Re: Hostility at meetings ?

[Guest guest]

> ps Gorilla attendance at meetings can be quite rewarding if one is

properly

> prepared. I have directed many inquiring newcomers to alternative

recovery

> resources. Besides, it drives the old-timers crazy when I introduce

myself as a

> " recovered addict "

Wonderful post, and I like this approach -- especially the part about saying

" recovered addict " -- I'll have to try it. Some of the gurus I know might

keel over from having to refrain from commenting until their turn comes

around (unless the old blowhards stand up and interrupt their meeting, as is

their Ghod-Given Right As Church Elders^W^WOld Timers).

Until a few days ago, I really had no problem with the 12-steppers, but

after a few years away from the cult I ran into my former sponsor last week,

and the smug prick just pushed me over the edge. That's when I started

perusing those fine AA deprogramming/counter opinion sites, which eventually

led me to this list.

I know a few people in my area that are alcohol-drug free that have similar

disdain for the pious 12-steppers. I'm going to point them in the direction

of this list. I'm also wondering how many of them would be up for a bit of

meeting attendance... I'm wondering what kind of havoc 12 people could wreak

on the " group conscience " concept.

Dan

[Guest guest]

Of course many also indulge in the ever popular attacks on thinking of any kind: "I've never met anyone to stupid to get this program, but I've met people to smart" ......(cut)

"Wouldn't comments of this sort drive away smart people who really wanted help? A person is as smart and as educated as they are when they walk through the door. It's not as if they can erase that Logic 101 class from their mind. This is like saying, "I've never met anyone too short to get the program, but I've met people too tall."

Some even suggest that I not come to meetings because I am hurting the addict who still suffers by carrying a false message.

"If I sat down to design the perfect program, the first thing I would do would be to give proper weight to the thoughts of those who beat their problem, a Darwinian mechanism where the message that gets the job done wins out over the message that fails. What actually works would take precedence over what people want to work."

Nate

[Guest guest]

Until a few days ago, I really had no problem with the 12-steppers, butafter a few years away from the cult I ran into my former sponsor last week,and the smug prick just pushed me over the edge.

What happened?

I know a few people in my area that are alcohol-drug free that have similardisdain for the pious 12-steppers. I'm going to point them in the directionof this list. I'm also wondering how many of them would be up for a bit ofmeeting attendance...

The best way to mess with them, if that's what you want, is to live a happy life. If you run into them on the street and they ask you how you're doing, tell them "Never been better. I think I made the right choice."

Nate

[Guest guest]

--- In 12-step-freeegroups, " Nate s " <njacobs@c...>

tell them " Never been better. I think I made the right choice. "

dont say " think " , afterall we know how they feel about thinkng.

best to say " I made the right choice. "

[Guest guest]

Nate wrote:

" What happened? "

Oh, maybe I read too much into it. I was at the local supermarket, and I ran

into him in the produce section. We talked for a bit, and he asked if I was

still going to meetings. I said no, that while I had some respect for the 12

step program, I found that continued participation and attendance at

meetings hadn't done much for my continued personal growth.

He said something that included " well, that sounds like you don't have the

attitude of gratitude. " and that I should " keep coming back because Duh

Program works. " I just smiled and told him I needed to get my shopping

done, but that pop psych comment had me fuming. I'm just so sick of that

holier-than-thou attitude that I still get, four or five years after my last

meeting, because I didn't get better in their approved manner.

(The program works so well for him that he tried to kill himself with carbon

monoxide poisoning about a year ago. He sealed up his garage, started the

car, rolled down the windows, and waited for It to happen. Alas, the car was

running on fumes.)

Honestly, I don't seek out these people -- in a town of 4,000, however, it's

hard not to run into these people over and over again. When I do, I don't

try to shove my way of living down their throat (even our local fundie

religious population doesn't do that!), but whenever one of these 12-step

participators crosses my path, I have to hear about Duh Program and the

wonders awaiting me if I'll just open my eyes and see how much harm I'm

doing to myself.

" The best way to mess with them, if that's what you want, is to live a happy

life. If you run into them on the street and they ask you how you're doing,

tell them " Never been better. I think I made the right choice. " "

Thank you. That is indeed a better way than what I wrote in the heat of the

moment. :-)

Dan

[Guest guest]

Nate wrote:

" What happened? "

Oh, maybe I read too much into it. I was at the local supermarket, and I ran

into him in the produce section. We talked for a bit, and he asked if I was

still going to meetings. I said no, that while I had some respect for the 12

step program, I found that continued participation and attendance at

meetings hadn't done much for my continued personal growth.

He said something that included " well, that sounds like you don't have the

attitude of gratitude. " and that I should " keep coming back because Duh

Program works. " I just smiled and told him I needed to get my shopping

done, but that pop psych comment had me fuming. I'm just so sick of that

holier-than-thou attitude that I still get, four or five years after my last

meeting, because I didn't get better in their approved manner.

(The program works so well for him that he tried to kill himself with carbon

monoxide poisoning about a year ago. He sealed up his garage, started the

car, rolled down the windows, and waited for It to happen. Alas, the car was

running on fumes.)

Honestly, I don't seek out these people -- in a town of 4,000, however, it's

hard not to run into these people over and over again. When I do, I don't

try to shove my way of living down their throat (even our local fundie

religious population doesn't do that!), but whenever one of these 12-step

participators crosses my path, I have to hear about Duh Program and the

wonders awaiting me if I'll just open my eyes and see how much harm I'm

doing to myself.

" The best way to mess with them, if that's what you want, is to live a happy

life. If you run into them on the street and they ask you how you're doing,

tell them " Never been better. I think I made the right choice. " "

Thank you. That is indeed a better way than what I wrote in the heat of the

moment. :-)

Dan

[Guest guest]

"What happened?"Oh, maybe I read too much into it. I was at the local supermarket, and I raninto him in the produce section. We talked for a bit, and he asked if I wasstill going to meetings. I said no, that while I had some respect for the 12step program, I found that continued participation and attendance atmeetings hadn't done much for my continued personal growth.He said something that included "well, that sounds like you don't have theattitude of gratitude." and that I should "keep coming back because DuhProgram works." I just smiled and told him I needed to get my shoppingdone, but that pop psych comment had me fuming.

Dan-

I don't think you read too much into it at all. Some time ago I read Iron by Bly. He predicts in the natural development of every man a time, an actual instance he can later point to, when he will take his life out his mother's world and make it his own. (In the Iron story the boy took the key from under his mother's pillow to open the cage holding the hairy man, Iron himself.) The operative word here is take. He must stop being mommy's little boy. He cannot ask for it, he cannot give her a hug and request it. He must take it. In this instance the dynamic changes. It stops being little boy/mommy and becomes man/mother. I believe Bly predicts all men will remember this moment. I know I do.

It hasn't been that long for me since I left AA and I also wonder about running into people. You'll all be happy to hear that I took the key from my mother some years ago but the AA disciple in me has not yet made the same definitive statement towards AA. I'm not claiming this as a failure, just reporting that at this stage it hasn't happened.

Perhaps something of this sort was at work during your run-in with your former sponsor. It's the disciple/master dynamic (quite strong) that needed to be broken and, quite understandably, strong emotions will be swirling around.

Nate

[Guest guest]

"What happened?"Oh, maybe I read too much into it. I was at the local supermarket, and I raninto him in the produce section. We talked for a bit, and he asked if I wasstill going to meetings. I said no, that while I had some respect for the 12step program, I found that continued participation and attendance atmeetings hadn't done much for my continued personal growth.He said something that included "well, that sounds like you don't have theattitude of gratitude." and that I should "keep coming back because DuhProgram works." I just smiled and told him I needed to get my shoppingdone, but that pop psych comment had me fuming.

Dan-

I don't think you read too much into it at all. Some time ago I read Iron by Bly. He predicts in the natural development of every man a time, an actual instance he can later point to, when he will take his life out his mother's world and make it his own. (In the Iron story the boy took the key from under his mother's pillow to open the cage holding the hairy man, Iron himself.) The operative word here is take. He must stop being mommy's little boy. He cannot ask for it, he cannot give her a hug and request it. He must take it. In this instance the dynamic changes. It stops being little boy/mommy and becomes man/mother. I believe Bly predicts all men will remember this moment. I know I do.

It hasn't been that long for me since I left AA and I also wonder about running into people. You'll all be happy to hear that I took the key from my mother some years ago but the AA disciple in me has not yet made the same definitive statement towards AA. I'm not claiming this as a failure, just reporting that at this stage it hasn't happened.

Perhaps something of this sort was at work during your run-in with your former sponsor. It's the disciple/master dynamic (quite strong) that needed to be broken and, quite understandably, strong emotions will be swirling around.

Nate