Re: Suffolk Co. Incident (was: About Recovery - Training t...

[Guest guest]

--- In 12-step-freeegroups, <malgeo@m...>

> I have also heard it suggested that a woman (or man, I guess)

ask

> the officer to follow her to a well-lit public area before

interacting

> with him. In theory the cop should accede, although in practice

> you'd probably be guaranteeing yourself a ticket or arrest.

>

>

maybe from the cop, in this day and age, it would be tossed out

by the court, or at least you would hope

[Guest guest]

Somethinh that interests me is whether any of these women have

suffered sexual abuse or domestic violence previously. One thing that

ppl often dont realize is that abused ppl often co-operate with

abusers to amazing extents out of sheer terror. Unfortunately I can

be one of them, and I'm very, very glad I'm a large male and less

likely to be sexually assaulted than other ppl, such as women.

This level of co-operation seems crazy to those who dont understand it

and even looks like collaberation in the abuse, which produces more

shit for the victim in the response it gets from others. It isnt

collaboration, it is simply the effect of sheer helplessness.

When a child is abused compliance is a meatter of sheer survival and

it can sometimes have the same protective effect for an adult. I

aremember seeing a film about a serial killer who abducted a teen

girl and drive around with her for days before finally releasing her.

She made no attempt to escape, even agreeing to go with him in to a

restaurant - as well as fearing he would shoot her, he told her he

would shoot other ppl if she escaped while out of his sight. He even

got her to drive a car with him tailing; she told her that as a

former racing driver there was no way she could get away from him,

which was probably true as he had been a racing driver, but many

would have tried anyway. He eventually did release her and she

survived, unlike the other girl who he killed while holding her

captive.

The reason she survived becasue this guy's bag was to have the girl

beg for mercy before killing her. She had already been raped

previously, and had learned that pleas for mercy were useless or

counter-productive, and instead remained passive. Since he didnt get

his fix he let her live and she survived. So the apparently " crazy "

compliance of a victim may actually be lifesaving.

P.

[Guest guest]

Somethinh that interests me is whether any of these women have

suffered sexual abuse or domestic violence previously. One thing that

ppl often dont realize is that abused ppl often co-operate with

abusers to amazing extents out of sheer terror. Unfortunately I can

be one of them, and I'm very, very glad I'm a large male and less

likely to be sexually assaulted than other ppl, such as women.

This level of co-operation seems crazy to those who dont understand it

and even looks like collaberation in the abuse, which produces more

shit for the victim in the response it gets from others. It isnt

collaboration, it is simply the effect of sheer helplessness.

When a child is abused compliance is a meatter of sheer survival and

it can sometimes have the same protective effect for an adult. I

aremember seeing a film about a serial killer who abducted a teen

girl and drive around with her for days before finally releasing her.

She made no attempt to escape, even agreeing to go with him in to a

restaurant - as well as fearing he would shoot her, he told her he

would shoot other ppl if she escaped while out of his sight. He even

got her to drive a car with him tailing; she told her that as a

former racing driver there was no way she could get away from him,

which was probably true as he had been a racing driver, but many

would have tried anyway. He eventually did release her and she

survived, unlike the other girl who he killed while holding her

captive.

The reason she survived becasue this guy's bag was to have the girl

beg for mercy before killing her. She had already been raped

previously, and had learned that pleas for mercy were useless or

counter-productive, and instead remained passive. Since he didnt get

his fix he let her live and she survived. So the apparently " crazy "

compliance of a victim may actually be lifesaving.

P.

[Guest guest]

Somethinh that interests me is whether any of these women have

suffered sexual abuse or domestic violence previously. One thing that

ppl often dont realize is that abused ppl often co-operate with

abusers to amazing extents out of sheer terror. Unfortunately I can

be one of them, and I'm very, very glad I'm a large male and less

likely to be sexually assaulted than other ppl, such as women.

This level of co-operation seems crazy to those who dont understand it

and even looks like collaberation in the abuse, which produces more

shit for the victim in the response it gets from others. It isnt

collaboration, it is simply the effect of sheer helplessness.

When a child is abused compliance is a meatter of sheer survival and

it can sometimes have the same protective effect for an adult. I

aremember seeing a film about a serial killer who abducted a teen

girl and drive around with her for days before finally releasing her.

She made no attempt to escape, even agreeing to go with him in to a

restaurant - as well as fearing he would shoot her, he told her he

would shoot other ppl if she escaped while out of his sight. He even

got her to drive a car with him tailing; she told her that as a

former racing driver there was no way she could get away from him,

which was probably true as he had been a racing driver, but many

would have tried anyway. He eventually did release her and she

survived, unlike the other girl who he killed while holding her

captive.

The reason she survived becasue this guy's bag was to have the girl

beg for mercy before killing her. She had already been raped

previously, and had learned that pleas for mercy were useless or

counter-productive, and instead remained passive. Since he didnt get

his fix he let her live and she survived. So the apparently " crazy "

compliance of a victim may actually be lifesaving.

P.

[Guest guest]

I hope he ... gets sued for several million dollars and loses.

This last bit I dont agree with. Two of these woman are claiming $15M

each. The others probably are too. The guy deserves metaphorically

getting his ass nailed criminally, but who is going to pay this

figure? Taxpayers of course. What these women went through is

dreadful and they desewrve compensation, but not this much. This is

Rodney King compensation imo. I dont see this as being worth more

than $100K at the absolute max, and probably a lit less. But then I'm

a Brit & here you can be left tetrapelgeic and get as little as £50K.

P.

[Guest guest]

I hope he ... gets sued for several million dollars and loses.

This last bit I dont agree with. Two of these woman are claiming $15M

each. The others probably are too. The guy deserves metaphorically

getting his ass nailed criminally, but who is going to pay this

figure? Taxpayers of course. What these women went through is

dreadful and they desewrve compensation, but not this much. This is

Rodney King compensation imo. I dont see this as being worth more

than $100K at the absolute max, and probably a lit less. But then I'm

a Brit & here you can be left tetrapelgeic and get as little as £50K.

P.

[Guest guest]

I hope he ... gets sued for several million dollars and loses.

This last bit I dont agree with. Two of these woman are claiming $15M

each. The others probably are too. The guy deserves metaphorically

getting his ass nailed criminally, but who is going to pay this

figure? Taxpayers of course. What these women went through is

dreadful and they desewrve compensation, but not this much. This is

Rodney King compensation imo. I dont see this as being worth more

than $100K at the absolute max, and probably a lit less. But then I'm

a Brit & here you can be left tetrapelgeic and get as little as £50K.

P.

[Guest guest]

they wont get that much. they are asking for more , because they

know what ever they are awarded will probably be reduced upon

appeal.

and of course tax payers will have to pay it out, but in the end, that

is good, because the outrage it will cause will make them

demand change in an institution which would allow people like

this officer to advance that far.

abuse of power is universal, and part of human nature (some

humans at least) so it isn't going away, which only means we

must expect those institutions to always be vigilant against it.

> I hope he ... gets sued for several million dollars and loses.

>

> This last bit I dont agree with. Two of these woman are

claiming $15M

> each. The others probably are too. The guy deserves

metaphorically

> getting his ass nailed criminally, but who is going to pay this

> figure? Taxpayers of course. What these women went through

is

> dreadful and they desewrve compensation, but not this much.

This is

> Rodney King compensation imo. I dont see this as being

worth more

> than $100K at the absolute max, and probably a lit less. But

then I'm

> a Brit & here you can be left tetrapelgeic and get as little as

£50K.

>

> P.

[Guest guest]

they wont get that much. they are asking for more , because they

know what ever they are awarded will probably be reduced upon

appeal.

and of course tax payers will have to pay it out, but in the end, that

is good, because the outrage it will cause will make them

demand change in an institution which would allow people like

this officer to advance that far.

abuse of power is universal, and part of human nature (some

humans at least) so it isn't going away, which only means we

must expect those institutions to always be vigilant against it.

> I hope he ... gets sued for several million dollars and loses.

>

> This last bit I dont agree with. Two of these woman are

claiming $15M

> each. The others probably are too. The guy deserves

metaphorically

> getting his ass nailed criminally, but who is going to pay this

> figure? Taxpayers of course. What these women went through

is

> dreadful and they desewrve compensation, but not this much.

This is

> Rodney King compensation imo. I dont see this as being

worth more

> than $100K at the absolute max, and probably a lit less. But

then I'm

> a Brit & here you can be left tetrapelgeic and get as little as

£50K.

>

> P.

[Guest guest]

they wont get that much. they are asking for more , because they

know what ever they are awarded will probably be reduced upon

appeal.

and of course tax payers will have to pay it out, but in the end, that

is good, because the outrage it will cause will make them

demand change in an institution which would allow people like

this officer to advance that far.

abuse of power is universal, and part of human nature (some

humans at least) so it isn't going away, which only means we

must expect those institutions to always be vigilant against it.

> I hope he ... gets sued for several million dollars and loses.

>

> This last bit I dont agree with. Two of these woman are

claiming $15M

> each. The others probably are too. The guy deserves

metaphorically

> getting his ass nailed criminally, but who is going to pay this

> figure? Taxpayers of course. What these women went through

is

> dreadful and they desewrve compensation, but not this much.

This is

> Rodney King compensation imo. I dont see this as being

worth more

> than $100K at the absolute max, and probably a lit less. But

then I'm

> a Brit & here you can be left tetrapelgeic and get as little as

£50K.

>

> P.

[Guest guest]

> I hope he ... gets sued for several million dollars and loses.

>

> This last bit I dont agree with. Two of these woman are claiming

$15M

> each. The others probably are too. The guy deserves metaphorically

> getting his ass nailed criminally, but who is going to pay this

> figure? Taxpayers of course. What these women went through is

> dreadful and they desewrve compensation, but not this much. This is

> Rodney King compensation imo. I dont see this as being worth more

> than $100K at the absolute max, and probably a lit less. But then

I'm

> a Brit & here you can be left tetrapelgeic and get as little as

£50K.

>

> P.

I can see how it would look bad. But maybe taxpayers need to get

goosed a little, in order to care about the behavior of the public

servants whose salary they pay. Someone mentioned Abner Luima, the

Haitian immigrant who was assaulted. The cop who raped hime with a

broom handle got a stiff jail sentence. I think it's because sexual

crimes are viewed as worse than other violence in this country.

That, incidentally, is not my view. I think violence is violence;

sexual violence is not worse than non-sexual violence. Several

homeless mentally ill people have been shot by police this year in

Minnesota and that bothers me a lot, too. However, Minneapolis police

are getting special training in dealing with mentally ill people,

which hopefully will reduce the rate of justifiable (that is,

committed by a police officer) homicide among the homeless.

judith

[Guest guest]

> I hope he ... gets sued for several million dollars and loses.

>

> This last bit I dont agree with. Two of these woman are claiming

$15M

> each. The others probably are too. The guy deserves metaphorically

> getting his ass nailed criminally, but who is going to pay this

> figure? Taxpayers of course. What these women went through is

> dreadful and they desewrve compensation, but not this much. This is

> Rodney King compensation imo. I dont see this as being worth more

> than $100K at the absolute max, and probably a lit less. But then

I'm

> a Brit & here you can be left tetrapelgeic and get as little as

£50K.

>

> P.

I can see how it would look bad. But maybe taxpayers need to get

goosed a little, in order to care about the behavior of the public

servants whose salary they pay. Someone mentioned Abner Luima, the

Haitian immigrant who was assaulted. The cop who raped hime with a

broom handle got a stiff jail sentence. I think it's because sexual

crimes are viewed as worse than other violence in this country.

That, incidentally, is not my view. I think violence is violence;

sexual violence is not worse than non-sexual violence. Several

homeless mentally ill people have been shot by police this year in

Minnesota and that bothers me a lot, too. However, Minneapolis police

are getting special training in dealing with mentally ill people,

which hopefully will reduce the rate of justifiable (that is,

committed by a police officer) homicide among the homeless.

judith

[Guest guest]

> I hope he ... gets sued for several million dollars and loses.

>

> This last bit I dont agree with. Two of these woman are claiming

$15M

> each. The others probably are too. The guy deserves metaphorically

> getting his ass nailed criminally, but who is going to pay this

> figure? Taxpayers of course. What these women went through is

> dreadful and they desewrve compensation, but not this much. This is

> Rodney King compensation imo. I dont see this as being worth more

> than $100K at the absolute max, and probably a lit less. But then

I'm

> a Brit & here you can be left tetrapelgeic and get as little as

£50K.

>

> P.

I can see how it would look bad. But maybe taxpayers need to get

goosed a little, in order to care about the behavior of the public

servants whose salary they pay. Someone mentioned Abner Luima, the

Haitian immigrant who was assaulted. The cop who raped hime with a

broom handle got a stiff jail sentence. I think it's because sexual

crimes are viewed as worse than other violence in this country.

That, incidentally, is not my view. I think violence is violence;

sexual violence is not worse than non-sexual violence. Several

homeless mentally ill people have been shot by police this year in

Minnesota and that bothers me a lot, too. However, Minneapolis police

are getting special training in dealing with mentally ill people,

which hopefully will reduce the rate of justifiable (that is,

committed by a police officer) homicide among the homeless.

judith

[Guest guest]

Pete thank you for your insight.

In my own story (which is in 's book), I was on the verge of

being raped by my AA " friend " and was rescued by a second guy who

arrived at the scene and beat up the first one with a baseball bat,

" saving my life " . I got into his car (there was literally nowhere that

I could go), and I remember talking to him and inviting him to a party.

I knew that this guy was sleazy, because he had hit on me a few weeks

before, and given me the creeps.

I see that invitation like this: Let's say you're enjoying a nice

juicy steak, and a hungry dog whom you know does bite, is snarling at

you. You give it a scrap so he won't take the steak.

The promise to go to a party, since it was at a future time, was one

that I could always back down on... I thought that " scrap " would be

enough for him, but apparently it wasn't.

Apple

> Somethinh that interests me is whether any of these women have

> suffered sexual abuse or domestic violence previously. One thing that

> ppl often dont realize is that abused ppl often co-operate with

> abusers to amazing extents out of sheer terror. Unfortunately I can

> be one of them, and I'm very, very glad I'm a large male and less

> likely to be sexually assaulted than other ppl, such as women.

>

> This level of co-operation seems crazy to those who dont understand it

> and even looks like collaberation in the abuse, which produces more

> shit for the victim in the response it gets from others. It isnt

> collaboration, it is simply the effect of sheer helplessness.

>

> When a child is abused compliance is a meatter of sheer survival and

> it can sometimes have the same protective effect for an adult. I

> aremember seeing a film about a serial killer who abducted a teen

> girl and drive around with her for days before finally releasing her.

> She made no attempt to escape, even agreeing to go with him in to a

> restaurant - as well as fearing he would shoot her, he told her he

> would shoot other ppl if she escaped while out of his sight. He even

> got her to drive a car with him tailing; she told her that as a

> former racing driver there was no way she could get away from him,

> which was probably true as he had been a racing driver, but many

> would have tried anyway. He eventually did release her and she

> survived, unlike the other girl who he killed while holding her

> captive.

>

> The reason she survived becasue this guy's bag was to have the girl

> beg for mercy before killing her. She had already been raped

> previously, and had learned that pleas for mercy were useless or

> counter-productive, and instead remained passive. Since he didnt get

> his fix he let her live and she survived. So the apparently " crazy "

> compliance of a victim may actually be lifesaving.

>

> P.

[Guest guest]

Pete thank you for your insight.

In my own story (which is in 's book), I was on the verge of

being raped by my AA " friend " and was rescued by a second guy who

arrived at the scene and beat up the first one with a baseball bat,

" saving my life " . I got into his car (there was literally nowhere that

I could go), and I remember talking to him and inviting him to a party.

I knew that this guy was sleazy, because he had hit on me a few weeks

before, and given me the creeps.

I see that invitation like this: Let's say you're enjoying a nice

juicy steak, and a hungry dog whom you know does bite, is snarling at

you. You give it a scrap so he won't take the steak.

The promise to go to a party, since it was at a future time, was one

that I could always back down on... I thought that " scrap " would be

enough for him, but apparently it wasn't.

Apple

> Somethinh that interests me is whether any of these women have

> suffered sexual abuse or domestic violence previously. One thing that

> ppl often dont realize is that abused ppl often co-operate with

> abusers to amazing extents out of sheer terror. Unfortunately I can

> be one of them, and I'm very, very glad I'm a large male and less

> likely to be sexually assaulted than other ppl, such as women.

>

> This level of co-operation seems crazy to those who dont understand it

> and even looks like collaberation in the abuse, which produces more

> shit for the victim in the response it gets from others. It isnt

> collaboration, it is simply the effect of sheer helplessness.

>

> When a child is abused compliance is a meatter of sheer survival and

> it can sometimes have the same protective effect for an adult. I

> aremember seeing a film about a serial killer who abducted a teen

> girl and drive around with her for days before finally releasing her.

> She made no attempt to escape, even agreeing to go with him in to a

> restaurant - as well as fearing he would shoot her, he told her he

> would shoot other ppl if she escaped while out of his sight. He even

> got her to drive a car with him tailing; she told her that as a

> former racing driver there was no way she could get away from him,

> which was probably true as he had been a racing driver, but many

> would have tried anyway. He eventually did release her and she

> survived, unlike the other girl who he killed while holding her

> captive.

>

> The reason she survived becasue this guy's bag was to have the girl

> beg for mercy before killing her. She had already been raped

> previously, and had learned that pleas for mercy were useless or

> counter-productive, and instead remained passive. Since he didnt get

> his fix he let her live and she survived. So the apparently " crazy "

> compliance of a victim may actually be lifesaving.

>

> P.