ignorance. Intellectual pride is something you have yet to become acquainted > with. > > Piper Hi Piper, What is pathological about AA? Why so angry? Jack P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2001 Report Share Posted January 19, 2001 > In a message dated 1/19/01 6:39:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, > jnpfaff@e... writes: > > << I had a great deal of intellectual pride. >> > > Jack, evidently not enough. AA not only does not work, it is pathological. > The people on this list understand that. When someone, posts a message for > help and someone such as yourself comes back with this kind of toxic > response, it makes me VERY unhappy. The information and caring on this list > that is communicated by people here, is most encouraging in that it fosters a > sense of belief in one's own committments, power and clarity of needs and > goals re: using substances, or not. > > I do not believe in censorship, but I can certainly be dismayed by pride in > ignorance. Intellectual pride is something you have yet to become acquainted > with. > > Piper Hi Piper, What is pathological about AA? Why so angry? Jack P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2001 Report Share Posted January 19, 2001 > Is Jack P. a spy or just an idiot ? Hiya Sparky! Nobody is JUST anything. Have I ever behaved like an idiot? Yes, many times, mainly when I was drunk. But thanks to AA and God, I hardly ever act like an idiot! Peace Brother, Jack P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2001 Report Share Posted January 19, 2001 > Is Jack P. a spy or just an idiot ? Hiya Sparky! Nobody is JUST anything. Have I ever behaved like an idiot? Yes, many times, mainly when I was drunk. But thanks to AA and God, I hardly ever act like an idiot! Peace Brother, Jack P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2001 Report Share Posted January 19, 2001 > Is Jack P. a spy or just an idiot ? Hiya Sparky! Nobody is JUST anything. Have I ever behaved like an idiot? Yes, many times, mainly when I was drunk. But thanks to AA and God, I hardly ever act like an idiot! Peace Brother, Jack P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2001 Report Share Posted January 19, 2001 i dont know, just what your doing now. he wrote a intelligent, well reasoned response, which just happens to be critical of aa. i dont see anger in this, but in aa to be critical of program will be met with response of " why rae you angry? " as if only unreasoned anger, a defect in their character, is only way someone could have anything negative to say about AA. usually it is suggested as a sign they aren't working a good enough Program. Bill himself set this example himself. AApes follow it to a T. maybe a slogan will be tacked on for good measure, " sit down shut up and learn something stupid " , or " your best thinking got you here " , you know, just to remind them they shouldn't think for themselves and to diffuse any critical or rational thinking. but while we are on anger, why not be angry at a anti intellectual religious cult, which lies to and verbally abuses new recruits when they are the most vulnerable point of their lives, suppresses critical and rational thought all i order in inject their god control belief system? a group who the teachings of a life long chronically depressive and disturbed man who while detoxing and tripping belladonna, had a " god " experience, and was introduced to a god control cult the following day, and who spiritual " awakening was so shallow felt the need to use LSD to recreate his " spiritual experience " . why not be angry with a group which holds as it leader, and its main text the attacks upon agnostics and atheists for their lack of belief and in same breathe asks not to be prejudiced against people who believe in god. why ot be angry at group which offers death threats for those who leave or ignore the cults teachings? i could go on, but there is no point. your in wrong place. Bill Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles in March, 1943 " There is a definite religious element here " " unless each AA member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps of recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant . . . We must obey certain principles or we die. " , W.] (1957). Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, New York: Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., page 119 " To one who feels he is an atheist or agnostic such an experience seems impossible, but to continue as he is means disaster, especially if he is an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face. " We AgnosticsBig book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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