Re: This one takes the cake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

January 12, 2001

> I feel like calling her and telling her exactly how I feel.

Please, don't do that.

You mentioned that she was (or was formerly) a licensed therapist. She was

quite aware that what she was doing was in gross violation of universally

accepted standards of ethics and, that if your therapist was ethical, he

would mention this conversation to you.

Her plan -- from my view of this situation -- was to rattle your cage a

little bit with a passive-aggressive questioning of your newly-discovered

values. If so, there's no way in hell that I would give this woman a call --

she's probably loaded herself up with 12-step propaganda, and lord knows

what other permissions she might grant herself to " help " you if you called

back.

Or, perhaps she's just a vindictive person without those ulterior motives.

In that case, I wouldn't give her the pleasure of knowing that her call

upset you so.

You've already proved that you're the better person for coming to your own

conclusions about 12-step programs. Now's your chance to prove that you're

the better person, period. :-)

Regards,

Dan

January 12, 2001

> I feel like calling her and telling her exactly how I feel.

Please, don't do that.

You mentioned that she was (or was formerly) a licensed therapist. She was

quite aware that what she was doing was in gross violation of universally

accepted standards of ethics and, that if your therapist was ethical, he

would mention this conversation to you.

Her plan -- from my view of this situation -- was to rattle your cage a

little bit with a passive-aggressive questioning of your newly-discovered

values. If so, there's no way in hell that I would give this woman a call --

she's probably loaded herself up with 12-step propaganda, and lord knows

what other permissions she might grant herself to " help " you if you called

back.

Or, perhaps she's just a vindictive person without those ulterior motives.

In that case, I wouldn't give her the pleasure of knowing that her call

upset you so.

You've already proved that you're the better person for coming to your own

conclusions about 12-step programs. Now's your chance to prove that you're

the better person, period. :-)

Regards,

Dan

January 12, 2001

> I feel like calling her and telling her exactly how I feel.

Please, don't do that.

You mentioned that she was (or was formerly) a licensed therapist. She was

quite aware that what she was doing was in gross violation of universally

accepted standards of ethics and, that if your therapist was ethical, he

would mention this conversation to you.

Her plan -- from my view of this situation -- was to rattle your cage a

little bit with a passive-aggressive questioning of your newly-discovered

values. If so, there's no way in hell that I would give this woman a call --

she's probably loaded herself up with 12-step propaganda, and lord knows

what other permissions she might grant herself to " help " you if you called

back.

Or, perhaps she's just a vindictive person without those ulterior motives.

In that case, I wouldn't give her the pleasure of knowing that her call

upset you so.

You've already proved that you're the better person for coming to your own

conclusions about 12-step programs. Now's your chance to prove that you're

the better person, period. :-)

Regards,

Dan

January 12, 2001

i dont know what your health concerns are right now, but it

sounds to me you have enough on your plate to think about than

this person. hope you are well.

January 12, 2001

I think you should change your email address.

Good to have you here.

Nate

January 12, 2001

LOL you are one evil bastard Dave! I love it. :0)

> Re: This one takes the

>cake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

>naww, people in aa dont try to convince people who leave to stay

>or that by leaving they will drink. never heard of that before.

>

>to those blow hards, post the " parable of a sponsor " and ask if

>you made that up too! LOL!

>

>> Jeanne, that does indeed take the cake. I posted a copy of your

>other

>> message on the Delphi forum and it has actually gotten fairly

>> sympathetic responses even from some AA people. Lots of

>'em

>> saying, " Yeah, I can't stand those Nazis either. " Although a

>couple

>> of the blowhards accused me of making it up.

>

January 12, 2001

LOL you are one evil bastard Dave! I love it. :0)

> Re: This one takes the

>cake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

>naww, people in aa dont try to convince people who leave to stay

>or that by leaving they will drink. never heard of that before.

>

>to those blow hards, post the " parable of a sponsor " and ask if

>you made that up too! LOL!

>

>> Jeanne, that does indeed take the cake. I posted a copy of your

>other

>> message on the Delphi forum and it has actually gotten fairly

>> sympathetic responses even from some AA people. Lots of

>'em

>> saying, " Yeah, I can't stand those Nazis either. " Although a

>couple

>> of the blowhards accused me of making it up.

>

January 12, 2001

LOL you are one evil bastard Dave! I love it. :0)

> Re: This one takes the

>cake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

>naww, people in aa dont try to convince people who leave to stay

>or that by leaving they will drink. never heard of that before.

>

>to those blow hards, post the " parable of a sponsor " and ask if

>you made that up too! LOL!

>

>> Jeanne, that does indeed take the cake. I posted a copy of your

>other

>> message on the Delphi forum and it has actually gotten fairly

>> sympathetic responses even from some AA people. Lots of

>'em

>> saying, " Yeah, I can't stand those Nazis either. " Although a

>couple

>> of the blowhards accused me of making it up.

>

January 12, 2001

Yes is appalling but not surprising...a friend who has been in XA for several

years,

had a gf in " the program " and her sponser told her that she and the guy

shouldn't

HAVE SEX for a while, it was getting in the way of her PROGRAM! I am so glad

that I could only stomach a handful of meetings over the years. I'm also very

glad

to have found this mailing group (new here). - Sam

January 12, 2001

Yes is appalling but not surprising...a friend who has been in XA for several

years,

had a gf in " the program " and her sponser told her that she and the guy

shouldn't

HAVE SEX for a while, it was getting in the way of her PROGRAM! I am so glad

that I could only stomach a handful of meetings over the years. I'm also very

glad

to have found this mailing group (new here). - Sam

January 12, 2001

Yes is appalling but not surprising...a friend who has been in XA for several

years,

had a gf in " the program " and her sponser told her that she and the guy

shouldn't

HAVE SEX for a while, it was getting in the way of her PROGRAM! I am so glad

that I could only stomach a handful of meetings over the years. I'm also very

glad

to have found this mailing group (new here). - Sam

January 13, 2001

hi sam,

hey if your geting this as email you can go to

/group/12-step-free and modify your

subscription to view messeages thru your web browser, and not

be flooded with mail

I'm also very

> glad

> to have found this mailing group (new here). - Sam

January 13, 2001

hi sam,

hey if your geting this as email you can go to

/group/12-step-free and modify your

subscription to view messeages thru your web browser, and not

be flooded with mail

I'm also very

> glad

> to have found this mailing group (new here). - Sam

January 14, 2001

I dont know, but I sure feel violated about the whole deal and it just blew my mind the lenghts some of these people in AA go to in order to keep their control.

I thought AA stood for ANONYMOUS! That sponsor had NO right to call anyone about you. If I were you I would go to the next meeting that you knew she would be at and when it comes time for you to "share", I would tell the whole meeting what she had done and then walk out

Sue A

January 14, 2001

I dont know, but I sure feel violated about the whole deal and it just blew my mind the lenghts some of these people in AA go to in order to keep their control.

I thought AA stood for ANONYMOUS! That sponsor had NO right to call anyone about you. If I were you I would go to the next meeting that you knew she would be at and when it comes time for you to "share", I would tell the whole meeting what she had done and then walk out

Sue A

January 14, 2001

i ONLY WISH i COULD CHOOSE TO WALK OUT AS YOU CAN. WHAT DOESN'T FEEL SUPPORTIVE

IS WORTHLESS AS A SUPPORT GROUP AND MOST ARE WORTHLESS. iF IT MAKES YOU

QUESTION MORE ABOUT YOURSELF AND THOSE AROUND YOU THAN IT DOES NOT PROM (OPPS

I'LL UNCAPITALIZE-DIDN'T LOOK THERE!) promote your health and safety. I am

beleagured at work and have to decide to take it or to go on welfare. The

needling means I get a pay cheque. I am conflicted. I make a difference in

people's lives and the mission to provide real choice in recovery options but I

am frightenened. In reality, in logic I understand that I am in no worse shape

if I am on welfare than than if the presecution continues. And I think I could

take that part of it though I would be swarming mad for longer than I already

am. Ahhhh, the headaches, a whopper one this week had me bed and in throws. The

headaches of dealing with mean-spirited, narrow minded bosses (or sponsors), the

heartaches, misery and even the condolescences don't reall!

y shake the problem off. It sits like pudding in a field. (???) Out of place.

And being a victim is not an appealing role. It doesn't even look good on me. It

looks silly. I guess that's where the loss of dignity comes in. Ahhh....., It

takes courage to stand up ..., and when you have made yourself as small as I do

there isn't much more dissolved you can be without moving onto the floor of my

cubicle where it feels more comfortable. It takes too much courage, great

courage to come out from under that clock of submission and take a reprecussions

which are more wood for the fire. I am right that demeaning behaviors from the

boss hold back the service to the public. That life will go better for me if I

stand up is no guarantee. That's the courage part again. I don't know if I can

stand the heat. The other part is that by lying low I can surrepticiously get

the message out to the people of BC that new methods of quitting can help them

and that they need not join any 12 step gro!

up or spin off group. People are surprised to hear this. It isn't easy to

quickly introduce the concept and hurry off the phones. To lower my voice when I

tell them the difference between disease and volitional models and that both

service orientations are available upon request at the Alcohol and Drug

Services. I feel like I'm selling beer to elementary school students (no, I

never did that). Still, I am hearing and seeing a shift of public perception

which through my 5 years of choice promotion has occurred. Others are in the

field promoting options too but I am strategically placed to do some service.

So, they hate me. They can't fire me. There are lies in my review, which SHE

won't discuss with me, yelled at me when I gave her my respectful submission. I

am livid but this will pass. I have union contact witb a pretty laid back person

the likes of whom I doubt will headbut with management. I want my file nonsense

deleted and the management to get a good, god damn shake. Lik!

e I said I am livid.

I'll go take a pill and a walk.

See you,

Keep on exposing the oppressions.

Carol

12-step-freeegroups wrote:

>

> In a message dated 1/12/01 10:13:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> Jst42dayjl@... writes:

>

> > I dont know, but I sure feel violated about the whole deal and it just blew

> > my mind the lenghts some of these people in AA go to in order to keep their

> > control.

> >

>

> I thought AA stood for ANONYMOUS! That sponsor had NO right to call anyone

> about you. If I were you I would go to the next meeting that you knew she

> would be at and when it comes time for you to " share " , I would tell the whole

> meeting what she had done and then walk out

>

> Sue A

>

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January 14, 2001