Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 iwonder, since alanon was founded by bill's wife, if the ever talk about fact her sober husband still decieved her about being able to channel spirits and that he cheated on her their entire marriage, right up to his death when he had his mistresses in his will. I read the recent biography of Bill by I don't remember who(If anybody wants I have it somewhere) Conference organizers used to establish a "Founder's Watch" to keep an eye on Bill if he started spending too much time with a young female AA. If so they'd step in to divert his attention to something else. 's biographer knew Lois pretty well. According to him she never knew about the affairs. I believe she never admitted to knowing, playing dumb the whole time, but she knew..... Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 iwonder, since alanon was founded by bill's wife, if the ever talk about fact her sober husband still decieved her about being able to channel spirits and that he cheated on her their entire marriage, right up to his death when he had his mistresses in his will. I read the recent biography of Bill by I don't remember who(If anybody wants I have it somewhere) Conference organizers used to establish a "Founder's Watch" to keep an eye on Bill if he started spending too much time with a young female AA. If so they'd step in to divert his attention to something else. 's biographer knew Lois pretty well. According to him she never knew about the affairs. I believe she never admitted to knowing, playing dumb the whole time, but she knew..... Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 At 04:32 PM 1/6/01 +0000, you wrote: >This also explains another problem. If co-addicts hacve a >kind of " mirror image " of addiction where they tend to let themselves >get exploited or abused by addicts, dont they need a " mirror image " >program which isnt about listing your defects and making amends but >about celebrating your strengths and virtues, standing up for oneself >and seeking justice for past offences against oneself? Interestingly, this mirror image is the sort of thing which legitimate counseling usually recommends. Real mental health is almost exactly the opposite of the problems which are exploited and magnified by cult involvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 At 04:32 PM 1/6/01 +0000, you wrote: >This also explains another problem. If co-addicts hacve a >kind of " mirror image " of addiction where they tend to let themselves >get exploited or abused by addicts, dont they need a " mirror image " >program which isnt about listing your defects and making amends but >about celebrating your strengths and virtues, standing up for oneself >and seeking justice for past offences against oneself? Interestingly, this mirror image is the sort of thing which legitimate counseling usually recommends. Real mental health is almost exactly the opposite of the problems which are exploited and magnified by cult involvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2001 Report Share Posted January 6, 2001 At 04:32 PM 1/6/01 +0000, you wrote: >This also explains another problem. If co-addicts hacve a >kind of " mirror image " of addiction where they tend to let themselves >get exploited or abused by addicts, dont they need a " mirror image " >program which isnt about listing your defects and making amends but >about celebrating your strengths and virtues, standing up for oneself >and seeking justice for past offences against oneself? Interestingly, this mirror image is the sort of thing which legitimate counseling usually recommends. Real mental health is almost exactly the opposite of the problems which are exploited and magnified by cult involvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 I have found the comments on al anon quite intresting, but in my experience with friends that have gone to al anon I found that they are just justifying the family being the victim and not really encouraging that there are any changes made in the family home. I was for one was bought up in a home where drinking and alcoholism were running rampant. After the death of my parents at a very young age I went to live with relatives, my uncle a cronic alcoholic, and my aunty a hypocondriac that went to church on a daily basis to absolve her sins. (don't get me wrong I love these people very much) My uncle was a closet drinker, and my aunt would send us out to spy on him in the garage so that she could find his grog and hide it from him, it was quite funny really, she would hide it, he would find it again, but neither would admit this to the other, therefore it never happened. Needless to say I left home at 17 and walked into an addict alcoholic relationship. But I have to be honest I am lucky because the one thing that I learn't from these experiences was that I did not want to/have to accept this lifestyle. Now I am in another relationship, alcohol is no longer a problem for me, as neither are drugs. I simply grew up and realised that I was better then that and I wanted more from life. I have persobnally attended AA, and was told don't hang on to resentments, Then one day I heard a lady share about her experiences, and her husband. He was having affairs and drugging her while he left the house, but because she was an " Alcoholic " and therefore he was able to justify she was responsible for his behaviour, and she cried and said " when will he stand accountabile for what he did " . This is something that hit home with me as I had similar experiences, I have taken full responsibility for my actions, and it had nothing to do with handing it over to god or anyone else. I own my life and my experiences, therefore making me responsible for my actions in any state that I may be in, and this is what craps me off the most with these programms. They are allowing people to remain victims, or to remain bullies simply because they have a " disease " , this may be true, but they also have choices. hope I haven't bored you too much catch ya later Jules Re: Alanon > > > > > > It is really and truly amazing that so many people seem to believe > > the " family disease " baloney. I suppose the real reason is that it > > is very difficult to be a firm believer in a religion (such as > > steppism) if your spouse is not a believer. Marriages in which > > the spouse doesn't convert would probably be more likely to > > break up as the stepper got more deeply entangled with > > the group. > > What a great point . In reality Lois was the other > co-founder of AA and was very heavily involved within it initially. > However, as the Traditions got going and non-alcoholics got squeezed > out this thing that was getting bigger and bigger to Bill was getting > smaller and smaller to her, so founding AL-Anon filled the gap. > Tellingly perhaps, it was a row about Bill's heavy involvement with AA > meetings that led to Lois's decision that she too needed a program and > her founding of Al-Anon which gave her something to do and a new > co-founder status to compensate for her de facto loss of the AA one. > It is also noteworthy that the trigger was her throwing a show at Bill > with " This to your meetings " . This apparently serious act of domestic > violence made her decide that she too had a problem with anger > shutting out the sunlight of the spirit and hence also needed the > program. This also explains another problem. If co-addicts hacve a > kind of " mirror image " of addiction where they tend to let themselves > get exploited or abused by addicts, dont they need a " mirror image " > program which isnt about listing your defects and making amends but > about celebrating your strengths and virtues, standing up for oneself > and seeking justice for past offences against oneself? Yet the > Al-anon program is essentially identical to AA; even the phrase > " powerless over alcohol " isnt changed in Step 1. > > P. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 I have found the comments on al anon quite intresting, but in my experience with friends that have gone to al anon I found that they are just justifying the family being the victim and not really encouraging that there are any changes made in the family home. I was for one was bought up in a home where drinking and alcoholism were running rampant. After the death of my parents at a very young age I went to live with relatives, my uncle a cronic alcoholic, and my aunty a hypocondriac that went to church on a daily basis to absolve her sins. (don't get me wrong I love these people very much) My uncle was a closet drinker, and my aunt would send us out to spy on him in the garage so that she could find his grog and hide it from him, it was quite funny really, she would hide it, he would find it again, but neither would admit this to the other, therefore it never happened. Needless to say I left home at 17 and walked into an addict alcoholic relationship. But I have to be honest I am lucky because the one thing that I learn't from these experiences was that I did not want to/have to accept this lifestyle. Now I am in another relationship, alcohol is no longer a problem for me, as neither are drugs. I simply grew up and realised that I was better then that and I wanted more from life. I have persobnally attended AA, and was told don't hang on to resentments, Then one day I heard a lady share about her experiences, and her husband. He was having affairs and drugging her while he left the house, but because she was an " Alcoholic " and therefore he was able to justify she was responsible for his behaviour, and she cried and said " when will he stand accountabile for what he did " . This is something that hit home with me as I had similar experiences, I have taken full responsibility for my actions, and it had nothing to do with handing it over to god or anyone else. I own my life and my experiences, therefore making me responsible for my actions in any state that I may be in, and this is what craps me off the most with these programms. They are allowing people to remain victims, or to remain bullies simply because they have a " disease " , this may be true, but they also have choices. hope I haven't bored you too much catch ya later Jules Re: Alanon > > > > > > It is really and truly amazing that so many people seem to believe > > the " family disease " baloney. I suppose the real reason is that it > > is very difficult to be a firm believer in a religion (such as > > steppism) if your spouse is not a believer. Marriages in which > > the spouse doesn't convert would probably be more likely to > > break up as the stepper got more deeply entangled with > > the group. > > What a great point . In reality Lois was the other > co-founder of AA and was very heavily involved within it initially. > However, as the Traditions got going and non-alcoholics got squeezed > out this thing that was getting bigger and bigger to Bill was getting > smaller and smaller to her, so founding AL-Anon filled the gap. > Tellingly perhaps, it was a row about Bill's heavy involvement with AA > meetings that led to Lois's decision that she too needed a program and > her founding of Al-Anon which gave her something to do and a new > co-founder status to compensate for her de facto loss of the AA one. > It is also noteworthy that the trigger was her throwing a show at Bill > with " This to your meetings " . This apparently serious act of domestic > violence made her decide that she too had a problem with anger > shutting out the sunlight of the spirit and hence also needed the > program. This also explains another problem. If co-addicts hacve a > kind of " mirror image " of addiction where they tend to let themselves > get exploited or abused by addicts, dont they need a " mirror image " > program which isnt about listing your defects and making amends but > about celebrating your strengths and virtues, standing up for oneself > and seeking justice for past offences against oneself? Yet the > Al-anon program is essentially identical to AA; even the phrase > " powerless over alcohol " isnt changed in Step 1. > > P. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2001 Report Share Posted January 7, 2001 I have found the comments on al anon quite intresting, but in my experience with friends that have gone to al anon I found that they are just justifying the family being the victim and not really encouraging that there are any changes made in the family home. I was for one was bought up in a home where drinking and alcoholism were running rampant. After the death of my parents at a very young age I went to live with relatives, my uncle a cronic alcoholic, and my aunty a hypocondriac that went to church on a daily basis to absolve her sins. (don't get me wrong I love these people very much) My uncle was a closet drinker, and my aunt would send us out to spy on him in the garage so that she could find his grog and hide it from him, it was quite funny really, she would hide it, he would find it again, but neither would admit this to the other, therefore it never happened. Needless to say I left home at 17 and walked into an addict alcoholic relationship. But I have to be honest I am lucky because the one thing that I learn't from these experiences was that I did not want to/have to accept this lifestyle. Now I am in another relationship, alcohol is no longer a problem for me, as neither are drugs. I simply grew up and realised that I was better then that and I wanted more from life. I have persobnally attended AA, and was told don't hang on to resentments, Then one day I heard a lady share about her experiences, and her husband. He was having affairs and drugging her while he left the house, but because she was an " Alcoholic " and therefore he was able to justify she was responsible for his behaviour, and she cried and said " when will he stand accountabile for what he did " . This is something that hit home with me as I had similar experiences, I have taken full responsibility for my actions, and it had nothing to do with handing it over to god or anyone else. I own my life and my experiences, therefore making me responsible for my actions in any state that I may be in, and this is what craps me off the most with these programms. They are allowing people to remain victims, or to remain bullies simply because they have a " disease " , this may be true, but they also have choices. hope I haven't bored you too much catch ya later Jules Re: Alanon > > > > > > It is really and truly amazing that so many people seem to believe > > the " family disease " baloney. I suppose the real reason is that it > > is very difficult to be a firm believer in a religion (such as > > steppism) if your spouse is not a believer. Marriages in which > > the spouse doesn't convert would probably be more likely to > > break up as the stepper got more deeply entangled with > > the group. > > What a great point . In reality Lois was the other > co-founder of AA and was very heavily involved within it initially. > However, as the Traditions got going and non-alcoholics got squeezed > out this thing that was getting bigger and bigger to Bill was getting > smaller and smaller to her, so founding AL-Anon filled the gap. > Tellingly perhaps, it was a row about Bill's heavy involvement with AA > meetings that led to Lois's decision that she too needed a program and > her founding of Al-Anon which gave her something to do and a new > co-founder status to compensate for her de facto loss of the AA one. > It is also noteworthy that the trigger was her throwing a show at Bill > with " This to your meetings " . This apparently serious act of domestic > violence made her decide that she too had a problem with anger > shutting out the sunlight of the spirit and hence also needed the > program. This also explains another problem. If co-addicts hacve a > kind of " mirror image " of addiction where they tend to let themselves > get exploited or abused by addicts, dont they need a " mirror image " > program which isnt about listing your defects and making amends but > about celebrating your strengths and virtues, standing up for oneself > and seeking justice for past offences against oneself? Yet the > Al-anon program is essentially identical to AA; even the phrase > " powerless over alcohol " isnt changed in Step 1. > > P. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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