Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I think that if they were competent at the time they signed the DNR then that is what counts. One of the lawyers on here can answer this for you. B. , AAS, LP Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine EMS Educator Baylor EMS Medical Control 1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10 Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300 Office Direct Line Fax Cell Pager DNR I need a legal opinion (factual information will work too). If a person signs a DNR while they are competent and able to make reasonable and informed decisions about their healthcare, can a family member or POA revoke or rescind that DNR later in the person's life when they are deemed to be incompetent or unable to decide for themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I think that if they were competent at the time they signed the DNR then that is what counts. One of the lawyers on here can answer this for you. B. , AAS, LP Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine EMS Educator Baylor EMS Medical Control 1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10 Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300 Office Direct Line Fax Cell Pager DNR I need a legal opinion (factual information will work too). If a person signs a DNR while they are competent and able to make reasonable and informed decisions about their healthcare, can a family member or POA revoke or rescind that DNR later in the person's life when they are deemed to be incompetent or unable to decide for themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I think that if they were competent at the time they signed the DNR then that is what counts. One of the lawyers on here can answer this for you. B. , AAS, LP Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine EMS Educator Baylor EMS Medical Control 1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10 Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300 Office Direct Line Fax Cell Pager DNR I need a legal opinion (factual information will work too). If a person signs a DNR while they are competent and able to make reasonable and informed decisions about their healthcare, can a family member or POA revoke or rescind that DNR later in the person's life when they are deemed to be incompetent or unable to decide for themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 You know, I never thought of it that way. The SNU situation is very applicable here. I do feel, however, that if someone does not want to go to the SNU, they could go to the SUP. _____ From: Hatfield Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:32 PM To: Subject: RE: DNR Again, I refer back to those who wear the alligator shoes, but it would seem to me, that once a person is incapable of making decision, then he who holds the POA, makes the decisions. No different than someone who 'swears' they will never go into a SNU; at a point that they cannot make decisions rationally, if the POA wants them in a SNU, then to the SNU they will go. Alligators? Mike 'Tater Salad' Hatfield EMT-P " Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes. " EMStock 2005, it's never to early to plan!!! www.emstock.com www.temsf.org DNR I need a legal opinion (factual information will work too). If a person signs a DNR while they are competent and able to make reasonable and informed decisions about their healthcare, can a family member or POA revoke or rescind that DNR later in the person's life when they are deemed to be incompetent or unable to decide for themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 You know, I never thought of it that way. The SNU situation is very applicable here. I do feel, however, that if someone does not want to go to the SNU, they could go to the SUP. _____ From: Hatfield Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:32 PM To: Subject: RE: DNR Again, I refer back to those who wear the alligator shoes, but it would seem to me, that once a person is incapable of making decision, then he who holds the POA, makes the decisions. No different than someone who 'swears' they will never go into a SNU; at a point that they cannot make decisions rationally, if the POA wants them in a SNU, then to the SNU they will go. Alligators? Mike 'Tater Salad' Hatfield EMT-P " Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes. " EMStock 2005, it's never to early to plan!!! www.emstock.com www.temsf.org DNR I need a legal opinion (factual information will work too). If a person signs a DNR while they are competent and able to make reasonable and informed decisions about their healthcare, can a family member or POA revoke or rescind that DNR later in the person's life when they are deemed to be incompetent or unable to decide for themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 You know, I never thought of it that way. The SNU situation is very applicable here. I do feel, however, that if someone does not want to go to the SNU, they could go to the SUP. _____ From: Hatfield Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:32 PM To: Subject: RE: DNR Again, I refer back to those who wear the alligator shoes, but it would seem to me, that once a person is incapable of making decision, then he who holds the POA, makes the decisions. No different than someone who 'swears' they will never go into a SNU; at a point that they cannot make decisions rationally, if the POA wants them in a SNU, then to the SNU they will go. Alligators? Mike 'Tater Salad' Hatfield EMT-P " Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes. " EMStock 2005, it's never to early to plan!!! www.emstock.com www.temsf.org DNR I need a legal opinion (factual information will work too). If a person signs a DNR while they are competent and able to make reasonable and informed decisions about their healthcare, can a family member or POA revoke or rescind that DNR later in the person's life when they are deemed to be incompetent or unable to decide for themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Again, I refer back to those who wear the alligator shoes, but it would seem to me, that once a person is incapable of making decision, then he who holds the POA, makes the decisions. No different than someone who 'swears' they will never go into a SNU; at a point that they cannot make decisions rationally, if the POA wants them in a SNU, then to the SNU they will go. Alligators? Mike 'Tater Salad' Hatfield EMT-P " Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes. " EMStock 2005, it's never to early to plan!!! www.emstock.com www.temsf.org DNR I need a legal opinion (factual information will work too). If a person signs a DNR while they are competent and able to make reasonable and informed decisions about their healthcare, can a family member or POA revoke or rescind that DNR later in the person's life when they are deemed to be incompetent or unable to decide for themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Again, I refer back to those who wear the alligator shoes, but it would seem to me, that once a person is incapable of making decision, then he who holds the POA, makes the decisions. No different than someone who 'swears' they will never go into a SNU; at a point that they cannot make decisions rationally, if the POA wants them in a SNU, then to the SNU they will go. Alligators? Mike 'Tater Salad' Hatfield EMT-P " Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes. " EMStock 2005, it's never to early to plan!!! www.emstock.com www.temsf.org DNR I need a legal opinion (factual information will work too). If a person signs a DNR while they are competent and able to make reasonable and informed decisions about their healthcare, can a family member or POA revoke or rescind that DNR later in the person's life when they are deemed to be incompetent or unable to decide for themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Again, I refer back to those who wear the alligator shoes, but it would seem to me, that once a person is incapable of making decision, then he who holds the POA, makes the decisions. No different than someone who 'swears' they will never go into a SNU; at a point that they cannot make decisions rationally, if the POA wants them in a SNU, then to the SNU they will go. Alligators? Mike 'Tater Salad' Hatfield EMT-P " Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes. " EMStock 2005, it's never to early to plan!!! www.emstock.com www.temsf.org DNR I need a legal opinion (factual information will work too). If a person signs a DNR while they are competent and able to make reasonable and informed decisions about their healthcare, can a family member or POA revoke or rescind that DNR later in the person's life when they are deemed to be incompetent or unable to decide for themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I cannot answer the DNR question because I lack alligator shoes. I lack ALL shoes except for an old pair of New Balance runners. I do have a couple of pairs of ostrich boots, some elephants, and lots of sharkskins and calf and maybe a kangaroo pair or two. But alligator shoes, no. Sorry. GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I cannot answer the DNR question because I lack alligator shoes. I lack ALL shoes except for an old pair of New Balance runners. I do have a couple of pairs of ostrich boots, some elephants, and lots of sharkskins and calf and maybe a kangaroo pair or two. But alligator shoes, no. Sorry. GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I cannot answer the DNR question because I lack alligator shoes. I lack ALL shoes except for an old pair of New Balance runners. I do have a couple of pairs of ostrich boots, some elephants, and lots of sharkskins and calf and maybe a kangaroo pair or two. But alligator shoes, no. Sorry. GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Maybe not, but I bet you have a Sears polyester suit still hanging in your closet, that equates to the same thing.... For the record, the 'guys with alligator shoes' are not always the bad guys, if there has to be a pair around, I want them in my closet..... Mike 'Tater Salad' Hatfield EMT-P " Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes. " EMStock 2005, it's never to early to plan!!! www.emstock.com www.temsf.org From: wegandy1938@... I cannot answer the DNR question because I lack alligator shoes. I lack ALL shoes except for an old pair of New Balance runners. I do have a couple of pairs of ostrich boots, some elephants, and lots of sharkskins and calf and maybe a kangaroo pair or two. But alligator shoes, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 I'd refer you to Texas Health & Safety Code, 166.049. -Wes In a message dated 6/20/2005 7:44:42 PM Central Daylight Time, michael.simmons14@... writes: Question for the group> Had a student ask in class if you had a full term female who has a DNR, do you or do you not honer the DNR if birth is imminent. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 I'd refer you to Texas Health & Safety Code, 166.049. -Wes In a message dated 6/20/2005 7:44:42 PM Central Daylight Time, michael.simmons14@... writes: Question for the group> Had a student ask in class if you had a full term female who has a DNR, do you or do you not honer the DNR if birth is imminent. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 I'd refer you to Texas Health & Safety Code, 166.049. -Wes In a message dated 6/20/2005 7:44:42 PM Central Daylight Time, michael.simmons14@... writes: Question for the group> Had a student ask in class if you had a full term female who has a DNR, do you or do you not honer the DNR if birth is imminent. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 In a message dated 6/20/2005 7:51:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ExLngHrn@... writes: I'd refer you to Texas Health & Safety Code, 166.049. Wes, come on can't you post the except? Also Since Rinard was employed with Then TDH and more over worked directly on this legislation I'd differ to his post. ly I hope I'm never on the crew that needs to make that call period but I would like to think I'd " do the right ting " whatever it was at the moment to me that is, not a pleasant thought. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (IFW Office) (Cell Phone) (IFW Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 In a message dated 6/20/2005 7:51:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ExLngHrn@... writes: I'd refer you to Texas Health & Safety Code, 166.049. Wes, come on can't you post the except? Also Since Rinard was employed with Then TDH and more over worked directly on this legislation I'd differ to his post. ly I hope I'm never on the crew that needs to make that call period but I would like to think I'd " do the right ting " whatever it was at the moment to me that is, not a pleasant thought. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (IFW Office) (Cell Phone) (IFW Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 In a message dated 6/20/2005 7:51:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ExLngHrn@... writes: I'd refer you to Texas Health & Safety Code, 166.049. Wes, come on can't you post the except? Also Since Rinard was employed with Then TDH and more over worked directly on this legislation I'd differ to his post. ly I hope I'm never on the crew that needs to make that call period but I would like to think I'd " do the right ting " whatever it was at the moment to me that is, not a pleasant thought. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (IFW Office) (Cell Phone) (IFW Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Texas DNR paperwork specifically states that a DNR is invalid if the patient is pregnant. The form states: " Automatic Revocation: This Out-of-Hospital DNR order is automatically revoked if the patient is known to be pregnant or in the case of unnatural or suspicious circumstances. " D. Stone > Question for the group> > > Had a student ask in class if you had a full term female who has a DNR, do you or do you not honer the DNR if birth is imminent. > > Mike > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Texas DNR paperwork specifically states that a DNR is invalid if the patient is pregnant. The form states: " Automatic Revocation: This Out-of-Hospital DNR order is automatically revoked if the patient is known to be pregnant or in the case of unnatural or suspicious circumstances. " D. Stone > Question for the group> > > Had a student ask in class if you had a full term female who has a DNR, do you or do you not honer the DNR if birth is imminent. > > Mike > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 michael.simmons14@... wrote: > Had a student ask in class if you had a full term female who has > a DNR, do you or do you not honer the DNR if birth is imminent. I've got to ask if you are the instructor or another student? Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 michael.simmons14@... wrote: > Had a student ask in class if you had a full term female who has > a DNR, do you or do you not honer the DNR if birth is imminent. I've got to ask if you are the instructor or another student? Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 michael.simmons14@... wrote: > Had a student ask in class if you had a full term female who has > a DNR, do you or do you not honer the DNR if birth is imminent. I've got to ask if you are the instructor or another student? Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Based on original legislation, a physician should not everissue a DNR to a pregnant woman, and should she become pregant during course of a terminal disease....well there are many side thoughts about that but bottom line is the DNR should be revoked. Also the final component of the DNR process, as originally designed was that is any question ever existed then medical control should be contacted for further direction, that coupled with the fact that each agency is supposed to have a protocol for addressing DNR's and there should be no question. Rinard ESTI WMD EMS Program Supervisor (office) (NEW CELL NUMBER) (fax) john.rinard@... >>> michael.simmons14@... 06/20/05 7:43 PM >>> Question for the group> Had a student ask in class if you had a full term female who has a DNR, do you or do you not honer the DNR if birth is imminent. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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